WOW First post on a new forum and I spawned 2 pages.You have successfully   made me feel like the most important person in all of your lives And at the same time made me feel like a first class DUMB ASS for asking for a lil help .Dam you artsy type get me every time.

You make me feel like I single handily HACK the 3D software world. came to each one of your houses and took food out of your hand and kicked your dog. DRAMA MUCH HEAR???

I do appreciate  the HARD work that go’s into the pieces you create and marvel on how its done.

I don’t know what happens to your art after you produce it .I my self would love to see something I worked hard one be spread out for all to see FOR FREE. I don’t want or need anyone to buy my work for me to feel good about it.

Frankly and not to seen RUDE how and where one obtains  ones software is none of MY Business   !!

One would think other artist would embrace a fledgling artist looking for a lil advice from what he would think to be pros?

And for the record  young  ?    ,Hardly       I’m 48 years old with 6 kids

My wife and I are avid gamers. 6 years in (WOW and the sims ) I love building and creating and am ready to make the next step into 3D modeling.

So now if we can move on from how and why I have what I have and on to, lets see what he can do with it,?

Attached Link: Wings 3D

In the image here, I made a model of my PC using nothing but Poser and primitive shapes. It was before I knew how to model, and hell, was kinda fun.

Now, I use Wings 3D (see attached link). It's a free modeling program that's extrememly easy to learn. You can always try Blender if you're feeling frisky as well :o)

... and...

Welcome to renderosity :o)

Just another "lay of the land" thing... 

As BionicRooster says, Poser is not a modeling program.  Generally speaking, Poser models cannot be legally exported to games like the Sims (though I realize many people do it, even selling them for a profit).  We've had people show up here asking for help in pirating Poser content to Second Life, the Sims, etc.  Don't do that.  You may think it's silly, but copyright is very important to us here at Renderosity.

If you learn a real modeling program like Blender or Wings3D, then using the models made in them in games is fine.

Wow, I stand corrected. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for bringing me up short, Kaihean. Won't happen again.

My judgment about your age was that your level of spelling skill. And that you appeared ignorant of copyright law. I guess ICPrincess and OKCRandy and others that were supposedly rude to you were right.

Get a legal copy of Poser.  Or you will remain the first-class dumb-ass you described yourself as. Piracy is piracy. Ignorance does not exonerate you.Nor does arrogance.

I'm subscribing to the lay-of-the-land myself, now...

Well Kaihean, it's nice to see that you learned to communicate via the written word (even if it was by using a spell checker... though it can't check words like "Hear" instead of "here"), aged 32 years, and aquired a Family that allowed you to start gaming, over night. It's gratifying to know that a little elbow grease and a "can do" attitude still pays off.

And you are not the focus of, nor much of a concern in my life....drama or not. I just have lots of time ;-O

No matter, your software is still illegal. You'll do what you do of course... but your options have been pretty well covered.

And Damn is not spelled Dam. Shoot me a PM and I'll help you spell the other words needed to get you started in a not at all lucrative creative career in Profanity. It is my medium. I'm the BagginsBill of Profanity.... ProfanityDude if you will.

I usually refer to a well thumbed copy of Roger Mellie's Profanisaurus, as and when occasion dictates ;-)

Quote - I'm the BagginsBill of Profanity.... ProfanityDude if you will.

Hate to burst your bubble, mate. If anyone deserves that particular accolade it's me. :)

Oh, boys and girls, do I feel lonely here in this group.

Posering since Poser1, yeah an old oldtimer, I "only" bought 3 extra items ever.
I regret all 3, so buying? Well, my hair in my neck tells me ontherwise.
And I never made anything to sell.

When I need something, I make it.
Well, I try, and mostly succeed.
Using Poser, anim8or, uvmapper free, and Picture Publisher 10.

Exept for Poser, all old timers, so I am in good company :-)

I love the creative part way more then the financial part.
Poser is my hobby, my passion.
I love the experimenting, the testing, the; "How Grr Grr Grr can I get there?"

