Quote - It is in some way tied to the site (renderosity, runtimedna, etc) and in some way to the software (Poser & DazStudio). For some reason i do not know (perhaps because the Poser 4 woman was too well suited for pin up renders?), Poser and its main content sites specialized in the Naked-Vicky-in-a-Temple genre. Other sites/software specialize in different things, too. For example Vue is used mainly for rendering landscapes. There are characters for Vue as well, but the main content market focuses on various kinds of dirt, stones and plants, and the reason for that is not that there are more plants and rocks on the planet than there are humans, they just specialize because they want to (or need to) excel at one thing instead of being a jack of all trades. If it were a universal rule that mankind wanted to see naked Vickies more than anything else, it should be common to every software and content market, but it is not; at turbosquid for example there are more male figures than female figures, and no particular lamenting of the vendors that the male figures do not sell well (at least not as far as i know).

^vue, worldbuilder, bryce, terragen, etc have always been landscape-oriented software, therefore its no big surprise that their communities are primarily populated with landscape renders.  

 for a more accurate representation, go look at deviantart:  it is a MIXED-MEDIUM art site that focuses on no particular genre/medium and has everything from photography to sculpting to pixel art to 3D to writing. look at which photos, renders, illustrations and stories are the most viewed/commented.    

turbosquid is not an accurate representation of anything other than mass copyright infringement.

Quote - I would absolutely pay $150 for a male version of M4 as good as GND4.  But I can't prove it, and if I'm the only one who would, that's not very helpful. The kickstarter idea, though, is actually kinda cool.

In total agreement, although I'd need a couple of months pre-warning so I could amend my budget to save for it. Seriously. If I had the warning and could tuck my money away, I would totally throw it at Blackhearted's face IN ADVANCE for a male to match GND4 or GNDA. But, caveat...this is because I am fully confident in his level of quality. I wouldn't throw money at just anyone's face...it has to be someone that I have a trusting consumer relationship with.

Quote - > Quote - Again, still doesn't explain why no one's made a free male (that I know of) or why there is comparatively so little free content for males, yet I have downloaded three free females in the last year, four if you count V4WM, and free content for females is essentially infinite.

I guess makers of freebie male content don't get enough adoration, praise, and promises to the blood of firstborn sons?

 

I don't think it's so much about adoration as it is : Use my stuff. 

Like the, "if you make it, they will come" thing just does not seem to hold true and the content creators see that. As mentioned in one form or another before, we are in the grip of a nearly concrete cycle: Creators won't create things people don't seem to want but people can't want things if creators don't create them. 

I rarely post renders. Heck, I've been a member at RDNA for 7 years, I think, and I posted in their galleries for the first time last month. How are you going to know if I use your stuff?

ETA: I mean to say, Yes, vendors are able to create demand. And often do, probably without realizing it.

Based on the forums, I'd say DeviantArt is overwhelming youthful. Kids, in my experience (and again based on the forums there), are often horny, frequently scared of been thought of as homosexual (even when they are homosexual), and/or often excessively prudish when it comes to male nudity.

But come to think of it....

Actually, when I look at soccer uniforms and basketball outfits, and beach wear from the early 1980's, I notice it at once: women's clothing gets skimpier and men's gets longer. If it keeps on like this, the guys will all be wearing hijabs and the girls will be totally nude. So, yeah, it's not just Renderosity...

I'll just toss out a comment on the cost thing...

I'm spoiled and I admit it.  When I can get serious 3D rendering software for free (Daz) or less than 1/2 the cost of Lightwave (PPro) then I find myself falling into the "why should I pay $50 for that model?" mindset.  Worse, a LOT of what I end up using is worth easily twice what I paid for it (and yes, I would have paid that much for things I need for my Webcomic).

I'm not a modeler, I can't push polygons to sav emy life, so I have to rely on Talented Others(tm).  And right now I can get incredible models for dirt cheap, so I take advantage.  But every so often I see something I have to have, that's not in the sub-$30 range, and I go ahead and invest (while wincing).  Yet even 5 years ago I'd have had to pay a modeler $$$$$ for something like a Stonemason set or a PowerAge armor!

I'm spoiled rotten.  I suspect a lot of people are, it's an embarassment of riches in a buyers market.

