Also, when I parented the left shoe, the toe of the shoe bent up slightly. The right shoe did not. In fact, when I parented the right shoe, it cocked all the way back to the heel, pointing down. I had to copy the rotations and coordinates from the left shoe to it. Methinks something is borked.

Laurie

I don't know if I can help you on this, but I believe I've had this or a similiar problem in the earlier versions of PP2012 before SR3 came out. I typically had this issue for what seemed like one of two reasons. First, I did not have the figure selected before I loaded the shoes, so the cross-talk was not correctly set-up. The shoes still conformed to the figure but in a strange way. Second, I moved the shoes from one figure to another in the same scene.

I am hopeful some smart person will figure this out and tell us what to do.

Maybe you could try regrouping them.. From what you are saying, I think they are both grouped to the same foot.. Just a guess :)

Maybe I should state it again. PARENTED. NOT conformed. I'm getting this with parented props. I should have no crosstalk. They are not grouped. They are two separate props - right shoe, left shoe. These are NOT conformed at all. I'm totally befuddled. I didn't even mistakenly go into the setup room. I've never had a problem parenting a prop in as long as I have Poser (since 4), I've never had them move when I parent them and I certainly never had them act like they were conformers. They aren't...lol. I'm stumped.

Laurie

I understood you the first time :)

I ran a little test, imported a pair of my own shoes in as obj, one at a time lol..

I had no trouble with them...They parented correctly..

The only changes were in moving the candle-(which had a light parented to it) and the camera-which had no intentional parenting.

Frustrating as they were long renders- and according to the preview-the neck rotation and expressions were the same for both images!

Quote - Maybe I should state it again. PARENTED. NOT conformed. I'm getting this with parented props. I should have no crosstalk. They are not grouped. They are two separate props - right shoe, left shoe. These are NOT conformed at all. I'm totally befuddled. I didn't even mistakenly go into the setup room. I've never had a problem parenting a prop in as long as I have Poser (since 4), I've never had them move when I parent them and I certainly never had them act like they were conformers. They aren't...lol. I'm stumped.

Laurie

Okay I understand. Bear with me for a minute, trying to help. If the shoes were "characters" (I know you said "prop" but all of my shoes are "characters" or figures) when you loaded them, I don't know if you can avoid cross-talk. I think its inherent in the design. I sometimes bring in hair as a character and parent it to the head rather than conforming. When I move the head I alway have to adjust it.

ANYWAY, I have a proposed fix. Have you tried loading the shoes and then exporting them one by one as an obj then importing them back in, then parenting them to the feet? That should eliminate any strange links to other body parts, etc. You may have to play with the materials some and you will loose your morphs, but I've had some luck with this as a work around.

Good luck

They are my shoes ;). I made them. They've never been in Poser as anything other than .obj :).

Laurie

Quote - This issue MAY be related- I move the camera- and various morphs on V4-WM change. I moved the candle and the neck rotated. What changes? Mostly head rotation and expressions- I move it again- and they may change back. Odd.

The only changes were in moving the candle-(which had a light parented to it) and the camera-which had no intentional parenting.

Frustrating as they were long renders- and according to the preview-the neck rotation and expressions were the same for both images!

That is truly freaky.

Laurie

Laurie

What happens when you parent them to their foot with inhibit bends ON?

I suppose you load one shoe. Pose it over tis foot, then parent it to that foot?
Then load the second shoe. Pose it over its foot, then parent it to that foot?

I would repeat those steps but parent wiht inhibit bends checked ON.

See what gives.

And when you look in the "Hierarchy Editor", the shoe that's distorting is parented to the left foot as you believe it should be? It's not parented to the left toe by mistake?

Fixed, I guess. I simply got rid of both shoes and reimported. But they move when I parent them. They shouldn't be moving, should they? I had to fiddle for an hour with the xyz trans and rotate to get them to fit. VERY odd. I don't like it. I think I'm gonna start over. Completely...lol.

Laurie

Was the rotation center of the shoe close to or far away from the rotation center of the foot the where supposed to go on?

If so, you should set the rotation center of the shoes as close to the rotation centers of the feet to start with.
That should help with the positioning of the shoes over the feet.
Happy Posering
PS, nice shoes.

Ps, from your last screengrab?
Did you hide the toes on one foot and not on the other?
Just a question.

Quote - Fixed, I guess. I simply got rid of both shoes and reimported. But they move when I parent them. They shouldn't be moving, should they? I had to fiddle for an hour with the xyz trans and rotate to get them to fit. VERY odd. I don't like it.

Laurie

i would think, they should only move if smartparent settings were involved?

They weren't smartpropped Laura. Both toes were hidden vilters. I was working in an old poser scene from Poser 8. Gonna start over fresh with a new scene, new vicky, reimport the objects. I just wanna make sure it's not from the old scene file. I don't know why it should be, but yanno Poser....lol. This is about the whackiest thing I've ever encountered in Poser personally ;).

Laurie

I hope you get it fixed. They were nice looking shoes....

Quote - Was the rotation center of the shoe close to or far away from the rotation center of the foot the where supposed to go on?

If so, you should set the rotation center of the shoes as close to the rotation centers of the feet to start with.
That should help with the positioning of the shoes over the feet.
Happy Posering
PS, nice shoes.

Yeah, I modeled over the posed feet. Can't get any closer than that...lol.

Laurie

Quote - I hope you get it fixed. They were nice looking shoes....

