I noticed that Tylers default pose is arms down about half way.  I want to try making some clothes for him.  How hard will it be to model around that?

Delaney

I think you're supposed to zero a figure before you use the setup room and conform anyway ;). His zero pose is legs and arms out :). I always make dynamic clothes around a zeroed figure as well.

Laurie

Ohhh okay, so I'd just zero him before I export him as the OBJ.. that makes it easier!  Thanks Laurie!

Just make sure you get the word from a modeler that makes conformers, just in case I'm wrong. I am once in awhile. LOL. Dynamic, yes definitely zeroed. Conformers, I think, but I'm not entirely sure.

Laurie

Yup, always zeroed. Also make sure he is in the default position (x0, y0, z0 trans) on both hip and body.

Quote - Yup, always zeroed. Also make sure he is in the default position (x0, y0, z0 trans) on both hip and body.

Will do!  :)  

Thank you so much.

I agree that the figure should be zeroed and you shouldn't have any problems making clothing for it.  However, Poser shifts the figure (cr2) ever so slightly from the position of it's obj file.  Because of this, I always use the original obj file to build clothes around.  If you load a zeroed figure, and then load it's obj file, you'll see that they don't match exactly.  I'm sure there must be a good explanation for this, but I probably wouldn't understand it if they told me.

I agree it's usually best to model clothing around the base OBJ file rather than an exported one; but in this case, Tyler is a morph. 

I would suggest this .. if the intent is to model the clothing ONLY for Tyler, then the only choice is to export the Tyler morph from Poser, being very careful not to include any rotations or translations before doing so.

However, if the intent is to also include support for the other body morphs in the clothing, then your best bet will be to model the clothing around the base shape (the original OBJ file) and then add the Tyler morph, along with the other body morphs you want to support, into the base clothing.

If you are going to use the Tyler CR2 as a starting point for clothing development, there are two useful tools in the Library's Pose>TylerGND>Specialty set. There's a Zero pose and a Turn Off IK pose. You can use both of these to zero all joints and body translations, and disable IK. Also you could zero the figure using the Joint Editor (button at the bottom) and turn off IK manually by Right Clicking on the figure and scrolling down to the IK channels and turning them all off.

And yes, I agree with Deecey, you could also use the OBJ.

Quote - I agree it's usually best to model clothing around the base OBJ file rather than an exported one; but in this case, Tyler is a morph. 

I would suggest this .. if the intent is to model the clothing ONLY for Tyler, then the only choice is to export the Tyler morph from Poser, being very careful not to include any rotations or translations before doing so.

However, if the intent is to also include support for the other body morphs in the clothing, then your best bet will be to model the clothing around the base shape (the original OBJ file) and then add the Tyler morph, along with the other body morphs you want to support, into the base clothing.

I'm slightly confused with this.  I know that Tyler is James (I believe) reinvented - weightmapped and resculpted.  The CR2 I have of Tyler has all the morphs in him.  Couldn't I just use the Morphing Clothes to put the morphs from the Tyler CR2 into the clothing?  

Delaney

Quote - If you are going to use the Tyler CR2 as a starting point for clothing development, there are two useful tools in the Library's Pose>TylerGND>Specialty set. There's a Zero pose and a Turn Off IK pose. You can use both of these to zero all joints and body translations, and disable IK. Also you could zero the figure using the Joint Editor (button at the bottom) and turn off IK manually by Right Clicking on the figure and scrolling down to the IK channels and turning them all off.

And yes, I agree with Deecey, you could also use the OBJ.

Hi Thinkcooper,

I have been saving the figures as .obj and then bringing them into Silo.  Which program are you using for clothes modeling?

Delaney

Well, you're partly right. Tyler is a morph of Ryan2 who is really a reworked James...heh. If Tyler has an .obj file, I would use that to model around unless you want your clothes to also work on Ryan2. In that case then I would start on Ryan2 and then add Tylers morphs. That may not completely work however since the jcms are slightly different on Tyler than Ryan. It won't entirely fit. You should ask Blackhearted, but I'm sure he said Ryan clothing won't automatically fit, even if you add Tyler's morph.