Maybe if Poser/DS/etc. would gain more acceptance as a "legit artists tool" (and no, I'm not trying to start a flame war etc.) we'd see more semi-pro/pro iusers willing to pay for higher-end models, because they in turn will make a return on investment selling their artwork.

I'm not making a penny with what I'm doing.  I don't expect to make a penny from it, ever.  So I'm kind of lokced into the "hobbyoist level" of willingness to suffer financial pain with a Poser content purchase.

Ok, rant over.

Quote -  

Glad I'm not a merchant so I can waste my time for whatever I want. :-)

 

But if I were, I'd do exactly what BlackHearted suggested.

Actually, I wouldn't even waste my time with full body custom sculpts, but rather do dial spins with a merchant resource texture.

You know, the ones with the little made up background storys and cutesy names that are a "must-have new and exiting addition to your runtime".

The average user can't tell anyway if you spent 12 hours sculpting in ZBrush or 12 minutes spinning some body morph dials.

I'm pretty sure next to "hair coloration add-ons", those have the best "time spent vs money earned" ratio.

;-)

 

 

This is interesting. I have your EXTRAordinary men in my shopping cart as I type. I noticed the difference, although I must say, they all seem to have rather large noses. There's a family joke about our noses.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Again, still doesn't explain why no one's made a free male (that I know of) or why there is comparatively so little free content for males, yet I have downloaded three free females in the last year, four if you count V4WM, and free content for females is essentially infinite.

I guess makers of freebie male content don't get enough adoration, praise, and promises to the blood of firstborn sons?

 

I don't think it's so much about adoration as it is : Use my stuff. 

Like the, "if you make it, they will come" thing just does not seem to hold true and the content creators see that. As mentioned in one form or another before, we are in the grip of a nearly concrete cycle: Creators won't create things people don't seem to want but people can't want things if creators don't create them. 

I rarely post renders. Heck, I've been a member at RDNA for 7 years, I think, and I posted in their galleries for the first time last month. How are you going to know if I use your stuff?

ETA: I mean to say, Yes, vendors are able to create demand. And often do, probably without realizing it.

Based on the forums, I'd say DeviantArt is overwhelming youthful. Kids, in my experience (and again based on the forums there), are often horny, frequently scared of been thought of as homosexual (even when they are homosexual), and/or often excessively prudish when it comes to male nudity.

But come to think of it....

Actually, when I look at soccer uniforms and basketball outfits, and beach wear from the early 1980's, I notice it at once: women's clothing gets skimpier and men's gets longer. If it keeps on like this, the guys will all be wearing hijabs and the girls will be totally nude. So, yeah, it's not just Renderosity...

Well, that is a valid argument but here at Renderostiy, at least, we have vendor tags for the gallery and alongside just people mentioning your name, those work with the search engine so if you wanted to know if someone used your product here, you just look yourself up in the gallery.   There's also notices about the number of downloads for your stuff and we used to get messaged about who bought what you sold here (don't know if that still happens), so that you could provide support or include them in a email about an update.   

Regardless though, is there room for more males? Yes. Should the current males get more support in the form of morphs and clothing? Yes. Do I see that happening? I know that there are more males on the way - I even have to start collecting my refs to make one - but I don't anticipate lots of support even for existing males anytime soon. Forthcoming males? Who knows? Maybe the next male to release will be the one everybody jumps on board for or maybe he won't . I just hope that when the next figure releases, people rally to him. If they don't he'll just fall to the wayside like every male before him, taking a back seat to the latest female release.

Well, females are more rounder, softer, easy on the eye.

It seems that males are build, because they "have to".

Same for content.
Female clothes are more in "style", and have lots of different styles.

Men clothes are more "practical".

A man, can do years with a shirt, some jeans and some boots.

So?, Even IRL, where is the money?
Who spends money on clothing?
The man or the woman?

Same here, nothing new under the sun.

This is why I'm a bit cautious about showing too much enthusiasm for new figures, characters, clothing types etc. I'm all for encouraging vendors to bring out new stuff, but I don't want to raise anyone's expectations of a sale when I know it's something I'm never going to buy.

Just to use GNDA2 as a recent example... I post a link to every new item that comes out for her here in her content thread and I'm enthusistic about wips posted in her clothing thread - but at the same time I don't want to give the impression I'm going to buy everything that comes out for her. I'm not, I'd never use it.

