Well, filters can be useful for some things, for example the night sky I found for the renders, but when you want to create vehicles, etc.  it just does not cover what an actual 3D model can do sadly. 

As far as my position on the 25.00, it's not everyone's business here in the forums how my personal life is at the moment, and its something that I really do want to share publically. 

Don't you all read my signature?  That definitely has something to do with my situation I'm in right now.

Please bear this in mind when we make snyde comments and rude remarks towards me.

Thanks.

Oh, sorry, I meant search filters for the free-stuff section. Sorry to be unclear.

No problem Robyns -- I see what you're saying now =)

yes, I think filters would be an excellent idea.

Well to answer your original question Ragtopjohnny, i think you were too sensitive, which may also well have to do with what you mentioned in your signiture.  when you are in pain it takes over your whole life.

People have the right to do whatever they like with their products.

I do find it annoying if something is presented as "free" and then I read the fine print and find out I cannot sell my render one day if someone wants it.  Or more in my case, if i use the thing in one little panel of my comic, then I can't sell my comic.  But that is what the term "free stuff" often means in this community (to some people anyway), as you can see by all the above responses.  Whenever you see the word free just think twice and try not to be disappointed.

Love esther

Quote - **Don't you all read my signature? ** That definitely has something to do with my situation I'm in right now.

Please bear this in mind when we make snyde comments and rude remarks towards me.

Thanks.

1: Not everyone is in the habit of reading signatures and 2: If you know you are cranky because of a headache, it's up to you to make the effort to not be rude to others because of it!

These forums are full of people who suffer from one illness or another and we all need to monitor our own behavior and not expect others to treat us special because of it. I'm not in a habit of speaking of all my own issues in the forums, though many admins and a couple mod's know my issues. I've been known to get nasty when I feel bad and it's been up to me to correct that issue and not expect everyone else to tippy toe around me. Yes it would be nice if the world worked that way but it doesn't.

Steve,

I feel I wasn't rude at all what so ever until someone slammed my reputation with the Freebie comment. 

There's a difference between rudeness and defending one's self. 

I understand that its definitely not right to be rude to someone, I rarely am, except when I feel the need is there to explain it in no other way.

Quote - there is such a margin where people have different views and it's a case of where do you draw the line, personally I did allow the usage

you mentioned in the first list above in relation to promotional work and therefore gave 'limited commercial use',

however people saw that as anything goes and included the second list, even though it was stipulated in the readme :/

I agree that people have different views of what "commercial use" means (which is why it's nice when it's spelled out), and even when it IS spelled out (as I know you did) there may be people who just ignore what the terms are (and in your case, I think it's unlikely they just "misunderstood"). That was very unfortunate for you and for everyone who WAS respecting the terms.  People like that can ruin things for everyone.  

That's true Alisa ---

People who totally disregard the system ruin it for everyone else. 

I offered a free copy of my set in exchange, guess that wasn't enough.  There was no price tag next to the model either on the page.  Nothing, zip, zilch, nada.

Oh well, gonna look around else where I guess. =)

I can see both points of view, yours and the vendors.  And I don't think you are being over sensitive. Just looking at it a different way.

On one hand the item is free, but the limitations are restricted to personal use only, which is mainly just hobbiests.

On the other hand when you asked if you can use the item in a semi-commercial render, meaning an advertisement for a for sale product, not the sale of the actual render itself, you were asked to pay $25.00 for the license to do that.

I can see your frustration about this. It does frustrate me too. But I do side with the vendor in this case.

The vendor could have gone 3 ways on this:

1.  Just say yes to you using the item in your commercialized render without asking for anything in return;

2.  Just sayng no, to the concept of using the item in a commercialized render;

3.  Doing what they did and asking for a license fee to use it in a commercialized render.

I think you would have been ok with them telling you #1 or #2.  I imagine it seems to you that you are now being asked to pay for the item which was free when you downloaded it.

You aren't really buying the item so to speak. 