How to get to 90% of the quality using 10% of the effort, and at NO extra cost but time.
It is my hobby, so time is not a relevant factor.

"Time" is what I have for free.

On the copyright issue?
There HAS to be a legal way to get these Warez sites of the net.
How can it be soo difficult to get those sites offline and convicted?

I like the open way of life.
I like freedom more then anything else.

But I hate criminals, thiefs and pirates.

Happy Posering to ya all, and keep it legal please.
Thanks,
Tony

Quote - the BagginsBill of Profanity

LOL!  I love this thread! :)

This is a joke.  Just for fun!

Lol … I love threads like this because they make my head spin.  Let us take a look at the bottom line of what we have said here:

If you own software (license for Poser, etc.)  it has no value because you can not sell it and you can not give it away legally.  Value is determined in the world of courts and lawyers by what a “Willing Buyer” and a “Willing Seller” would exchange for the property.

Now, let us talk divorce.  Some guy (or girl) knows he is getting a divorce and goes out and buys $100,000.00 in software (license for Poser, etc.) with all the cash the couple has. (this is not crazy … it could be done fairly easily and people getting a divorce will do crazy things)

What happens?

Quote - No matter, your software is still illegal.

Unless this software was downloaded by someone, it was purchased by someone, so it is not illegal. If other person that is not whom purchased is using this software and it was not stolen from whom purchased, it doesn't turn it illegal. You must know a little more about laws.

Quote - .... ProfanityDude if you will.

Are you related to the PostalDude?

I'm not a gamer but I did have to go out and buy the game that Joe Lieberman called the most violent game ever. 

Quote - There HAS to be a legal way to get these Warez sites of the net.
How can it be soo difficult to get those sites offline and convicted?

Really? How difficult? Impossible. Here's why... Most, if not all, are hosted in Russia, or a country friendly to Russia, or at least, as equally lawless, such as Ukraine. They may pay lip service to international law but in reality, copyrights are way, way down on their list of things to do. In any event, copyright laws are in general, civil instruments, not criminal. As for torrent sites, they are still something of a grey area. Some have been convicted but the convictions have by and large been either dubious/for political intent/unconstitutional. Like it or not, they're both probably here to stay.

Quote - > Quote - No matter, your software is still illegal.

Unless this software was downloaded by someone, it was purchased by someone, so it is not illegal. If other person that is not whom purchased is using this software and it was not stolen from whom purchased, it doesn't turn it illegal. You must know a little more about laws.

So should you. If the terms are "non-transferable", the software is not legal for use.

Quote - So should you. If the terms are "non-transferable", the software is not legal for use.

The EULA is not the law, you can put anything you want in the EULA, but this doesn't make it a law.

You purchased a knife and the EULA states: "SicoKnivesCorp grants you the right to use the purchased knife to kill your wife"

Does it mean that it will be legal to kill your wife using this knife?

It is funny to see people living in a Capitalist system trying to apply Communist laws. As I know private property do exist in Capitalism and if you purchased something this becomes your property and you can do anything you want with something you own and it is a Constitutional right that no EULA can deprive you from this right.

Quote - > Quote - So should you. If the terms are "non-transferable", the software is not legal for use.

The EULA is not the law, you can put anything you want in the EULA, but this doesn't make it a law.

You purchased a knife and the EULA states: "SicoKnivesCorp grants you the right to use the purchased knife to kill your wife"

Does it mean that it will be legal to kill your wife using this knife?

It is funny to see people living in a Capitalist system trying to apply Communist laws. As I know private property do exist in Capitalism and if you purchased something this becomes your property and you can do anything you want with something you own and it is a Constitutional right that no EULA can deprive you from this right.

Hmmm, I think Microsoft would find your point of view very interesting. Very interesting, indeed.

I find your lack of legal knowledge...disturbing.

