Giving something away now to generate paid purchases later is a well-established business practice. DAZ certainly didn't invent it. Like that ridiculously low-priced inkjet printer you bought that requires frequent and expensive ink cartridge replacements.  Like Poser Debut, which is intended to whet your appetite for essential features in the more expensive versions.

Randall, if you ever come back here... I've noticed that the new DAZ Poser Store (which is really just a search that filters out Genesis and other non-Poser goods)  doesn't include everything for Poser. In other words, I'll see a Poser-compatible item under the general New Stuff search but it's not in the Poser Store. Anyone who confines their interest to the Poser store isn't seeing everything they're supposed to see.

Example from today: Poser File Cleaner (MAC)

Rand said up front that he didn't want to discuss the store, but yeah I'll agree with you the store search function is terrible.  It's not limited to "Poser only" type goods, e.g. if you filter just for Genesis, a good number of Genesis items that should be displayed, aren't.

There is a (sadly) interesting thread over DAZ.

Months ago I wrote (and was immediately tarred and feathered by the usual suspects) that the Infinito plugin for Studio was a very bad omen for the future of Bryce and here we have the not-doing-any-development-"currently" for Bryce. I do not rejoice because I know that Bryce had a loyal following and those people are receiving a very sour Christmas present; I just register that I was right.

On the other hand the news about Hexagon is completely understandable. In a world where you can download for free a beast like Blender 2.61 there is no more place for a program like Hexagon.

At the same time I noticed one of the features of the new Reality release is the support for IES lights. Given that one of the features that distinguish Carrara Pro from Standard are IES lights... I see another black bird slowly circling in the sky, especially after having read a post in the previous page about an ever increasing assimilation (sorry, integration) of Carrara with Studio.

Quote - Rand said up front that he didn't want to discuss the store

Oops, so he did. It was so many posts ago, I forgot.

I'm not really telling you you shouldn't speak about it, just pointing out he's not too likely to have a good answer for you about that.

Quote - > Quote - ...{Carrara works with poser format in a runtime, not studio format in a content folder}

Shall I go on?

Let them the time to manage Carrara as they want and then the Runtime folder is vanished from there too.
If you don't know, they're planning to add the DS Content Management to Carrara.

That's all said.

...great, so they going to force the CMS on Carrara (and no doubt Bryce) too? 

Maybe it's just me, but I find the Poser Runtime structure makes a lot more sense. 

...and I've been a Daz Studio user since I started in this.

...if it works, don't break it.

Quote - I'm not really telling you you shouldn't speak about it, just pointing out he's not too likely to have a good answer for you about that.

You will have to agree that any discussion regarding Daz and things concerning Daz are going to meet with Rand's objectives to starting this thread in the first place.

In the meantime - in case people have lost sight of it: we have a figure designed for Poser. Out Of The Box. Weightmapped using Poser 9/PP2012 technology. Using shaders showcasing Poser 9/ PP2012's new shader nodes, including subsurface-scattering.

And it all works spectacularly well.

Those who have had a look elsewhere to this no-effect thread ("we're not changing anything: we're just here to generate discussion") have discovered that Poser actually does have a very compelling figure to play with.

Which figure? :biggrin:

The Antonia thread has 11,500+ posts and counting. Surely she won't mind if we chat about Vicky and Daz to no effect over in this corner. We'll try to keep it down.

It's not the count: it's the attention. This thread happen just as a product that showcased Poser's newest features appeared.

Coincidence?

Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating. It's all good. :biggrin:

"Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating"

Hi please consider that the release of "Antonia" is a "non event "for many people here in this particular thread.

Cheers

Quote - "Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating"

Hi please consider that the release of "Antonia" is a "non event "for many people here in this particular thread.

Cheers

LOL. I think if you gotta spam someone's thread twice about your figure to get attention, I'm inclined to agree. 

Quote - "Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating"

Hi please consider that the release of "Antonia" is a "non event "for many people here in this particular thread.

Cheers

Yep. Sure is, isn't it?

Quote - > Quote - "Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating"

Hi please consider that the release of "Antonia" is a "non event "for many people here in this particular thread.

Cheers

LOL. I think if you gotta spam someone's thread twice about your figure to get attention, I'm inclined to agree. 