The fact that you want to use the item in your commercialized render, means that it will add something to that render in order to catch the eye of a buyer for your product.  So in that case the addition of this particular free item is adding value to your commercialized render, lending itself to more sales (hopefully), and increasing your bottom line.

All this vendor is asking you for is a few dollars for permission/license to use his/her product which in a sense is helping you make money.  So if you are making money from essentially using his/her product, shouldn't he/she be entitled to some return on that?

I supposed he/she could have asked for a commission on each sale, but how do you work that out because he may not trust you to report on every sale.

So based on that, I do think the vendor was being nice about it. He/she didn't have to give permission at all. And if you are making money off of his/her efforts, I think that s/he should be entitled to a return on that.

@ Ragtop - I hope you read my post because I believe I made a good point why you should consider the creator's side of things without, I hope, making any snide remarks regarding you.

Regarding illness and the like:

I'm a long term depression sufferer and I've been on some kind of anti depressant meds for longer than I've been here.  I also started developing arthritis a few years ago and had knee surgery last year because of it.  I'm unemployed due to these illnesses and various others and consequently I have very little money.  

Around 18 months ago, my father - incidentally my very best friend in the world - died of cancer.  You can imagine how much fun that was.

Apart from that, about 4 years ago I was beaten up by a gang of people, because I stood up to the criminals in the place where we lived.  After that, they made our lives hell and finally smashed our windows.  We were then given a new place to live for a "short while".  Not a great place but better than living in fear.  It was only a tiny place but since we were only going to be there for a few weeks it didn't matter.  We had all our stuff put in storage for the time being.  Two and a half years later, after a protracted legal battle with our landlord - there is effectively only one landlord here - we got moved to a place that's fit to live in.  All our stuff in storage - around $30,000 in your money - was trashed, stolen and otherwise ruined by being stored for so long.  We basically lost everything and have no means of replacing it.

There's loads of other shit we've had to deal with over the past 10 years that I'm not going to mention here but I can tell you most of it was less fun than sticking needles in your eyes. 

My point?  I'm not asking for sympathy nor even consideration.  What I'm saying is, in all this time I've been a member at Renderosity, no matter what, I have never once taken my problems out on anyone here.  If anything, I go the other direction to be nice, friendly and understanding.  For sure, I've had a few "fights" but never once have I come looking for trouble; I've only ever responded in kind.  In truth, I don't let things on teh internets get to me because I have much, much more in real life to be concerned with.  This here and everything around it is just a bit of fun.  Read my signature, for example; that should tell you all you need to know.

I like making pictures and stuff to go with them and if I get the chance to make a bit of cash along the way, that's a bonus.

Finally, please give a bit of consideration to what I said in my earlier post.  If it's good enough to use in a commercial render, it's good enough to pay for.  Every freestuff creator could decide to say "fuck it" and pull all their stuff overnight.  Make it for ourselves only, or sell it.  Then where would we be?  Thirsty, real thirsty.  Sorry, wrong movie but you get my drift.

Good luck with your venture, anyhow.  I'm being serious; I like to see fellow Poser people getting by. 

Wow --- I hear yah Samtherapy -- your situation is none the less a very trying one, that's for sure.

I just kind of was taken back about the "cheap" comment.

I appreciate the luck with the venture and I say that likewise towards yours as well  

I'm just building up libraries here at the momment, no where near ready to start selling yet with these headaches, and dealing with product support, etc.

You didn't see the ;) at the end?  Oh well.  Can't win 'em all.

Wow, Sam, now I see why you poofed during that time. I think Karma owes you some major good things from here on out. Sometimes I think we all get so focused on our own little crises, we lose sight of reality.

sorry --- missed the ;) at the end Sam.....

Add my vote for filters. Even adding a one letter flag to the already unwieldy filenames wouldn't make them much worse and would make it easier to categorize stuff after the fact.

