At risk of asking a question that has doubtless been asked before (but I can't find a satisfactory answer) - what height is V4.2 when scaled to 100% in Poser 2012?

I have two measuing props that I've picked up over the years and they are scaled differently:

On Dr Geep's she comes in at 6'2"

On FireAngel's she comes in at a slightly more modest 5'10"

Which is correct, or are they both wrong? It would be handy to have a measure that I know I could rely on!

Oh no!

Who has popcorn?

While we're at it, can I get the following measurements for her, so I can flat-draft her some realistic clothing?

Overbust, Bust, Underbust, Waist, Hip, Waist to Hip, Bust Apex to Waist, Back of Neck to Waist, Seat Depth, Armscye, Neck Circumference, Neck to Shoulder, Waist to Knee, Waist to Ankle, and Inseam.

Thanks!

(I'm totally kidding...unless anyone actually HAS these measurements, in which case...I'm totally serious!)

Why do you need to know?

Using PP 2012's internal scaling system, V4 is 194cm / 6'4".

To measure things in Poser, I use a calibrated prop that is 1x1x1 meters.

You can easily create such a prop by setting Poser to metric units, then move a prop along the y-axis exactly 100 units.

Scale a cube so that it is as big as that 100 unit distance.

Export it and re-import it.

That's your 100 unit (= 100 centimeter or 1 meter) prop.

By scaling or moving it you now can easily measure everything in your virtual Poser universe.

So, if I dust off the old Geometry, I theoretically *could *get all the measurements I was looking for, more or less. Sweet. Joe, you are a genius!

Sadly, I am not and I must now go look up how to find the circumference of an oval. 

http://www.csgnetwork.com/circumellipse.html

:-)

This has been debated and debated like forever. PhilC's toolbox I think comes with a measuring system. Dr. Geep I believe released a ruler prop that is different.

All things being relative, she is too tall for an avg female in my opinion. There is the SP4 morph set that can make her petite and it also has a shorter morph that you can dial her down in relation to other characters in the scene if you have them.

I vary my characters height all the time short and tall females with each other and tall and short males with each other and various height male and females in the same scene. I use a combination of proprogating scale and various body actors scaled in Y and created my own pz2 files to do this in approx 1.5 inch increments from the starting height between 4-8 and 6-2 using I believe a ruler that I think came from Dr. Geep. But again they are relative to each other and that is all that matters to me. If my 5-0 is really somebody elses 5-2, I don't care.

As an example Tom Cruise is 5-7 and he has been in a recent movie with Cameron Diaz who is 5-9 barefoot, yet he appears taller even when she is in heels. It's all relative to what you are trying to project.

You are going to hear people say V4 is 5-11 and other say 6-0 and some say 6-1 and other say 6-4. Search the forums and you will see threads going back several years that have tried to argue their point of the exact height. Which in my mind is meaningless as long as everything in the scene is relative to the characters height and they vary if there are more then one character in the same scene.

YMMV

Gary

Quote - Using PP 2012's internal scaling system, V4 is 194cm / 6'4". To measure things in Poser, I use a calibrated prop that is 1x1x1 meters.

LOL

I know you're trolling, BH, but I still bite.

Care to share what you find so amusing ?

As a 40yrs + scale modeller it's extremely important to me that everything in my renders has it's correct proportions and everything I've built is in exact the same scale.

If you've found a better/faster way to make sure that a model of a real live 1.67m tall woman is actually 1.67m tall in Poser and a model of a 5.19m long car is actually 5.19m in Poser, I'm all ears.

:lol:

Quote -
I know you're trolling, BH, but I still bite.

Care to share what you find so amusing ?

i actually wasnt trolling, i was laughing my ass off that she was 6'4"

Ok, then I apologize, BH.

But I just assumed Vickys absurd default size in Poser was well known and not "laugh-worthy" anymore. :-)

To be fair, Poser changed it's default scale twice I think over the years and so she loads a bit smaller in Studio and also doesn't have the proportions of a 6'4" tall woman.

But it's just one of many things that demonstrate that V4 was mainly created with Studio in mind, not Poser.

It's an easy fix, but still annoying as so many things are created and scaled to match default V4 instead of actual real world items.

i knew she was built to ridiculously amazonian proportions, but not her exact height.

