Quote - My takeaway is simple.  Never, ever, be an early adopter of DAZ software.  You can always let the early adopters find the bugs & get the product free later.

Never be an early adopter of DAZ anything.  Unless you need it right away, just wait.  It will go on sale for 50% off or more eventually.

Don't have to wait for 3D World or 3D Artist mag to distribute free DAZ stuff (at least for the next month).

Well, whatever their goal is, good luck to them. We need more 3D sites, not less.

Now, imagining if the shoe were on the other foot... If Smith Micro announced that Poser Pro 2012 ($499 list, $299 at Amazon is the cheapest legit source I can find) were now absolutely free, I would feel a bit nervous about my platform of choice.  Never mind how I would feel if I shelled out for it 31 days ago, could now get it free, and could not get my money back.

well it does smack of a desperate move, though it very well could pay off and deliver a few more genesis users to their beleagered consumer farm, maybe quite a few.  Its hard to estimate what kind of visibility or draw this will get outside the 3d hobby world that all of us are so imersed in.  Its always good to draw new people to the community.  

Quote - well it does smack of a desperate move, though it very well could pay off and deliver a few more genesis users to their beleagered consumer farm, maybe quite a few.  Its hard to estimate what kind of visibility or draw this will get outside the 3d hobby world that all of us are so imersed in.  Its always good to draw new people to the community.  

Still no documentation.  The new folks won't be as jaded as long-term DAZ customers & they will be less likely to tolerate half-baked software and no documentation.

And so soon after the release of V4 weight-mapped....It is a countermove, but did DAZ change the game or is this reactive?. I believe the team that weight-mapped V4 should take the credit for changing the game.

I don't really see the game changing part. I've been always able to get my software from DAZ really cheap, Hexagon was like 1,99$ IIRC. It's kind of a bold move to give the Pro version away for nothing, since a lot of people seem to have spent real money for it. 

Now, if you get half-baked and undocumented software for free you probably complain not quite as much as someone who paid real money for the software. 

About the WM-V4, we still have to see if this is a game changer. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazingly well done rig, a real benefit. But people will have to modify the existing clothes, and a part of it won't work right. It's not click-click-click-done, it takes a bit more work. A lot of people will use it, but I see no game changer here either. Not yet, at least.

Free apps means more content sales to more new customers.  Which means more market share.  Poser 5 was free.  Sometimes Poser 6.

Anyway, I think a bigger announcement is still to come soon.

Wow..daz4pro for free. That is a game changer, Now everybody can create content for Genesis. And with the Goz feature as well, making morphs and clothing is easy as pie. Thats if you have zbrush. Either way, This will benefit Daz and Genesis marketshare.

Quote - Wow..daz4pro for free. That is a game changer, Now everybody can create content for Genesis. And with the Goz feature as well, making morphs and clothing is easy as pie. Thats if you have zbrush. Either way, This will benefit Daz and Genesis marketshare.

Just follow the documentation, and oh, wait......

About the WM-V4, we still have to see if this is a game changer. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazingly well done rig, a real benefit. But people will have to modify the existing clothes, and a part of it won't work right. It's not click-click-click-done, it takes a bit more work. A lot of people will use it, but I see no game changer here either. Not yet, at least.

Things are going on at the moment to make clothing conversions easier. You have to do a lot of messing about to convert stuff to the Genesis figures via AutoFit as well.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - > Quote - Wow..daz4pro for free. That is a game changer, Now everybody can create content for Genesis. And with the Goz feature as well, making morphs and clothing is easy as pie. Thats if you have zbrush. Either way, This will benefit Daz and Genesis marketshare.

 

Just follow the documentation, and oh, wait......

Actually youtube vids on daz4 features are more helpful than the documentation. There is a vid for basically every feature of daz4. Still is no excuse for lack of documentation. But, also no train smash.

