Quote -
You miss the point entirely or you have not read any of the thread before my post that you just quoted,

I do some modeling, but not figures or clothing, more architecture.  Mixed results, BTW, there's a lot I don't put up anywhere or show anyone else.  THose Euww!  moments that I tend to bury.  In that respect, and I've followed this since the beginning, I lean heavily on the work of those that can model clothing, and other human accessories.  LROG may be correct that it can be learned, he just forgot the qualifiers.  Those being, an idea of how every aspect of the clothing should be, how it should drape, where it should be snug, where not so snug, and the knack of knowing when it looks good instead of just a bag covering a figure.  Part of my making a living required that I do mechanical drafting, usually with just a drafting machine, and I have no problems with doing that.  However, how many people want to try to figure out something like a transmission case and draw it, complete with all the holes, bosses, ribs and other parts that are absolutely necessary.  I don't try to encourage someone that doesn't have that as part of their nature to do it, it's usually easier to start from scratch than have to work with someone elses mistakes.

Although you all can not see the last few posts that were made....

I'm serious about the fighting and arguments, posts will be deleted and warnings will be given.

"Second, Antonia does not require me to use an unfamiliar, unintuitive, clunky and unstable software, as does the latest from daz"

Please stop saying this. I'm sorry that DAZ Studio does not work for you, but that does not make it unstable, unintuitive, or clunky.

SnowS

we know where this road goes..

point made and challenged..

can we drop it or should we just ask this thread be locked now as we all know exactly where this discussion leads.

Honestly there really should be an auto-lock after a day or so on any thread referencing anything to do with daz products.. that seems to be how long it takes for everything to be said (again) .. after that its just fights breaking out

 Kim

Do ever feel like a playground monitor in a schoolyard? :-) 

Vitters/ Gabe- You are BOTH correct-  and vitters- Anastasia has morphs to make her fit your description of an average women. There are many different forms of a woman- I have seen many like Antonia-and quite a few like Anastasia. Anastasia is clearly a YOUNG woman- you posted mostly people 40 and above. FYI V3 make an EXCELLENT 35 year old

 Note: I bought-and am IMPRESSED with Anastasia-so I might be biased! My point-there is NO need to have a ONE figure fits all.There might even be reasons to actually USE V4 preferebly weight mapped-or fixed with some of the current products from "Meipe and..." cant remember the second name.

Quote - Although you all can not see the last few posts that were made....

I'm serious about the fighting and arguments, posts will be deleted and warnings will be given.

A little OT but since its been brought up... can the morphs on Anastasia lower the breast elevation without going for a larger breast look.. I think that might be what is nagging at me with her look.. not that it is a deal breaker as she is really well done... just wondering about flexibility.

despite if any of my earlier comments seemed negative (not my intent) I do have her on my "when I have money again" list.

:-) WAY OFF topic! The subject was Linux and Android- er- oh wait it was about V4!

Quote - A little OT but since its been brought up... can the morphs on Anastasia lower the breast elevation without going for a larger breast look.. I think that might be what is nagging at me with her look.. not that it is a deal breaker as she is really well done... just wondering about flexibility.

despite if any of my earlier comments seemed negative (not my intent) I do have her on my "when I have money again" list.

Quote - "Second, Antonia does not require me to use an unfamiliar, unintuitive, clunky and unstable software, as does the latest from daz"

 

Please stop saying this. I'm sorry that DAZ Studio does not work for you, but that does not make it unstable, unintuitive, or clunky.

 

SnowS

Hokay.  Stop saying it, but still believing it.  Three hangups this afternoon in two hours time requiring me to use the surge protector main switch to turn the computer off, I guess I can be forgiven for removing it.  Yeah, I know it's something I'm telling it to do it doesn't like.  But that computer is not on line, net access is reserved for this old P4 single core crunchbox.  The two are rooms apart so I ain't for putting on the sneakers to run back and forth to read something someone posted then go back and apply it.  Which is the only option available.

It's certainly understandable that you'd remove it and I would not try to convince you otherwise. If something that I used caused all that trouble, I'd toss it out too. All I'm asking is that you instead say in the future that it's unstable for you.

Thanks.