That's true if you were an owner, and not just a licensee, but in this case, we are licensee's of the software, and not owners. ...but what do I know, I'm just a communist...  :lol:

Here is similar "Legal" case:  LINK

I'm not a lawyer, but I think , if you purchase something like software and agree to an EULA, then you are bound by the terms of that as a contract between the seller and yourself. If you then break the terms of the EULA you open yourself to the risk of civil proceedings ( aka whoever can hire the most expensive lawyer wins ).

The Eula is the Law. It is a binding Contract that YOU agree to abide by when you install the software.

So there... neener neener.

People keep saying: "buy the software". You don't buy software: you buy a licence to use the software. That licence comes with an agreement (End User Licence Agreement). You are bound to the terms of that agreement (in any civilised part of the world where the courts can take you to task for breaking the terms of that agreement - wouldn't know about certain 3rd-world countries, of course)...

I think I live in a 3rd World State.

Quote - > Quote - So should you. If the terms are "non-transferable", the software is not legal for use.

The EULA is not the law, you can put anything you want in the EULA, but this doesn't make it a law.

You purchased a knife and the EULA states: "SicoKnivesCorp grants you the right to use the purchased knife to kill your wife"

Does it mean that it will be legal to kill your wife using this knife?

It is funny to see people living in a Capitalist system trying to apply Communist laws. As I know private property do exist in Capitalism and if you purchased something this becomes your property and you can do anything you want with something you own and it is a Constitutional right that no EULA can deprive you from this right.

Specifically, in English law at least, a EULA cannot grant rights to commit an illegal act, (in your example, murder) nor can it enforce an illegal condition on the purchaser. Since contracts can be challenged in court, and to this date a standard EULA for software has never been successfully challenged, your comparison is invalid, not a fair comparison and quite a bit silly. I would also bet most (note, I said "most" countries will have a similar set of laws in place.

Quote - People keep saying: "buy the software". You don't buy software: you buy a licence to use the software.

This varies; you actually can buy software, you can license software, and you can buy a copy of software to use, depending on what you actually buy. You probably rather seldomly buy software, but often buy a copy (this is what you do if you get a dvd, for example).

Quote - That licence comes with an agreement (End User Licence Agreement). You are bound to the terms of that agreement (in any civilised part of the world where the courts can take you to task for breaking the terms of that agreement - wouldn't know about certain 3rd-world countries, of course)...

Especially the EULAs of software bought from international operating software companies are formulated in a way, that they try to cover most of the countries this software is shipped to. This often means, that parts of these EULAs do not apply in one or the other country (this has nothing to do with 3rd world), it is simply because the companies do not want to make a seperate license agreement for each country they want to sell their software to. So you always have to look at each case and part of the EULA seperately. Take for example amazon. I have got my Poser from amazon. Is this legal? Amazon probably did not agree to Posers license agreement, because the license says "not transferable", but somehow amazon transfered this license to me, do you think they are fences and i am a criminal? What if you buy Poser as a gift for your spouse? Should this be allowed? Most EULAs do not allow that, yet it is legal in most countries (western world included). The USA have the first sale doctrine for these cases, but it varies from state to state and most other countries do not have an equivalent at all.

Quote - Kawecki: The EULA is not the law, ...

RobinsVeil: Hmmm, I think Microsoft would find your point of view very interesting. Very interesting, indeed

I do not exactly understand what that should mean, but for the innocent bystander: Microsoft is a company not only known for it's operating systems, but also known for products such as Internet Explorer and Office. And with these (among other things) they made themselves quite a name for their systematic infringements of patent laws (a specialization of copyright law). Judging from the sheer number of cases Microsoft is sued for infringement each year, BionicRooster's suggestion of erasing your hard disk and installing windows is probably the easiest way to install a big amount of unlicensed  software without actually getting sued (after losing a case they usually spent large amounts of money to avoid being forced to take back their software from their customers).