Even with them though, people are pointing out that it isn't as simple as yes/no. My thought is that anything that makes money falls under commercial - better safe than sorry. So even if its a dress on a figure in a promo for a car model, if you're selling the car, it counts. That dress is part of the overall effort to make money. If it's of no significance, use another one. If you like it enough to reeealy want to use it then you'll have to pony up. If you use a render on a commercial web page or a graphic on a program you sell etc., it's commercial. Yeah, that may seem overbroad in cases but it covers the fact that when money starts being made, people are more likely to become more proprietary shall we say. Start from that premise and any surprises will more likely be pleasant ones.

I have no idea of ever making a penny on my puerile pixelations, but who knows. I certainly wouldn't maintain Kosher and non-Kosher downloads based on the slim prospect though. Again, how many people are going to download only CUA (Commercial Use Allowed) items or segregate downloads unless they're pretty sure they will sell stuff - maybe more than I think. Unless you plan to sell something, why would you limit your images to CUA content? If you don't then when someone suggest selling that image, then you still may have used non-CUA content in it. I suppose it's a good idea, just in case, just like it's a good idea to do a lot of stuff up front that people don't do because they don't think they will ever need it :-)

Not that I want to prolong a fight or anything but You should perhpas re-read your OP and decide if you dont think it was a little rudely worded.  Terms like snobbery and disgusting as I pointed out earlier started this one off on a hostile bent from the get go.  If I was the artist you had a beef with I'd find this thread very offensive.  If they havent read it that is for the best, if they have and have had the class not to respond good on them.   If it had been me, I'd either have come to this with a whole lot of flame or just asked the mods to outright lock it right off the bat.

I'm not trying to critisize or incite, just encouraging you to approach things like this with the tact and respect, regardless of whatever discomfort or hardships you face outside of the poserverse, especially if you plan on selling stuff.  I personally wont buy from vendors who dont conduct themselves to an acceptable standard on the forums they visit.

Quote - Steve,

I feel I wasn't rude at all what so ever until someone slammed my reputation with the Freebie comment. 

There's a difference between rudeness and defending one's self. 

I understand that its definitely not right to be rude to someone, I rarely am, except when I feel the need is there to explain it in no other way.

 

Well then all, I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone. 

I'll try to do better in the future.

And that makes it all good in my eyes. We should never be too right to apologize. Good going John! Thanks.

BTW I've had Bronchitis for two weeks. Can I get some cookies?

"

Again, how many people are going to download only CUA (Commercial Use Allowed) items or segregate downloads unless they're pretty sure they will sell stuff -"

me.  I only have kosher stuff in my runtime (except for maybe some things that slipped into one of my runtimes when I was a real newbie, but I am very careful with what I do with that particular runtime).

But then I don't eat oinkie animals either.

Hope you find another model that does the job for you Ragtopjohnny.

Love esther

PS Sam, sorry to hear about all your troubles.  Hope things get better for you.

Quote - Well then all, I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone. 

I'll try to do better in the future.

It's all good. 

Just so long as we don't have a group hug. :D 

Omg! Group hugs! Love 'em!!!

Buys popcorn to watch Acadia trying to force Sam into a group hug.....This looks like it'll be fun to watch!

sam, I hope somehow things will improve.  maybe as spring approaches and the weather gets warmer.  just hang in there.

Love the group hug smiley Acadia!

I'm still hoping Acadia can make it over to see me and my family.  There will be one huge group hug then.  :)

Quote - I'm still hoping Acadia can make it over to see me and my family.  There will be one huge group hug then.  :)

OMG! I so want to do that!!! Just that stupid things that cost me time and money keep getting in the way! I was off on unpaid leave for 5 months last year, then I moved and had the extra expense of having to replace some major furniture pieces. I'm hoping that I can put some funds away this year to come out and see you guys!

Oh dear.

Guys and gals...

I didn't post the stuff about me to get sympathy or anything.  There are thousands of people who have been through stuff in the past few years.  I know of several here, some of whom make what I had to deal with look like a picnic, so I'm nothing special.

I consider myself a lucky guy; I have a great wife and two wonderful kids.  Life is always interesting, at least.

My reason for posting was just to say, forget about your headaches/bad luck/whatever problems you have and come here to enjoy yourselves.  Leave your troubles at the door and have a bit of fun.  That's what I try to do.