Same goes for a couple of male new figures there have been threads about recently. If it's a figure I'd definitely buy then I'm happy to say so and I'll buy it, but if I think it's a great figure but I'm not going to buy it then it's tricky to make any comment without raising expectations of a sale.

Quote - Well, females are more rounder, softer, easy on the eye.

It seems that males are build, because they "have to".

Same for content.
Female clothes are more in "style", and have lots of different styles.

Men clothes are more "practical".

A man, can do years with a shirt, some jeans and some boots.

So?, Even IRL, where is the money?
Who spends money on clothing?
The man or the woman?

Same here, nothing new under the sun.

LOL. My husband's suits cost $800. Mine cost $80-140, and I got the last one on sale for less than $30.  His shirts are $60; mine are $25.

I do spend more money on clothing -- HIS! He only shops for shoes, and that's only because he knows he has to try them on first. Well, the suits require an alteration. It's a five minute process to fit them.

I think this is going to vary wildly for each couple. But my friends all say the same thing: they shop with their wives for a trip and spend $200 each. The wife has 2 suitcases full of clothes, and they have a pair of pants, 2 shirts, and a pack of underwear.

I don't find soft, round things more pleasant to look at. I'm kind of with many of the ancient Greek sculptors on that. Young, fit men are far better. They have can have very well defined musculature without looking hideous.

I didn't mean to stir up old controversies, months ago I'd read of new males being developed and yet all that seems to come out are new females.  I was just curious about any pending developments.  I'm still waiting for Sixus' HumanZ line--the male figure preview was very much something I'd like to have.

Guess I can complain only so far because what am I doing? I'm creating a Character/Texture pack for the store that's a V4. Why? Because it's likely to sell, even if I'm aiming the whole package at Poser Pro 2012 users. A problem tho, that I've meant to start a thread on, for both V4 and M4 (and I'd say for other character figures as well) is disappearing Merchant Resource Base textures to work with. I think that Rendo should change their policy in regards to Merchant Resource Base Textures. I currently own 3 Resource packages for V4 that are no longer available in the Rendo store. I only have 2 Resource packs for M4 and there are no psd layers of male body hair or pubic hair in the store as a Resource package. I'd save up and buy things like that. Even though a male Character package would not sell nearly as well as a V4 package, I do intend to make one. To me this is a big issue with ANY of the new figures coming out (Michelle, Tyler, whoever), those of us who would make Character/Texture packages need Texture bases to work with (because frankly some of us don't have the money to sink into reference photo packs). Would I do a set for Michelle if I own her? Maybe. If I had a base texture to work with. The new, coming Tyler? Yeah, if there was a base to use!!!!!!

Quote - those of us who would make Character/Texture packages need Texture bases to work with (because frankly some of us don't have the money to sink into reference photo packs).

a one month membership at 3D.SK costs $25 (used to be $9.99).  in that one month you can download enough reference photos to last you a lifetime of texturing. 

I have considered it. Alas, my skill at actually making a base texture isn't that good. Modifying the heck out of one, yeah. I believe that I could create a head and body texture because I have successfully merged a face from one map to another map and the same with a body. I am not so sure about hands and feet. Hey, at least I submitted my email to 3D.SK's mailing list.

Quote - This guy is exceptionally talented:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=20326

He renders mostly male figures with a high degree of artistic excellence, yet I don't ever see his work in the Art Charts.  If you want to find quality renders, if you're looking for small-bosomed women (I render those, too!) or men, people ARE posting them here.  You just need to wade through a lot of "A Mostly Naked V4 Against a Fractal Background" renders.

 

Yes, he is so talented, I love his work.

For male pin ups I really adore Vashek.  He is an exceptional artist.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=51522

Delaney

Vaschek is great, his images are very professionally done and are fit to adorn the covers of those popular romance novels. 

There is no doubt that there is a lot of life and versatility in the existing selections of male figures--I just get bored with my content and want new stuff all the time.  Oh, how I wish that Anton had continued to develop Apollo, he was a figure I really liked that I felt hadn't reached his full potential.

Quote - There is no doubt that there is a lot of life and versatility in the existing selections of male figures--I just get bored with my content and want new stuff all the time.  Oh, how I wish that Anton had continued to develop Apollo, he was a figure I really liked that I felt hadn't reached his full potential.