6'4" -- with the platform heels most people render her in, that would put her at nearly 7 feet tall, LOL.

many content creators are generally going to scale things to either poser figure (alyson, ryan) or daz figure (vicky, mike, genesis) scale. for example the soccer ball i tossed into freebies was scaled for Alyson, which would make it child-sized if anyones rendering it with Vicky unless they scale it up.

i just usually eyeball everything, but it would be nice if you guys with the measuring sticks could figure out an exact scale factor to scale things from Alyson > Vicky scale, and Vicky > Alyson scale. it would make it easier for people :P

Get Vicky down to 90% (and her head to 105%) and she's pretty much the same size as Alyson 2.

So...

V4 x 0.9 = Alyson

and...

Alyson x 1.12 = V4

:-)

I was curious as to how much reliance I could put on the ruler props I had and, using JoePublic's method (neat!) the answer would appear that they are both inaccurate in P2012 (although Dr Geep's is closest).

By taking a cube primitive, moving it on the y axis 1 unit (I am using feet as the measurement in Poser settings here) and then scaling a second cube primitive accordingly I discover that 1 foot / 12 inches requires that second cube to be 116.8% on the Y scale.

Now placing a cube against V4.2 at 100% and stretching the y-scale on the cube until it bi-sects the top of her head I get a y-scale of 734.4%. In my picture I've reduced the x-scale of both cubes also, but you get the idea.

Now, by my reckoning, if 12 inches = 116.8, then 1 inch = 9.73, so I can calculate what 734.4 equates to in inches.

This comes out with a height of just over 6 feet and 3 inches (just under 6'3 1/2"). Now, I'm not foolish enough to claim that this is a definitive answer, but it's useful to know as a starting point for relative sizes.

I could, of course, now measure things more accurately, using Joe's method, and scale my ruler props accordingly...

(stands back to observe the debate further...)

Since I haven't yet got to grips with scaling stuff myself in Poser very well, I have a handy prop that I got from Laurie, if I need to use V4 in a scene with other figures, standing up...

http://www.sharecg.com/v/51569/View/11/Poser/Wooden-Crate-with-Apples

...just tip it upside down and stand Miki, Antonia or whoever on it...

In a few years she will start shrinking, as all people do.

If you an not wait?
Put her in a fridge.

:-)

Attached Link: http://www.morphography.uk.vu/scaleobj.html

I must update that chart with the P8 adults some time, now I have the Poser Debut content available to me. 

Great article, EnglishBob.

It should be included in the Poser manual. (And printed out by everyone creating Poser content)

Oh, and above render should answer your question.

;-)

(Aneta is 1.64m tall and the Lancaster specs are 31.09m x 21.18m )

Thanks Joe. With a father-in-law who actually worked on these things during the war, I of all people should know that Lancasters don't have nosewheels. I'd better amend my page for the second time today (I just added the P8 figures to the table).

:huh:

The scale shift around Poser 6 and DAZ never went with the changed scale, not many other people did either. She is intended to be 5'10" or so and I think that is what she is pre shift and in DAZ Studio. Still too tall, especially for her proportions but not 6'4."

the DAZ specs on Steph 3 say: Approximately 5'2" Tall (Assuming Victoria 3 is 5'10" Tall). This last assumption will prove wrong.

For the sake of it, I've just measured in PoserPro2012:

V4.2 measures 192.8 cm

V3sr2, V2RR and V1RR all measure 193.3 cm

all within 0.1 cm accuracy.

To me, that's 6'4". Using a very scientific method: Zero Figure, then bend the feet so she stands flat on the ground (!), Ctrl+D to ensure the tough, note the Y-value, dial her down till she just disappears under the ground (works for mothers in law too), note the Y-value again, take the diff. And do use Front/Left/etc cam's, no perspective ones.

P4 Woman measures 185.5 cm, P2 Woman measures 181.5 cm. So they shrink indeed when they get older :)

S3 measures 179.0 cm = 5'10". Not 5'2"

From DAZ documentation, S3 is created from a real person body scan, so besides her length, proportions should do.

The length of S3 matches a Dutch / Swedish young adult, the length of V4 is somewhat exaggerated even for a Dutch / Swedish supermodel. She's absolutely unfit for the standard size 38 catwalk job.

The default Poser cube measures 1/10 PNU. 1 PNU (Poser Native Unit) = 8.6 feet (not 8'6" !!) = 262.128 cm (Ref manual, mind the precision). So 1 foot = 10/8.6 = 1,163 Poser Cubes as found by questo.

