Quote - > Quote - Is there a texture conversion for any of the V4 textures to Antonia?  I have soooo many v4 texures that I love.

There is a version of Antonia which has been UV mapped to use V3 textures, but currently there has been no conversion for V4. 

The V3 version is here:

http://sites.google.com/site/antoniapolygon/

Ah thanks, I don't have nearly as many V3 ones, but a few, so this will help!

Actually, the central heating has failed, but we have a small heater and two cats, so our Christmas should be warm enough.  [grin]

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to all!

Awwww... sorry to hear this Thalek, we had the same thing last week with our teleheating. But as the problem was within the house the problem could be solved before christmas. I hope that you have enough blankets and inner warmth to withstand the cold!!

Quote -  @bob1965,

I have used the angel geometry you sent to me in some conforming earrings for Antonia 1.2. The files have been posted to sharecg as "Bob's Angels".

Nice Christmas Angels!

We should be fine, SF:  maintenance should be out this week, and we actually have a warming trend right now in Southern California.  Between the portable heater, the blankets, the cats, and our love to keep us warm, we'll be okay.

I got a Nook Color for Christmas!  I have my very own data P.A.D.D.!  [grin]

@odf:

Did you ever get anywhere with the idea of converting your Scala meshes project to Python?    It sounds interesting and useful.  :woot:

Quote - @odf:

Did you ever get anywhere with the idea of converting your Scala meshes project to Python?    It sounds interesting and useful.  :woot:

Sorry, no! I haven't found the time yet.

I'm currently teaching myself Haskell, by the way, and liking it a lot. Who knows, maybe I'll convert the meshes code to Haskell instead. :biggrin:

Haskell, eh?  I saw Haskell mentioned on your GitHub page.  Huh.  Would it be more user-friendly (read: "accessible to dummies like Cage" :lol: ) than the Scala implementation?

Quote - Haskell, eh?  I saw Haskell mentioned on your GitHub page.  Huh.  Would it be more user-friendly (read: "accessible to dummies like Cage" :lol: ) than the Scala implementation?

I guess I'd have to say yes, because that code is so mind-blowingly horrible that anything I might come up with now can only be more accessible :biggrin:

I recommend you have a look at the book "Learn you a Haskell for great good", which is available to read online for free. I used to think Haskell was completely esoteric, not comprehensible for non-gurus and horrendeously impractical. After watching a couple of talks on YouTube and Vimeo and checking out that book, I complete reversed my opinion. True, there is all the esoteric stuff that one could do, but I think one can do a lot of interesting stuff with Haskell without getting into that. I'm not saying you will forever abandon Python, but you might start thinking about programming a little differently.

Oops! Did I finally kill the thread?

As of next week, I will be officially self-employed (which I hope will not turn out to be a euphemism for unemployed :biggrin:), so I am starting to wonder if making a little bit of money on the side with Poser-related products (both tools and content) would be completely out of the question. The thing is, I have not the slightest idea what would sell, and I certainly don't feel like embarking on another multi-year project like Antonia.

Any hints? Should I go over to RDNA and ask around what's missing for Antonia or something like that?

PS: Cage, I've thought about the mesh tools library, and I'll most certainly do it in Python, so people will be able to use it in their own scripts. I'll probably take pydough as a starting point, create a maintenance branch for the current version to keep snarlygribbly and Pose2Lux happy, and then refactor the hell out of the main branch. But it's not something you should expect concrete results from too soon.

I agree:  asking around here, RDNA, and the Daz forums about what is "missing" from Antonia is a good start.  At the same time, you might make inquiries about what other small projects people might be interested in seeing from you; they might have something from out of left field that you'd never have considered otherwise.

For myself, I got nothin'.  [wry smile]

Actually I think "

another multi-year project like Antonia"

if she had been high poly I would have gone mad for her.  It's just you know all the detalied morphs like muscle definition,tendon,back (scapulae,spine) and lip definition etc, that everyone who doesn't like high poly figures says "oh you can just use displacement maps for" etc.

Maybe a teenager as we don't have many good poser teenagers.  Or a nice body builder type of male like the freak 5 and M5 that we won't be getting.

Maybe the project wouldn't take you as long now that you have made one, perhaps you could use some of the previous work to help with it.