Rather than wait for new stuff, you'd probably do better learning how to create your own stuff for your existing characters. This includes making clothes and possibly sculpting your own morphs and modify existing clothing to fit. Looking at some of these responses, unless a creator has a love for creating male items and not overly motivated by paying bills, there's always going to be a lack of content for the male figures. Considering the track record of the women that have been released of late where content has been slow to get to market, I'm imagining the situation for the guys to be even more dire.

I can customize things to a certain extent, but I'm more about the artwork and don't want to be a content creator.  Not all of us are talented enough to make 3D models.  I can, and have, made some props with primativies if I'm in a bind.  I'm sure I'm not alone in this, to me the arduous process of human figure creation is the difference between buying a car from a dealership or building one in my garage.  Human figure creation can take months (or years), I'm not going there.

I tried creating a male figure using MakeHuman, an app which is more a of a human figure generator than a modelling app per se, and which is a plug-in for Blender.   I ran into problems importing the mesh into Poser and rigging it.  Based on my experience, I tend to agree with Tomsde's analogy of the difference between buying a car from a second hand dealer versus building one yourself.

I wasn't talking about new figure creation. But in the absence of a steady amount of male content, learning how to customize male heads, bodies and other content for our own use is a skill you should learn. You may not want or be able to build a new car or the dealership closes down, but you should know how to change the oil, or replace the belts if the service is not readily available.

there's some kewl m4 content in SAV's free stuff.  Volg's jacket, dynamic boxers

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/index.php?username=StudioArtVartanian

Oh I can customize well enough--but still you can often tell which figure a spin off hailed from.  Truth be told I am very concerned about the future of Poser, as if there isn't quality new content for it in the future it's not likely to survive in the long run.  I know Smith Micro is working on a new premium male figure--but we've not even gotten a real glimpse of it yet.

I wish everyone would stop using the term 'slut' to describe brief/sexy clothing with the resulting implication - intentional or not - that a woman's character is defined by the clothes she wears - even if she's only a virtual woman. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, merely a longstanding peeve that I have now gotten off my chest.

I don't know how closely Poser images track the ratio of male/female imagery in art as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised if female depictions are more prevalent in most art forms. That may be partly due to esthetics, maybe the female figure creates more interesting possibilities of light and shadow, whatever. Females may have more symbolic appeal, whether it be fertility, purity, motherhood and apple pie etc. Females are probably going to dominate in erotic imagery because the odds favor most male artists being (presumably) heterosexual, and women are (supposedly) more into literary rather than graphic erotica.

I think that Vilters has a point in that women's clothing offers greater variety in color and style. That may not be as true for modern 'everyday' wear, but you have to go back quite a ways to when mean were flamboyant peacocks, and even those wher pretty much the upper classes. For pinups etc. you can have an endless variety of mini-skirts, bustiers, teddies, panties etc. What are you going to put a man in besides a pair of briefs or a chest revealing Fabio shirt? I can sympathize with the desire for more male figures/content though I virtually never use them myself. Seriously (not really), now that women can be presidents, soldiers, construction workers - and of course dragon slayers - they should be sufficient for any image needs :-) Mark my words gentlemen, once they learn how to self-fertilize, they'll smother us all in our sleep - if the cats don't learn how to use can openers and train dogs to provide warm laps first - in which case, all of humankind will be doomed.

Quote - I wish everyone would stop using the term 'slut' to describe brief/sexy clothing with the resulting implication - intentional or not - that a woman's character is defined by the clothes she wears - even if she's only a virtual woman. This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, merely a longstanding peeve that I have now gotten off my chest.

Although I doubt I use the term, I think this term isn't aimed at the woman, but those that feel that this is the only way a woman should look.... and that's a bigger issue. A realistic woman's business suit probably wouldn't sell, but one that's low cut, showing breast and has a miniskirt rather than a normal length one (that would get you sent home for the day) would sell like hotcakes.

Quote -
I think that Vilters has a point in that women's clothing offers greater variety in color and style. That may not be as true for modern 'everyday' wear, but you have to go back quite a ways to when mean were flamboyant peacocks, and even those wher pretty much the upper classes. For pinups etc. you can have an endless variety of mini-skirts, bustiers, teddies, panties etc. What are you going to put a man in besides a pair of briefs or a chest revealing Fabio shirt?

I appreciate your rant.

