I model in Lightwave 9.6 and just downloaded the newest version of Silo. I have found that I really like Silo and plan on doing all of my modeling with it for now. I am currently considering buying 3d-coat and would really appreciate any input you have about it, good and bad. Any input you have on other comparable programs would also be appreciated.

For the purpose of this question, let’s assume that I have just created a dress and a chair in Silo. I plan to use them in Poser.  I am not particularly happy with the polygon layout I have come up with for either the dress or the chair. I would like to use 3d-coat to improve the layout of the polygons with Retopo and then UV map and texture both objects. Is this feasible and what has your experience been with 3D-coat.

I would like to thank you in advance for your help.

I believe that would be highly feasible with 3D Coat.  I have done that myself with a few items, although there are aspects of the program's 3D paint features which I find awkward.  I know others have done some really impressive things with 3D Coat.  I haven't ended up using it as extensively as I'd like.  :sad:

Thanks Cage. Your input is greatly appreciated. I’ve also been thinking about making some really intricate wooden furniture. I have seen wood carvers take a chisel and do some incredible things like carve a dragon into the wood. I don’t have ZBrush, but my guess is that it would be good for this. There is also something in 3D-coat that looks like it might be able to do this. Anyone given it a try?

There are extensive voxel sculpting capabilities which (as I understand it) are somewhat similar to ZBrush.  Certainly, they have similarities with Sculptris.

A poster on another forum offers this comparison:

Quote - I think Zbrush is more better for high frequency details, its more consistent and faster but more rigid in its work flow, its mostly unfathomable in its workflow.

3DCoat is way more freeform and flowing and intuitive in its workflow(its ui at least) but its harder to get the really fastidious details. I like the modelling in it though, its like working with real clay, its a bit harder to get it where you want it, but its more satisfying in doing so.

http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69404

Interesting post on polycount. Lots of good information there. Thanks!

3D Coat is great for working on retopology. Some people say Topogun is better, and it it probably is if you're interested in retaining subdivision levels and high resolution detail for the optimized mesh. The retoplogy, UV mapping, sculpting and 3d paint features of 3d Coat provide for a wider range of capabilities for a fairly inexpensive program.

Thanks Paloth. I checked out Topogu and it looks like a really great program. It's on my list.

3D Coat is a great application with many great features.  It's Retopology tool and UVMapping functions are really good and very easy to use.

One thing to note though is that you can use Silo to do both, and while I believe the Retopology features in 3D Coat are better than in Silo, they are not that much better.   Have a look at the Surface tool in Silo rather than the Retopology tool though.

Secondly the UVMapping features in Silo are better than 3D Coat.  While they used the same unwrapping methods to produce the map (LSCM) Silo has a few extra features that enable you to improve the map.  The ability to pin vertices in Silo is invaluable, as is the Symmetry functions.

Saying that 3D Coats painting tools are really great, and while I found them a little awkward to start with they feel really natural now.  You will get better results from it with a good graphics card though.  I upgraded mine from an nvidia GT4 series card to a GTX470 and saw a real improvement in performace and quality of map.

Voxel sculpting is also a brilliant feature.  You can sculpt a highly detailed model then use the retopology tools to create a low poly mesh from it, preserving details with Normal maps is really easy.

In my opinion you don't need 3D Coat to do what you asked in the initial question.  However adding 3D Coat to your toolset will give you some really great tools and compliment Silo very well.

I speak as somone who has used both Silo and 3D Coat a great deal, they are both really great programs which I would not be without.

John.

 

Toxicwolf, just a question for you... Have you looked at the topographical, sculpting and UV  tools in Silo itself? Admittedly they aren't close to Zbrush, but with a little effort they are quite effective. I would recommend at least looking them over before buying a second program. Keeping the majority of your work in a single program does have some advantages.

Unfortunately Silo doesn't have anything but rudamentary paint tools so you need to look into something for that area, I use a combination of UV mapper pro, an older version of photoshop and Arguile. Again not Pixar grade pipeline but good enough for my purposes.

I've stared thru the window at Zbrush, and looked into 3d-coat but, to be honest the interfaces look too unfamiliar to me to spend that much on at this point. I'm afraid to tie up that much of my far too little cash and then find out I just can't learn whichever program I bought!

Hi Letterworks

3D Coat and Zbrush are a little odd interface wise it's true.  But 3D Coat is much easier to learn that ZBrush. 