Love esther

estherau: Would you like an Antonia with 160k polys? Because that should be relatively easy to do, at least for the weight-mapped version (I think).

yeah, so if I had your skills I would take your low poly antonia, subdivide her up, re-rig her and then sell her.

We could then use the low poly one for far off scenes and the high poly one for closeups.

Love esther

PS I bet you could do that in 2 months.

yes, but I would like you to sell her (I know that sounds bizzare) but if you sell her there will be more support for the character. I could not make tendon, spine, muscle morphs etc.

Love esther

you could call her antoniahighpolyWM

You should be able to re-use the existing rigging. I've always maintained the low-poly (~10k) and "high"-poly (~40k) versions in parallel. The only bit that was really painful were the JCMs. I can automatically transfer normal morphs onto a subdivided mesh, but that doesn't quite work with JCMs (I forgot why exactly).

If it's the WM version, and just transferring the base mesh and morphs, I think the only practical problem would be that my current Scala code for doing the subdivision is terribly slow and clunky, and it uses up a lot of memory. So it's either finding an unused, reasonably high-powered computer and let it run for a few nights, or else bringing my Python code "up to speed".

Ha, I've always wanted to try my hand at doing muscle, bone and tendon details and such via displacement maps. The trouble is that one would probably need joint-controlled maps. Does Poser 9/2012 support those yet?

Attached Link: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=175224&start=500

You could be the hero of the poser people.  in this time of dire DAZ stress.

You could save us.

Love esther

Quote - Any hints? Should I go over to RDNA and ask around what's missing for Antonia or something like that?

I think what Antonia is really missing right now is face morphs.  The basic expression pack included with the figure can cover some things, but based on my (probably flawed) efforts to apply them, I wonder if they're better suited for phonemes than a full range of expressions.  She could use more morphs, perhaps, or at least an expression library which applies the existing ones.  I think she could also use a displacement map for muscle detail.  I kind of miss small details around the knees, in the neck or torso or forearms where they could add a lot to the effectiveness of the figure.

But I would still vote for a dynamic hair utility.  :lol:  Or a compiled Poser Python matrix and vector math library (Poser 9 and Poser Pro can use .dll files via the ctypes module, and Mac can use the equivalent file type for that platform).  Unfortunately both of these would probably need to be in C++.  I only mention it because I'm very impressed by your programming, and... because I mention these things everywhere nowadays, just hoping.  :lol:

Quote - Cage, I've thought about the mesh tools library, and I'll most certainly do it in Python, so people will be able to use it in their own scripts.

Excellent!  Oh, excellent!  I'm very interested in what this library may be able to accomplish!

Quote - Would you like an Antonia with 160k polys? Because that should be relatively easy to do, at least for the weight-mapped version (I think).

Ooh!  That might be better than displacement maps.  I should read everything before I start responding.  :laugh:

Quote - I can automatically transfer normal morphs onto a subdivided mesh, but that doesn't quite work with JCMs (I forgot why exactly).

Did it have anything to do with the weld zones?  Colorcurvature has shown how Poser's welds can wreak havoc with morphs.  Apparently it's a whole lot of no fun.  :scared:

Glad to have you back, odf!  :thumbupboth:

Quote - The trouble is that one would probably need joint-controlled maps. Does Poser 9/2012 support those yet?

I think Poser 6 might support those.  :unsure:  If you animate a texture, IIRC it creates a parameter dial accessible in the Pose Room.  Any parameter dial should be able to be linked up using ERC.  If you used dependent parameters (which are so, so much better than standard ERC!), this could even be set up within Poser.  But DP support would only work for Poser 8+.

Quote - > Quote - The trouble is that one would probably need joint-controlled maps. Does Poser 9/2012 support those yet?

I think Poser 6 might support those.  :unsure:  If you animate a texture, IIRC it creates a parameter dial accessible in the Pose Room.  Any parameter dial should be able to be linked up using ERC.  If you used dependent parameters (which are so, so much better than standard ERC!), this could even be set up within Poser.  But DP support would only work for Poser 8+.

Oh, cool! One might use that mechanism to create creases on the forehead to go along with the brow expression morphs, among other things.

Quote - The thing is, I have not the slightest idea what would sell, and I certainly don't feel like embarking on another multi-year project like Antonia. Any hints? Should I go over to RDNA and ask around what's missing for Antonia or something like that?

A lot of people have been asking for more expression morphs, visemes, and eh... "intimate" morphs. I'm kinda scared to try any of these, but a lot of people have asked me (seems like I'm the morph girl now LOL).