Laurie

Quote - I agree that the figure should be zeroed and you shouldn't have any problems making clothing for it.  However, Poser shifts the figure (cr2) ever so slightly from the position of it's obj file.  Because of this, I always use the original obj file to build clothes around.  If you load a zeroed figure, and then load it's obj file, you'll see that they don't match exactly.  I'm sure there must be a good explanation for this, but I probably wouldn't understand it if they told me.

This is good to know.  I wonder if that positioning issue can be corrected when you bring the obj of the clothing in and turn it into the conforming CR2?

Quote - Well, you're partly right. Tyler is a morph of Ryan2 who is really a reworked James...heh. If Tyler has an .obj file, I would use that to model around unless you want your clothes to also work on Ryan2. In that case then I would start on Ryan2.

Laurie

So many names!  :)  Okay, I get it now.  I'll have a look at Ryan2 and decide, but Tyler is pretty cute!

I was thinking his face seems like it would be a nice place to begin sculpting some morphs, too.  Clothing first though!

Delaney

Yeah, I like Tyler. I've never used Ryan (or any incarnation of a Poser standard figure other than Dork) in my life ;).

I've been working on Tyler's face as well, mostly just around the eyes, because I never liked Ryan's eyes. Weird lookin'...lol. I'm sure BH would have done more had he more time (he did manage to chase the Alyson look out of Anastasia's eyes..heh). I can't complain about free really (but I do...pfft) since I can do those things myself. And if they work out and look nice, I'll share :).

Laurie

Quote - Yeah, I like Tyler. I've never used Ryan (or any incarnation of a Poser standard figure other than Dork) in my life ;).

I've been working on Tyler's face as well, mostly just around the eyes, because I never liked Ryan's eyes. Weird lookin'...lol. I'm sure BH would have done more had he more time (he did manage to chase the Alyson look out of Anastasia's eyes..heh). I can't complain about free really (but I do...pfft) since I can do those things myself. And if they work out and look nice, I'll share :).

Laurie

I would love to have any face morphs you come up with, Laurie!

I have been looking at Mikki4 too. Such beautiful skin - I would love someone to come up with more variety in the eye morphs for her too.  I squealed at all the elfy ear morphs though, those are going to be fun!

Delaney

Quote - then your best bet will be to model the clothing around the base shape (the original OBJ file) and then add the Tyler morph, along with the other body morphs you want to support, into the base clothing.

^i disagree with this.

sure, if your morphed shape is just the base figure with bigger boobs, go for it. but there is a major difference between tyler and ryan. not to mention that his joints and JCMs are different and many of the base Ryan deformers have been stripped out and replaced with more precise JCMs.

if you want clothing that looks good on Tyler, then model it and conform it for Tyler.

i have never been a fan of 'universal clothing'.  when you go to a tailor the first thing they do is take your precise measurements, and then they tailor the clothing and cut to fit and flatter you.

For clothing, how would we go about transferring (or replicating) Tyler's JCM's?

EDIT: Whoops originally put "for clothing" twice, lol

Quote - For clothing, how would we go about transferring (or replicating) Tyler's JCM's?

some shouldnt affect you. like the knee JCMs, im pretty sure wont affect clothing makers unless they are making something like a super tight wetsuit.

JCMs i would highly recommend supporting in clothing are ones like the butt JCM, otherwise youll suffer from pancake-ass.

arm jcms like biceps/triceps/elbows can either be supported in the clothing, or disabled in the base figure.

for my tank top i was able to do everything via weight maps/bulge maps, however if it had sleeves i would have turned the JCMs off in the Tyler figure and saved this figure (W/O JCMs) to my library. id conform my clothing to that, and when that was done i would load the clothing on the full Tyler with JCMs and create JCMs for the clothing to match the JCMs on the figure. this would yield the best result. i use Colorcurvature's PML, but you can do this with the new GoZ functionality too.

i dont use any clothing conversion utilities or anything like that, so perhaps theres an 'easier' way someone else could contribute.

ill make a set of JCM enablers/disablers today or tomorrow and send them to SM to include with the upcoming Tyler SR, and upload them to my freestuff (or attach them here) in the meantime.

cheers,
-Gabriel

just wondering... now that we can analyze ERC with python.... would it help an utility to pose a figure in the "key" positions where the various JCMs max out? kind of a guided procedure.

Quote - i have never been a fan of 'universal clothing'.  when you go to a tailor the first thing they do is take your precise measurements, and then they tailor the clothing and cut to fit and flatter you.