Yes, I'm sure you would be inclined to agree. Promoting a non-Poser product in a Poser forum isn't Spam but reminding people of a Poser-friendly product in a Poser forum is.

Fair enough. :blink:

Quote - > Quote - "Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating"

Hi please consider that the release of "Antonia" is a "non event "for many people here in this particular thread.

Cheers

Yep. Sure is, isn't it?

Make that three. Please stop.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - "Naw, you guys go ahead discussing non-events. We'll continue creating"

Hi please consider that the release of "Antonia" is a "non event "for many people here in this particular thread.

Cheers

Yep. Sure is, isn't it?

Make that three. Please stop.

Please stop what? talking about a figure that works in Poser? natively? Is that a bad thing? In a Poser forum? Oh, hang on, in this thread? Oh, gotcha. Touched a raw nerve. Right. Carry on - let's by all means see how we can export a blob to work in Poser where clothing doesn't fit, textures don't work.

Please let's carry on. Sorry for the interruption. You have the floor. :biggrin:

Quote - When DS was first developed Carrara was still an Eovia product. I'm not sure when DAZ bought Carara and Hex, but I'm pretty sure DS was at version 1 (after the original betas) if not at version 2. Not that I would entirely endorse your sentiments - it depends what tools you are looking for, and your preferences in interface set up.

That wasn't really my thought, let me explain better...

If I remember well, the first versions of DS (1 and 2) were a pure content loader and renderer, nothing more.

When DS3A has come out with all the features of a Pro version, Carrara was already owned by DAZ.

Why do they create a new program for Pro with another already existing and more powerful?

Quote - > Quote - When DS was first developed Carrara was still an Eovia product. I'm not sure when DAZ bought Carara and Hex, but I'm pretty sure DS was at version 1 (after the original betas) if not at version 2. Not that I would entirely endorse your sentiments - it depends what tools you are looking for, and your preferences in interface set up.

That wasn't really my thought, let me explain better...

If I remember well, the first versions of DS (1 and 2) were a pure content loader and renderer, nothing more.

When DS3A has come out with all the features of a Pro version, Carrara was already owned by DAZ.

Why do they create a new program for Pro with another already existing and more powerful?

Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

Quote - > Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

In this case, though, DAZ saved Bryce from extinction and saved Carrara and Hexagon from heading that way. Carrara's popularity was dropping off, except for the diehards, when eovia decided to unload Carrara along with Hexagon to DAZ and move back to Europe. I had Carrara a couple years before the sale and it was frustrating to watch them start sliding. I only stayed with them because DAZ bought them, otherwise I would've saved my money and eventually bought (probably around now as it would've taken this long to save enough) XSI or 3ds Max.

DAZ Studio has the advantage of being new from the ground up and not having to deal with legacy code. That's why I laugh when somebody is complaining about no new manual for Carrara yet. Not enough has changed to rule out using the old manual. What little is new can be figured out online.

My question to Rand:

Are you coming back?

If not this thread has now run its course.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

In this case, though, DAZ saved Bryce from extinction and saved Carrara and Hexagon from heading that way. Carrara's popularity was dropping off, except for the diehards, when eovia decided to unload Carrara along with Hexagon to DAZ and move back to Europe. I had Carrara a couple years before the sale and it was frustrating to watch them start sliding. I only stayed with them because DAZ bought them, otherwise I would've saved my money and eventually bought (probably around now as it would've taken this long to save enough) XSI or 3ds Max.

Note of that has any bearing on WHY they purchased the software, however.

All that proves is that people like me were stupid enough to keep paying for it (yep, bought Carrara 8) without documentation and any promise of a future.

So, now they're done with Bryce.  And Hexagon.  Announced it is so. 

At least those of us on the sidelines, no longer investing in DAZ product, can see the writing on the wall.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Well, Daz is enterprising. You can't fault them for that. DS was developed for certain goals: Carrara for somewhat different goals. That is to Daz's credit. They acknowledged that users might have different objectives in creating 3D images. Good ON them!

Yes, that's true, but seems that DAZ is leaving all his other software covered with dust in a corner of the room and has only eyes for DS...

