I have to agree with grichter. You don't just go out and hire a new CEO on a whim or based on early results of a new product launch (no one at Coca Cola lost their jobs over 'New Coke'). I would think that this is even more the case if you go outside the company. Whether you do the search yourself or hire an executive search firm, the process is lengthy and the decision to do so was likely made quite some time ago.

Yup. It takes a lot of work to find someone that can insure your company can continue growing and thriving. It takes a lot of work to find someone who shares the same ideals that you do in running the beastie. 

While I've never had the job description of doing so, I have had to supply the technical grilling for executives before (Head of IT, CTO/CIO positions, etc). It requires a lot more than just knowing the technical bits of the company (which is why someone as junior as myself on such food chains did the grilling). Politics, ideology, the ability to juggle budgets and profits, setting and making strategic goals... all of these figure far larger than just being able to make Vickie bend better.

I've known Dan and Chris personally for ages. They truly love what they do. As late as 2006, Chris still preferred his ancient (even by 2006 standards) SGI Irix workstation to make mesh with. These guys love mesh, love art, and really enjoyed their job. OTOH, once a company reaches a certain size or age, it's time to bring in someone who can push it to even greater heights, and in new directions. It also means stepping back and letting the company grow on its own, only keeping enough control to step in and take over if anything goes wrong. 

Me, if I started a company and became a zillionaire from it, I'd step back and see what someone else can do with it too. That way I could still enjoy the thing I founded it on without risking burnout or having the thing I loved turn into the thing I'd end up disgusted with. 

Vicki has had her share of joint problems, believe me!  There were even 3rd party fixes for Vicki 4 because it took Daz so long to address the situation.

I do believe in 3rd party figures,  I love Apollo and I think Antonia has great potential--but if people don't support these other figures (Apollo is pretty much dead now) we'll never have any decent alternatives.

Quote - ...or having the thing I loved turn into the thing I'd end up disgusted with. 

:scared:

 "...or having the thing I loved turn into the thing I'd end up disgusted with. "

At which point, you take the golf club and chase them with it :-) 

Quote -  Chris still preferred his ancient (even by 2006 standards) SGI Irix workstation to make mesh with. 

Can't say as I would blame him for that. We had a couple SGI's at my former employers and those things pretty much blew the PC's and Macs out of the water for graphics power.

"I love Apollo and I think Antonia has great potential--but if people don't support these other figures (Apollo is pretty much dead now) we'll never have any decent alternatives."

Hi Looking at the current state of things I am of the opinion that "Antonia" will never become the primary /Default female for poser.

If S.M. swallows their pride and continues to work with D.A.Z.on a Fully functional genesis in poser Solution ( as D.A.Z. reports),
Then "Antonia" Will be Crushed in the stampede  by poser users rushing to get caught up on Genesis/V-chick .

If a Full res genesis in poser never happens
Most will likely Stay with V4 with her vast collection of legacy content  weight mapped or not

D.A.Z marketing is clearly geared to Expanding the customer base.
Even the most Loyal Dazites become jaded and Slow down their purchasing  and now that they have the auto fit option they will be purchasing each item only one time and fitting it to all the various genesis platform figures.
So the content supply chain has to be supported by
NEW customers.

If you are a newbie looking to get into  the "Digital art Character scene" and you happen upon the D.A.Z site you are bombarded with really nice finished eye candy Illustrations and comic art ,3D renders of genesis/Vchick and a link to a FREE copy of DS4 .

If you are a newbie who happens upon the SM site
you are presented with Alyson& Ryan and alot of  tech blather about terms you may not be familiar with
Like SSS , Weight mapping, and IDL etc..
and the lowest cost option to get started does not even have all these features anyway("poser Debut")
This IMO may send most newbies over to D.A.Z before they even have a chance to get initiated into the Alternative  poser figure "subculture" where "Antonia" resides and will likely remain.

Cheers  

If those new customers find out they have to sell their house to be able to use all those nice looking figures and outfits with their new "free" program, they will either leave or find something else which is a lot cheaper and might end up with Poser and Antonia

But who knows - this is all pure speculation.

Free Kittens

thats all.. Free Kittens...

