Quote - I mean, we have heard this tune before after all - when Apollo came out, when Miki came out, etc.  BTW, I'm not naysaying here...

Yep. Okay.

Quote - The GPL is very restrictive; Using the example of a figure, since conforming clothing uses the figure's grouping and rigging, any conforming clothing for a GPL licensed figure would also be GPL licensed...

Something akin to the "Classpath exception" could be used to avoid that problem.

Anyway the GPL and other software licenses are generally a poor fit for none code things (q.v. MakeHuman)
The CC liceneses are a better fit, but some thought is always going to be required to best match some existing license with the precise desired intent (and is the reason why some groups erroneously create their own).

Truthfully I didnt see anything wrong with v4.  Then I got interested int he V4~WM initiative at poser place.. while waiting for that to get going I started playing with Antonia.  Even before the weightmapping I was really shocked at how much I could suddenly see wrong with v4.  When weightmapping on Antonia was dome and released and we moved on to v4 it was a real challenge for me to summon the enthusiasm I had for the Antonia Project.   

I used v4 for years... Antonia for a couple of months.  

Is antonia going to rule the figure world?  no.  The reality is that in order to capture a lot of the market she'd need the polys to do the kind of sculpting that BH did on Anastasia for Alyson2.  But whats on the market now is not the depths of what is possible.  Both antonia are good enough and inexpensive enough that they will provide a valid option for content creators to jump aboard, and I think many of them will.  Afterall If someone creates a KILLER outfit for Antonia all anyone has to do if they want to use it is DL the free figure.. maybe pay the chump change for Advanced morphs.. very low cost of entry.  Anastasia is likewise pretty affordable.

Quote - "The same argument applies to DS4. Or do you think it's just Poser users who are slow to upgrade to the newest/greatest piece of software?"

True, however, you can get behind the weight map curtain for free with DS. One can argue about how useable the free version is, but anyone who has the system to run it can get a good idea whether the technology is something they want to invest in. I don't even see a demo of P9 on the SM Poser page. In either case, some users (perhaps quite a few) are not going to upgrade either product unless they see a pretty big reason to do so. If you want to use the OS metaphor, look at how long XP has lasted, even discounting the Vista debacle.

Genesis may be cool but not necessarily enough for many to abandon the traditional discreet figure model. Weight mapping may be even less compelling. Consumers don't likely care how much easier it is to rig for. They only care about the end result. Yes the figures may bend better, but outside the cognescenti, amongst those using mainly stock poses and perhaps having a less critical eye, I'm not sure how much of a selling point that is. It seems to me that the people most likely to upgrade primarily for weight mapping are those who were dissatisfied enough with V4's flexibility to have already gravitated to Antonia (standard), Apollo etc. for their reputed superiority in that regard - or who have tried all of the V4 joint fixes and found them wanting. Personally, I would see soft body dynamics as a much bigger must have. 

Maybe Antonia2, if such a thing is ever contemplated, will have enough polys to allow better sculpting possibilities.

Sorry to interrupt the discussion of Android devices and Linux. :)

I consider myself likely to be a fairly average end-user: I'm not going to make any content, and I'm probably not going to create my own morphs, or even modify existing ones. So I will rely on what merchants provide for me, and I will judge the available figures and add-ons by what appears in promo images and galleries.

So far, Anastasia appears to have a more realistic (albeit unattainably "perfect") set of body morphs than the morphed versions of Antonia. But Anastasia's face, particularly her lack of deep eyelids, makes her less than useful for me. Antonio seems to have a much more useable face, but her body morphs don't look particularly human to me.

As a result, I won't use either one of them until more base content (face morphs for Anastasia that give her eyelids, for instance) arrives.

I emphasize that my views on these figures are based entirely on renders I have seen. That is, after all, the only way I can judge a figure before I've purchased it.

I'm waiting to see what happens. I'm probably not alone. But I will say this: the more a figure and related content appear in galleries in various sites, the more likely I am to want it.

Quote - Anyway the GPL and other software licenses are generally a poor fit for none code things (q.v. MakeHuman)

Agreed... which breaks the analogy, sadly. I ran into this problem 12 years ago, writing curriculum that I wanted to give to the world for free. 