But I don't think you're being very imaginative when it comes to pinups. I guess it depends who the audience is.  I'd expect women looking at men's pinups would find all the usual subjects, in various degrees of disrobe, to be quite enticing: firemen, police officers, doctors, atheletes in different sports uniforms, professors, astronauts, scientists, truck drivers, construction workers, delivery boys, chefs...

Think fireman calendar....

If someone were to make male pinup outfits that were targeting female tastes, as opposed to those of gay men, I think they'd be quite popular. To wit: StudioArtVartanian's Hot Men.

Anyway, I think there's a huge, huge variety of clothing style available for men. But the one single type of clothing for which there is the greatest variety of styles available in the marketplace is that of soldiers...

Hmm... this suggests that, for the most part, it really is men rendering men. And women and men rendering women.

Yeah, there aren't enough women interested in rendering men. The market is too small. But I won't agree that it's because male clothing is less varied.

I think it's more because women like to see themselves as the hero of their own narratives (and by extension, images), even if that narrative is often an erotic fantasy that appeals to male tastes.

Good point Moriador. I was thinking more of lingeree type pinups. Thinking of the classic pinups of the 50s, they featured a lot of situations, cowgirl, sailor girl, librarian etc. In that style, there are definitely many possibilities for male equivalents like the ones you mention. I admit to being pretty ignorant regarding female fantasies, though I suppose men in uniform is always popular.

I was thinking the other day about classic male fantasy figures, stewardess (alas, 'flight attendant' just doesn't have the same appeal), cheerleader, nurse, French maid... Today, likely as not, she is packing big guns (no pun intended) or a sword - interesting changes. 

It seems I'm not the typical female. I like the nude human form whether it's male or female. I was raised in a household where an interest in archaeology was encouraged (mmmm, Greek statues!). So I do female and male nudes. I also like fetishwear and there is nowhere enough of that type for the males. And I like pretty boys. However, I don't have whatever gene it is that is for 3D modeling. A friend taught me a few years ago how to model pots and bottles in Hex, and I've quite forgotten how to do that. So modeling clothing myself is out of my league. I can texture the models. I also know just enough about of UVMapper to be dangerous. I have to rely on those people who can model clothing and hope they'll find it worthwhile to model a few things for the males. And I'm hoping that the new Tyler figure will be a good one and will get some support, at least support from Crossdresser.

Quote - Good point Moriador. I was thinking more of lingeree type pinups. Thinking of the classic pinups of the 50s, they featured a lot of situations, cowgirl, sailor girl, librarian etc. In that style, there are definitely many possibilities for male equivalents like the ones you mention. I admit to being pretty ignorant regarding female fantasies, though I suppose men in uniform is always popular.

I was thinking the other day about classic male fantasy figures, stewardess (alas, 'flight attendant' just doesn't have the same appeal), cheerleader, nurse, French maid... Today, likely as not, she is packing big guns (no pun intended) or a sword - interesting changes. 

If I recall anything from the Weiner sexts scandal, it was the number of discussions surrounding why it is that women generally tend not to respond positively to close up images of men's genitals. I think -- though this is obviously not going to be true of a considerable number -- women prefer not to see the same sort of graphic detail as men. So, yeah, the 1950's level of exposure, if not the artistic style, seems like it might appeal.

I think the girls with guns and swords and weapons etc might be a result of that "illustrating our own narrative" thing.  But maybe men are liking the kickass type too. It is interesting to see and ponder wider social changes and possible correlations...

My renders go the whole gamut from fetish, to smutty, to graphically pornographic, to traditional fantasy illustration, to attempts at realism, to dinosaurs. The only things I don't do (I mean, don't render - I don't do them either, but that's into the realm of WTMI) are torture, excessively kinky stuff like copraphagia, and fairies/unicorns. Of the last three, I'm not sure which is most offensive.

ETA: I don't model either.  I'm sure I'd be terrible at it. I have no basis for this belief other than that I've never tried, and I have less patience than I should have for complicated new software interfaces. I should give it a go anyway.

I work with male figures here a lot (PG ratings - fully clothed thank you)... a total catalog of 21 male characters used constantly.  And for the last year, they've all been based off of Genesis -- bought Gen4 converter the 2nd or 3rd day it was available and haven't looked back.  Before that it was mostly Michael4, and rarely James.  James was ONLY used in far off shots because he looks like crud and has NOTHING that fits him.  M4 is a bit better, but not by much.  I toyed with Apollo, but we all know where that went.