"If those new customers find out they have to sell their house to be able to use all those nice looking figures and outfits.."
Indeed the really high quality content is not free nor should it be.
However the one thing that truly matters to the newbie not ready to "sell his house "
is FREE from D.A.Z: Genesis( High quality figure) and a FREE program in which to render it even its just nudie pics for starters.

Sadly one has to actuallly spend money just to learn for themselves how poor quality the default poser figures are and a weightmapped "Antonia" is only relevant to people who are willing to buy poser 9/pro2012  not much incentives for the much needed new customers to grow your market share IMHO.

Cheers

Well at least Miki has gained some wide level of acceptance; she has more 3rd party support for stuff than any of the other "odd" figures out there.  I really remains to be see with Antonia, I'm suspending my judgement.  If she becomes as popular and with as much support as Miki (and there is a lot of Miki content out there if you look for it) I'd consider her to be a resounding sucess.  Apollo really started out well--I'd say it was more due to problems that the creator had with various 3D entities that his success was not ongoing.

If everyone just gives in and says that they can't live without Daz content, not only will new figures not get off the ground, but there will be far fewer choices.  Lets face it, people get tired of using the same model (no matter how versativle), and wants new stuff to play with.

Quote - "If those new customers find out they have to sell their house to be able to use all those nice looking figures and outfits.."
Indeed the really high quality content is not free nor should it be.
However the one thing that truly matters to the newbie not ready to "sell his house "
is FREE from D.A.Z: Genesis( High quality figure) and a FREE program in which to render it even its just nudie pics for starters.

Sadly one has to actuallly spend money just to learn for themselves how poor quality the default poser figures are and a weightmapped "Antonia" is only relevant to people who are willing to buy poser 9/pro2012  not much incentives for the much needed new customers to grow your market share IMHO.

Cheers

Do I REALLY need to spell this out?

To create this nice new picture I see on the front page I need to purchase V5, the morph set, the character morph and texture, the hair, the clothing, the poses and the expressions. All together probably just as much or more as P9

Same for Antonia for some parts, but some of it is for free

And I do not think that everything should be free - I just think that the free part of Studio is just irrelevant given all the money - or time - you need to spend before getting anything decent out of it

There is a lot of quality free content out there that was provided by very generaous people and in general the cost of 3D models is significantly cheaper than when I started in this hobby.

There really is no free lunch; as wimvdb pointed out--even with a free version of DS people are going to have to buy content and a lot of it if they want to do anything with it.  Actually I think Daz would be stupid not to have a free version of DS always available; if people really want to do anything they need to buy content and having the free software to run it on gets people sucked in.  Daz at least makes that clear in their little "Dan Makes A Halloween Picture" movie--they say Dan had to buy this, then that, then something else from the Daz Store.

All the flavors of Poser have tons of free content--it may not be content that people like or want all the time, but at least they have a good variety of toons, people, animals, rooms, building and other things.  If one added up the cost of that content it would be significantly higher than the cost of any of the 3 softwares.  A newbie who blew their budget buying any version of Poser can create pitures for  moneys with the included content and not having to spend another dime.  I think that if SM were smart they'd make Poser Debut free and then promote Content Paradise better.

"I just think that the free part of Studio is just irrelevant given all the money - or time - you need to spend before getting anything decent out of it"

Well "decent" is a relative term
and Free is always relevant to get new customers "in the Door" so to speak
once inside they will decide how much "paid extras they wan to buy based on their consumer Discipline and your marketing prowess
Clearly DAZ has mastered the "marketing prowess" part

The regular  year round price of poser 9 will require  $250. before you can even install "Antonia" or whomever and start scrounging& waiting for some decent content with variety.
and that "3 GIGS" of poser content is not for "Antonia" and one look at Alyson & Ryan and IMHO any new customer wont care about the 3 GIGs of Content or SSS or IDL etc.

Cheers

Quote - "I just think that the free part of Studio is just irrelevant given all the money - or time - you need to spend before getting anything decent out of it"

Well "decent" is a relative term
and Free is always relevant to get new customers "in the Door" so to speak
once inside they will decide how much "paid extras they wan to buy based on their consumer Discipline and your marketing prowess
Clearly DAZ has mastered the "marketing prowess" part

The regular  year round price of poser 9 will require  $250. before you can even install "Antonia" or whomever and start scrounging& waiting for some decent content with variety.
and that "3 GIGS" of poser content is not for "Antonia" and one look at Alyson & Ryan and IMHO any new customer wont care about the 3 GIGs of Content or SSS or IDL etc.