You know, some of the kindest, most gracious people I have ever met - here and in RL - have had to contend with some absolutely terrible things.  So next time you start to get stroppy with people on here, stop and take a look out the window.  Remember this is only the internet, not life and death.

I do appreciate the kind comments, btw.  Wouldn't be human otherwise.   But that really wasn't the point. 

Whenever yoou can, Linda.  You'll be made welcome.  Just hope you can stand chaos.  :)

I also wouldn't come down on stars (or used to be stars) wanting to charge for autographs. They see their autographs going for good money on ebay and other places. For the folks that come to comic conventions and the like to sign autographs, they are usually footing a good part if not all of the bill to be there... airfare, hotel, table space, photos, etc. The charge you pay to get in usually goes to the organizer and the convention center rental.

It's the same for musicians selling CDs and autographs after a performance. It's how they make money as usually they are barely getting by when you consider they have to pay for their crew and fellow bandmates. It's been said for years that most bands don't make their money from the concert performance, they make it from the merchandise sold.

I've paid for Star autographs as well as recordings with no qualms whatsoever. My voicemail greeting is a recording of Dick Tufeld as the robot from Lost in Space telling people "Danger Danger! My Sensors Indicate someone is trying to reach the Armstrongs! If they fail to leave a message after the tone, Another Bubble Headed Booby will be lost in space forever!" I gladly paid $25 for him to record that in 1998 at the Return to Earth celebration in LA when they premiered the Lost in Space movie. It's not something I'd ever sell and now that he has passed away just recently it's even more priceless to me. So yeah, if it's worth it to use, it's worth paying for.

Quote - ok this worth a flamewar?

Where did you think you were again? ;)

In all seriousness, meh. There is a touch of overreaction... on both sides of it. I mean shit, at least the guy asked.

--

Ah well... still got a metric ton or three of boxen to pack, and once I get all the moving stuff done, then maybe (maybe?) I'll be able to get a hard disk big enough to carry at least one runtime, so I can actually do stuff again CG-wise on this little beastie.

At least you little bastards get to play w/ your CG toys once in awhile. I'm stuck with wrestling $#@! CenturyLink just to get a DSL line out there. (OTOH, given the backyard, it's still worth it). 

On the plus side, getting my electricity from a utility that calls themselves a Public Utility District (hint: pronounce the acronym without giggling, I dare you) does make it light-hearted...

Cheers!

Exercise, Diet, Massages, Alternate Breathing Exercises, Yoga, Meditation & no computers will make your headaches go away. 

Quote - Exercise, Diet, Massages, Alternate Breathing Exercises, Yoga, Meditation & no computers will make your headaches go away. 

Repeating some very specific magical cantations while standing at the summit of Everest will work too. But you must get the words exactly right. ;P

Sorry, but I know more than one person who died decades early because they believed too strongly in the miraculous curative properties of non-mainstream medicine. I wouldn't trust a cure offered by someone who didn't know all of the details of my illness when I could be suffering from something very serious indeed.

But the suggestions certainly wouldn't hurt, and some of them probably have a decent likelihood of helping.

Yeah, I do walk the treadmill, walk a mile every day.  Hasn't done that much so far.  Getting second opinions soon, gotta find a good doc.  Tired of these, they've been listed as "Chronic Daily Headaches" as my Diagnosis, and they did rule out the PC (Thank goodness ;-)

Beginners yoga is much better than the treadmill.  Alternate nostril breathing works very well for headaches.  Not straining the eyes with computers, tv, & reading will stop the muscle strain that causes headaches.  The PC can not be ruled out if you still have headaches.  They are just wrong in saying so.  Your body is a book that only you can read.  It is your soul's life to read it.  Read it well for it is your destiny to do so.  Take control of your life.  Learn about yoga & meditation.  Most doctors are idiots working in small paradigms.  If you must do eye strain work take a break every 20 minutes.  Do yoga for your eyes.  Don't rely on idiots with MRI's to tell you what you should already know.

