How safe is Poser for a younger audience?

A very, if not entirely, subjective question, I know, but I hope to gather some opinions before I get to my own conclution.

Here's the thing, my younger brother (15 years old) has always being interested in graphic art, he loves drawing, and enjoys my work with Poser, though he's unaware of Poser as it is, or the rest of the tools involved in the process of producing the renders so, lately, I've been thinking of introducing him to Poser.

The only reason I haven't, is because I don't know how responsable of me would be to give him that much "material" to work with (I see you naked Vickys).

I know this depends on how mature by brother is and how confortable we are talking and looking at the artistic side of it all, but my only concern is how fast Poser can go from being a tool for artistic expression to a porn making machine, one only have to modify a few letters of this very site's url to realize that.

I don't mind what he does in his room after midnight, he's on "that" age, that's fine, but I have no intentions of buying him a collection of porn magazines or paying for adult sites subscription, and I certainly don't want Poser to become that box of porn magazines.

Am I overthinking this? am I disorting the whole thing? Opinions are most welcomed.

At 15 he probably knows more than you think!!! Lol.

Should be no problems, if he is into graphic art, then allow him to get his own style.

Just because V4 can be naked does not mean he will want to render her so.

Let his imagination run free, with your help, and let him enjoy his new hobby.

All the best.

LROG

When I've introduced Poser/DS to young nephews and nieces, they haven't liked it enough to keep using it. They were mostly below teen age and, at that age, the nudity meant nothing to them. They weren't interested in it and quickly put clothing on the figures before playing with the program. Equating nudity with filth and shame is a learned concept, not an innate trait of human beings.

At 15, your brother is three years from being a legal adult. Nudity has a different meaning for him than for a child. Since he can draw, he can already put erotic fantasies to paper if he wants to. Poser/DS will be used in whatever artistic fashion he already is pursuing.

In other words, Poser is just another artistic tool. How it gets used is up to the person using it. The software does not transform the person.

Quote -  Equating nudity with filth and shame is a learned concept, not an innate trait of human beings.

And there you have it. If my parents and mentors had stifled my interest instead of encouraging it, I would not be the person I am today, comfortable with my sexuality, outlook on life and appreciation of the beauty of the human form. Better to have a mentor that guides you in these areas than having a teenager learning about it the wrong way, whether it be Internet porn or irresponsibly banging Suzi out behind the corn shed. I often wonder why a country as advanced as America still bows to the Victorian principles and morals. I am glad I was raised in a family of poets, artisits and free thinkers.

C~

Quote - How safe is Poser for a younger audience?

That you're asking the question suggests that you think that some aspect of Poser may be unsafe.
You haven't said what that aspect is, neither have you provided details of the social context which makes you think that.  

Quote - Am I overthinking this? am I disorting the whole thing? Opinions are most welcomed.

Without knowing the social context in which you're asking, there is no way to answer.  

On the assumption that the aspect is related to nudity, then the best comparison would be to unclothed plastic dolls or figures from classical art.

How "safe"? Do you think that he can have an accident? ;)

It depends of you, your family, environment, etc.

I think that he is 15, testosterone is leaking from his ears. He can watch porn move in the Internet or create his own naked scenes. Internet porn sites offer nothing. Poser porn scenes let him learn 3D software and match (if he read BB tutorials). BTW I think that if young guy get foreign edition of porn magazine, can be good way to study another language ;)

Anyway - it depends of your customs.

Hi consider Getting him Daz studio 4  Instead

Your entry cost is Still Zero ATM
The default Genesis is  a Gender  neutral "Ghola" with Zero visible Sex organs not even Nipples IIRC.
Making it a little more "family friendly" for younger users

Cheers

Well first, I assume that you have discussed or would discuss it with your parents first. Ultimately, you're the one who’ll get blamed if his mug ends up on the evening news :-) If this were the 1950s I might be more concerned, but kids these days have access to the freaking internet. Heck, there’s more sex ‘n sin in Time magazine these days than there used to be in “adult” publications. My point is that there’s nothing in Poser that he hasn’t seen elsewhere in far more detail if so inclined – Vicky doesn’t even have genitals. As for Poser fostering some latent pornographer gene, as gagnonrich said, if so inclined, he’s already done it on paper. If he finds 3D nudity more compelling than the real deal readily available, then at least, he’ll probably turn out to be a good nude artist/pornographer/whatever.