Quote - Wow..daz4pro for free. That is a game changer, Now everybody can create content for Genesis. And with the Goz feature as well, making morphs and clothing is easy as pie. Thats if you have zbrush. Either way, This will benefit Daz and Genesis marketshare.

I suppose that the people who planned to create and sell stuff for Genesis already bought the tools. Following the announcement, they won't stay free forever. Yes, it's great for the people who did not really need the features but would like to have them. Getting them for free is a good thing.

GoZ is nice if you have ZBrush. How does it handle figures with multiple textures? For making clothing - I assume that extracting them from the mesh still isn't allowed by DAZ's license, or am I mistaken here?

It handles multiple UV's fine. I assume you're talking about Zbrush. No idea about the rules with mesh extraction...

Quote - Anyway, I think a bigger announcement is still to come soon.

What makes you think that?  They posted in the original "there will be a big announcement" thread at DAZ that this is the big announcement.  Are they now promising a bigger announcement?

dont know if its game changing or not, but will give a lot of peeps a chance to try hexagon and bryce

Married... Built in date for Valentines

Thanks!

Quote - Now everybody can create content for Genesis. And with the Goz feature as well, making morphs and clothing is easy as pie. Thats if you have zbrush.

Easy as a pretty expensive pie. Pixologic Zbrush = $699.

Quote - My takeaway is simple.  Never, ever, be an early adopter of DAZ software.  You can always let the early adopters find the bugs & get the product free later.

Yup! I got Cararra 7 free on a magazine and either got Hex free or 1.99 (can't remember which). Bryce 5.5 was free for years and then I bought 6 when they offered it cheap and it was so buggy I went back to using 5.

I paid for D|S3 and then only used it a couple of times as I discovered that my D|S shaders (created specially for export to Vue - the main reason I used D|S) didn't work in D|S3.

On a side note - Genesis does nothing for me (I'm not one of those who was upset that Genesis isn't compatible with Poser) and now I've got Poser and Vue talking to each other I've really got no use for D|S at all.

Quote - Well, whatever their goal is, good luck to them. We need more 3D sites, not less.

Now, imagining if the shoe were on the other foot... If Smith Micro announced that Poser Pro 2012 ($499 list, $299 at Amazon is the cheapest legit source I can find) were now absolutely free, I would feel a bit nervous about my platform of choice.  Never mind how I would feel if I shelled out for it 31 days ago, could now get it free, and could not get my money back.

A comparison with Vue.

You shell 100s of $ (actually ~1000) to get Vue Infinite. You are OK with it, you use it, you enjoy it.

One day, E-On announces a game changing move. Vue Infinite free for 30 days to everybody.

A part of the money you spent goes down the drain (not all because you used the program so some amortization took place), but this is not the worst. The product itself is debased in the view of the customers and the firm taught the customers a deadly lesson (wait and see, when one of the cornerstones of marketing is preventing potential customer from thinking "do I really need it?"). Less sales/sales with discounts -> less cash flow for E-On -> less E-On capability of sustaining development -> cloudy (to say the least) Vue Infinite future.

Interstingly, Carrara was not part of the butchery. I don't know how to interpret this (and actually I have better things to do).

As last note, over DAZ, there is a thread of fuming customer asking for refunds (or at least there was last time I checked). I imagine it will be deleted soon (not DAZ soon, Oxford dictionary soon).

Bye.

P.S.: b.t.w., just a few months ago DAZ officials notified a draconian "never again sales" policy. I am positive that their and mine interpretation of "never" is radically different. For me, never means not in this life; we can talk about it again (maybe) in my next reincarnation.

When your realize you've made a bad decision it's best to admit it and just walk away from it. Unfortunately, in the corporate world, that seldom happens.

I remember a billion years ago when Poser (Curious Labs) made the software and Daz made the content and it seemed from my outside perspective to be symbiotic. Then Daz, in an attempt to capture all the market, cut the cord and came out with DS3, which they gave away for free. Problem is, they didn't capture the market and now they were stuck with software they had to develop and support that generated no income and Poser ended up as a stepchild product in a much bigger company. Now, again, DAZ is reprising that role on an even bigger scale.