Thanks...hehe. They're not really. They were my very first shoes...lol. I figured I'd resurrect them and get em out in freestuff. I have about 4 pairs of shoes I need to do that with, including a pair of boots and a pair of mary jane flats (which I'll conform rather than parent) ;).

Laurie

Extremely strange!

Cross-talk should not be an issue here (unless morphs are involved). The "rotation center" (origin) would be an important factor with a smart parenting, but I don't think it should cause any rotation with normal user implemented  parenting, and in any case, the origin might affect rotation, but there is no way it should cause bending.

Now what things can cause a prop to bend? Well 'inherit bends', but that's turned off. A magnet or wave, but I shouldn't think one of those was involved in this case. A morph, but you did not mention the shoes containing any morphs.

Well we have eliminated the obvious. The only other thing I can think of, is if Poser is somehow mistakenly thinking that the left shoe is part of the right foot or toe. Of course that should not happen, but who knows what bugs SR3 may have introduced.

Do the shoes contain more than one geometry group, and what are the group names in the shoes?

Yeah, the shoes were separate props. One for the left and one for the right. They're just generic names (PumpRt, PumpLft), not named after Vicky's foot groups. I've never come across this so it was pretty weird. LOL. I modeled the shoes around the posed foot and I didn't translate either of the shoes or Vicky and posed Vicky's feet before I parented them. From what I'm familiar with, they should have just stayed where they were and just moved with the foot. But that's not what happened ;).

Geeze...must have been something it didn't like about the Poser 8 file. Set up new in Poser Pro 2012 and it did exactly what I expected it to. Worked perfectly. Thanks for the help folks ;). That'll teach me to use an old file...lol.

Laurie

Laurie!

You are quite the talented Cobbler!

Quote - They are my shoes ;). I made them. They've never been in Poser as anything other than .obj :).

Laurie

It is! Especially frustrating since the expression and direction of gaze were intergral to the point of the render. If I move ANYTHING- I may not get the expression I expect. In another case I toggled OFF visibility for a another V4-and the expression and head pose changed on the one in the render. Arrgh!

Quote - > Quote - This issue MAY be related- I move the camera- and various morphs on V4-WM change. I moved the candle and the neck rotated. What changes? Mostly head rotation and expressions- I move it again- and they may change back. Odd.

The only changes were in moving the candle-(which had a light parented to it) and the camera-which had no intentional parenting.

Frustrating as they were long renders- and according to the preview-the neck rotation and expressions were the same for both images!

That is truly freaky.

Laurie

I had a bug with parenting that I found, related to it inheriting the bends, and then not being able to undo that...(posted here)

In my particular case, the parenting was done thru Advanced Figure Manager, which inherited bends by default.

Not sure if its related, but I experienced similar symptoms, so I figured I would post for later reference

I don't even have Advanced Figure Manager ;)

Laurie

Quote - Fixed, I guess. I simply got rid of both shoes and reimported. But they move when I parent them. They shouldn't be moving, should they? I had to fiddle for an hour with the xyz trans and rotate to get them to fit. VERY odd. I don't like it. I think I'm gonna start over. Completely...lol.

Laurie

I think I've noticed something odd, a bit like this actually, the other night...

I positioned a flattened sphere prop (just a Poser primitive) so that it enclosed a pocket watch figure I have.

Then I parented it to the figure. The parented prop then jumped to an entirely new x,y,z position and x,y,z rotation.

Sound similar??

I couldn't be bothered to calculate the differentials... but if it happens again I will. I expect those might shed some light on what was happening, for me anyway, I guess.

EDIT: Oh yeah, it changed scale as well. My poser primitive prop was scaled to a certain percentage of it's default size and the pocket watch figure was also scaled down in size... but both different re-scaling values.

When I parented the sphere prop to the pocket watch figure, the sphere prop's scaling changed to something else too.

Well, it only happened to me when I'd opened an old Poser 8 file I'd been working on last year. I made all these shoes and never did anything with em...lol. So I just used the file I had started from Poser 8 in PoserPro 2012 and all this weird stuff started happening. However, when I started a new Poser Pro 2012 file and did everything over again, then it behaved exactly the way I expected. Maybe old files just cannot be fooled with without problems when opened in the newer versions, just rendered. I dunno. Was freaky...lol.

Laurie

Hmmm... certainly the Pocket Watch figure I referred to was quite an old item, I believe.

The prop, well that was just a Poser Primitive...

I've certainly not had the same issue across the board.

So far just with those two items together. So maybe it's something in the CR2 or PP2 eh? If it was even the same thing you had...

Anyway... those shoes look nice Laurie. Have you got plans for releasing them perhaps?

Yeah, I'll most likely be throwing em all in my ShareCG freestuff when I'm done with em ;) They're not very good...lol.

Laurie

Cool - they look good to me... I'll keep and eye out for them

I'm almost done with the pumps :). I just need to get the shaders fleshed out and you KNOW how much I LOVE the material room cough...lmao.

Laurie

He he... about as much as you like feet, the way I understand it...? LOL :biggrin:

Quote - He he... about as much as you like feet, the way I understand it...? LOL :biggrin:

Less...lmao

Laurie

Laurie

Looking very nice Laurie.

Well you can offload it onto my hard drive... he he... I'm good with that

I was about to start searching for some V4 smart, heeled shoes, that weren't like some kind of bondage wear, for a render I got planned... and now that'll be that box ticked I reckon!

Thanks very much