I’m not sure of your gender. If you are a male, then you probably know that the fear of turning a 15 year old boy into a hornd.. excuse me, a being with a rather enthusiastic interest in sex, is like the fear of running out of ice cubes on the Titanic. If you have serious doubts, you can probably find a professional counselor, perhaps on the internet, for free or cheap and ask them. I’d actually be interested in what they would say. Nothing is 100%. I’m sure there are a few adolescents with specific problems who might be harmed, but I would think that they would be the rare exception. It does sound though like your concerns are less about harm than the icky-ness factor maybe? If you gave him $100 he might buy drugs (or porn), a knife, he might harm someone etc. etc. At least with Poser, you can discuss his art with him. If you have an open, comfortable relationship and he does nudes then you can discuss that if you want.

Since IMO, nudity does not automatically equal pornography he could do nude Vickies and be solidly within the mainstream of art no? If he does a nude render and you are going to consider it a bad thing and become dismayed, without regard to its nature, then maybe you shouldn’t get Poser for him. He may end feeling that he has to hide some of his best work from you. Point him to the free DAZ Studio download and you won’t have subsidized the process.

Create a runtime with just the casual characters, Andy and Andrea and some hair props that come with Poser. Have that be the only one that it starts up with and he should be OK I think.

That is an interesting challenge.  Artisticly speaking I was a rather precosious (sp) child.  At 9 I was asking why I couldn't draw from nude reference books because I saw no reason not to, I just wanted to know what the body looked like under the clothes so I could figure out how to drape the clothes properly.  The adults were all concerned. I didn't know what the fuss was.  :) OF course this was in 1963.  I was drawing half of the day.  I prefered it to playing with toys, other kids or other activities.  Anyway ... I agree with the approach most of the posters have expressed.

To me, after reading my past ... I would ask your brother how HE feels about these issues. LIsten to him.  IF it seems an issue after hearing his thoughts then act accordingly. 

I had wanted to introduce my partner's grand kids to Poser, but decided against it because of the religious beliefs or thier parents and they are too young.  But 15 ... that's a boarderline age.  IMHO.

Boni

I guess it all depends on how hung up you are about nudity.  I'd let my kids use it at any age, without a second thought.

I've let my son, who is 8, use poser. He's not over flowing with testosterone but I still don't think it's a good idea for him to be playing with nudes so I set up some runtimes with non human figures. Animals, robots, cartoon characters, etc. He also has to use the computer in the kitchen. If it's doable, set it up so your brother will need to use poser in a place your family frequents.

It’s also likely that any interest he developed in an inappropriate direction might well be a temporary thing. Between the complexity of posing, and the limitations of the stock female figures (unless he renders only males), doing good explicit erotic work (as opposed to say pinups) is probably a lot harder than ‘regular art.’ He’d probably get frustrated pretty quickly at not being able to come close to what he’s seen and move on. OTOH, if he has the patience and determination to keep at it then, as I said before, at least he might end up being good at it. Whether that would be a bad thing is a matter of opinion.

"I guess it all depends on how hung up you are about nudity.  I'd let my kids use it at any age, without a second thought."

Yeah, but you guys let your convicts carry lighters :-) Seriously though I’d probably agree with the caveat that I’d be extremely worried/careful that their little friends didn’t see it, that they didn’t talk about it… I would not be at all surprised if someone here (USA) got a visit from Child Protective Services and maybe worse over a naked Vickie – complete with blaring headlines about ‘8 year olds exposed to pornography.’

Quote - At 15 he probably knows more than you think!!! Lol.

I agree. If my kids were still 15, I'd let them use Poser no problem.

As for ppl equating nudity with being dirty - I've never seen such a reaction as the "wardrobe malfunction" at the halftime show with Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake. I mean, they're only BOOBS! LOL It wasn't like they were doing it on stage ffs....lol. People are....strange. ;)

Laurie

Kids play with naked dolls and my neice who was 10 at the time has played with Poser. The naked body is not shameful or dirty but if you are worried about what he would do with the content then perhaps limit the content to just animals, props and the more doll like human characters.

You guys bring up excellent points to consider, as I knew you would :). My thanks to everyone.

I didn't want to come up as closed minded on the subject, in fact, it's the opposite, I have no problems with nudity at all, I never understood the difference between upper torso nudity in man and woman, I always found it bizarre.

To be fair, I think I'm underestimating my brother, (or, overprotecting I guess) but well you know, he's my "little" brother, right? heh. I'll introduce him to Poser next time we are in the subject of drawings and renders, he'll enjoy it, no doubt on that.

Sounds good! Let us know how things go.

I thought about letting my #1 daughter use Poser when she was younger, but I decided not to, because I wanted her to develop her own style, and she has enjoyed working with classic media.  I think 15 is probably a good age to introduce Poser to an aspiring artist...

Does he have any art books?  If so, then flip through those and see what's inside. Or you can play it safe and talk to mom and dad about it first. 