I'd pick up the trial and see how you get one, I have some videos on using it in my youtube channel is that will help

http://www.youtube.com/user/Fugazi3D?feature=mhee

John.

John

Thank you and thank you for the great tutorials on Silo. They have made a real difference in my productivity. I’ll try out the surface tool. Thanks for the hint.

Letterworks

You and John are both right. I had not fully understood the available functions in Silo. I’m still learning it and my learning curve is way too flat. It will definitely take some time to develop a good process to properly and effectively create Poser Props and Figures. And thanks for pointing me to UV mapper. I’ll check it out.

There is a new retopo plugin coming out soon for zbrush. Its more expensive than the other apps you listed, but its functionality is unmatch for many features like sculpting.

I loved 3D-Coat at the time I used it. The items in the attached image were modeled in Hexagon and then retopo'd with 3D-Coat. After that I painted & textured everything in 3D-Coat and uv mapped it as well. Worked great. Before using 3D-Coat I had no experience with an application as such, but found it very easy to use. My only negative experience was that it would crash once in a while and the undo feature wasn't working every time. But that was a year ago.

I stopped modeling clothing, not my thing, even though I liked the results. I went back to modeling props (buildings) and for that I didn't find 3D-Coat too useful, much quicker results with more traditional texturing, so I ended up selling my license. But for the time I owned it, I was very pleased with it.

 

Thanks everyone. This is very helpful.  Here is the table I am thinking about carving. It is based on one my wife bought that has lots of dragons and intricate carving in the wooden body and legs.

This will be a poser prop. This render was done in Poser Pro 2012. Everything I will be making will be for Poser.

HI John,

Whitout stealing the thread I just want to say thanks for the link! Great info on both Silo and 3d-Coat. I did try a demo of the program a few years back and wasn;t real comfortable trying to learn it on my own but your videos have me thinking to give it another serious try.

Thanks again

3D-Coat is great for importing low-poly models and adding detail to them using a normal map so it looks like a hi-poly mesh when you're done.  You can sculpt various shapes using voxels that resemble clay, which you then do re-topology on so that you have a lo-poly model with a normal map applied.  Again, it looks hi-poly.  The obvious uses for such models are in video games that use trickery to make their scenes look hi-res when all the content in it is lo-res.  Keeps the frames per second high.

ZBrush and Sculptris (Sculptris is free) are about creating high-detail organic figures and busts.  ZBrush uses an interface that I could never get used to.  I bought the program 10 years ago, and have been getting every upgrade since then for free.  But I don't use ZBrush.  I'm not a head sculpter.  It can do hard edge modeling as well, but I have so many other programs that do hard edge modeling that I already know how to use and I like their interfaces.  I use Hexagon 1.21 for my organic modeling.

I like 3D-Coat's painting and sculpting better than modo's or Hexagon 2.x's.  3D-Coat is updated every three weeks on average with new features and bug fixes.  Bugs are fixed within a few days after being reported (that has been my experience when I've reported bugs).

If you absolutely need hi-res head modeling (down to the skin pores that you want your camera to focus on), ZBrush is for you.  If you like working with lightweight models that are not RAM intensive (that are to be used for medium shots and for use in your scene's background), 3D-Coat is for you.

Thanks Shawn. I

I don’t intend to do any organic models. I will be making clothing props and figures. Also props for furniture and other hard objects for use in Poser. I will try to keep it all backward compatible. Back to Poser 5 and up to Poser Pro 2012.

Attached Link: http://farmpeeps.com/farmpeeps_products.html

I have tried all these apps in my pipeline, and coming prior from CAD user perspective, I would think the furnature would be best skinned with carved venieer strips with a NURBS app such as MoI3D or Rhino3d. Even Alibre Design would be fine.  SubD isnt needed for hard, non-deformable surfaces and you will easire time replicating intricate design carvbings along the surface, maintaing consistant depth. This way you could scale it, 3D print it or even send it to your CNC router for the real thing.    In Z-Brush you could scratch along teh surface, maybe use a spline to control pattern path.  Beter yet, stamp an impression.  Still it would be harder to make IMO than a design package were po.s & dim. values and ratios can be maintained as you go along the surface.