Worse, this infighting and tactics to undermine one another (Geniesis not compatible with Poser) only created frustration for the customers and summoned into the fray a lot of very intelligent people capable of working around DAZ's marketing ploys (weight-mapped V4) and giving it away for free!

If only the honchos at DAZ could admit they made a mistake and decide to work with Poser instead of against it, it would be good for all parties involved.

I'm quite surprised to see several posts over at Daz saying that this will entice Poser users to D|S instead. Is that just because it's free? If so, wouldn't they already be using the free D|S version anyway? Or are all other Poser users that desperate to get Genesis?

Quote - As last note, over DAZ, there is a thread of fuming customer asking for refunds (or at least there was last time I checked). I imagine it will be deleted soon (not DAZ soon, Oxford dictionary soon).

A pity DAZ didn't ask your advice; good advice it is.  I didn't have DS4, but I did buy Bryce 7 Pro, so I feel a little pain...

The thread in question has been joined by Ms. Anderson, DAZ's PA/Customer Relations Liaison, so someone there is at least listening now...

Quote - I'm quite surprised to see several posts over at Daz saying that this will entice Poser users to D|S instead. Is that just because it's free? If so, wouldn't they already be using the free D|S version anyway? Or are all other Poser users that desperate to get Genesis?

We had some threads here about this subject. Most Poserites which did not want to switch did so because they prefered some Poser features or just did not get along with DAZ. Neither the price nor the lack of creation tools were mentioned often.

Quote - I'm quite surprised to see several posts over at Daz saying that this will entice Poser users to D|S instead. Is that just because it's free? If so, wouldn't they already be using the free D|S version anyway? Or are all other Poser users that desperate to get Genesis?

That is a surprise.  I can see some people using Daz4 as well as Poser.  I downloaded Ds4 and when I get really bored I will probably install it but it is already too late for me as I am hooked on the Sub Surface Scattering in the latest Poser.  In some scenes, where the character is not dominant, it may not be an issue so I might use DS4 if it gives me something Poser can't but it will not replace Poser for me.  I never had an interest in Genesis, not even when it was new and Shiny, and my time for the last week has been spent getting to know V4WM.  There are a few issues with clothing but on the whole there is a relatively quick quick solution, at least there has been for the majority of the outfits I use for V4.   There also appears to be a better solution in the pipeline so even that will go away.

May not be a game changer but in my book SSS and V4WM are much nearer changing the game than this Daz attempt is.

Quote - I'm quite surprised to see several posts over at Daz saying that this will entice Poser users to D|S instead. Is that just because it's free? If so, wouldn't they already be using the free D|S version anyway? Or are all other Poser users that desperate to get Genesis?

Snerk......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And why would this particular ploy be any more successful than the ones they used when DS, DS2, and DS3 came out? Those posts you mention are more group delusion than anything else. Yeah, they will get some newbies to CG who have no clue what they are getting, but I'm sorry. Their Apple-fied pseudo app has already had the chance to woo the Poser user. Didn't happen. And sure Poser users would like to play with the  g-thing.....but it doesn't work in Poser. You can kludge it to an extent, but you get a crippled featured knockoff of a unimesh Vickie.

The only 'game changing announcement' in this whole thing is in subtext: 'We screwed up in our assumptions that one unimesh figure with some nifty morphing ability was going to hypnotize an educated, experienced user base into tossing a familiar app aside for one that has fewer features and no documentation. Even worse, we broke the carefully assembled habit machine that has had users throwing $$$$$$ at us every time we announce a new figure. Since hell will most decidedly be hosting the Winter Olympics before we so much as suggest we screwed our own pooch, we'll toss a moribund modelling app, a horribly slow landscape app that languished in Corel's vault for nigh onto a decade before we scarfed it, and our Great App Hope(tm) with the content tools that others paid for out there for free and hope for the best'.