But when I go to Wal-Mart the t-shirts on the rack come in just a few sizes, and whether you are "cut" or flabby, one of them will fit you fine.

Maybe we are not in the same income bracket here.

So just to be clear, we will want to use tyler as the donor cr2 for rigging, rather than ryan2.

Does the same hold true for anastasia clothing vs alyson.. because I've been doing it the other way with her.  Or are her joints not changed much from alyson2s?

Quote - > Quote - then your best bet will be to model the clothing around the base shape (the original OBJ file) and then add the Tyler morph, along with the other body morphs you want to support, into the base clothing.

^i disagree with this.

sure, if your morphed shape is just the base figure with bigger boobs, go for it. but there is a major difference between tyler and ryan. not to mention that his joints and JCMs are different and many of the base Ryan deformers have been stripped out and replaced with more precise JCMs.

if you want clothing that looks good on Tyler, then model it and conform it for Tyler.

i have never been a fan of 'universal clothing'.  when you go to a tailor the first thing they do is take your precise measurements, and then they tailor the clothing and cut to fit and flatter you.

Quote - > Quote - i have never been a fan of 'universal clothing'.  when you go to a tailor the first thing they do is take your precise measurements, and then they tailor the clothing and cut to fit and flatter you.

But when I go to Wal-Mart the t-shirts on the rack come in just a few sizes, and whether you are "cut" or flabby, one of them will fit you fine.

Maybe we are not in the same income bracket here.

You'd still need Tyler's jcms...lol. Otherwise, it won't fit, even loosely or unflatteringly ;)

Laurie

Quote - But when I go to Wal-Mart the t-shirts on the rack come in just a few sizes, and whether you are "cut" or flabby, one of them will fit you fine. Maybe we are not in the same income bracket here.

same difference.

't-shirts' arent exactly very fitted clothing.  you can make make one high-quality tshirt and with scaling it would fit every figure under the sun.

..but when you buy a size 10 pair of jeans at Wal-Mart, you shouldnt expect them to look flattering on a size 0 girl.

for pants, suits, dresses, lingerie, etc it looks much better when you can tailor the clothing directly for the figure you are making to ensure it looks flattering.  you cant model lingerie for 'teenage vicky', 'supermodel vicky' or 'waif vicky' and expect it to look good on 'morbidly obese vicky', or even on Miki4 or Antonia. clothing for different sizes and body shapes is tailored completely differently. 

for clothing to look best you should model, conform and JCM it for the figure you are advertising it for/it will be primarily used with.

Quote - So just to be clear, we will want to use tyler as the donor cr2 for rigging, rather than ryan2. Does the same hold true for anastasia clothing vs alyson.. because I've been doing it the other way with her.  Or are her joints not changed much from alyson2s?

Anastasia has the exact same joints as Alyson 2. she just has her base deformers stripped out (some werent working properly anyway), and has a new set of JCMs for improved bending. for Anastasia clothing you would use Alyson as a donor, but id still recommend modeling it on the Anastasia body if you want it to look good and are intending to market it with primarily Anastasia promos. i find it is easier (and yields better results) to morph something outwards to a lower detailed shape, than it is to take something from a larger, lower detailed shape and morph it inwards to a more detailed one. 

Tyler has some actual rigging tweaks, especially around the shoulders, so I would recommend using the Tyler CR2 as the donor.

with the weight mapped rigging, what i do is the following:
-you load your clothing you wish to conform (i recommend you group it yourself, and in the next step when poser asks if you want to 'automatically group' it, choose no).
-in the setup room choose your clothing item, then navigate to Figures>People>Tyler and click the checkmark to change figure. choose no to the auto group promot, and it will transfer the rigging/WMs from Tyler to your clothing item. it transfers everything from Tyler including deformers/morph dial names/materials/etc so youll need to either clean up the CR2 manually, use an automated app like PhilC's CR2 editor, or wait for someone to release a Tyler dev version or 'Tyler Lite' that has all this stuff stripped out.
-edit your WMs and bulge maps for the clothing joints, using the add/subtract and smooth tools.
-add any necessary JCMs to fix pokethrough you cant solve with the WMs/bulge maps

i find that - at least with Alyson - tops (like t-shirt size) conform almost perfectly, with very little work needed tweaking the WMs, just a couple of pokes with the WM editing tool set to smooth.