Some popcorn left, BB?

We all agree about the ratios between a PNU and the various other units according to Poser. No amount of arguing will change the 103.2 inch = 1 PNU fact in Poser today.

Where some disagree is whether the Poser size of an inch/meter/foot is wrong and has been since Poser 6. The argument against it is simply that the most popular figure (V4) will not fit furniture, cars, or guns made to that scale. Therefore - it must be wrong and the furniture etc. is the wrong size.

According to this philosophy, it does not matter what Poser says is the height of V4 - her height is officially approx. 5' 10" and our technique of measuring her according to the program's measuring system is simply incorrect - prima facie.

Then you get Dr. Geep, where the scale is based on a desire to type inch-motivated numbers into OBJ files by hand, and nothing agrees with it in either the Poser scale or the de facto Vicky scale.

I haven't checked the scale of many things in Poser but the scale I build to - and which seems to work with most figures - is that I model in Wings to 1 Wings unit = 1 inch.  Then, when I export to Poser, I reduce the model to 1.115% and this seems to give a reasonable result.  

At least, nobody's said my Daleks appear to be too small or tall.  The average Dalek is around 5' 8", with the Mk1 being a little shorter and the Movie versions being a little taller, due to the different size fenders.  The horrible New Paradigm Tellytubby Daleks are in real life 6'1" but I haven't made one yet.

I don't really understand the discussion - whether poser calls V4 194cm or 181cm is irrelevant - to fit it nicely in the poser scaling universe, you just scale the figure to match the unit.

The only place where it matters is in things like furniture, architecture and vehicles. But you can scale those as well and you have to do some sort of scaling for most props anyway since most of them vary in the actual scale they are imported in poser.

Scaling an entire set of props proportionally is not difficult - parent them to a null figure and scale the figure. (or use the grouping prop in P9)

Just my 2 cents

Quote - I don't really understand the discussion - whether poser calls V4 194cm or 181cm is irrelevant - to fit it nicely in the poser scaling universe, you just scale the figure to match the unit.

The only place where it matters is in things like furniture, architecture and vehicles. But you can scale those as well and you have to do some sort of scaling for most props anyway since most of them vary in the actual scale they are imported in poser.

Scaling an entire set of props proportionally is not difficult - parent them to a null figure and scale the figure. (or use the grouping prop in P9)

Just my 2 cents

 

You're right up to a point.  The problems begin when several different props/people are made to several different scales.  Granted it's not the end of the world but it's still a fart about when you have to rescale stuff.  Far better for us to have a standard and stick to it, or at least to know when - and by how much - some things deviate from that standard.

You'll also run into problems when mixing different figures, since any realistically scaled stuff which looks ok when using pre V4 figures will likely look tiny when V4 is in the scene.  Or, V4 will tower over everything and everyone. 

Case in point - Mask-Da's guitars.  The new versions he makes now are fractionally smaller than his previous models.  Without knowing what "yardstick" to use there's no real way of knowing which are the correctly scaled ones, if any.  Fortunately, I know what size a Gibson Les Paul should be so I could always test things out to find which works best in my scenes.

well, let me put it this way: at some points Poser is touching the real world, and that's in Cloth Room, where gravity really equals 9.8 m/s2 and things like that. So internally Poser is pretty consistent.

It seems to boil down to: does an inch in program X equals an inch in Poser?

When we make an OBJ, it might depend on the way it is imported (rescaling). The Import routine can be used with different settings, and making a CR2 referring (or containing) OBJ info might have different effects as well. We can try for that.

In the past, BB created ClothSimSquares at 1x1, 2x2 and 3x3 mtr, using a mesh generator if I recall correctly. When opening those PP2's in Poser, they measure indeed 1x1 mtr etc.

When opening the V4.2 obj, it says: "file created by UVmapper".

The following simple square

WaveFront *.obj file (generated by CINEMA 4D)

g Plane
v -200 0 200
v 200 0 200
v -200 0 -200
v 200 0 -200
vt 0 0 0
vt 1 0 0
vt 0 1 0
vt 1 1 0
f 2/2 4/4 3/3 1/1

translated neatly to 400x400, in PNU. Unless I use "percent of standard figure size" at import in which case the largest dimension is scaled to 6' (as stated in the Ref Man).