However, if he wants to make poser porn, he will be able to.

Is there an installation option in Poser that asks if you want to install content for mature audiences ?  I thought I saw that during the installation process.  I believe the so-called kid-safe content only gets installed.

Then again, I've seen kids below the age of 10 playing games with blood and gore spilling all over the screen, so what is Poser nudity... oh well.

From what I understand, a fairly sizable number of teen boys already have naked photos of their girlfriends on their phones.  Given the potential legal consequences of that, I'd be much, much more concerned about my little brother having a cellphone than Poser.

as everyone has said poser isnt JUST for nudes, is lots of anime style comics etc done in poser, or you could "hedge" your bet a little an show him bryce/hexagon (if there still free) he may like landscapes or modeling more then poser or theres blender does a bit of everything and has a game engine!! a good FPS can make me forget girls for a while ;-)

tbh, if he's anything like half the teenagers i've met in recent times, the things he has stored on his mobile phone would probably make you freak. lol   I think the nudity/no nudity figures question is valid but at the end of the day if you restrict the content and he is determined he will find a way to get it. Heck most 15 year olds nowadays can run rings round me with their techno savvy. It really depends on where his tastes, preferences lie. All you can do is point him in the right direction and then trust as to his better judgment

There is no problem with something "nude".

The only "nude" problem we have is more between our own two ears.

At 15, and with all what is all over the net?
I would see Poser as a very clean app.

As others, I am more worried about facebook, twitter, MSN and the cellphone...

I would consider peer pressure in your decision.

Does he have friends who are likely to say 'Wow you got Poser, you can make all kinds of porn pictures with that and share them around" or even worse "You can get all kinds of stuff for Poser from +++ site without paying for it" Then I think it may be a bad idea because he is at risk from being thought of a a sleaze, and getting drawn into sordid places and bad ideas.

If he has the strength of character to resist those kinds of temptation ( and I would certainly warn him to avoid pirate content anyway) then ok.

There's nothing wrong with the naked body and if your brother wants to see porn, I highly doubt his first thought will be to use Poser.  If he has access to the internet, he'll find a way to get his fix.

Give the kid a chance to use his creativity with Poser without worrying about naked bodies.  If you stop and think about it a moment, naked bodies do not equal porn.  Da Vinci painted Leda & the Swan, Michelangelo painted numerous nudes... the nude body does not equate sex or porn.  It's great that you're thinking of the best for your brother, but maybe overthinking just a bit, lol.

I guess it depends, I mean when I was 14 I use to look at stuff far beyond what poser can do. And if he is 15 and has internet access well yeah. Teens use the net every day, so really I'm sure that if he sees the virtual character naked it probably doesn't phase him or wouldn't. And figures only start off naked if you add a new morph onto it otherwise Victoria's defualt isn't nude at all. If your concerned, then just wait until the boy is about 17 and then let him use it. Hell my mom had no problem with telling me No I can't use this or that if I wasn't old enough if she knew it had something in it that wasn't appropriate for me to be  using it. There isn't anything wrong with nudity in the first place. Never understood why people were so concerned about that. You can't even do anything sexual with the figures automatically. You'd have to either  buy poses that can allow him to do that, or he would have to be extremely good with the program to customly pose them in that way, which even pros have problems with executing properly. So you have nothing to worry about at all when it comes down to Poser.

Are you your brother's legal guardian? If not, you should discuss this with your parents, or whoever is his legal guardian, and abide by whatever their decision is.

Quote - ...I never understood the difference between upper torso nudity in man and woman, I always found it bizarre...

Hmmm... I see difference ... and I like it ;)

I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said at least once, but want to stress that the decision needs to be made by your parents unless you are his guardian (like someone else asked). I wouldn't be too happy with anyone making these sorts of decisions for my children.  :)

Poser is a tool, just like a paintbrush or pen and paper.

So I'm going to counter your question with another.

How safe is a paintbrush for a younger audience?

That depends on the age of the child and,  how recently I decorated the room they are in.  ;-)

Unless you give the person a chance to use the software, you will never know what heshe will make of it.

Today's kids are so wrapped up in cotton wool by their parents that they will never be able to anything for themselves until they are a certain age.

The peron could be the next Boris or Olivia, talant comes with using something, not by other peoples ideals.

All the best.

LROG

Paganeagle,

I agree with you so long as the child is not put in danger. After all what would have happened to young Mozart if his parents had insisted he should be outside getting fresh air, instead of inside practising piano...

The thread is about the curtrent time frame ot the 1700's.

DIfferent time, different place, different values.

All the best.