Quote -
Please stop saying this. I'm sorry that DAZ Studio does not work for you, but that does not make it unstable, unintuitive, or clunky.

 

SnowS

What makes it unfamiliar, unituitive, clunky, and unstable is the lack of documentation.  That is why I haven't sunk any money into it.  My time is valuable, even if DAZ doesn't think so.

Just sayin'.....

As a further note, DAZ has once again started yet another attempt at Documentation - DS only, the Bryce, Carrara, and Hexagon folks are out of luck (again).

I wish them the best of luck, but as they say, past is prologue.

On a related note, vis-a-vis clothing for non-V4 characters, I think everyone seems to forget that there are 80% solutions available.

I don't worry too much about clothing for any non-V4 figure because all of mine have V4's wardrobe.  WW & Xdresser work well enough for most of us & the morph tool in Poser can fix a number of small issues. I doubt I am the only person who uses them. 

And I'll repeat myself again since you apparently didn't hear me the first time. It's unfamiliar, unituitive, clunky, and unstable FOR YOU. I and many others have had no problem learning and using it without documentation. Yes, I wish it had documentation, yes I wish people didn't have problems like what Precision talked about. But to say in general that it's unituitive, clunky, and unstable software is a lie and I will repeat myself as many times as necessary to make that clear.

SnowS

Lovely image, Glitterati3D! Pedantics aside, I think this proves there is room for both V4, Anastasia AND Antonia. I prefer the latter two but now that V4 has been weight mapped and I have so much invested in her she will be staying in my runtime for a long time yet. Freedom of choice is good.

Quote - Lovely image, Glitterati3D! Pedantics aside, I think this proves there is room for both V4, Anastasia AND Antonia. I prefer the latter two but now that V4 has been weight mapped and I have so much invested in her she will be staying in my runtime for a long time yet. Freedom of choice is good.

Thank you, Janl!  Not only does V4 get a stay of execution, the weight mapping makes her fun to work with again.

Along with Antonia and other products we have even more choice.  It's an exciting time for Poser users.

On top of your points, this also puts the thread back on topic!

Even if Daz and Smith Micro manage to create the sort of compatibility that would allow Genesis (and the V5 morph) to work perfectly in Poser, there would still be a problem in that only the latest version of Poser would be able to use it. The joining of the 21st Century through the introduction of weight maps has left a great many Poser users (and potential Daz customers) in the dust. In the past, Daz could sell Victoria to a wide group consisting of everyone with Poser 5 or higher.

I'd like to know how the sales of V5 compare to earlier versions. The fact that V4 has yet to be supplanted would suggest things are not going as well as they used to.

with v4 being weight mapped (cage and phantom are doing a great job btw)

I will continue using her as WELL as Antonia, Anastasia and others when they are

weight mapped (miki3 and others in the works) it really depends on what the scene is

they're is room for all the characters and it is just nonsense to think that one figure is 

going to corner the poser market anytime soon we all have alot invested in these 

old(and new) characters and it always has been my thoughts  as well as others that we

should have CHOICE in the characters we use . We all have our favorites . Having said

that if people wanna use v5 they are welcome to shes not a character I am willing or want to 

support thats MY CHOICE please respect that . 

Some interesting reasons have emerged. I think some ('realism') are more subjective opinions than real selling points, but that's a matter of opinion. Others, well the fact that the folks are good folks is nice but I'm not sure how relevant that is. People deal with Microsoft and *** all the time though they may not especially like them. Also, I'm not sure that 'she's so different you're forced to learn all this stuff from a new approach' is a good mass market appeal either, rather the opposite. Remember, we're talking Vicky beater here, not appealing to the avant garde.

Other reasons would be really good when illustrated graphically. Show a graph of memory consumption with 1,2,3 Antonias & comparably configured Vickies. Not a boring screen shot of task manager but a nice professional thing. Show the better flexibility, but don't cheat - make the poses the best  for each figure. 

Weightmapping means what to me as a duffer? Better bending got that covered. If there's anything else, explain it in Joe Sixpack terms. I really don't care how much easier it makes things for content creators (ditto Creative Commons). Yes, I understand that it may enable more/better content down the road but address immediate user gratification. Think in terms of the average person who is used to following the Vickie upgrade path, specifically, the great maligned mass who don't rig, morph or do much else besides load model, pose, lights, props and render.