With regard to character figure modeling, and re-topo work high resolution meshesl work (for game development?) I tried 3D coat first (OK by hand, kind of cumbersome,auto reto didnt produce decent results though and needed total rework on my complex and under tucked samples)   then Topogun (Much better to pick up, nimble and rather intuitive. Could actually be fun but then you get out of hand..).  But now days I model in Z-Brush.  It was the game changer for me, as it has phenominal modeling and painting capabilities. Works great with Poser if you get the mesh subttool grouping export process down  to keep mesh from tearing... (? me if you get stuck w/ that).  

ZB was a major investment in time and effort learning but its a joy when you get the hang of it.  Expend to spend lots of time staring at the interface....wondering WHY.   Also in the freetrial period, like an autodesk product - you will never break ice and warm up before you cant save anymore and need to decide.  Its heck of a bullet to bite.  And just when you get the current version down, another one is out.  ZBrush is a rapid development team for sure.  

oh today I posted lots of 3D game development stuff that you may be interested in at farmpeeps.com  Terrains, skyboxes and even a 3D demo game using hardware acceleated Flash Stage3  technology.  Link attached

Good luck Toxic Wolf and happy modeling...

I use 3d Coat all the time for re-topologizing meshes, it's quick and easy and does a very good job.

I would go with 3D Coat as opposed to Silo.  Silo is no longer being supported; just go by the forums and read the threads.  3D Coat on the other hand is being updated monthly.  Silo still does not support a 64 bit version and no plans for the development of one.  Something to consider on purchasing abondonware.

Thanks Dreamcutter. Sounds really great. I'm going by your site now. I'm going to check out Rhino 3d and take another hard look at ZBrush. I think I will be spending a lot of time carving wood for furnature.

InfoCentral. I noticed that. They could be down the drain.

Thanks DarkEdge. It is still on my list and for the price it seems like it would be nice to have around even if I pick up other programs to go with it.

You probably noticed Rhinos price. Should have warned you.  Do try http://moi3d.com/ Its affordable and you WILL be able to make this project within the trial.  Its a snap to learn and nurbs model. You can also easily group a single mesh by applying various texture to any area of the mesh, key to make hard models interactable in Poser, such as car doors opening.  The textures will be retained as group names, and you can weld on export.  Great for quick prototyping unique shapes and paterns.  Awesome at turning and booleans.  You can put graph paper or a template, on background. Sketch a spline, flip perspectiove 90 either rotate on axis, or add a sketch another curve and sweep a face to create a form.  Extrudes, Filets offsets, blends all the necessary tools are within easy reach.  Its that easy.  The  Rhino is high nd and much more complex, however very capable.

One big downside with MoI... Last I checked it didnt import obj, just .3ds and common cad files. It WILL export all these into .oj though.  I think its because its as NURBS  needs the interspace data not just the relational vertex data stored in a obj.

Hey, I was under the impression that the OP already HAD Silo, and I was just suggesting the he look into the tools he already owned. Then again, if I'm the only one that doesn;t have the money to drop on 3D-Coat or Zbrush without exhausting the limits of the tools I have then, heck, I not only feel foolish for suggesting it but extremely inferior as well, LOL.

Silo is definitely worth having because it is so quick and easy. It has limitations that the others do not have, but in many ways that is a good thing.　 All it does is model and I like it that way. I don't even have one of those fancy Printer, Scanner, Fax Machine things. I like to get everything separate. Don't know why.

I will definitely need a high end sculpting program. Deciding on that one will be the hard part.

Pricewise Rhino is right up there with ZBrush, actually a little more expensive. I will spend some time checking moi3D.

Quote - . If you absolutely need hi-res head modeling (down to the skin pores that you want your camera to focus on), ZBrush is for you.  If you like working with lightweight models that are not RAM intensive (that are to be used for medium shots and for use in your scene's background), 3D-Coat is for you.

I'm not sure if I do agree. 3DCoat would  be vey usable for the situation you describe. It can do both..... high res for close up and medium and background. 3DCoat isn't for retopy only. You can model very detailed things with it and never use retopo. It depends on what you need. Low res? use retope. High res? use voxels and the other great tools 3DCoat has to offer. If you have 3DCoat and suddenly need high res very close up stuff, no need to rush out and get Zbrush then. 3DCoat has all the tools you need already. Both worlds for less money. 

Thanks aeilkema. For the price, I don''t thiink you can go wrong with 3D-coat. Based on the stuff I have read about it, it is pretty easy to learn and will fill in some gaps even if you have a different carving program.