==

Yep. Okay.

Seriously - not naysaying at all. I'm telling you that you're going to have to step your game up.

I mean you have to Sell it.

Right now, Antonia is like the Windows Phone 7 of meshes - it has potential, does what the other big figures do, but it is up against one hell of an entrenched set of vertical markets. 

That's the landscape. Now do something about it. Forge it into your own. Push it beyond the limits. Make it stand out. 

If you can't cut it, then we can all sit around here five years later when Next Big Thing comes out, and we can add one more figure name to the roll call of Island Of Misfit Meshes. It'll come up when some other idealistic people with a grudge against DAZ proclaim how their new figure will take down Victoria. 

Now get to work... time is wasting.

I'm all for improvements and whatnot.

I truly hope that Antonia would get a good boost -- give all the Vikkies a run for her money.

I cant really say that I agree with that.  I would say that Anastasia offers a more detailed morph.  Not exactly more realistic.  Perhaps if photos we see in magazines and whatnot were realistic.  The fact is that those "unattainably perfect" shots we see of models and what not are heavily edited and in themselves are not overly 'realistic'.. Stylized and Idealized would probably be a better description.  Dont get me wrong, I love the morph and BH did an amazing job, but she is really only as realistic as any other pinup poster girl that you ever see.  Much like alice and previous GNDs, which I also loved, but never expect to see any biological examples that come close to matching.

I think I do get your point though, it sure would be nice to see Antonia with the sculpting you see in Anastasia's ankles, calves and back.  

Quote - I consider myself likely to be a fairly average end-user: I'm not going to make any content, and I'm probably not going to create my own morphs, or even modify existing ones. So I will rely on what merchants provide for me, and I will judge the available figures and add-ons by what appears in promo images and galleries.

So far, Anastasia appears to have a more realistic (albeit unattainably "perfect") set of body morphs than the morphed versions of Antonia. But Anastasia's face, particularly her lack of deep eyelids, makes her less than useful for me. Antonio seems to have a much more useable face, but her body morphs don't look particularly human to me.

As a result, I won't use either one of them until more base content (face morphs for Anastasia that give her eyelids, for instance) arrives.

I emphasize that my views on these figures are based entirely on renders I have seen. That is, after all, the only way I can judge a figure before I've purchased it.

I'm waiting to see what happens. I'm probably not alone. But I will say this: the more a figure and related content appear in galleries in various sites, the more likely I am to want it.

These are fantasy girls. Of course they dont look like a gal who just rolled out of bed in her jammies (not a transparent babydoll nightie), her hair a mess, and her makleup not on yet. You can make 'em into that, if that's what you want, but I am guessing it's not what the majority of the market wants... Even the females among us like their 3D girls gorgeous.

Because most of us (with exceptions) aren't looking to duplicate real life, we're looking to escape from real life for awhile.

Quote - Seriously - not naysaying at all. I'm telling you that you're going to have to step your game up. I mean you have to Sell it.

Right now, Antonia is like the Windows Phone 7 of meshes - it has potential, does what the other big figures do, but it is up against one hell of an entrenched set of vertical markets. 

That's the landscape. Now do something about it. Forge it into your own. Push it beyond the limits. Make it stand out. 

If you can't cut it, then we can all sit around here five years later when Next Big Thing comes out, and we can add one more figure name to the roll call of Island Of Misfit Meshes. It'll come up when some other idealistic people with a grudge against DAZ proclaim how their new figure will take down Victoria. 

Now get to work... time is wasting.

I find this encounter interesting. I'm taken to task by mods for being "unfriendly" but this? I guess you're exempt. Interesting. :glare:

I'm not paid for any of my work on this. Unlike the other figure creator mentioned in this thread, I do not do this for a living. I'm involved in this project because basically people are keen to see this figure succeed, Poser succeed and that is my whole motivation. I will gain nothing from this but the satisfaction that people have enjoyed what we've been able to do. And it's really important to note that I'm but a tiny bit-player: the key people are the real movers and shakers that have made Antonia who she is, made this project what it is. You probably know them. They are the big names: I'm nobody. All I do is shaders, and even that, with HUGE help from someone who actually understands shaders. I'm just transcribing.