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

In this case, though, DAZ saved Bryce from extinction and saved Carrara and Hexagon from heading that way. Carrara's popularity was dropping off, except for the diehards, when eovia decided to unload Carrara along with Hexagon to DAZ and move back to Europe. I had Carrara a couple years before the sale and it was frustrating to watch them start sliding. I only stayed with them because DAZ bought them, otherwise I would've saved my money and eventually bought (probably around now as it would've taken this long to save enough) XSI or 3ds Max.

Note of that has any bearing on WHY they purchased the software, however.

All that proves is that people like me were stupid enough to keep paying for it (yep, bought Carrara 8) without documentation and any promise of a future.

So, now they're done with Bryce.  And Hexagon.  Announced it is so. 

At least those of us on the sidelines, no longer investing in DAZ product, can see the writing on the wall.

My understanding is they are only done for the moment. I didn't see anything saying it's over. Instead they've posted that all the developers are working on documentation for everything and fixing bugs in Studio and working on Carrara 8.5 and Carrara 9. Their programming team is small.

Quote -
It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

So, err, what competition did Carrara/Eovia present to DAZ, exactly? I'll save you the trouble: none.

Carrara does make some sense from the perspective of having a platform to move D|S figures into and out of, as it provides some fairly decent modeling, a very nice render setup, and other goodies. 

I know that DAZ bought Bryce to save it (and the still-sizeable Bryce user base) from the oblivion of Corel's software graveyard, where the one other bit of unaccounted-for MetaCreations software (Canoma) sits.

yup, i think the thread should be locked/deleted. it has served no real purpose at all.

those of us that are not blind and totally believe everything the company says know this was just a PR exercise, it has been proven time and time again that they only take note of anything that toes the company line.

I thought his thread was supposed to be about Poser and Poser users, not about various versions of Studio, Cararara etc.

Normally the mods point people in the direction of those sections, but have forgotten for some reason.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - > Quote -

It's pretty common for a software house to buy up the competition to kill it through attrition.

So, err, what competition did Carrara/Eovia present to DAZ, exactly? I'll save you the trouble: none.

Carrara does make some sense from the perspective of having a platform to move D|S figures into and out of, as it provides some fairly decent modeling, a very nice render setup, and other goodies. 

I know that DAZ bought Bryce to save it (and the still-sizeable Bryce user base) from the oblivion of Corel's software graveyard, where the one other bit of unaccounted-for MetaCreations software (Canoma) sits.

Oh, so that's why they announced yesterday that they're not going to be updating Bryce?  To save it from oblivion?  OK!

As for Carrara, my guess would be they needed some bit of the Carrara code for Daz Studio, so they bought it to own the code and port it to their app in house.

Of course, I freely admit that I am guessing.

Not a perpetual insider like Pen, here.

Quote - I thought his thread was supposed to be about Poser and Poser users, not about various versions of Studio, Cararara etc.

Normally the mods point people in the direction of those sections, but have forgotten for some reason.

All the best.

LROG

Sorry for the little OT, but I think this can give an idea of what kind of "surprises" a Poser user might receive in the next future...

For Hexagon ex users: Wings3d, SketchUp and Blender. They are all free so you don't need to invest any money.

For Bryce ex users: Blender, TG2 (there is a free edition with the only limit of render size and antialias setting), Vue. If you are into landscaping you might also consider Unreal engine, Cryengine and the free edition of Lumion 3D (all free for personal use).

There is life after DAZ. A lot of life.

P.S.: dear Robynsveil, you are fast learning the art of hitting with a sledgehammer "soft spots" :lol:. Remember, the more "they" foam, the harder and well aimed the hit was :biggrin:.

I do really hate to add to the Off Topic posts, but it was not announced that they were not going to be updating Bryce, just that there will be no further updates at this point in time. Dev cycles are just that, cycles, and Bryce doesn't feature in the  current Dev cycle.

Would be nice if we could hear about Poser things.

All the best.

LROG

Well, it's been days since the DAZ guy was here. To be honest there isn't much for him to respond to any more. The return on his investment of time and energy here is diminishing fast. So I'm unsubscribing at last.

I would just say that there is a very large segment of the Poser market that isn't interested in Genesis, isn't interested in Antonia (until the ability to morph her and clothe her develops a bit more, anyway), but do have an interest in what role DAZ will play in our hobby. Our large investments in V4/M4 all started with DAZ, after all. If DAZ becomes all Genesis all the time, that is of concern to us.