Genesis has changed the game.  Suddenly the male figures are supported.  And the support for males is climbing, not declining.  A new business suit is due out soon from SickleYield/Marieah and it's ultra NICE.  It works for both genders.  If one has a tee-shirt for Vx and it is suitably gender neutral (collar/hem wise) then autofit it to a male Genesis and there you go.  Need clothes for K4?  Not a problem any more... even for K4 males.  I've taken tee-shirts made for K4 and used them on Michael5, and they look GREAT!  Add in the use of the Fabricator, and people are happy.   I rarely hear complaints about clothing the male characters around here any more... and they no longer have to wear the same outfit scene after scene after scene.

The fact is that it is too much work for the return for the male figures with Gen4 or newPoser-WM.  If a vendor makes an outfit for M5, then it can instantly be used on almost any character (including toons) -- David, Hiro, Vicky, Aiko, Steph, Hitomi, Jasmin.  This increases the sales potential way beyond just one piddly male character, for little or no extra work.

Kendall

I know I'm not typical. I guess I am more 'masculine' in my taste of imagery. I hate soft core, and I hate the strategically placed towel or bedsheet across the lap. I like to see the male 'toast' and I like to see it in action. I know this is way not typical and so I don't post such to any gallery. But I did object strenously when at first it appeared that M4 was not going to have 'toast' at all included with the figure. If some anatomy is missing then there is something wrong. I've been like that since I was a child. Back then the HollyHobby doll was the big thing. It actually frightened me because she had no nose or mouth. Some well meaning friend of my mother's gave me one as a birthday present one time and my mother had to draw in a mouth and nose dots because I wouldn't go near the thing. So missing anatomy bothers me and makes me want to close my pocketbook. It also bugs me that so many of the V4 texture maps don't have pubic hair.

But back to the topic. I would love to see a new, good looking male Poser figure as an alternative to M4 (no M5 on this machine because at least on my laptop Poser and DS4 did not play well together at all). So I have hopes for this new Tyler figure.

ksears, Genesis isn't really a final solution for Poser. It's a lot of work to get clothes to fit (if they don't explode), and certain parts of the anatomy (the calf, for instance) appear too low poly for serious anatomical renders. Nice for the occasional render, particularly if you need monsters and half humans/anthros. But I would not organize my runtime around it.

Using DS isn't a solution, either, as its render engine cannot perform up to standards. Others have other reasons for not using it. We've heard them all before. As the thread is in the Poser forum, I think we can agree that those of us posting in this thread who want male content, want it for Poser.

Latexluv -- well, I agree: the "strategically placed towel" is mightily annoying. But in my case is the fact that it's so contrived that bugs me.

It did take me a very long time before I could bear to work on posing the nude Michael without his gens. It just looked so very wrong! So I'd always load them and then make them invisible when it came time to clothe him.  I'm used to it now.

I'm looking forward to seeing Tyler... especially, now, given the news of Blackhearted's involvement... on top of everything else.

I'd agree, "toast" is important, even if just for draping over.

Ideally an optional left or right "hang" bulge morph as well, could be useful... especially in terms of that being copied into conforming clothing.

Is a "symbolically draped bedsheet" any better than a "strategically placed towel"?

Or should it just all hang out?

Quote - Is a "symbolically draped bedsheet" any better than a "strategically placed towel"?

Or should it just all hang out?

I'm with Latexluv... the bedsheet is a contrivance.

Either the dude's got clothes on, or he doesn't. Why pretend he's partially clothed when he isn't?

However, partial clothing, even when it's contrived (how many firemen really wander around the firehouse in boots and boxer briefs?), is still quite sexy for lots of people. Calvin Klein seems to have figured this out. But it's probably a taste that not everyone shares.

He he... yeah...I guess I'm all about these contrivances, a lot of the time.

I do like a "sense of mystery" though.

I'm maybe more a symbolist than a realist too... and perhaps going for comedic over erotic effect, more often, at that.

Although, I think something can be both funny and sensual... what do you think?

Also, something being sinister and a bit scary, but darkly humerous, simultaneously, is in that same boat, for me...