Antonia led the way in telling the Poser market that figures for Poser don't have to come from a so-called "established source". If people like Antonia, it will be on her merits, not because I've crammed her down their throats.

She proved a point.

To some.

And yeah, okay, so maybe I don't meet the criteria of "keep it friendly". Neither did "Get to work - time is wasting".

Sheesh.

It's very easy for those that have never done any content making to keep asking for content to make things popular.

Get a modelling program and have a go for yourself to encourage others to do so.

The Digital Tailor series is a great start, so those that want others to make content, have a go for yourselves.

All the best.

LROG

"I'm taken to task by mods for being "unfriendly"

Hmmm, don't see it myself - seriously enthusiastic cheerleading maybe but unfriendly, no, unless I missed something. OTOH, everyone knows how potentially volatile anything approaching this topic is. You had your own thread locked for a time after someone took exception to the mere mention of another figure. You had no control over that of course, but if mods are getting a bit proactive I suppose I can understand.

By the same token, I think 'get to work' was meant in a jovial way, but he's a penguin who knows. 'Don't pay no mind to the boys mam, they wuz jest funning'. Speaking only for myself - after a point, ‘Rah! Rah!’ may incline my inner skeptic to point out practical considerations, historical precedent etc. Nothing personal, though at times, I’m sure it may seem that some of us are trying to wash out your parade. I’m reminded of the Mary Tyler Moore episode where she stood up to her boss over something and he said ‘You’ve got spunk.’ She blushes at being flattered and after a beat, he says, “I hate spunk!” Actually spunk is great, especially in the service of a good cause which you have, but maybe just a teensy tweak on the brightness control :-)

 “…Antonia led the way in telling the Poser market that figures for Poser don't have to come from a so-called "established source".”

At the risk (certainty) of redundancy, Dina V., Sara, Maya Doll et al. A good example I think of enthusiasm overcoming reality a bit. It’s kind of like DAZ calling Victoria the ‘World’s Premier 3D figure’ sic, or whatever, except they probably have a more valid argument. Perhaps you mean that looking back from some future vantage point, Antonia will be viewed as the figure that yada, yada, but in the present, it seems odd. You’ve got a solid product, the time is right, you’ve got the technical & communication skills – teach more preach less. I know you’re passionate about the whole ‘controlling our destiny’ thing but I suspect some people may want more concrete stuff e.g. can she (remapped) take V4 textures?. Give 5 reasons to go with your figure besides free and not DAZ. Show side by side comparisons of her superiority to V4 in those areas etc. – rinse repeat. That’s just my layman’s opinion.

Kupa posted a link to an Anastasia pic (in the ‘new life’ thread) which brought to mind (was it Wolf's?) point. If one of your bigger selling points is bend-ability then you might consider making a big run at Renderotica. It's a natural market and could generate a lot of enthusiasm. Most of the regulars there probably go other places as well and can help spread the Gospel. There are at least a few other sites that are more primarily erotically inclined as well. Get some folks who feel comfortable in that environment and work that angle. Is there aJapanstrategy? Poser is obviously very popular there and there are extremely talented folks there like Mamomamo (http://mamomamo.candypop.jp/Freestuff/index.html) who would be great assets if they got onboard. Are there any Japanese speakers on the A-Team? Merely thoughts here, not orders or directives, and not meant in an unkind way.

Quote - I cant really say that I agree with that.  I would say that Anastasia offers a more detailed morph.  Not exactly more realistic.  Perhaps if photos we see in magazines and whatnot were realistic.  The fact is that those "unattainably perfect" shots we see of models and what not are heavily edited and in themselves are not overly 'realistic'.. Stylized and Idealized would probably be a better description.  Dont get me wrong, I love the morph and BH did an amazing job, but she is really only as realistic as any other pinup poster girl that you ever see.  Much like alice and previous GNDs, which I also loved, but never expect to see any biological examples that come close to matching.

I think I do get your point though, it sure would be nice to see Antonia with the sculpting you see in Anastasia's ankles, calves and back.  