And way too many people want a higher-poly version of Antonia. If this would be possible in a way that makes it easy / automatable for me to convert my morphs to it, I'd love you forever.

I'm just wondering if 160k polys might not be a bit too much, and how hard it would be to get a decent 90k mesh out of the original low-poly version. Hmmm... :biggrin:

Yeah, expression morphs are hard. I know I should have spent way more time than I did, but I was kind of burned out at the time, so you can all be glad you got any, at all. If people are interested in better expressions, maybe I could pick up my Osipa again, do some refinements, maybe some extra morphs that I had left out, and think about an easier-to-use interface for making expressions.

Intimate morphs, eh? The "labia detailled" one that comes with the base figure is not enough? I guess that's one of the areas where a higher-poly figure might have an advantage. :biggrin:

I'm so glad that the thread is reviving back to more ideas.  I always thought some phonemes/expression morphs would be ideal for her.  I wish I can try my hand at that, but unlike Afrodite, I don't want to break anything.

Quote - Yeah, expression morphs are hard. I know I should have spent way more time than I did, but I was kind of burned out at the time, so you can all be glad you got any, at all. If people are interested in better expressions, maybe I could pick up my Osipa again, do some refinements, maybe some extra morphs that I had left out, and think about an easier-to-use interface for making expressions. Intimate morphs, eh? The "labia detailled" one that comes with the base figure is not enough? I guess that's one of the areas where a higher-poly figure might have an advantage. :biggrin:

I actually made a pack of pre-dialed expressions for her with the included expression morphs (didn't release it yet because I'm struggling with a way to avoid that applying them zeros custom face morphs and because they are making the eyebrow polys go bananas) and was amazed at how naturally you can make Antonia express herself. I only missed a morph for bringing only the very center of the lips up or down, preferably separately, and bringing the lips to the front (so I could make a pretty pout combining that with the narrow mouth expression morph). But I can see why people want more expression morphs, they're not as user-friendly as a Smile morph that already affects the nose and bottom eyelids in the same morph... but I love them for that, give me so much more control.

About the intimate morphs... Yeah, people want to do the naughty. Labia spread, inside spread for when something is... inserted, and so on.

Quote - I'm so glad that the thread is reviving back to more ideas.  I always thought some phonemes/expression morphs would be ideal for her.  I wish I can try my hand at that, but unlike Afrodite, I don't want to break anything.

When did I say I want to break something? o.ô If shapes and UVs are kept, the only thing hurt by making her higher-poly would be morphs... and that's why I asked if there could be a simple way of converting them. I don't know, the programming people make awesome stuff I'd never think would be possible, so...

I think if you make a similar sized mesh to V4 but with a lot of polys around the lips and eyes it would be good.  Anything less might be disappointing for people making special morphs.  We are all used to V4 and have computers that can cope with V4. Only a couple of people in the forums have a preference for less heavy meshes as far as I can see.

Love esther

If the higher-poly version is created automatically with something like Catmull-Clark subdivision, then the morphs could also be converted automatically. I've been doing that a lot with the two existing Antonia versions. But as I said, we'd have to go as high as 160k polys in order to apply another round of Catmull-Clark. Which probably makes sense if people really want high-poly.

The only problem is that my current software, on my current computer, couldn't handle the conversion. So I'd need to either write better software (preferred) or get a better computer. :biggrin:

Afrodite mor cloth can also move morphs from one mesh into another.

160k does sound a bit higher than I'd care to render regularly.  I can imagine three such figures in a scene.  Oog.  Plus clothes and props?  Errm.  :unsure:

Is there any way to do selective intensification of the mesh, without sacrificing the, umm, topological integrity?  If "topological integrity" is what I mean.    Could some areas be given useful mesh detail without diminishing Antonia somehow?

that sounds really good to me.

Love esther

well you could use the low poly version for background and high poly for closeups. it would be really great for my comic making just for an example.

for the volar aspects of the forarms (ie the front parts) you would need polys to make tendons, and the backs would need muscle definition for muscular characters or say when a character is hanging by one arm from a rope or something.

Even backs need definition.  

And at the front Abs at the front and with not enough polys the muscular poser person tends to look like a beetle. ie straight lines rather than gentle curves with slopes.

More polys are like a blank slate for creative people to pull and push to make stuff.