Quote - I would just say that there is a very large segment of the Poser market that isn't interested in Genesis

Very true!

Quote - There is life after DAZ. A lot of life.  

I think this is probably the truest thing said on these last few pages.

This thread really should be lock now as the OP has not been here for a few days and it has become way off topic.

This thread has been one BIG adevert for DAZ and for Studio etc.

Quite a lot of questions have gone unanswered or ignored.

Quite a lot of questions have not been Poser related, but have been allowed to continue by the mods.

Perhaps DAZ has got what it wants (Advertising) and now appears to be not interested in the thread.

All the best.

LROG

I do not see why the thread should be closed

I am still waiting for the answer on what improvements Poser SR1 will bring to the exporter

unsubscribing

... and here I thought the thread title was "Hi! DAZ 3D wants to chat" not "The usual suspects run in while Rands not around to grind that axe to totally derail the thread."

I think the metal has worn down by now and there's nothing but a pointed stick.

I thought certain people were supposed to be creating?

Where's Jen at to tighten this thread back up? Natives are getting restless again.

The thread was derailed a long tome ago!

All the best.

LROG

As one that will still slip Dork and Posey in as background figures, I don't think any investment in the older "non Genesis" figures is lost, they haven't been deleted from our computers magically and won't be.  If DAZ decides to abandon the older figures completely, concentrating everything on the Genesis, Well, Antonia WM should show them what the end result will be.  It's been said Nature abhorrs a vacuum, and one is beginning to appear.  DAZ may be the "number one" when it comes to figures, but liike anything else, you're number one only until someone comes along and takes that from you.  One only has to look at Blender and how far it's progressed to see this. 

People will still create things, both for sale and for free.

All the best.

LROG

The best thing I can advise anyone is to learn to model things for yourself.

It's not as hard as people think and it's a lot of fun.

Check out the tutorials by Fugazi1968.

All the best.

LROG

Ya, right.

I like DAZ_Rand. He's always straight up with me. I think the man has weathered a hell of a storm here and came out intact. I'm sure he will post here when reads something worth responding to.

Now how to address the misconceptions and misinformation.

DAZ bought Carrara AFTER it was made poser content copatable and became the 3rd member of the poser content club. Add that to an already powerful CG app and DAZ would have had some third party compatition.

No DAZ wont be forcing CMS on Carrarests. CMS is simply, and nothing more then a content manager. You don't need it, both studio and carrara work with out it. I always uninstall CMS and I have had no problem using genesis or any of the new content.

Bryce can't use content directly so I don't see CMS being pushed in to it.

Nether Bryce nor Hex are dead, just resting. Of coarse it dosen't give a person much optimisiam that the DAZ bryce developer is gone. But I am sure DAZ will hire some intern to work on Bryce when it's development cycle comes back around. And as long as there is a bridge from Studio to Hex I don't see DAZ droping it, it is an integral part of content development now.

But we all know apps that don't sell content get moved to the bottom. In my opinion Hex was updated spacifically to be DS4 compable, yes we got some bug fixes but DS4 compatability was the big thing.

I have no problem with that. If it keeps Hex alive I'm all for it. Because when it comes down to it, I would rather naw my own foot off then bash my head against Blender again. My last try at blender had the cops knocking on my door because a neibhor thought I was tyring to kill some woman named Balinda.

Antonia is a nice figure, easy to work with and I am using her in carrara for my soft cloth experaments. She is also ugly.

If I move a figure from studio to carrara it doesn't go back. Carrara is my end app, what most of the rest of my apps are suport for. This includes studio. But carrara doesn't need studio. Carrara can use content as well as if not better then Poser or Studio. And you can certainly do more with it once it is there.

One of the problems with carrara, and what puts a few people off is you actually have to do something. Carrara isn't load and shot. Actually having to put some effort in to it puts people off. "Oh my you mean I have to reset shaders? You need to fix that".

Studio gives you a cube to work in, Carrara gives you a world.