 

Agree. "Realistic" was perhaps the wrong word. What I mean is that the Antonia morphs I've seen are not, as you say, detailed enough. She looks very soft to me, even when skinny or muscular. Something about that strikes me as not quite right, even in a world in which we're accustomed to heavily photoshopped fashion shots. She doesn't appear to have, well, many bones under her flesh. The advanced morphs also seem more stylized than anatomical.

BH's work on Alyson is truly amazing. But I've always had a strong dislike of Alyson's face. Maybe she reminds me of someone, and the resemblance persists, even heavily morphed. ;)

Quote - It's very easy for those that have never done any content making to keep asking for content to make things popular.

Get a modelling program and have a go for yourself to encourage others to do so.

The Digital Tailor series is a great start, so those that want others to make content, have a go for yourselves.

All the best.

LROG

If everyone made their own content, the marketplace would not exist.

I pay other people to use skills I don't possess because that sort of division of labor is extremely efficient. I do not have the time or the desire to model, and I never will. People like me drive the market. You may not particularly respect us, but we do help successful merchants pay the bills.

Quote - > Quote - Nobody is asking for Linux.

Android is Linux; it is just not GNU/Linux which is what most are refering to when they speak of 'Linux'. 

I 've used GNU/Linux for years on my main desktop machine, but I think that Windows 7 has taken the wind out of desktop Linux.  I've been using Win 7 on my render machine for a few months, and it seems to be very nearly as stable as Windows 2000, which I wish MS had just improved rather than replacing with XP...

Umm, Android used the linux kernel, which is - after all - open source, but has been split off since 2010.  It is not linux, unless one ignores the libraries, API and development tools specifically built for, and incorporated in, the android schema.

Klebnor

If everyone made their own content, the marketplace would not exist.
I pay other people to use skills I don't possess because that sort of division of labor is extremely efficient. I do not have the time or the desire to model, and I never will. People like me drive the market. You may not particularly respect us, but we do help successful merchants pay the bills.

There is always time to learn new skills.

All the best.

LROG

"A good example I think of enthusiasm overcoming reality a bit.....
Give 5 reasons to go with your figure besides free and not DAZ........."

Well said sir!!

And Tom(Peng) is Quite correct as well.

The "poserverse" is replete with many ,many forgotten desiccated husk's of Failed "movements (Figures)" that were built around the presumptuous notion that people will embrace it based soley anti-DAZ/Vicky sentiment.

Cheers

"There is always time to learn new skills."

Not for every one
nor is there always Desire or basic Acumen to do so.
thats the reality of it.

Cheers

People will use what they want based on their own decisions on why they use it.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - I'm not paid for any of my work on this. Unlike the other figure creator mentioned in this thread, I do not do this for a living. I'm involved in this project because basically people are keen to see this figure succeed, Poser succeed and that is my whole motivation.

If you want it to succeed, you're going to have to work at it, because it won't magically grow itself. If you're hoping for some sort of inagined swelling of rebellion against a product or a company to sell it for you, you're liable to be in for a disappointment.  

You have a very small window of opportunity until the whole G thing is adapted to Poser. Once that closes, so does the opportunity. 

Quote - They are the big names: I'm nobody. All I do is shaders, and even that, with HUGE help from someone who actually understands shaders. I'm just transcribing.

You know? Even the smallest player can be critical in making the biggest contributions. It's all about attitude, just like the lowly brick-maker who sees and wonders at the cathedral he's making - even while waiting for the very first bricks to finish baking.

Wasting your time in here arguing over how good your project is or how evil/bad/whatever someone else's is... and for mere and ethereal debating points?

Those are distractions, and they tend to pull the mind and the eye away from the prize. They hamper discovery, and burn creativity that can be put to use elsewhere. 

Quote - She proved a point.

That someone else can make a mesh with better joints? Okay... but tell me: who is actually going to care, especially if it becomes some neglected and ignored-by-the-world project a year or two from now? Unless you put the efforts in now, and work to make it bigger and better on its own merits, it won't mean squat to anyone but you and a small handful of people 5 years from now. 

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, I'm not a friendly guy, but the reason is clear enough, even (I trust) to the mods:  I'm trying to motivate you. To push you into getting on the ball and helping to build a better product. To stop wasting electrons in pointless debate (and stop feeding the grudge-happy among us), and to put that energy where it belongs... in the project.