Cheers

I've been playing more with the Poser figures lately, and find several truths.  The first is, and I don't try to do nudes, that I'm clothing them, with dynamic cloth.  What the figure looks like under the cloth becomes irrelevant.  If I don't like the face, there's the face room.  Dynamic hair, I don't use much, but there have been times.  POser pro 2012 if anyone's interested in which version, which really doesn't matter that much here.  IDL, not something to snark at, it didn't take me too long to figure out that can make one tremendous difference in a render, especially considering I normally use only one point light source.  SSS, sometimes, and sometimes not.  It's there, it works, it can make a difference in some renders. 

Then there's an interface I can get along with, and it doesn't change that much from version to version, I'm pretty comfortable with it. 

But I think if there were any external factors in the change of heads, I would hope that one of them would be the DS interface has not been the same on any two consecutive releases, or, confusion reign supreme.  There are some features of the Genesis that could be interesting, but after playing with it for a little, the shortcomings become evident. 

No, Poser isn't free, but it is well supported, and most of what in DS is an additional module is included in the base Poser.  Dress the figures, work on the faces, most arguments against them disappear.  If the new head of DAZ changes that to make it more of an integrated program, DS has a chance of becoming a viable project.  As it is, sorry, it isn't yet.

**"The first is, and I don't try to do nudes, that I'm clothing them, with dynamic cloth.  What the figure looks like under the cloth becomes irrelevant. **"

A a person who does not do naked boobie chick renders 
I certainly Agree!!!!

I could NOT care less about knees& elbows
But try telling that to the the combatants in the: Weightmap,JCM, tri axis ,Catmull clark SubD,Debate, that became so heated  a few pages back.
somehow this subject always manages to dominate any debate about the relative qualityor the reccomended direction of the various figures.

"Dress the figures, work on the faces, most arguments against them disappear."

But where is  all the third party vendor interest in Alyson & Ryan
( Dressed up & Face roomed)??

Cheers

Quote -  

Do I REALLY need to spell this out?

To create this nice new picture I see on the front page I need to purchase V5, the morph set, the character morph and texture, the hair, the clothing, the poses and the expressions. All together probably just as much or more as P9

Antonia and Vicky have the same pricing plan: Get the base figure for nada, and buy morph packages for it.  That alone blows off your entire argument, making it an even go.

The argument gets even more crazy when you compare:

• D|S Base for $0.00

• Poser 9 for $249.99 USD (may be more or less depending on country, retailer, etc).

Now forget feature comparisons and all that crap for a moment. Imagine a newbie, just barely wondering if it's worth his or her while in time, money, to even bother with this hobby. Which option do you think that he (or she) will go for first? 

I'm thinking that trying things out for free is a whole lot cheaper than trying things out for $250 USD.

Quote - > Quote -  

Do I REALLY need to spell this out?

To create this nice new picture I see on the front page I need to purchase V5, the morph set, the character morph and texture, the hair, the clothing, the poses and the expressions. All together probably just as much or more as P9

 

Antonia and Vicky have the same pricing plan: Get the base figure for nada, and buy morph packages for it.  That alone blows off your entire argument, making it an even go.

The argument gets even more crazy when you compare:

• D|S Base for $0.00

• Poser 9 for $249.99 USD (may be more or less depending on country, retailer, etc).

Now forget feature comparisons and all that crap for a moment. Imagine a newbie, just barely wondering if it's worth his or her while in time, money, to even bother with this hobby. Which option do you think that he (or she) will go for first? 

I'm thinking that trying things out for free is a whole lot cheaper than trying things out for $250 USD.

You need to learn to read

My current investment in Antonia is 12$ for the morphs and 5$ for the CrossDresser plugin. The only thing that is missing before having a fully operational figure is some way of reusing the texture libraries. I don't think that 17$ to reach this point are bad.