Love esther

Quote - Is there any way to do selective intensification of the mesh, without sacrificing the, umm, topological integrity?  If "topological integrity" is what I mean.    Could some areas be given useful mesh detail without diminishing Antonia somehow?

I guess that could get pretty tricky. I must confess I don't particularly feel like trying it out.

One could try to go from the ~10k version to ~90k instead by using an automatic subdivision scheme similar to Catmull-Clark, but then we'd probably have to use something like your morph transfer software (or Crossdresser etc if that works on faces, as well) to get morphs made for the ~40k version over to the ~90k one. The shapes would be very, very close to each other, so maybe that could work reasonably well. I don't know.

I think Morphing Clothes has been found to work to transfer head and face morphs between Antonia-lo and Antonia-standard resolution.  I would consider that a better option, generally, than trying to mess with something like TDMT.  But TDMT could do it, if that route became necessary.  (Or some completely new utility could be written, perhaps hard-coding the necessary transfer information and working only with Antonia.  :unsure:)

I guess your "Meshes" technique wouldn't work, in the new situation you suggest?

Quote - I guess your "Meshes" technique wouldn't work, in the new situation you suggest?

Probably not. I could transfer morphs from the 10k version onto the 90k one, but not 40k onto 90k.

Hmm could Morphing Clothes do something so tiny like pupil sizes and be acceptably exact about it? In which settings? I'd adore to try, then we could safely give people the high poly Toni they so want, with all the things she already has :D

For what Esther is describing, I'd probably like to take Antonia into something like 3dCoat and redo the topology pretty much from scratch to make sure all the important areas have enough polys and a good edge flow (the latter probably being more important than sheer poly number).

The problem with that approach is that one would essentially lose the body part boundaries and, more importantly, the texture seams. I guess if one is careful when creating the new topology, that could be fixed with a little bit of tweaking at the end.

I'm not saying I'll do it, mind you. Just contemplating possibilities.

Well, yes, the seams (UV map in general) and also the final shape, if changed, would break a lot of content.

Quote - Hmm could Morphing Clothes do something so tiny like pupil sizes and be acceptably exact about it? In which settings? I'd adore to try, then we could safely give people the high poly Toni they so want, with all the things she already has :D

Pupil sizes could probably be done automatically. Do people want/need higher-poly eyes, anyway?

Quote - > Quote - Hmm could Morphing Clothes do something so tiny like pupil sizes and be acceptably exact about it? In which settings? I'd adore to try, then we could safely give people the high poly Toni they so want, with all the things she already has :D

Pupil sizes could probably be done automatically. Do people want/need higher-poly eyes, anyway?

I only used that as an example. I meant very detailed/tiny morphs in general...

I can't speak for everyone else, but anything V4 or V5 could do I would also like antonia to do (without needing to smooth at render etc)

Love esther

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Hmm could Morphing Clothes do something so tiny like pupil sizes and be acceptably exact about it? In which settings? I'd adore to try, then we could safely give people the high poly Toni they so want, with all the things she already has :D

Pupil sizes could probably be done automatically. Do people want/need higher-poly eyes, anyway?

I only used that as an example. I meant very detailed/tiny morphs in general...

Ah, okay! Yeah, that could be tricky, I guess. I don't know Morphing Clothes well enough, though.

I think eyes (and several other areas of the figure) are just fine already.  Unless you need to intensify the mesh uniformly for whatever process you're considering, I don't think all areas would need to have higher density for the sake of any detailing morphs.

I'm glad to see the conversation turning this way... I've been batting it around in my brain the last little while as well.. only I dont have any of the skills to even try it!  I do have a higher poly antonia sitting in my runtime.. I dont remember where it came from and I dont think she actually 'works' but I had been wondering about running her through the setup room and stealing regular Antonia~WM's skeleton then trying to transfer morphs with morphing clothes

There are of course adjustments that would be needed to the rig and it smooths out some of the details a bit more than I'd like.  But for the 5 minuts it took, its not a bad experiment

Is that the one generated using Colorcurvature's experimental figure subdivision script and posted at RDNA?  IIRC, the mesh wan't smoothed in the subdivision step and the surface has flattened patches or faceting evident which shows where the polygon surfaces were on the lower resolution version.

Man, that's a lotta polys.  :scared: :lol:  We wouldn't really need (or want) that many, would we?