Anything that takes a paragraph to explain, uses terms like rigging and JCM or can't be illustrated with a picture IMO should be refined. Those things may be fine for the audience here, but again, you need to be preaching on the sidewalk not to the choir. Wow, bring me a martini and Christina Hendricks to sit on my lap and take dictation.

I'm not sure what your point is, lmcKenzie. Do you do what you are proposing to all figures before you use them? :scared:

The OP's point was that V4 is here to stay a little longer than previous Vicki figures and I agree with him because of the choices available now. I don't need any pictures or graphs to show me why I should continue to use her. Could you show me the info you are wanting people to show you for your figure of choice?

Quote - Remember, we're talking Vicky beater here, not appealing to the avant garde.

Not to beat a dead horse.. but I honestly only think you and the penguine guy are talking vicky beater.  Antonia is an option.. and a great one at that.  I dont think anyone involved in the project expects her to supplant victoria 4 or 5.  She is a heck of a figure to work with and there is nothing wrong with letting people know that.  A lot of people wouldnt try her without encouragement for mostly reasons of being content with the status quo, but until you give her a chance you do not know what you are missing.  

She doesn't need to be THE figure, and she wont be, she cant be sculpted anywhere near the way BH did anastasia, or AS does with alice.  But I really dont see why some people see it as such a bad thing to extol the things we like about this figure to people who havent had the chance or the motivation to see for themselves, yet everytime somebody brings it up it seems to slide into a pit fight.. why?  

You mean she's not the revolutionary next big thing, savior now that *** has ********* Poser etc.? Excuse me, I somehow got that impression. Now that I'm enlightened, let me modify my stance. No, if she's just another figure, just something to add to the mix, not the future of Poser figures yada, yada, then no, you don't need to market her, no need for comparisons. If the whole idea is not to generate interest and give reasons to use the figure (and ensure that she doesn't become a footnote like all the others mentioned) then don't bother with any of that. If the panic has died down and no one is worried about OMG what are we gonna do cuz V5 won't work in Poser then cool.

"But I really dont see why some people see it as such a bad thing to extol the things we like about this figure to people who havent had the chance or the motivation to see for themselves..." 

Seriously, you see suggestions, encouragement on better ways to present the figure to people as discouraging you from doing just that? You may not agree with the ideas, but that hardly inverts reality. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, just not seeing the point. I would think that you'ld be eager to tout a whole slew of great things, not bridle at five. At any rate, I can see you folks want to be left alone so I'll move along. Good luck with your figure.

Honestly, I may have gotten the wrong impression or given too much weight to a minority view. At least one or two other folks seem to have gotten the same impression so maybe I won't be alone in my dank asylum cell. On the bright side, some good points did come out - I hadn't though about the memory issue for instance. For me, that's a big factor and I wouldn't have known it if I hadn't asked :-)

Quote - You mean she's not the revolutionary next big thing, savior now that *** has ********* Poser etc.? Excuse me, I somehow got that impression. Now that I'm enlightened, let me modify my stance. No, if she's just another figure, just something to add to the mix, not the future of Poser figures yada, yada, then no, you don't need to market her, no need for comparisons. If the whole idea is not to generate interest and give reasons to use the figure (and ensure that she doesn't become a footnote like all the others mentioned) then don't bother with any of that. If the panic has died down and no one is worried about OMG what are we gonna do cuz V5 won't work in Poser then cool.

"But I really dont see why some people see it as such a bad thing to extol the things we like about this figure to people who havent had the chance or the motivation to see for themselves..." 

Seriously, you see suggestions, encouragement on better ways to present the figure to people as discouraging you from doing just that? You may not agree with the ideas, but that hardly inverts reality. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, just not seeing the point. I would think that you'ld be eager to tout a whole slew of great things, not bridle at five. At any rate, I can see you folks want to be left alone so I'll move along. Good luck with your figure.