Dear Penguinisto, if your analysis is correct, DAZ investors are experiecing painful boners. Why do you want to "deflate" their pleasure? In business, nothing is better than your main competitor self destructing.

Bye.

P.S.: XD4 is blazing fast, less than 10 seconds per item.

The new boss knows about scrapbooking and infomercials.  Google Provo Crafts and Circut.  You may have seen their cute little infomercials if you're an insomniac.

"My current investment in Antonia is 12$ for the morphs and 5$ for the CrossDresser plugin. The only thing that is missing before having a fully operational figure is some way of reusing the texture libraries. I don't think that 17$ to reach this point are bad."

How much did you pay for the program in which you are using Antonia??

very relevant to any potential new customers.

Cheers

it's turned into another one of these destructive daz vs. poser threads.  IMVHO very sad how they keep posting them here.  my suggestion would be to move these daz threads to the daz forum.

Poser Debut is like Poser 4 used to be, comes with content, and I've seen it for as little as $15.  In fact, Smith Micro has offered it for free for people who buy sometime from one of their "partners".   For a newbie I think it would be enough for them to get their feet wet--it does not necessarily have to take a big investment.  Sometimes too, older versions of Poser are avaialbe very inexpensively. 

The base Mike and Vicki is also enough for people to try things--as they come with facial expressions, one just has to use their default bodies.

I think there is enough room for DS and Poser, but we all have our favorites and does little good to debate which is better because it is highly subjective.

Quote -
You need to learn to read

...and you m'dear need to point out where the analysis is wrong.

Seriously - the point still stands. If you think I missed something, then kindly point it out.

==

Quote - My current investment in Antonia is 12$ for the morphs and 5$ for the CrossDresser plugin. The only thing that is missing before having a fully operational figure is some way of reusing the texture libraries. I don't think that 17$ to reach this point are bad.

So let's see... 

$40 for D|S and the Vicky 5 morph kit.

...compared to...

$262 for Poser 9 and the Antonia morph kit.

(That's a whole lot of dosh just to feel all smug, innit?) 

Now - let's go back to that rank newbie's POV. How eager do you think he or she will be to splurge on the Poser option?

Let's assume for a moment (I know, I know) that the newbie doesn't spend his mornings shouting curses in the direction of Utah, or carries his own personal pin-filled Dan Farr looking Vudu Doll under his pillow. Think about this... which one is the least risky option here, money-wise? 

Now I don't know about you, but I for one refuse to shell out half the price of a new iPad just to test the waters in a new hobby that I'd never tried before, especially if there's a cheaper way to ease into it. Now how about you?

Quote - Poser Debut is like Poser 4 used to be, comes with content, and I've seen it for as little as $15.  In fact, Smith Micro has offered it for free for people who buy sometime from one of their "partners".   For a newbie I think it would be enough for them to get their feet wet--it does not necessarily have to take a big investment.  Sometimes too, older versions of Poser are avaialbe very inexpensively. 

Now this is a solid point. Thank you muchly. :)

That brings the price down to something that is somewhat usable. I am curious as to how compatible it would be with the typical Marketplace fare, but I doubt it would be too much of a problem.

Quote - The new boss knows about scrapbooking and infomercials.  Google Provo Crafts and Circut.  You may have seen their cute little infomercials if you're an insomniac.

Actually, I have seen the name out here in Oregon... damned near every crafts shop carries both.

The scrapbooking is a Utah thing, primarily. The ProvoCraft brand OTOH makes and sells  knitting stuff. Judging by the prices and the sales, they don't do too awful bad. That said, I have no idea of the profit margins or profitability. 

Quote - it's turned into another one of these destructive daz vs. poser threads.  IMVHO very sad how they keep posting them here.

Agreed.  But it could be worse.

I just hope the new DAZ guy doesn't get to work on his first Monday and say "You've been giving DAZ Studio away for FREE?!"

What percentage of Newbies, both Poser and Daz, takes the time to learn the software and then goes on to invest in content???  10%  20% 30%, my guess is 10% or less. If 10% or less is likely, I think I would put my focus on "established long term users".

For me, the Smith Micro figures are not bad at all. I render them clothed and not in extreme poses. I am more interested in faces and expressions. For a long time, I wasn't even aware that they are supposed to bend badly. Their bending has never bothered me. 