 I wish them luck, but the sad truth is that two of the three tools are generations behind the curve. Newbies won't know, but those of us who have tried in the past to fit those apps into a useable pipeline know how behind the curve they are. And with the g-thing not working in Poser, and no new v-thing or m-thing in the offing, all the figure creators out there see a chance to make something new and not have it bulldozed under by a slick ad campaign.

How it all works in the end?

We shall see....... 

Well, I'm positive that I won't use Studio much. However, I do find the offer generous, unexpected, and appreciated. At least I appreciate it.

Generous or not, there is no way that DAZ is going to get me to use DS for anything.  Just tried to install Bryce, net result was two error screens and a crash.  Dumped it, not worth any hassle.  Setup guided by error screens is a pretty lousy way.

There had been the general idea in the DAZ forums that genesis not working in poser is SM's problem, I won't buy that.  DAZ chose to split, and I'm hardass enough to think the road behind them should be torn out.  They're not the only entity capable of making a good figure, they walked off, let them keep going and over the cliff.

I'm still waiting for the game changing announcement. :m_confused:

Used Bryce years ago and moved on to Vue. Also used Hexagon years ago but moved on too. I've always been a Poser user. Best combination for me is Poser and Vue. I don't need anything else if it doesn't work with this combo even if it is free. :m_smile:

I used DS to get my feet wet in 2006, switched to Poser in 2010, and removed every trace of DS3A from my computer when I installed PPro 2012 last year.  I really hate that part of me wants to take advantage of their offer just to have a free copy of DS4Pro.

:(

I begin to wonder, this wouldn't be the first time some company has decided on something "revolutionary!  Totally new!  World shaking!  The way of the future!", then found while it may seem like the best way, the customers simply wouldn't support it.  It's not hard to see DAZ as having bet the homestead on genesis and DS4, only to find out the users of older versions don't like it any better than the Poser users.  Being only fractionally compatible with Poser, no reason for Poser users to embrace it, and too much given up to use DS. 

They could be testing the market, seeing if they can get some idea of what would be a market price that would sell, although without sales numbers, I have no idea how any of the three offered were doing.  Not testing the market for the programs, but if there's any bump in the genesis related models. 

It could be possible that a lot of the wind was taken out of the genesis sales by the weight  mapping ability of PP2012, which I believe, given time, will put new life in most of the older figures as people begin to experiment with it.  Which is not the way DAZ would like to see things going.  They might see it as a threat, with people finding new tools to work with to get the result they're looking for at minimal expense, meaning added expense.  I have no ideas, and logic as normally applied doesn't work.

D.

i passed it through my cart, in case i want a DS5 upgrade when it comes out.

and i'd like to try the content creation tools for DS4.

Quote - i passed it through my cart, in case i want a DS5 upgrade when it comes out.

Ay-yep... downloading now...

To quote Bill Murray from Ghostbusters, "Mother pus bucket..."

If you don't have a modeling program yet it doesn't hurt to have a look at Hexagon. It can do some pretty nice thing, even if the toolset hasn't changed much in the last couple of years. At least there was a bugfix not too long ago. I prefer Silo and ZBrush, but both are far from being free. 

I cannot say much about Bryce, since I use Vue. At the moment I see no reason to change. And that's true with Studio too. Most of my content is for Poser. I used the advanced Morph Loader with DS3, but since Colorcurvature published PML, I don't need it any more. And my shaders, my lights and lots of the clothes (dynamic) are Poser only. Change for what, for Genesis? Not really. 

GoZ is nice, but I can bring my stuff to ZBrush with PML as well.

Since I'm Mod for D|S as well, I've got my copy. Might be handy to try out things when people have problems with the software, but I won't even link all of my runtimes to Studio. 

PML?

Quote -  I prefer Silo and ZBrush, but both are far from being free. 

Yep, I use Silo mainly and would love ZBrush. If that ever became free it would be earth shattering news! :m_bouncy:

Quote - If you don't have a modeling program yet it doesn't hurt to have a look at Hexagon.