Honestly, I may have gotten the wrong impression or given too much weight to a minority view. At least one or two other folks seem to have gotten the same impression so maybe I won't be alone in my dank asylum cell. On the bright side, some good points did come out - I hadn't though about the memory issue for instance. For me, that's a big factor and I wouldn't have known it if I hadn't asked :-)

I get what you're saying and I'm glad someone else said it... If I expanded on my previous post, people would ignore it and think I'm starting another fight. ;)

Like others, especially Peng, touched on earlier, getting a new figure out there is not a simple endeavor. Those reasons for using another character has to be tangible for the beginning to average user. You have to spread the word, but not in terms of other characters, other software, GPL or even how well everyone works with others; what are her merits? If you work with the character enough and believe in it enough, those merits should come through. But if you end up adding comparisons to other characters, or slamming other software, you're not giving good reasons to use your character... the character you're trying to promote should always be the focus.

meatSim, my apologies I think I may have misunderstood what you were saying & perhaps vice versa. I don't see anything wrong with folks saying the like a figure's realism or getting into the technical details if that's their thing. All of that is going to appeal to someone. I was really thinking for some reason that the Antonia thing needed or wanted the kind of campaign that you would need to compete with with a successful commercial figure. Even then, word of mouth would be a big factor. I was speaking in terms of what I'd put on the front page of a spot to grab the attention of all those potential users that never hit this place. Even then, there's room for testimonials etc. I just wouldn't put those ahead of the 4-5 main points.

Everyone has different motivations. I got her based on a couple of the ethnic morphs I saw. The memory factor is extra incentive to actually install her. I now see that this is more of a laissez-faire, put it out there and let word of mouth sell it kind of thing. I had some kind of vision of a buzzing Antonia Central 'Get me Tokyo on the phone!, where are those posters?, have the detectives dug up any dirt on Aiko?...'  affair. I don't know where I got that idea.

When I created this topic I was wondering if the extended shelf life of V4 would lead to further development of user created features, like trans mapped hair, mat files...

I did not know until i read it here that there was a project ongoing to develop weight mapping for V4.

It's sorta liking going to one of the current NFL playoff teams and saying, hey we are gonna give you another week to get ready. Would it make any difference to the games outcome?  (Ok, I imagine mentioning the NFL playoffs may drag this thread off topic, but since just about everybody else has already :p)

Fucking christ...and here we are again...throwing poo. Will this never end?

Laurie

nope it won't. those involved don't give a fig about anything other than proving their percived enimies wrong. don't matter about rules, consideration for others, etc. they are wrong in my opinion therefore I must prove them wrong and if they won't listen I must attack them! nothing else matters! froth! foam! rant!

it's software and digital data sets. nothing more. not even that important.

but the way some are going, I'd expect them to be using guns and knives before long.

Quote - I think some ('realism') are more subjective opinions than real selling points, but that's a matter of opinion.

I think that the guy whose image I posted above might object. (Blender, on CGForums there are images that you know are not photographs only because artists have uploaded also wire renders).

Quote - ...and here we are again...throwing poo. Will this never end?

I didn't realise you disliked football so much, Laurie.. :lol:

Quote -  

Quote - I think some ('realism') are more subjective opinions than real selling points, but that's a matter of opinion.

I think that the guy whose image I posted above might object. (Blender, on CGForums there are images that you know are not photographs only because artists have uploaded also wire renders).

WOWZERS! :woot:

Quote - nope it won't. those involved don't give a fig about anything other than proving their percived enimies wrong. don't matter about rules, consideration for others, etc. they are wrong in my opinion therefore I must prove them wrong and if they won't listen I must attack them! nothing else matters! froth! foam! rant!

it's software and digital data sets. nothing more. not even that important.

but the way some are going, I'd expect them to be using guns and knives before long.

First they will have to decide which side will use the knives and which side will use the guns. Or will using guns mean that knives won't be used anymore?

Quote - > Quote - ...and here we are again...throwing poo. Will this never end?

Quote - I didn't realise you disliked football so much, Laurie.. :lol:

 

I never touch the stuff ;).

Laurie

i have too many character sets and conforming hair for V4 to ever giver her up now.

now i'm wondering how many character sets are using the same merchant resource ?

i pickedup the Teen Ashley for V4 last week, turns out the texture base is from the V4 Alpha resource.

Yeah, the weight mapping is pretty far along.  Look at that girl bend!

Well at least the Poser community is doing things for themselves now.