...or am I just a bit weird in this respect? :blushing:

Trouble with new male figures is that generally the clothes I need for them are fairly specific and without those clothes it's not worth me investing in a new figure. Most of my renders are historical, historical fantasy and sci-fi. Some of that I can cover for any figure with dynamic clothing, but the big problem for male figures is armour. There aren't many good historical armour sets out there anyway and what there is is for M3 and M4. It's not worth working on converting these sets to a different figure as no one's going to see much of the figure itself anyway. Same goes for sci-fi renders as most of them use heavy combat suits.

Most of the clothing for new male figures tends to be either everyday stuff or completely fantasy armours which I'm never going to use.

I'd like to get new male figures but it's probably not worth it just to do a couple of nude renders so I can be impressed by how great the figure looks and then never use it again :(

I am a definite "convert" to the power of Wardrobe Wizard.

With that in my arsenal, I really don't feel that conforming clothes are a limitation... relative to any new male figures (not at least, once PhilC gets on the case with them).

The restriction for me would be the choice of decent character (face / body) morphs and skin textures.

If that choice is limited, I find (at least right now, where I'm at early days relative to making the above aspects myself) that it really limits what I can do with a figure... or would want to do with it.

Conversions for armour don't work unfortunately and are pretty well unnecessary anyway if you can't see the figure underneath. I do occasionally manually fit armour between M3 and M4 - and then wonder why I bothered! :)

I've got nowhere with WW yet. I use XD all the time but with no XD support (eg. for GNDA2) and my poor results with WW any new figures that don't get XD support are going to be stuck with my dynamic draperies and manual conversions.

If there was a male version of Miki4 on the way I'd be seriously tempted as I don't have any figure that does a Japanese or Korean male well.

Quote - If there was a male version of Miki4 on the way I'd be seriously tempted as I don't have any figure that does a Japanese or Korean male well.

What do you reckon to Koji on that front? (weight mapped version is coming along in due course apparently)

Quote - Conversions for armour don't work unfortunately and are pretty well unnecessary anyway if you can't see the figure underneath. I do occasionally manually fit armour between M3 and M4 - and then wonder why I bothered! :)

Yeah I recently did some experimentation with converting the M3 Space Suit to fit a "fuller figured" V4 custom morph I have.

The spacesuit just didn't look right with boobs.

However, WW did a pretty fantastic job of putting those in there... considering its a fully automatic solution! :lol:

I guess armour is an even trickier case in point... and yeah, maybe PhilC himself would have some tips and tricks to pass on there and indeed its probably worth asking him(?)... but I would imagine myself, that the assembly of hard shells, that armour is constituted from, probably needs each part rescaled separately and then the whole thing reconstituted / re-rigged... in some way?

Quote - ksears, Genesis isn't really a final solution for Poser. It's a lot of work to get clothes to fit (if they don't explode), and certain parts of the anatomy (the calf, for instance) appear too low poly for serious anatomical renders. Nice for the occasional render, particularly if you need monsters and half humans/anthros. But I would not organize my runtime around it.

Using DS isn't a solution, either, as its render engine cannot perform up to standards. Others have other reasons for not using it. We've heard them all before. As the thread is in the Poser forum, I think we can agree that those of us posting in this thread who want male content, want it for Poser.

It's not a DS vs Poser issue.  It's an "until SM has a Genesis" for Poser, males aren't going to get support issue.  Until Genesis, males were suffering the same fate in DAZland.  And while things aren't equal, they are getting much better over there. 

Over here it is still WAY too much work for the vendor, and it's getting worse not better.   Before too much longer the Poserverse is going to see even more splits as vendors decide which, if any, newPoser-WM characters they are going to provide morphs for -- even on the female side.  Each of the different morphs and body shapes is a lot of work, and in many cases the morphs for the different figures won't work together.  Then you have to take the different WM into account, which compounds the issue.

Kendall

 It's not a DS vs Poser issue.  It's an "until SM has a Genesis" for Poser, males aren't going to get support issue.  Until Genesis, males were suffering the same fate in DAZland.  And while things aren't equal, they are getting much better over there.

Kendall

Well, yes. I see your point. Clothing that can be worn by both sexes or easily converted will sell better, and vendors are more likely to make it.