Quote - MacMyers: The Eula is the Law. It is a binding Contract that YOU agree to abide by when you install the software...
I think I live in a 3rd World State.

Even though directly opposing Kawecki's statement, i think the distinction is not to be made among 3rd world or not, but rather by a distinction between democratic or absolutistic regimes. Democratic regimes obey the principles of separation of power, meaning you can write in your EULAs what you want, but if someone violates them, it is still up to the judges to decide if it was illegal or not. Not to the one writing the EULAs and even less to some crazy forum posters, like me, so perhaps you live in an absolutistic country rather than 3rd world.

All this is pure speculation.

OK, I make some Poser Utility to sell.
I go to a Belgian Loyer and let him write me an EULA.
I include this in every purchase.
Now someone, "saturdays over square sundays", meaning in another country, many moons and even more miles away, violates my EULA.

And then? Do I go to court?

Will I invest thousands and thousands of my own hard earned euro-dollar-yens-gold-diamonds?
For what?

He broke my Belgian EULA on a 5 to 20 dollar item? 

For a Dazzie-DAZ or Posy-Poser item, this is not likely to happen.

A Company like Microsoft could take legal action, yes.
Perhaps even SM could.

And the SH*T is, they know that.

And as SamT said here above; They are here to stay.

All that licence and Eula stuff is only for people who behave and try to respect the rules..
A criminal could not care less.
(If he /she can read the Eula in the first place)

Pointless discussion.

Quote - Hmmm, I think Microsoft would find your point of view very interesting. Very interesting, indeed.

Microsoft is above the Law and above the Constitution, after all is not Billy Gates God ?

Quote - People keep saying: "buy the software". You don't buy software: you buy a licence to use the software.

It would be if it was a leasing contract or a lending contract, but is not. It is a sale and you are the only and legitime owner of what you purchased, unless you live under Communist laws where you own nothing.

Quote - The Eula is the Law. It is a binding Contract that YOU agree to abide by when you install the software.

It is not in this way. The EULA or any contract cannot have clauses that are against the State and Federal Laws and the Constitution.

The EULA or any contract cannot deny you rights granted by the Constitution or the Laws.

If an EULA or contract have illegal clauses the legal value of the EULA or contract is nill, so beware what do you put when you write an EULA, because it can have no legal value.

If you signed a contract doesn't mean that you are lost and must obbey even when you was cheated. The Law doesn't work in this way, you must only obbey what is legal. If it was in this way as you stated, people with vision problems, with little education or even educated people that don't have knowledge of legal words and terms could be cheated without any possiblity of defense.

Contracts use to have texts written in tiny letters that few people are able to read and full of legal words and term that only a lawyer knows waht it mean. Many words have a popular or common meaning, but this same word has a different meaning in legal language. Have you ever read a contract ? Do you understand all the words and terms that are written ? Do you know what it means ? Probably not, unless you are a lawyer or have enough experience in contracts. You read the contract, understand something or think that you understand and the most of the contract you have no idea of what it is. You sign it and does it means that you are damned if you was cheated ?

Lawyers can put anything in tiny letters full of legal words and terms, you can sign it without knowing that you just sold your wife, your mother and your dog. Does it mean that you lost your wife, your mother and your dog just because you signed the contract ?

The Law is not in this way, you don't lost your wife, your mother and your dog, because this contract had illegal clauses and has no legal value and it doesn't matter if you have signed it 100 times, it have no legal value.

This is the theory, in practice cheating works very well. You sign a contract without knowing what you have signed, some days later comes someone of the comapny to take your wife, your mother and your dog. You ask what it is and they reply that you sined the contract, show you your signature in the contract and a letter from a lwayer full of legal words and terms telling you if you don't give your wife, your mother and your dog you will go to jail. You give up because you believe if you have signed you cannot do anything else that obbey what you have signed. You have a false view of what is the Law and you do not your rights.