It's a good start, but it has a lot of work left before it can hope to compete. You have, as mentioned, a short span of opportunity to position it where it can become something bigger than you could ever hope. Once the competition slides into Poser with its latest and greatest, you're not going to have that opportunity any more.

Thus, time is wasting.

there are literally millions of real-life equivalents.
have society's views been so skewed due to the recent fat epidemic that we are now calling someone fit 'unattainable' (and 'anorexic', etc)?

not meaning to derail the discussion or anything but this happens to be one of my major pet peeves.  the 'Anastasia body' is far from unattainable. if this is regarded as an 'unattainable body' nowadays then i weep for society.

"So far, Anastasia appears to have a more realistic (albeit unattainably "perfect") set of body morphs than the morphed versions of Antonia. But Anastasia's face, particularly her lack of deep eyelids, makes her less than useful for me."

i have no idea what you mean about 'deep eyelids' but if you can explain them to me ill see what i can do about including a morph with the custom Expressions morph pack im about to release.

cheers,
-gabriel*

Frankly, there are a lot of ppl that don't give a rats ass about modeling or rigging. That's why there are ppl that do that sort of thing. Vendors. Not everyone is a vendor nor aspires to be one or to create content.

As for Anastasia and her resemblence to "reality": I used to be built more or less like her in my younger days - perhaps not quite a muscular, but as for shape she's me...lol. Thin across the waist, ample ass, somewhat shorter legs...:P.

And we REALLY don't need to get in Antonia/Vicky arguments again do we? Jesus H. Christ that is getting SO old.

Laurie

Those that don't want to learn new things are doomed to live in the past.

All the best.

LROG

"Those that don't want to learn new things are doomed to live in the past."

So where can we View your Poser Character animation Reel??
And do you write your own Python scripts
or  do you "Depend on others" to provide them for you??

Cheers

I don't have one as yet, and the same for writing python.

But it wouldn't stop me having a go when I'm ready.

I'm always willing to learn new things.

All the best.

LROG

 Absolutely right Gabe:

A few minutes perusing the photography of member "Fand" on this site-will show you more than one woman with that body type-and head shape as well. One model- "Marlo" has a similarly proportioned face and head.

Quote - "

there are literally millions of real-life equivalents.
have society's views been so skewed due to the recent fat epidemic that we are now calling someone fit 'unattainable' (and 'anorexic', etc)?

not meaning to derail the discussion or anything but this happens to be one of my major pet peeves.  the 'Anastasia body' is far from unattainable. if this is regarded as an 'unattainable body' nowadays then i weep for society.

 

"So far, Anastasia appears to have a more realistic (albeit unattainably "perfect") set of body morphs than the morphed versions of Antonia. But Anastasia's face, particularly her lack of deep eyelids, makes her less than useful for me."

i have no idea what you mean about 'deep eyelids' but if you can explain them to me ill see what i can do about including a morph with the custom Expressions morph pack im about to release.

cheers,
-gabriel*

 

I definitly apologize if I have offended.  I'm not trying to suggest that Anastasia is unrealistic in the same way that v4 is unrealistic.  Perhaps I went into more detail than is fitting as I dont own anastasia and have only had an opportunity to play with her for a few minuts at my friends house.  

The point I was trying to make, which probably got lost in my rambling (as is oftent he case) is that Anastasia is only more realistic in the details of her sculpting than Antonia.  I dont think you can say antonias shape is less realistic, only less detailed.

Again apologies if I offended.  I have the utmost respect for the work you have done with her.

Quote - "I would say that Anastasia offers a more detailed morph.  Not exactly more realistic.  Perhaps if photos we see in magazines and whatnot were realistic.  The fact is that those "unattainably perfect" shots we see of models and what not are heavily edited and in themselves are not overly 'realistic'.. Stylized and Idealized would probably be a better description.  Dont get me wrong, I love the morph and BH did an amazing job, but she is really only as realistic as any other pinup poster girl that you ever see.  Much like alice and previous GNDs, which I also loved, but never expect to see any biological examples that come close to matching."

there are literally millions of real-life equivalents.
have society's views been so skewed due to the recent fat epidemic that we are now calling someone fit 'unattainable' (and 'anorexic', etc)?

not meaning to derail the discussion or anything but this happens to be one of my major pet peeves.  the 'Anastasia body' is far from unattainable. if this is regarded as an 'unattainable body' nowadays then i weep for society.