Quote - ...or am I just a bit weird in this respect? :blushing:

 

Everyone is a bit weird in some respects. Life'd be very boring were it not the case. Sinister and sexy : Dracula, and every vampire ever after.  Humorous and sexy: how else could Woody Allen hope to get laid?  Humorous and sinister: The Coen Bros. It all works. :)

Quote - > Quote - If there was a male version of Miki4 on the way I'd be seriously tempted as I don't have any figure that does a Japanese or Korean male well.

What do you reckon to Koji on that front? (weight mapped version is coming along in due course apparently)

I don't have Koji. The renders I've seen haven't really appealed to me much. Although I haven't really seen that many renders.

Quote - > Quote - Conversions for armour don't work unfortunately and are pretty well unnecessary anyway if you can't see the figure underneath. I do occasionally manually fit armour between M3 and M4 - and then wonder why I bothered! :)

Yeah I recently did some experimentation with converting the M3 Space Suit to fit a "fuller figured" V4 custom morph I have.

The spacesuit just didn't look right with boobs.

However, WW did a pretty fantastic job of putting those in there... considering its a fully automatic solution! :lol:

I guess armour is an even trickier case in point... and yeah, maybe PhilC himself would have some tips and tricks to pass on there and indeed its probably worth asking him(?)... but I would imagine myself, that the assembly of hard shells, that armour is constituted from, probably needs each part rescaled separately and then the whole thing reconstituted / re-rigged... in some way?

Yeah, the problem with armour (with XD anyway, haven't tried with WW) is that the conversion process obviously wants to conform it to the figure. Armour (even though it is conforming in the Poser sense) isn't supposed to conform to a body like the conversion tries to do. Converting it manually works, but it takes some time and like I said, it's not really worth it if you're not going to see the figure inside. How well the figure inside bends etc. isn't really an issue inside a big metal or ceramic (?sci-fi) suit.

Quote - I don't have Koji. The renders I've seen haven't really appealed to me much. Although I haven't really seen that many renders.

Nope me neither... not seen many renders at all... not of non-Weight-mapped Koji.

However the ones of WM-Koji that Diogenes posted previously of the wip looked pretty good to me...

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2847190&page=1

I'd say I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the revised Koji released... along with the new Tyler figure.

"But maybe men are liking the kickass type too."

I suspect that the majority of NVITWAS fans are male - same for Lara Croft, etc. Maybe it's like the notion of the powerful executive who enjoys being disciplined by a dominatrix. I think many men like powerful women, though perhaps more in fantasy than in reality. Goddess worship was pretty popular until the new wave of religions shunted women to a secondary (at best) role and cast them as the root of temptation, witchcraft etc.

"Back then the HollyHobby doll was the big thing. It actually frightened me because she had no nose or mouth."

OK, no Hello Kitty for you :-)

"It also bugs me that so many of the V4 texture maps don't have pubic hair."

It's easier to add it with a prop or trans map than it is to do a virtual Brazilian in an image editor. Also, if the texture is based on model photos, lineoleum seems to be more popular than carpet these days.

Strategically placed sheets? Better than a fireman's helmet or a catcher's mitt. I remember bygone adult films where the women were completely nude and the men kept their boxers on throughout. Now that was ridiculous. I don't watch many movies other than sci-fi and animation so I don't know how much the taboo on male nudity has eased up. Even if it has, I'm pretty sure Hollywood isn't going to show aroused males, so 'love' scenes are going to be without a certain sense of authenticity in any case.

Action Man, when I was a kid, always came with a good pair of what looked like armoured, blue plastic Y-fronts, welded onto his hips.

This was fine... but I remember being a bit disturbed by some earlier generation Action Men I then inherited from an older cousin. They were without the armoured pants and just had skin tone blanks where their "toast" should have been.

did WM Michael 4 bite the dust?

still hoping.

Quote - did WM Michael 4 bite the dust?

still hoping.

I'm with you on this!

People have been asking this all over there is never any responce. Would be nice if he wasn't forgotten butit's starting to look like he might have been.

V4's original bending was optimized by magnets. M4 used JCMs. It's possible that changing the falloff with weight maps will screw up JCMs. V4 didn't have this issue as far as I know.

I have no inside knowledge about the project. This is just my theory.

I'm putting the finishing touches to my free new poser male figure, I am making some clothes for him too.

It has traditional rigging and arounf 36000 polys

You can see my latest render in my gallery, here at rendo.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2377449