You are right WandW.

I guess I'm going to start deleting the messages. That lets the discussion continue without the trolling.

Good call.

Quote - > Quote - I really think the thread has run its course. The next nasty comment from either side locks it.

 

The problem is that it is a tactic that some use to end discussions...

Yep, it is sad that this is used by the trolls time after time when threads don't go there way.

Edit to add: I think that is a better idea, basicwiz.

shoo. The next post didnt lock the thread lol...Hooray

vintorix...

I want people to get off the Daz4 vs Poser bandwagon and discuss what the OP asked. The superiority of one program or the other really does not enter into the net effect that Genesis is having on the marketplaces.

If you have evidence or insight into what is going on, please present it. If you cannot contribute to that discussion, I ask that you leave it alone.

I'm getting 'way too many complaints in my mailbox about this to let it go on much longer. If you wish to continue this discussion, let's take it to sitemail.

"I'm getting 'way too many complaints in my mailbox about this to let it go on much longer."

Very well. Let the Daz bashing continue then. I will not interfere.

Hopefully this isn't too far afield; I made a venture to the Forum, and discovered that DAZ is apparently no longer including readme files in their new content products; they now have to be viewed online... 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/4957/

I'm..speechless...

Getting back on topic.

Even if the next version of the exporter and the next Poser sr will fix the problem with importing genesis in Poser, I doubt it will have much impact on the sales of genesis items. The procedure to get all the supporting items (poses, material files, props, etc) into Poser is just too much work. They are all in studio format and you can either apply them each time in DS4 when you need to add or change something or go through the very tedious job of exporting file by file and producing thumbnails for them.

So DAZ has to think of something else to get some of their Poser customers back. Hints are being dropped that something is in the works, but I have read anything concrete yet

Quote - > Quote - "Dunning-Kruger effect"

I lernt something today. Thanks!

He he... I learned something too.

I'd falsely assumed that everyone else knew about the Dunning-Kruger effect already.

Which is, in itself, a perfect example of it.

Quote - Hopefully this isn't too far afield; I made a venture to the Forum, and discovered that DAZ is apparently no longer including readme files in their new content products; they now have to be viewed online... 

http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewthread/4957/

I'm..speechless...

Yes, you need to be online to read the readme file (which is the only place which mentions where the files are installed). Providing a text file is the least which they should be doing

Yes, Daz has made some pretty strange decisions lately, but to not include a simple "Read Me" file with a product has got to be the worse one yet.  Isn't this the file that tells you what is included in the product (geometry, library/props etc.), also the part that tells you that you cannot distribute the item or the part about commercial use vs non-commercial use?

I would think that someone installing the item that is new to both Poser or DS would want to read where the product is being installed, like in figures, or props, or in hair instead of figures.  Things like that.  What happens in a few years when a friend says "Oh, really nice outfit on her, where did you get it?".  The person looks in their runtime and does not find a read me, says "I haven't the slightest idea where it came from, here is a copy".  I keep my purchased content backup seperate from my freebie content backup, but I am sure not everyone does that.

They need to seriously re-think that decision.

Quote - "I'm getting 'way too many complaints in my mailbox about this to let it go on much longer."

Very well. Let the Daz bashing continue then. I will not interfere.

Daz-bashing is not the same thing as questioning the wisdom of some of their recent decisions. The point is that a lot of their customers feel, rightly or wrongly, that they can't do business with them any more, or at least not as much as they used to.

Even if all the criticisms levelled at DAZ here and earlier threads were without foundation, the fact that the perception exists at all means that something's gone wrong.

Quote - Which is fine if it helps you sleep at night....just don't kid yourself that the companies lose sleep over it.

I know rebok isn't losing sleep over me not buying shoes from them LOL

Which is why company boycotts never work. Just look at how Fruit of the Loom didn't reopen its plant in Honduras--which it closed after it unionized--due to US and British colleges severing contracts they had with the company due to student pressure.

Oh, wait, sorry, they did in fact re-open the plant, hire all the workers back, compensate them, and gave them union rights as a result of the boycott. Silly me for getting that backward.