 

"So far, Anastasia appears to have a more realistic (albeit unattainably "perfect") set of body morphs than the morphed versions of Antonia. But Anastasia's face, particularly her lack of deep eyelids, makes her less than useful for me."

i have no idea what you mean about 'deep eyelids' but if you can explain them to me ill see what i can do about including a morph with the custom Expressions morph pack im about to release.

cheers,
-gabriel*

 

Quote - "A good example I think of enthusiasm overcoming reality a bit.....
Give 5 reasons to go with your figure besides free and not DAZ........."

First, you sound like DAZ was the only alternative, Vic is not.  She's one.  Only one.

Second, Antonia does not require me to use an unfamiliar, unintuitive, clunky and unstable software, as does the latest from daz

THird, she's different, not just "another vicky clone."

Forth, while someone has stated they use the 3d as an escape from reality, and they may well be in the majority, there are some that do not, we prefer reality to fantasy. 

Fifth, Antonia bends better than Vicky four, I don't know about V5 as I don't and won't have her. 

I have exactly one "paid for" morph of V4, and never have or probably never will use that.  I have one freebie morph for V4, and I use the face morph, and not the body.  Then, I also seldom use even that one morph, the basic figure isn't what I want anyhow. 

Before I hear the argument, "Where are all the renders using other figures?", I rather think most people are like me.  There are only a limited number posting renders, I don't post mine as they're for me, not for someone else.  They satisfy what I want to depict, not what someone else thinks should be depicted.  Nor with figures that someone else thinks would be "more appropriate", because they are not.  If I think Allyson suits my purpose better, that's what I use.  Period.  Only a few people will ever see my renders, if they like them, fine.  If they don't, still fine.

Quote -
So where can we View your Poser Character animation Reel??

Which makes a difference how?  Show me you flight log in engineless aircraft.  I had one, but it's about as pertinant to this topic as you bringing up your animations.  Sure, has to deal with poser, at about the one percent level.  Or, not significant.

Quote - > Quote - "A good example I think of enthusiasm overcoming reality a bit.....

Give 5 reasons to go with your figure besides free and not DAZ........."

First, you sound like DAZ was the only alternative, Vic is not.  She's one.  Only one.

Second, Antonia does not require me to use an unfamiliar, unintuitive, clunky and unstable software, as does the latest from daz

THird, she's different, not just "another vicky clone."

Forth, while someone has stated they use the 3d as an escape from reality, and they may well be in the majority, there are some that do not, we prefer reality to fantasy. 

Fifth, Antonia bends better than Vicky four, I don't know about V5 as I don't and won't have her. 

I have exactly one "paid for" morph of V4, and never have or probably never will use that.  I have one freebie morph for V4, and I use the face morph, and not the body.  Then, I also seldom use even that one morph, the basic figure isn't what I want anyhow. 

Before I hear the argument, "Where are all the renders using other figures?", I rather think most people are like me.  There are only a limited number posting renders, I don't post mine as they're for me, not for someone else.  They satisfy what I want to depict, not what someone else thinks should be depicted.  Nor with figures that someone else thinks would be "more appropriate", because they are not.  If I think Allyson suits my purpose better, that's what I use.  Period.  Only a few people will ever see my renders, if they like them, fine.  If they don't, still fine.

Unfortunately, that's not five since two of your reasons use "not DAZ", which the person you quoted asked for reasons besides. Then two tries to compare V4, when you admit you barely use. It really doesn't matter what figure you stand behind, you just need to believe in it enough so when people ask you these questions, you can soundly answer them.

nice.. we can quickly turn this thread into a brawl too

OK let us keep this constructive shall we?

@Gabriel Blackhearted

I absolutely love the realism you show in your render.

There is however one Alyson leftover that would need a corection.
The torso is too high. And that is an Alyson left over.