Of course, if you defend your rights, you will know that what you have signed has no legal value, you continue to have your wife, your mother and your dog and the company will not be able to do anything against you. Even you can sue the company and get some money.

But all work fine for companies, in 10,000 people only one knows the Law and his rights and 9,999 believes that the EULA is the law. The company won 9,999 wifes, mothers and dog and only in one case it didn't work. Good business.

You have a profit of billions and time time you have to pay only some millions whenthe scheme failed.

Quote - > Quote - People keep saying: "buy the software". You don't buy software: you buy a licence to use the software.

It would be if it was a leasing contract or a lending contract, but is not. It is a sale and you are the only and legitime owner of what you purchased, unless you live under Communist laws where you own nothing.

Complete and utter bollocks.

Quote - Specifically, in English law at least, a EULA cannot grant rights to commit an illegal act, (in your example, murder) nor can it enforce an illegal condition on the purchaser. Since contracts can be challenged in court, and to this date a standard EULA for software has never been successfully challenged, your comparison is invalid, not a fair comparison and quite a bit silly.

I shall change a little my EULA:

"You cannot use a knife from SicoKnivesCorp to kill people"

Now you are in your home and a bandit invade your home and attack your wife, you take the purchased knife and kill the bandit. You have violated the EULA and so, you are a criminal.

The Constitution grants you the right of self defense, and you have used your Constitutional right. But the EULA denies you this right. As the Constitution is above any EULA, this EULA clause has no legal value and you are not a criminal.

And one more:

The begining of all this story and analyzing only wwhat was written, Kaihean bought in auction a computer and the computer came with Poser, other softwares and all the disks.

Someone purchased Poser, installed it and the lost his computer ending in auction, Poser changed hands, this violates the EULA and then it was sold, one more EULA violation. Who took away Poser from the licensed user commit a crime, who was encharged of the auction commit a crime again and who has purchased is also a criminal. One word: RIDICULOUS

Wrong Kaweki...

Actually... under those circumstances it wou.....zZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.......snyx...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Quote - > Quote - Specifically, in English law at least, a EULA cannot grant rights to commit an illegal act, (in your example, murder) nor can it enforce an illegal condition on the purchaser. Since contracts can be challenged in court, and to this date a standard EULA for software has never been successfully challenged, your comparison is invalid, not a fair comparison and quite a bit silly.

I shall change a little my EULA:

"You cannot use a knife from SicoKnivesCorp to kill people"

Now you are in your home and a bandit invade your home and attack your wife, you take the purchased knife and kill the bandit. You have violated the EULA and so, you are a criminal.

The Constitution grants you the right of self defense, and you have used your Constitutional right. But the EULA denies you this right. As the Constitution is above any EULA, this EULA clause has no legal value and you are not a criminal.

What constitution? The US one doesn't apply in my country. In any case, a violation of a EULA is not a criminal act, it's a civil matter. You should also consider a EULA wouldn't apply to a physical object such as a kitchen knife. That is a sale of a genuine, physical object as opposed to the license to use a piece of software. Any rights you have regarding the knife would be covered in the warranty but would not supercede rights in law. Likewise, no EULA can take away your rights in law, nor make you liable for any actions beyond the scope of its original intent. Anyhow, I'm done discussing this matter with you because you wheel out this old crap every time the matter of copyright comes up and hey, you're always wrong. Since I know you're an intelligent guy, the only conclusion I can come to is you're trolling and, as per the TOS here, I ain't feeding the trolls.

Quote - What constitution? The US one doesn't apply in my country.

Well, well, well, it's only a theoretical discussion plenty of abstractions and exagerated examples. In practice know reading in Russian can help in what you click and of course, not the EULA

Quote - know you're an intelligent guy, the only conclusion I can come to is you're trolling

Can you reach to an agreement ? Is supposed that trolls are stupid, so am I intelligent or stupid ? I cannot be both at the same time.

Thats about enough.