If I were a new user now, I would probably opt for Poser again - it comes with several male and female figures, basic clothes and hair for them, lots of props and animals and the face room. And those included figures come with high quality textures. I don't see the point of Poser Debut, but Poser 9 is excellent value considering all the content. But nudie babes don't interest me.

I think if I were getting into 3d now, I would probably download the free Studio, and when I see how much more I would need to spend, I would go back to Poser and consider the value of all the included content. Yes, there is a lot of free stuff for V4, but as a new user I wouldn't be aware of that. It takes time to find it, and to sort the rubbish from the quality stuff.

Quote - I could NOT care less about knees& elbows
But try telling that to the the combatants in the: Weightmap,JCM, tri axis ,Catmull clark SubD,Debate, that became so heated  a few pages back.
somehow this subject always manages to dominate any debate about the relative qualityor the reccomended direction of the various figures.

Knees and elbows don't matter all that much when the figure is just going to be given a purchased pose with purchased clothes and placed with a purchased stage/backdrop and then rendered with purchased lighting and posted in the gallery here for everyone to give their repeated raving comments and 5-star ratings to.

Quote - What percentage of Newbies, both Poser and Daz, takes the time to learn the software and then goes on to invest in content???  10%  20% 30%, my guess is 10% or less. If 10% or less is likely, I think I would put my focus on "established long term users".

This was sort of me back in the P6-V3 days. Popped into Daz and started reading the forums. Found this place, poserPros and 3Dcommune and just read for about 2 weeks. Then I bought P6 and V3 based on the comments I was reading and what the various software could and couldn't do. Granted I am an old software programmer in another life, so hacking files and messing around in Python compared to all the addons and the issues and the version of the day just kept me in P6 thru every version to PoserPro 2012. Might not be your typical newbee back then. But I did read lot forum posts before choosing P6.

Quote - > Quote - My current investment in Antonia is 12$ for the morphs and 5$ for the CrossDresser plugin. The only thing that is missing before having a fully operational figure is some way of reusing the texture libraries. I don't think that 17$ to reach this point are bad.

So let's see... 

$40 for D|S and the Vicky 5 morph kit.

...compared to...

$262 for Poser 9 and the Antonia morph kit.

(That's a whole lot of dosh just to feel all smug, innit?) 

Now - let's go back to that rank newbie's POV. How eager do you think he or she will be to splurge on the Poser option?

Let's assume for a moment (I know, I know) that the newbie doesn't spend his mornings shouting curses in the direction of Utah, or carries his own personal pin-filled Dan Farr looking Vudu Doll under his pillow. Think about this... which one is the least risky option here, money-wise? 

Now I don't know about you, but I for one refuse to shell out half the price of a new iPad just to test the waters in a new hobby that I'd never tried before, especially if there's a cheaper way to ease into it. Now how about you?

There will always be some people who go that way. But others won't. If you read the feature list and add the price for the plugins you need to do what you want, the calculation is different. And, by the way, the figures which are included it Poser are usable as well. With the actual Version you get the G2 figures, Alyson and Ryan, Posette and Dork, James and Jessy, some Toons - with clothes, textures and hair. Yes, they are neither Genesis nor V4, but they are still usable.

So I tend to disagree that Poser is too expensive. Of course, there will be people who start with Studio and stick with it just because the base version is free, but it's not quite as easy as that, at least not for me.

Quote - Judging by the prices and the sales, they don't do too awful bad. That said, I have no idea of the profit margins or profitability.

Quite high I presume.

I done some googling about the new guy in town and he appears to enjoy lawsuits (just google for "Provo Craft" lawsuit); with such techniques to strangle competition business works well.

Considering the modus operandi of the KnSub (pun on the UnSub of Criminal Minds show) I would advise SmithMicro to stay not kilometers but miles away from anything that even remotely looks like technologies implemented in any of DAZ programs.

Quote - $40 for D|S and the Vicky 5 morph kit. ...compared to...

$262 for Poser 9 and the Antonia morph kit.