DAZ is activly developing Carrara. DAZ knows there are things you can do in carrara that studio just can't manage. Carrara also sells content, so DAZ will continue to develope it even if it's just for us that like to work outside of the cube ;)

More over. DAZ is developing far more then just genesis compatability in Carrara. If you use carrara and are doing the beta you see all the new stuff; that it would be nice to have a manual to explain. But DAZ doesn't do mauals. no profit in it. I say that like I don't know there are folks working on their own time for the DS4 manual.

What bites on this is DAZ had a great person for doing the manuals but DAZ blew it.

Robynsveil this may be a poser forum, but it is an ask DAZ thread. Even though it is hard to post something off topic, you have manged it about 4 times.

Lots of things have gone off topic, such as asking about Carrara or Studio related things and documentation for Studio

The mods normally rush in and tell folks to post those bits in the correct forums, but have recently forgetton to do so with tis thread.

All the best.

LROG

Quote -
Oh, so that's why they announced yesterday that they're not going to be updating Bryce?  To save it from oblivion?  OK!

They bought the thing in 2005. Nearly seven years' repreive from the executioner is pretty miraculous in software terms.

Quote - As for Carrara, my guess would be they needed some bit of the Carrara code for Daz Studio, so they bought it to own the code and port it to their app in house.

Nope. D|S stood on its own long before DAZ bought Carrara. Try again? 

Quote - > Quote -

Oh, so that's why they announced yesterday that they're not going to be updating Bryce?  To save it from oblivion?  OK!

 

They bought the thing in 2005. Nearly seven years' repreive from the executioner is pretty miraculous in software terms.

Quote - As for Carrara, my guess would be they needed some bit of the Carrara code for Daz Studio, so they bought it to own the code and port it to their app in house.

Nope. D|S stood on its own long before DAZ bought Carrara. Try again? 

There's simply no use in continuing a conversation where the other party refuses to have an honest discussion.

I never said it didn't stand on it's own.  Nice try diverting the conversation, but I'd prefer to discuss what I said, not what you prefer to discuss.

@Glitterati3d: It would help if you made your subject clearer. Perhaps you wanted to discuss my alleged perpetual insider role? I assure you that the word "perpetual" most emphatically doesn't fit. ;)

==

Quote -

Quote - There is life after DAZ. A lot of life.

I think this is probably the truest thing said on these last few pages.

...and yet here you (and the other usual suspects) are... talking about, err, DAZ. One would think that the life beyond would be one exciting enough to not have to keep returning to the subject like a bunch of stalking ex-lovers... 

Quote -  

...and yet here you (and the other usual suspects) are... talking about, err, DAZ. One would think that the life beyond would be one exciting enough to not have to keep returning to the subject like a bunch of stalking ex-lovers... 

 

Ok...Thats just funny LOL

I am sure most of the comments involving the people who are obvisouly trying to stir things up are probably gonna get deleted...but this was to funny to not comment on LOL

Quote - @Glitterati3d: It would help if you made your subject clearer. Perhaps you wanted to discuss my alleged perpetual insider role? I assure you that the word "perpetual" most emphatically doesn't fit. ;)

==

 

Quote -

Quote - There is life after DAZ. A lot of life.

I think this is probably the truest thing said on these last few pages.

...and yet here you (and the other usual suspects) are... talking about, err, DAZ. One would think that the life beyond would be one exciting enough to not have to keep returning to the subject like a bunch of stalking ex-lovers... 

OK, let me see if I understand this.

According to you, as an ex-DS users, if I continue to discuss how badly they screwed me, then I'm secretly still in love with them?  Ooooookay!

And, when a DAZ official comes here to have a supposed discussion with Poser users, those ex-DS users who converted to Poser, should just keep their mouth shut and stay out of the conversation?  Ooooookay!

I really don't know how you think DAZ might repair the rift they have caused with some Poser customers by telling them to sit down and shut up because their opinion just doesn't count. 

No problem.  Won't bother with any more DAZ threads, or DAZ products, or DAZ PAs, or DAZ software, thankyouverymuch.

Exit, stage left.

lol!  funny how some of the worst shit stirrers are daz PA's?  ( admittedly, not all)

I thought I was talking about getting the thread back online with Poser content, not DAZ documentation, Studio options etc. that are nothing to do with the original concept of this thread.

I have not got into the arguments etc.

All the best.

LROG