the hip area on figures, on the other hand, is a nightmare to do with any sortof tight-fitting clothing item with the approximate coverage of a pair of briefs. so either make them longer or make them a thong - but avoid the briefs/booty short size if you want clothing that actually fits tight.

keep in mind im not primarily a clothing creator, but im sure some people that focus more on clothing can chime in with some more tips/advice.

cheers,
-Gabriel

First hand experience agrees with Blackhearted.....if you're modeling for Tyler, export the Tyler OBJ file as your mannequin.  I tried the Ryan route, and nothing, absolutely nothing, fits Tyler - pants are way too big in the abdomen/hip area, and way too small in the shins.  Shirts don't even come close.  Had to start over from scratch.

submitted a set of distributable Tyler JCM control poses to my freestuff, those should be up soon.

If there is going to be a Tyler SR, can we have some elf ears?

All the best.

LROG

Tyler JCM's up!!!

LINK TO FREEBIE

All the best.

LROG

Any chance of a little tutorial by someone on how to use the JCM freebie??

All the best.

LROG

its in the readme :)

all it does is selectively turn OFF the JCMs in the tyler figure.

so there are at least two ways you can use it:

1. if you are making conforming clothing, its more straightforward to do a first pass and conform them to a JCM-less Tyler, then re-enable the JCMs and match them in your clothing.

2. if you make a long-sleeved shirt, and for some reason DONT want to support the bicep/tricep flex JCMs for example (but you should, looks way more realistic), then you can bundle the JCM control with your clothing pack and either instruct the customer to click the Arm-Biceps JCM OFF and Arm-Triceps JCM OFF poses -- or better yet call them yourself in your clothing item via a readscript pose.

Thanks for the info BH.  This is pretty much the workflow I had in mind.  The one thing I usually do is create a 'dummy' pair of pants and shirt to fit the character, rig and tweak that as described and then from there on out use those as the donor cr2.  Provided the basic fit of the next items I make is similar to the 'dummy' ones it saves me a fair bit of tweaking over going back to the base or dev cr2s.

Quote - > Quote - So just to be clear, we will want to use tyler as the donor cr2 for rigging, rather than ryan2. Does the same hold true for anastasia clothing vs alyson.. because I've been doing it the other way with her.  Or are her joints not changed much from alyson2s?

 

Anastasia has the exact same joints as Alyson 2. she just has her base deformers stripped out (some werent working properly anyway), and has a new set of JCMs for improved bending. for Anastasia clothing you would use Alyson as a donor, but id still recommend modeling it on the Anastasia body if you want it to look good and are intending to market it with primarily Anastasia promos. i find it is easier (and yields better results) to morph something outwards to a lower detailed shape, than it is to take something from a larger, lower detailed shape and morph it inwards to a more detailed one. 

Tyler has some actual rigging tweaks, especially around the shoulders, so I would recommend using the Tyler CR2 as the donor.

with the weight mapped rigging, what i do is the following:
-you load your clothing you wish to conform (i recommend you group it yourself, and in the next step when poser asks if you want to 'automatically group' it, choose no).
-in the setup room choose your clothing item, then navigate to Figures>People>Tyler and click the checkmark to change figure. choose no to the auto group promot, and it will transfer the rigging/WMs from Tyler to your clothing item. it transfers everything from Tyler including deformers/morph dial names/materials/etc so youll need to either clean up the CR2 manually, use an automated app like PhilC's CR2 editor, or wait for someone to release a Tyler dev version or 'Tyler Lite' that has all this stuff stripped out.
-edit your WMs and bulge maps for the clothing joints, using the add/subtract and smooth tools.
-add any necessary JCMs to fix pokethrough you cant solve with the WMs/bulge maps

i find that - at least with Alyson - tops (like t-shirt size) conform almost perfectly, with very little work needed tweaking the WMs, just a couple of pokes with the WM editing tool set to smooth.

the hip area on figures, on the other hand, is a nightmare to do with any sortof tight-fitting clothing item with the approximate coverage of a pair of briefs. so either make them longer or make them a thong - but avoid the briefs/booty short size if you want clothing that actually fits tight.

keep in mind im not primarily a clothing creator, but im sure some people that focus more on clothing can chime in with some more tips/advice.

cheers,
-Gabriel