LROG

I had been drawing in pastel cvhalks for a year or so when my parents got me a book of "Faces and Figues in Chalk." I was 14. Yes, I ate it up. Being able to draw naked girls was a thrill, but I don't believe I EVER drew anything "inappropriate" read "Sexual" until after I became sexually active. You draw what interests you AND that is within your frame of reference.

Poser is just another drawing tool.

It is the mind that uses the tool, not the tool.

Poser cannot create anything without someone using it.

A pen or paintbrush on it's own cannot do anything.

It's what it is put to that upsets people.

Amazing that people get upset by Poser etc. but will happily walk around a gallery with their children, looking at all those rubenesque paintings.

All the best.

LROG

The best advice was to keep an open mind but to discuss it with the boys parents.

NOT only and just for the naked part, but also financial...
The cost of Poser and the cost of add-ons..
The Internet "trap" to but stuff, fast and cheep.
Untill you reach the first 1.000$ => Oh!

It all adds up rather frightening fast.

Interesting thought, all these things are being brought up because the person that may use it is male......

Would the same things have been brought up if the person was a female?

Because the person is male it has been assumed that he would be making certain things, without any proof. Never assume anything.

Before anyone starts with the sexist comments etc. It is just a point and would be interesting to follow through with people points of view on allowing younger male or female users to use whatever software they want to make 3D art.

All the best.

LROG

Poser is not like a paintbrush. To create an image with traditional media you need to draw or paint it yourself, perhaps from photographic references, or you need to get someone to pose for you. That may not be so easy. Poser artists use a lot of image material that was previously created by other people, and a lot of it is explicit. Poser models have no inhibitions and infinite patience and will do anything for you if you know how to make them do it. And let's face it, a lot of the images produced with Poser are not art at all. They are just pictures, and many of them serve merely to titillate, not to make any artistic statement. That's fine, I have no problem with that. If his parents say it is OK, then fine. But they must be able to make an informed decision.

I see art.

All the best.

LROG

Attached Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_Law

As with all media, I think Sturgeon's Law applies to Poser.

I alway work on, if you can't show it your mother, then you know somethings wrong.

I thought the 99%'er were in South Park??? Lol.

All the best.

LROG

That particular image I also see art.

Rule 1:  The welfare of a child must come first.  Speak with his legal guardian(s) about Poser in general and how it would relate to your brother's current and future artistic trends.  Unless there is some hidden agenda on your brother's part, the odds are good that what he is drawing now is what he will start to try in Poser.  Naturally, if he has the full library, he will want to see what it has and, if he draws humans, he pretty much needs to start with a nude Poser figure in order to dress and pose it.  If and how he dresses and poses it would again probably start with what he is drawing, within the limits of the program.

Unless he keeps any naughty art hidden so you have know idea he drew any or secretly draws such things for his friends, I doubt having a nude Poser base required for most anything else will really matter.

Still wondering if these rules would apply to a girl?

Why assume there is a hidden agenda?

Perhaps he has already seen what can be done with whatever system of 3D software and would like to have a go, but is afraid to ask in case people assume he just wants to make porn when he wants to do whatever he really wants to do.

All the best.

LROG

Might need to keep all those males away from this:-

LINK

You never know what they might draw. Now that's me assumig!!! Lol.

All the best.

LROG

There are almost always different rules (stupid or not) for boys and girls. For example you might not let your 15 year old daughter walk somewhere alone, but might let your 15 year old son.

I think it goes without saying that males are much more "visual" than females...most of the time lol.

But this is about 3D and art.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - Still wondering if these rules would apply to a girl?

Not picking a fight, just saying.  I read what you posted before about gender and society but, since you posted this right after I posed my Rule 1, I will just say:  My rules apply regardless of gender.  If the OP was asking about a younger sister, most if not all of the advice given here would still apply.  Might it have been written / directed differently?  Maybe, but the question posed by the thread title is gender neutral; it is the gender of the specific younger sibling that makes you wonder about our assumptions and direction of the responses.  Forest for the trees, perhaps. :)

Yep, I know your not picking a fight, but it is an interesting thing to get people views.

Now, here I go with a little assumption of my own.

Could it be that those that have a problem with younger users using poser and seeing a naked figure would have problems explaining about the consequences of seeing that naked body.

I have a Great niece that is just over 2 and when she is old enough to ask certain questions, she will be told in a way that she will understand about that question.. None of that, errrr come back in a few years type of thing.

So, perhaps it is down to the parents to talk to their children.

Plus we do know that when M4 or V4 loads up they are not naked at all, the have 2nd skin clothing on them. So, it would be easy to set up a runtime that only had specific items in it if parents had a problem with them.

More opinions sort and listend to with interest.

All the best.

LROG