The V5 morph kit, by itself, is about comparable to the standalone Antonia, by itself.  V5 includes two (count em folks, two) full body morphs, a single head morph, some boobie morphs (haha so cynical) and its standard price is $40.  The morph set for Antonia at RDNA's standard price is $17, and includes 10 new FBMs, and just, I mean, wtf dude I dunno how you can compare those two items with a straight face.  To get Genesis in the same ballpark as the Antonia morph kit you have to spend more like $150 just on morphs.

I also dunno how you can possibly compare Poser 9 to the free D|S.  I mean what the fuck.  I like you and all, not trying to be a jerk here, but what the fuck.  Does the free D|S have sculpting tools, rigging tools, global illumination, and just, I mean, what the fuck.  Is your point that new users can't read feature lists?  How do you think Poser ever sells any copies at all?  Just legacy users?  Are you kidding?

e: note I'm not bashing D|S at all here, just, wtf, how can you possibly consider it to have the same dollar value as Poser 9?  Even when I was brand new to 3d, I started with D|S, looked at the feature list of Poser 6 and was happy to pay the full price.

"I think I would put my focus on "established long term users".

I know of no retail commercial Entity
that sells a product to the general public
that would Embark on such a suicidal no growth strategy.
If that were a Viable business strategy
Why advertise and have a public Website?
Why Does Apple  Not just take its existing Client  Email List and send them exclusive info on the latest Iphone,Ipad or version of OSX??
and not even Bother with "Newbie" Ipad users users.

"Knees and elbows don't matter all that much when the figure is just going to be given a purchased pose with purchased clothes and placed with a purchased stage/backdrop and then rendered with purchased lighting and posted in the gallery here for everyone....."

nor does it matter much if you animate clothed figures, but the technology for improved joint bending is here so some people are going to demand it be implemented.

Cheers

I agree with Bantha, there is plenty that comes with Poser to keep a newbie occupied.  Even if you don't like Allyson and Ryan--you have other options and lots of toon characters.  Even  Poser Debut comes with 3 gigs of content--good for the beginner.  I guess as a seasoned user I have more of a difficulty that there isn't much new content in each subsequent Poser release; it's mostly stuff I've had for years.  As I said in a preceding post, if you add the value of all the added content the program itself is a steal.  $250 of content won't get you too much.  There is also tons of free Poser stuff out there, granted it's not always of the highest quality, but if a person doesn't have extra money to spend one can "make do" with free stuff.

Daz Studio was originally taking a "modular" approach, that is it orginally lacked even some basic tools that needed to be purchased separately.  Now it includes a lot of things "under the hood" that used to be for pay add-ons.

I'm really not sure what we are debating here.  I think this thread went off in a weird direction.  It perhaps should be renamed "Can we live without Daz content."  The answer to that depends on the person.  If Daz suddenly collapsed in on itself like a house of cards Poser would go on; new items from other 3D vendors would arise to take their place.  A better question would be "Do we want to live without Daz content?"  I really don't want to live without Daz because they have so many good things, but it seems to me that Genesis will be an endless money pit for me and Poser is my software of choice, not Daz Studio--so it remains to be seen what will happen.

"With the actual Version you get the G2 figures, Alyson and Ryan, Posette and Dork, James and Jessy, some Toons"

HI I was not aware that poser 9 /poser pro still included
the P6 Figures
do they include a weight mapped version of james or jessie?? They are much better figures than A&R IMHO.

Cheers

Quote - ...  Even when I was brand new to 3d, I started with D|S, looked at the feature list of Poser 6 and was happy to pay the full price.

I thought it was just me. I actually started doing 3D with Sims2 (yes, the game!), from there to Blender, rigging was too-hard basket, so on to DS (it wasn't even 1.x then) and finally - when i read the feature list of Poser 6 - got it at a huge deal: only AUD$ 300! Wow, what a steal. And that was back in... what? 2005? - and now I upgraded PP2010 to PP2012 for about a third of that.

I'd be curious to know how many started with DS and decided it just wasn't right for them, for whatever reason. Seems a common trend. Okay, 2 isn't a common trend, but you know what I'm sayin'...