Quote - ...At least you little bastards get to play w/ your CG toys once in awhile...

[Windsor Davies]

Oh dear.

How sad.

Never mind.

[/Windsor Davies]

;) 

:)

I was just airing out the frustration a bit. After being all caught up in real-world stuff, I haven't had much time to do anything, well, fun online.

:)

I was just airing out the frustration a bit. After being all caught up in real-world stuff, I haven't had much time to do anything, well, fun online.

I know.  :)

Hope the move goes/is going/went well. 

Damn, you guys. Your real life struggles are ruining an opportunity to vent about dumb drama in the forums! lotza luv

Best set I ever bought was the Robot set for V3 by SamTherapy. For the eye textures alone. Excellent set!! I have used those eye textures in several comix.

And with freebies being non-commercial...

I'd rather pay a license for everything I use than get it free and deal with the gray area of the freebie creator's 'license' that can change at any mood. If I use something free a lot, I donate to the creator's paypal account if they add a button - sharecg mainly.

I think many of us Poser users are totally spoiled by how much incredible content is available all over.

Thanks for the compliment, Coleman.  I really should start making stuff for sale again.  :)

I know nothing (honesty just one of my weaknesses), but believe an artists work remains their property whether they sell the rights to it or not. I suppose its' an intellectual ownership issue. The fact that a question was asked "Do you mind if I use it?", and the answer "NO, as long as you pay me $x" is pretty much the answer I would have expected unless it stated may be used for free commercially. I guess sometimes it's not what the rights to use say, it's what they don't. Personally I think it was right to ask the question and acceptable to answer as the artist did.

Which ever way you look at it, call it promo usage, first take, rough cut etc etc, the work you display at stage one goes some way to ensuring you are able to progress, given the go ahead, hired, or whatever you want to call it to stage two. In that instance the whole process becomes commercial.

I tend to disagree with myself more than other people do :)

PS. I hear there is to be a Renderosity virtual boxing ring introduced to settle matters on any number of issues permanently    ......oh how I wish it were true

Quote - so when suddenly their best mate says, hey that's a nice picture you did last year - lets make some greeting cards, they suddenly find their runtime is full of all sorts of stuff that shouldn't be there, all mixed together with stuff that should be. Love esther

Exactly my problem right now. I got someone who seems to like a pic of me for some kind of RPG project as art or so. But the thing is, I never planned to make them to be sold or used in this way. And today I am no longer sure if I used free stuff where the creator of the model has allowed to be used as commercial or not.

Quote - Well,

I'm not going to mention names because I'm not like that.

I asked in an email to somoene who made a free model that was "For Private Non-Commercial Use Only....." in a commercial render for a product I'm setting up at the momment.

Note, its just for the render, nothing else, not to be resold, or anything like that.  You know what they told me?  They said "Glad you like the model, but if its used for commercial purposes I usually ask for the sum of $25.00."  Note, on that site, there is no price tag next to that model. 

WTF?  Why do people have to let the all mighty dollar get in the way of everything?  Some of us can't afford diddly right now, so I guess I'll be using another classic car that came with Poser instead of that one. 

Shame, I really like the artists work. But if snobbery is going to get in the way, I'll go else where. 

Like I said, not mentioning names, but am I being overly sensitive or you think I have the right to bitch about it?  I find it kind of disgusting, personally.  It's sort of like the persona of stars asking for 25.00 for autograph expenses.

 

Why are you asking people on the internet if you are entitled to your feelings?

I vote YES.

You are entitled to your feelings.

As far as the specifics go:

There are TONS of modelers who would love to have their product appear in a promo image since it begs the question, "Hey who's (insert model here) is that?

Seems like the OP just wants attention & validation, when all of the answers lie within. 

See the pot stirred.....

IP violation discussion aside, I would not regard a personal portfolio piece ("promo") as commercial use. Therefore, the original question may be without meaning.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

-Bill Clinton

Lets not start any bashing. If you do not have a constructive comments, don't reply.