Any company that thinks it can survive without customers or continually recruit new customers leaving a wake of unhappy ones in its trail is going to have a very hard time to succeed. :(

Some interesting facts:

 - 68% of customer defection takes place because customers feel poorly treated. Source: TARP

 - It can cost five times more to buy new customers than retain existing ones. Source: TARP

• It takes 12 positive service incidents to make up for 1 negative incident. Source: Lee Resource Inc

• The average "wronged customer" will tell 8-l6 people about it. Over 20% will tell more than 20. Source: Lee Resource Inc (I wonder how much this increases with the internet)

• 91% of unhappy customers will not willingly do business with you again. Source: Lee Resource Inc

• 70% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint in their favour. Source: Lee Resource Inc

• 95% of complaining customers will do business with you again if you resolve the complaint instantly. Source: Lee Resource Inc

• Reducing customer defections can boost profits by 25-85%. In 73% of cases, the organization made no attempt to persuade dissatisfied customers to stay; even though 35% said that a simple apology would have prevented them from moving to the competition. Source: NOP

• Happy customers who have their problems resolved will tell 4-6 people about their positive experience. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

• It costs five to six times as much to get a new (first time) customer as it does to keep a current one. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

• Customer loyalty can be worth up to 10 times as much as a single purchase. Source: the White House Office of Consumer Affairs, Washington, DC.

• A typical business hears from only about 4% of its dissatisfied customers. 96% just go away and 91% will never come back. Source: “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner

Threads like this do more harm to Poser than they do to DAZ, because they make the Poser community looks like a bunch of spoiled brats who are jealous of other peoples toys.

You don't see these type of threads in the DAZ forums.

Quote - Threads like this do more harm to Poser than they do to DAZ, because they make the Poser community looks like a bunch of spoiled brats who are jealous of other peoples toys.

You don't see these type of threads in the DAZ forums.

You must be blind. Only difference is that they are deleted as soon as they are noticed

Quote - You don't see these type of threads in the DAZ forums.

Not quite true; here the shoe is on the other hand...

http://forumarchive.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=189930

"You must be blind. Only difference is that they are deleted as soon as they are noticed"

No, you do not see threads in the DAZ forums attacking Smith Micro's business practices and software, nor do you see threads filled with speculation about how many customers Smith Micro/Renderosity/any Poser-focused website must be losing.

What was even the point of this thread? To speculate how Genesis (a figure very few of you here can or wish to use) might be hurting DAZ (a company that many here have turned away from because you say they're not supporting Poser well enough now)? If anything, this should have been in the DAZ Studio forum.

Quote - "You must be blind. Only difference is that they are deleted as soon as they are noticed"

 

No, you do not see threads in the DAZ forums attacking Smith Micro's business practices and software, nor do you see threads filled with speculation about how many customers Smith Micro/Renderosity/any Poser-focused website must be losing.

Oh yes, plenty of threads attacking SM's business practices and poser. Just ask the moderators. They delete both sides - those attacking DAZ and those attacking SM or Poser

Quote - What was even the point of this thread? To speculate how Genesis (a figure very few of you here can or wish to use) might be hurting DAZ (a company that many here have turned away from because you say they're not supporting Poser well enough now)? If anything, this should have been in the DAZ Studio forum.

Perhaps you should read the thread; I use Genesis in Poser and would like to be able to use it more.  I, and some of the others others who have posted here are still members of the Platinum Club, but are disappointed with DAZ' direction and avoidable misteps as of late...

Well said there Ian, it's that minority of professional whiners that's ruining it for everyone else, not what a stores forum policy is. All it achieves is to putting off the 90% of good people who want to enjoy our fine hobby. Even freebies ain't immune from complaints either. Which sometimes makes me think if someone is gonna attack you when you give them a gift, then why bother giving stuff away. Sometimes the only reason I keep doing it is because I think the decent folks shouldn't be punished for the actions of a few idiots.

This has gone on long enough - locking thread.