Quote - "Knees and elbows don't matter all that much when the figure is just going to be given a purchased pose with purchased clothes and placed with a purchased stage/backdrop and then rendered with purchased lighting and posted in the gallery here for everyone....."

nor does it matter much if you animate clothed figures, but the technology for improved joint bending is here so some people are going to demand it be implemented.

Cheers

The improved joint bending is part of Poser as well. Genesis' joints work great in Poser, just like WM-Antonias.  I assume that we will have a weight mapped V4 soon, which would mean that we can use the best-supported figure with the actual technology.

Catmull-Clark style SubD is the only thing which is missing on Poser at the moment. It would be nice to have, but it's not this important for me - and it's not for improved joint bending, just for reducing polys.

Quote - "With the actual Version you get the G2 figures, Alyson and Ryan, Posette and Dork, James and Jessy, some Toons"

HI I was not aware that poser 9 /poser pro still included
the P6 Figures
do they include a weight mapped version of james or jessie?? They are much better figures than A&R IMHO.

Cheers

No weightmapped version up to now, no. And I agree that A&R aren't the best figures around, the faces look much too strange for my taste. But this is just now.

A lot of people have Pro 2012 now, converting a figure to weight maps needs only to be done once. I'm far from being as good at this up to now, but I'm learning, and I'm sure that I'm not the only one. I'm sure that we will have a lot of weight mapped figures in a couple of months. Transfering the rig to the clothes is really easy, so weight mapped clothes will be available as well. It's a question of time, nothing more.  

"I'd be curious to know how many started with DS and decided it just wasn't right for them, for whatever reason. Seems a common trend. Okay, 2 isn't a common trend, but you know what I'm sayin'..."

While you have a small percentage of people who say they use both apps
any read of the D.A.Z. forum shows that the great majority of DS users never used poser.
Which tends  to confirm My suspicion that D.A.Z. has no interest in getting poser users to switch to Studio but instead is trying to get Artists from "other" fields to get into  DS.

Cheers

Quote -
Which tends  to confirm My suspicion that D.A.Z. has no interest in getting poser users to switch to Studio but instead is trying to get Artists from "other" fields to get into  DS.

Well, there was this Thread... just sayin'...

My 3D path was similar to yours RobynsViel.  I had a little add-on for Adobe Photo Deluxe that made it possible to add 3D models to pictures to enhance them called Kazoo Studio.  I became facinated with Kazoo Studio and bought the full version, but still found it too limiting.  I also becamed enamored with the people in the Sims.  From there I found a little 3D program that game me more options to create 3D scenes called Simply 3D--but it didn't have any 3D characters or people.  I bought a book called *Getting Started With 3D *found out about Poser 4.  If you guys think Poser is expensive now, it cost a fortune back then--$500 and I couldn't afford it.  Eventually I was able to get Poser 4 for half price and the rest is history.  There was no other option for easy to use human figures at the time, Daz Studio did not exist and 3D models cost as fortune.  Just a simple 3D model at Daz could cost as much as $50 with nothing coming with it.  We certainly live in a golden age for the 3D hobbiest.

"Well, there was this Thread... just sayin'..."

From the Linked thread:
"I wish you guys would get back to what you do best... creating characters, and make darned sure it is compatible with Poser. Breaking that is signing your death warrant, commercially."

Hmm the OP of that thread is clearly a veteran poser user with an obvious Bias and concern about the loss of the old Defunct paradigm ( poser compatible V-chicks& content for eternity)

Growth lies in NEW customers
not trying to win over entrenched partisans from other apps.

Notice how Apple Did not not tried to take Away
the  Entrenched corporate Clients of Microsoft by convincing Conservative Corporate IT Dept's to stop buying those Huge enterprise Windows bundles or Convince Die hard, build your own Rig, PC Gamers to buy a ridiculously priced MAC pro.

with the Iphone, Ipods& pads They targeted Lay people
(non-techy uncles ,cousins and grandma's )far removed from the fever swamped web forums of platform Jihaadists.

Ironicly I just visited a thread over at DAZ about the new DAZ front page.
It seems ,to me at least, that many of the DAZites
themselves Dont under stand the new direction their beloved provider is taking.

One notable Complaint was that the new  site front page basicly contains Alot of really cool Images and Art and  a link to Download DAZ Studio4.