Its interesting to see things develop.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - When I created this topic I was wondering if the extended shelf life of V4 would lead to further development of user created features, like trans mapped hair, mat files...

I did not know until i read it here that there was a project ongoing to develop weight mapping for V4.

Yep, I think the weight mapped V4 will extend her life. The people involved in creating the weight mapped version are the same people who helped develop Antonia so there is no conflict there. The people creating the conflict seem to be those who were not involved in any of the development process of any of the characters.

We are still seeing new content being released for V4 and all of this content can be used with the weight mapped version. Therefore, I am sure she will be around for quite a bit longer.

Did I miss something? The Poo Olympics? Who can Poo toss the farthest? I think the best thing is to ignore it. Just respond to non-Poo posts

Quote - Fucking christ...and here we are again...throwing poo. Will this never end?

Laurie

Quote - The people creating the conflict seem to be those who were not involved in any of the development process of any of the characters.

Yep, that sounds about right because only one person that developed Antonia and one person weightmapped her and is currently weightmapping V4. ;)

Actually there is a development team.

All the best.

LROG

There's a project team. Unless a person had an actual hand in developing the figure (rigging, morph) then they are not part of the development team. If those two people walked way from finishing the figure, you would still have a project team, but no developers. I'm giving credit where credit is due.

Bullshit

You really want to kill this thread too?

Quote - Bullshit

About the difference between development and a project team?

Guys... keep it nice.

Hi Kimberly, some of us are trying keeping it nice.

All the best.

LROG

I know paganeagle. Thank you :)

Quote - > Quote - The people creating the conflict seem to be those who were not involved in any of the development process of any of the characters.

Yep, that sounds about right because only one person that developed Antonia and one person weightmapped her and is currently weightmapping V4. ;)

Actually what I said was "involved" which includes everyone and anyone who had any input in it at all including testing or document writing or whatever. I was not just talking about Antonia either. I am also including V4 weight mapped too and Anastasia and any other figure.

However, this thread is about V4. Please let us remember this and keep it nice.

Quote - I'd like to know how the sales of V5 compare to earlier versions. The fact that V4 has yet to be supplanted would suggest things are not going as well as they used to.

I don't think that necessarily follows. V5 is merely a Genesis body morph that Daz has decided to name "V5." Even if Daz released its V5 morph sales figures, you can't compare it to anything because it is confined to the DS4 / Genesis market. Within that market I'm sure the sell-through rate is pretty high. Like sales of Honda Civic accessories are high among Honda Civic owners.  

Quote - About the difference between development and a project team?

Who gives a fuck about semantics.  For the love of God, stop provoking fights all the damn time.

It's getting to the point that I don't want to even open a thread in here anymore - so much bitching and arguing and always by the same people.

ha-ha-ha- I HAVE a HONDA Civic 2.2 Diezel

Quote - There's a project team. Unless a person had an actual hand in developing the figure (rigging, morph) then they are not part of the development team. If those two people walked way from finishing the figure, you would still have a project team, but no developers. I'm giving credit where credit is due.

either way you wern't involved in either ;)

lmao

Quote - I don't think that necessarily follows. V5 is merely a Genesis body morph that Daz has decided to name "V5." Even if Daz released its V5 morph sales figures, you can't compare it to anything because it is confined to the DS4 / Genesis market. Within that market I'm sure the sell-through rate is pretty high. Like sales of Honda Civic accessories are high among Honda Civic owners.  

V4 took a while to replace V3, so it's not the end of the line for V4 yet just because a new figure has been released. Although many factors go into people buying a product, vendors can do a quick gauge of how a genesis character did over a gen 4. Most of our characters include both Gen4 and Genesis characters, plus textures for each so both Poser and DS3 users can use the product in addition to DS4. We released our V5 last month to see how it would see how it would sell and during the intro period it was our 2nd highest selling product, right after our Nigel for M4/Genesis. She pretty much blew away our Gen 4 stuff and we didn't have to do double work for Gen4/Genesis product. So if whatever we do for M5 has the same result, although we'll still do combo products, we don't really have to because I don't see the gloom and doom that people are talking about; we just don't have as many as we would like because everything isn't working in Poser... but it's slowly getting there.