I've never modeled before, but would love to learn how to create my own content if I can get over the learning curve.  Might be useful to run a comparison between it, and... say... Blender... see which one's most intuitive.  Based on what little rsearch I've done though, Blender has the widest community support, so I may wind up with it regardless.

Community support is the principle reason why I switched to Poser - got tired of finding content that either wasn't tested in or compatible with DAZ.

I bought ZBrush about ten years ago (from DAZ) for 3 or 4 hundred dollars, can't remember exactly.  I've gotten every update since for free.  Best deal on any 3D software ever!

Scott

Quote - Their Apple-fied pseudo app has already had the chance to woo the Poser user. Didn't happen.

Not sure Apple fits the general thrust of your post. Apple's example has been to pick a technology (iPod, then iPhone, then iPad), develop it so that it takes the industry by storm, and watch other electronics manufacturers try to imitate it and cash in on the trend. Daz Studio is NOT on the Apple side of that equation. They were with Victoria, and they probably hope to be with Genesis, but there isn't anything "Applie-fied" about the program itself.

Poser & Blender coupled with Photoshop covers pretty much all of my rendering needs.

I am just now starting to create my own Poser content in Blender and changing gears would be counter productive.

I might grab Hexagon just for the tutorials that are around the net, but I really REALLY like Blender and Poser and will stick with them for the foreseeable future. Poser 8 is a better fit for me than any DS ... pro or not.

I will upgrade to Poser 2012 this spring some time :-)

Quote - Change for what, for Genesis? Not really. ... Since I'm Mod for D|S as well, I've got my copy.

Bantha, I'm surprised Daz tolerates their Mods to hold (or at least express) this view of Genesis. I thought they were required to drink the Kool-Aid or something. I'm encouraged to see that's not so.

Could landscapes be created in Bryce and exported to Poser?

lmk

Quote - Poser & Blender coupled with Photoshop covers pretty much all of my rendering needs.

That sounds like a great fit and an ideal workflow.  I'd love to adopt it myself.

Quote - > Quote - Change for what, for Genesis? Not really. ... Since I'm Mod for D|S as well, I've got my copy.

Bantha, I'm surprised Daz tolerates their Mods to hold (or at least express) this view of Genesis. I thought they were required to drink the Kool-Aid or something. I'm encouraged to see that's not so.

the DS forum here at RO

I can't speak for the PC version of Hexagon 2.5, but the Mac version was so unintuitive and bug-ridden I couldn't get past the learning curve. I wish it had been free back when I paid $149.95 for it. Or that I had waited for one of the many "specials" that came along. Back then I didn't realize Daz was doing that with products it had acquired and which weren't selling well. Actually, I didn't even realize Hex belonged to Daz back then.

Quote - PML?

PoseMorphLoader

http://cgscripts.colorcurvature.com/morphloader.html

Hexagon is basically the same program it was six years ago.  That's an awful long time between versions in this day and age.

I wish they'd included Carrara Pro.  That, I might get excited about.

Quote - Could landscapes be created in Bryce and exported to Poser?

Yes, terrains can be exported as a mesh or heightmap, along with the color map. Or you could render in Bryce and use the render in BagginsBill's enrivonment sphere. The latter is actually speculation, I'm not sure Bryce can render images in whatever configuration the sphere requires, but it's probably doable.

Trees generated in Bryce can also probably be exported, not sure about that either.

Quote - If only the honchos at DAZ could admit they made a mistake and decide to work with Poser instead of against it, it would be good for all parties involved.

Will never happen.  DAZ doesn't ever, ever make mistakes.  Ask them, they will tell you.

Poser users will look at DS4P (I downloadeded it), using it is another issue all together.  Poser users expect little things like documentation and finished software.  DS4P still looks like beta software to me.

We know this wasn't a strategic move, because DAZ doesn't do long-term planning.