No tech specs ,no feature list or even a link to the actual store to buy the latest V-chick hookerware.

Well IMHO it is a simple strategy aimed at NEW people to the scene. Show some really cool renders& art and associate them with your program and "upsell"them on content and plugins etc. afterwards.

If you have seen any of the recent Windows 7 TV Ads you see a similar strategy,
You see happy, good looking suburbanite Families enjoying
their Kinect Cameras and uploading Cool colorful vids to Facebook . Not a tech oriented feature list About Win 7's  64 bit architecture,Multi-threading etc.

Wether DAZ will grow from this same approach remains to be seen but its clear they are looking outside the existing poser/ D.A.Z communities for growth.

Cheers

Quote - I'd be curious to know how many started with DS and decided it just wasn't right for them, for whatever reason. Seems a common trend. Okay, 2 isn't a common trend, but you know what I'm sayin'...

Make that 3.  Started with DS free, upgraded to DS3A, dumped it all for Poser 8.

Reasons:

1.  tired of being nickeled and dimed to death by DAZ.

2.  lack of documentation and technical support

3.  DAZ attitude toward existing customer base (screw you, we're moving on to bigger and better)

Quote -
If you have seen any of the recent Windows 7 TV Ads you see a similar strategy,
You see happy, good looking suburbanite Families enjoying
their Kinect Cameras and uploading Cool colorful vids to Facebook . Not a tech oriented feature list About Win 7's  64 bit architecture,Multi-threading etc.

Wether DAZ will grow from this same approach remains to be seen but its clear they are looking outside the existing poser/ D.A.Z communities for growth.

Cheers

What you seem to be missing is that few "families" purchase the new MS operating system.  They use it because it came with their new computer. 

MS upgrades happen because people buy new COMPUTERS not new operating systems.

Most MS outright purchases are tech folks refusing to use the new, bug ridden operating system and purchasing the older, stable operating system with which to replace the bug ridden one.

You're trying to equate buying habits that do not exist.

People need compelling reasons to upgrade or they won't; Genesis is compelling enough for people to want to upgrade if they want to use the new Genesis figures.  I upgraded to Windows 7 because I hated Vista and it was not full of bugs and worked fine out of the box with very few issues.  Miscrosoft addressed the issues people  had with Vista and fixed them.  I think the bottom line is that if people see an upgrade as being only slightly incremental they might be more willing to skip one.   Poser's upgrade is less compelling, but the SSS, library,  and Open GL improvements were enough to sell me.

"You're trying to equate buying habits that do not exist."

No I am comparing marketing approaches
that are similar.

Your are correct that a tech savvy Windows veteran Might opt out of Win7 for  whatever tech reasons.
Just as a tech savvy poser animator like me who actually knows that DS has No Dope Sheet  or proper graph editor even comparable to My old poser 6.

But a person still using poser 6 for animations
or Windows XP Does NOT contribute to market share growth.

and the Ad's are not targeting us/them.

Cheers

Quote - "You're trying to equate buying habits that do not exist."

No I am comparing marketing approaches
that are similar.
...
Cheers

I don't think that the comparison fits. DAZ sells it's content to Poser users and to Studio users, and they are trying to add new customers from other areas as well. I agree that a company should always try to get new customers, but it usually should try to keep the old customer base as well. I don't know if they get more new buyers from pro apps then they have in the Poser community. There are no signs that the Poser community is very keen to switch to Studio, just because of Genesis.

And this is the second aspect of this issue. DAZ does not produce that much characters, clothing, textures for it's figures, the main part is provided by their PA's. But they risk a lot if they start to produce stuff for Genesis since they loose the Poser users as customers as well, and most likely won't get any new customers from the pro apps. But if the PAs don't support Genesis, there is just a slim chance that it will become as popular as V4.

In my opinion it's not SM who have a problem if Genesis isn't a sucess in the Poser community, it's DAZ. Without the money of the Poser users, Genesis isn't likely to get the support needed to become the prime figure - and DAZ cannot make much more money from V4.

Genesis is an advanced product, with many more possibilities than V4, bends better, has more possibilities, but creating good content is also more complicated, from what I've read. Will the PAs try to master that, for smaller sales then before? I doubt it.