So things look controlable to me. Perhaps we need a "one inch in Wings = 1.2 inch in poser" translation table or whatever. If Vicky is just a bit too tall for her environment, scale her down that bit. No?

On top of things, Vicky is known as a Poser Fashion Model. According to the Ref Manual (PPro chapter 9), a Fashion Model is larger than the ideal adult: 8.5 heads instead of 8 heads. One head is about 9 inches. So Vicky measures 8.5 * 9 => 76 inches = 6'4". DAZ completely delivered against Poser documented specs.

Steph measures 5'10"= 70" = 7.8 heads, just inbetween Adolescent and Ideal Adult.

So a chair with its seat at about 18" will force Vicky to sit deep, as can be expected from a girl of about 2 mtr on a seat at less than half a mtr.

Face it: Vicky is 6'4". When you want her to look like 5'10" then either you have to scale her down, or scale everything else up.

Fun times. I'll join.

Vue uses Poser scalling when importing Poser files. If a cube is 10" by 10" by 10" in Poser then it will be 10" by 10" by 10" in Vue. The nice thing about Vue is that it actually gives you the dimensions of your objects rather than making you guess. This is nice when you're trying to get proportions from different sources matched up...such as putting V4 (neck'd) in a temple that was made in 3DMax with a sword made in blender.

As for putting different Poser figures together...the (supposedly) reallistic ones I mean, not the cartoon ones...just make sure they all have the same size heads and it'll all come right.

okay, we had fun.

Actually, menu: Figure > Figure Height rescales and reproportions your selected figure.

V4 is set to Supermodel, but will fit your furniture better as Ideal Adult. Using Baby and scaling uniformly (35=>70%) makes decent dwarfs. v4 is as large as you want.

From Andy to AndyDwarf in a few clicks. Feels good.

I did not just scale the figure - the legs are 16% shorter and the arms are 12% shorter.

But ... I have Poser Pro 2012 SR3 Beta.

Okay, I wants it the SR3, I'll be able to make babies and kids I can pose.  :)

BB, how much further did you take down the arm and leg scaling in this latest example?

Upper arm 82%

Lower arm 75%

Upper leg 81%

Lower leg 81%

Cool, thank you.

I'm getting a little crease in the arm though. I may have messed something up. Poser crashed on me so I'm not sure I put everything back how I had it.

This reveals how much I changed the proportions.

LOL at that description, all I know is whether one wants to go up or down, this is going to be most useful.  My whole figure library can hardly wait.

Scaling working, really working? awesome... more than I could have hoped for on an SR.

It looks to me like scaling down exaggerates the curves. JCMs are perhaps forcing joints to be a certain size?

I don't know what's in the SR or what it used to do or what it claims to do now. I never tried this stuff before except one teeny tiny time. I just started messing with it because of this thread.

BB, did you scale/re-proportion yourself, or did you use the Figure Height menu option (it's there for a long time now, it behaves sort of similar) or is there a new SR3 option around?

Scaled myself.

Quote - BB, did you scale/re-proportion yourself, or did you use the Figure Height menu option (it's there for a long time now, it behaves sort of similar) or is there a new SR3 option around?

The figure->figure height menu options seem to explode V4's hands, in a rather alarming manner, LOL, in all but a couple of settings for me?

Is this not what others get currently with it?

Cheers

Quote - It seems that Vicky 4 is as tall as I want her to be.

I did not just scale the figure - the legs are 16% shorter and the arms are 12% shorter.

But ... I have Poser Pro 2012 SR3 Beta.

You are such a tease, Ted!  :lol:

I hope it works equally well on V4WM...

Quote - The figure->figure height menu options seem to explode V4's hands, in a rather alarming manner, LOL, in all but a couple of settings for me? Is this not what others get currently with it?

That's what it does for me as well; alarming is puting it mildly, as it looks like some sort of dissection experiment gone awry... :scared:

Not to be a party pooper, but V4 already scales quite well in Poser.

So I respectfully would like to see more evidence wether Poser's single-axis-scaling has been truly fixed by this new SR or not before I do the happy dance.

It definitely would change the way we could use figures in Poser.

That's why I said I don't know what it claims to do that it didn't do before. I just know that I'm having no trouble scaling. But I have software others do not yet have, and that may have something to do with it, or nothing to do with it. If nothing, then it turns out I'm using it right, and other people who say it doesn't work are using it wrong.

I have no idea.

What's an example of something that doesn't work?