One could argue about the breast hight.
Personally I think they are still too high on the chest.

An average woman has her "sorry for using the correct words" nipples exactly at he same "altitude = height" as the middle of the upper arm.

Unsupported breasts are at he same height as the middle of the upper arm.

Supported breasts are about at the level you show them in your render.

Now if you reduce the Y of the abdomen-waist groups, the torso would be more natural in Y.

But I love what you made of Alyson.

Greetings, Tony

Quote - Unfortunately, that's not five since two of your reasons use "not DAZ", which the person you quoted asked for reasons besides. Then two tries to compare V4, when you admit you barely use. It really doesn't matter what figure you stand behind, you just need to believe in it enough so when people ask you these questions, you can soundly answer them.

Unsubscribed.

Quote - "A good example I think of enthusiasm overcoming reality a bit.....
Give 5 reasons to go with your figure besides free and not DAZ.......

1.  She's far more realistic than fashion model Vicky.

2.  The available morphs and characters give me a more realistic character to work with.

3.  She moves and bends more realisticly than any figure I've used.

4.  She has weight mapped capabilities

5.  The people around Antonia are more friendly, and more dedicated to Poser than others I've encountered.  I like their work ethic and pride in their product.

I do not want to upset anyone but I am really surprised that so much here appears to be black or white and no grey area.  For example the idea you either model or you puchase or do neither and stay in the past.

I buy a great deal from venders but as my time is limited I usually ask two questions.  1. can I model it myself and 2. How long will it take me.  As I am yet to fully retire, I am in the lucky position that I have a pension and still work part time (I semi retired early after I was made redundant)  beacuse of this I will sometimes buy items that would take me a week to build if the price is right.  Yet I also purchased many for the digital tailor tutorials as I am keen to learn new skills.  Two years ago I had never modelled anything and I had never opened the material room.  Now thanks to many on this forum I play in the material room on a daily basis.

So in my case there is time to learn and I have a will to do so, others may not have the time or the interest to do so but if they enjoy their 3D renders, so what.  I for one can never see me creating my own figure, not because I don't want to but because I doubt I will ever own such skills or have enough time to gain them.  I admire those that do have the skills I am happy to use such figures if they suit my ideas and I don't mind where they came from.

I also do a lot of fantasy and Sci-Fi work that does not mean I do not want reality, or more accurately, I want the figures to look believable.  

Looks like I don't like either the white of black camp so I will stay in the grey camp, although I am not sure even just how grey the camp is.

""Which makes a difference how?  Show me you flight log in engineless aircraft. "

You miss the point entirely or you have not read any of the thread before my post that you just quoted,

"Those that don't want to learn new things are doomed to live in the past."

"It's very easy for those that have never done any content making to keep asking for content to make things popular.

There was obviously the implication in those  posts that those users who have not learned to model and create their own Content are somehow failing themselves just because others have learned  & chosen to  do so.

My point  is that not everyone has the desire to model content and we should not berate/belittle them for this.

just as I (in realty)  should not expect every poser user to animate characters just because I have chosen to do so
or write their own python scripts Like PhilC.

Cheers

Interesting, I didn't berate anyone, I just said that those that don't want to learn new things will be doomed to live in the past.

Many start off as just users, then they want to go that bit further etc. and become content makers. These people have taken the time to learn a few things.

I have learnt so many things due to the DT series and quite a lot of things that have made my content making a lot easier.

I've always encouraged people to have a go at things as there is a lot of people that think they couldn't do this or that.

With the  right tools and instructions, most people can produce something.

You asked me to show you an animation reel but now you say you don't expect every Poser user to do so because you do. So why post that part anyway if you feel that way.

I don't expect expect others to do something they don't want to, but I will always enourage and help those that want to learn how to do so.

All the best.

LROG

1. Antonia is not overloaded with JCMs and ERCs to compensate for poor mesh topology and  forcing 15 year old rigging practices onto everyone, making for a far lighter memory load per character (the weightmapped version has almost no JCMs at all).

2. The rig has 'helper bones' in breasts, hips, and head, adding controls in areas that tradionally have been either ignored or glossed over with morphs that tend to deform the mesh if not used carefully. Plus additional bones (most notably the arch of the foot and mid spine region) that improve bending.

3. As the figure is under creative commons, those who make still have the rights to their work, yet those who -want- to make are free to play and able to distribute without a great deal of worry about legal issues; something not possible when dealing with corporate IP.

4. The character in question has different proportions, rigging, and weightmapping, so when animated there is a decided difference in motion behavior, which matches the fact that no two humans move alike. Variance prevents viewers 'seeing the same figure moving exactly the same way' itis.

5. The very fact that little of the Antonia figure follows patterns that users somehow feel are 'set in stone'. Differences in posing behavior, UV mapping, shader setup, rigging behavior, body proportions, etc, all force the user to deviate from normal, mostly unchanging patterns of the last decade. Just like turning an object on its side can make it look like a different object, breaking patterns, while not comfortable to those who simply want click and render ease, can give those who want something else a more powerful figure to use.

"You asked me to show you an animation reel but now you say you don't expect every Poser user to do so because you do. So why post that part anyway if you feel that way."

Honestly pagan Im with you on the 'modeling your own point "of view.

As a modelor myself I sort of Pity those who have to come begging in the forums  for something as simple as a
"Picnic table" prop when it is so easy to learn to model something like that.

But I understand that many are not going to
ever create any original Models,animations or Python scripts so I see no point in browbeating them over it.

Just as you & I Clearly have not learned to "do it all "ourselves.

Cheers  

Quote - > Quote - "A good example I think of enthusiasm overcoming reality a bit.....

Give 5 reasons to go with your figure besides free and not DAZ.......

1.  She's far more realistic than fashion model Vicky.

2.  The available morphs and characters give me a more realistic character to work with.

3.  She moves and bends more realisticly than any figure I've used.

4.  She has weight mapped capabilities

5.  The people around Antonia are more friendly, and more dedicated to Poser than others I've encountered.  I like their work ethic and pride in their product.

A much better argument for a character you stand behind, and that's all I was saying.

Agree, sometimes nececity is the mother of invention.

I wanted a Jill Valantine outfit, wasn't one around at the time so I had a go. Took a little time to get the bodice right, but I learnt a lot from it, mistakes and all.

The problem with modelling is that people try to do something way to advanced to start with.

Start small, take small steps and you want to learn more s you becomemore interested.

Try to make a whole city for your first product and your going to be disapointed and possibly give up.

The main thing is to look at things in a different way. It may look like a complicted itemoutfitbuilding, but think of it as little shapes. Squares, shperes, lines etc. and all of a sudden the fog lifts and you start thinking, I can do that!!!!

A little trick for people to try the next time they are out and about. Look at things and break them down into small sections.

A wharehouse  wall, just an oblong with square bits for windows etc.

A manhole cover, just a squashed down cylinder.

As you cna see, these complicated things are nothing more than shapes.

Try it and see what you think.

All the best.

LROG

thanks*

"One could argue about the breast hight.
Personally I think they are still too high on the chest.
An average woman has her "sorry for using the correct words" nipples exactly at he same "altitude = height" as the middle of the upper arm."

who says she has to be average?  pff. 

but this is a matter of preference:  i happen to like smaller breasts that are, as Bob Seger put it, 'way up firm and high'.  but for those that dont, as you dial the BreastSize up, they sag in proportion to their weight :P

But as I said : breastheight is subjective to taste.

Ps, Your figure is leaning back a little, helping in the lifting :-)
And the picture is taken from below.

All in all, vey good job on Alyson. Magnificent.

Well, that's three women out of 3,500,000,000.

Must be true then.

Quote -

All in all, vey good job on Alyson. Magnificent.

 

I do hope this point is not lost in any of the comments made about Anastasia.  Sometimes it seems so obvious as to go without saying.. but truly.. AWESOME work!

YES awsome work, indeed.

Sorry.
I searched, but only because I did not want to post nudes.
Just unsupported breasts in rather loose dresses.
.
And yes, I choose rather well known women. (Sorry If I offended someone)
I did not want to post "real" models either.

"Real models" never look like "real women do".

"Real models" are also "made more of plastic" then out of flesh.

Just some reference pictures.