Does anybody know how to get normal maps into Vue with texture? I can get the normal map in but I then can not seem to put a texture on it even when I do a  mix material in the material editor. This might be a question for 3d coat forum which is what I use as a modeling program but I thought that someone here would know how to do that. Also, I'm new at the modeling and texturing and with all the lingo and definitions such as "baking"  Anyway, if anyone is familiar with this and can help. It would be appreciated.

What version of Vue are we talking about?

I use Vue 10 complete. Does that make a difference?

I don't know about Vue Complete.  But in Vue Infinite, on the Bump tab of the material editor, there is an import normal map button to click on.

Normal maps in Vue only work if applied on planes, not objects.  I had a deadline the other day and ended up having to use modo to render my normal mapped objects from 3D-Coat.

I've used normal mapped objects without problems before - ZBrush sculpts normally

If you look carefully at your model, you'll see some problems, unless ZBrush (shocking!) uses non-tangential normals (so outdated).

nope - never seen any.  The only reason I don't use them more often is they are a pain to make and I don't really need them

E-on knows about the problem.  And no, Vue 11 won't have it fixed.  E-on is in panic mode for Monday about other problems.

Thanks for the responses in regards to normals. I figured there must be a way to export normals with the textures right from 3d coat but I havn't figured that out. I"ll have to go to the 3dc forum with that question. I"d hate to have to get another program like Modo just to take advantage of normals. The reason I would like to use normals is that it doesn't raise the poly's but rather fakes the displacement. I know it is usually used for gaming characters but you can get some high res textures that way. Thanks again for the response. Actually very helpful. I'm clearer on the subject now.

From 3D-Coat, export your textured model as OBJ (it is UV mapped, right?).  The export dialogue box asks if you want to save the normal map into the folder with your OBJ file.

In 3D-Coat's preferences, set the Normal export to Maya, Blender format.  This works best in programs like maya, blender, modo, carrara (using the Baker plugin, not the Deeper plugin which is too old like Vue's normal map importing is).  But if your normal comes from a flat plane, say a wall or floor object, Vue will render it fine.

Yes it is uv mapped through blacksmith 3d. (great program).

Do you mean that if the normal comes from a flat plane it will still render correctly to the object that is not a plane? such as a ship or archetecture? I"m kind of new to the modeling and mapping thing, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. Trying to learn. I could download blender. I use to have that program but to me it was a steep learning curve at the time. Maybe not now. I never really have looked at the export dialogue box in 3d coat very closely. I might want to do that. It sounds as if you are saying I might need to get a baker plugin? Is this something that comes with programs like maya, blender? or is it a third party plugin that I would have to get. (My ignorance shows I know). Anyway, I really appreciate the responses. Extremely helpful. Thanks.

Baker is a plugin for old Carrara.  I don't have a new version of Carrara, so I don't know if it does normal maps very well on its own or if it still needs the plugin.  Maya and Blender and modo already work with imported (tangential) normal maps.

What I mean by flat plane is, your object is just a flat 4-sided polygon (or with a diagonal line through it, so it's two triangles together to make a square plane).  That plane is then UV mapped in 3D-Coat and, say, you decide to paint rivets on it so it has a metal plating feel to it like a wall or floor might have.  Then you export the plane as an OBJ into your rendering program and apply the normal map you painted to it for the bump/normal channel.  In both 3D-Coat and your modeling/rendering program, the wall model is a that plane object.  You then copy/paste that wall next to itself to extend the length of the wall.

Last night I uninstalled Vue 10 Infinite and put Vue 9.5 Infinite back on.  It doesn't like tangential normal maps either from 3D-Coat.

At http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfjB-ekFWHk I have a video showing how to paint rivets and render them with normal maps.  Very exciting.

Hey, the video was cool! Actually I don't know if I mentioned this but Vue will correctly apply normals to an object. The problem is that Vue can't do both the normal and color or diffuse map. It's either one or the other. That's too bad. Vue is top notch for rendering scenes with atmosphere and lighting, scenes to put the models into. I don't suppose Modo or Blender have any significant rendering abilities.

My version of Vue doesn't allow normal mapping on shapes that have more than a 90 degree curve to them.  It is a throwback to the way OpenGL and video games used to handle normal mapping.  So just one quarter of a cylinder's surface shows the correct normal mapping with proper diffuse color mapping and all, while the other three quarters of the cylinder has no normal mapping and has screwed-up diffuse/highlighting/reflection channels.

That's remeinds me of one more thing I can try in Vue to get normals working (maybe).

I haven't used Blender in years.  But I see it doing some nice rendering.  The user interface is getting better for it, but still not what I prefer.  Modo's rendering is some of the best out there.  It doesn't allow for huge models/scenes though like Vue does.  I can't stand Modo's modeler or user interface though.  I just use it for rendering only.  Trees take forever to render in Modo.  But I use Vue for that.

I hear ya. I think I'll just have to stick with full poly modeling and texturing in 3d coat. The poly's in 3d coat can be downgraded without loss of detail or resolution. Not so bad really. I learned a hell of a lot with our communication. Thanks again.

I don't know if you ever played Morrowind or Oblivion.  But while you're inside a building, if there are people on the floor above you, their shadows that are cast on the floor above you, you can see on your ceiling.  Same thing is happening in Vue when I apply various normal maps on my different models.  The shadows on one side of my model go through to the other side of the model.

I'll file this one in the same catagory as Vue's old trick of making objects more transparent as they become more reflective.

If you have a normal map that is part of or for a UVmapped, sculpted object, it should apply via 'import normal map' just fine. 

You can also load a normal map on a terrain or Vue primitive, metablob etc if you load it as a layer. If you do so just straight up, you'll get the error message about UVs.

Though I've not shown anything in the galleries (too busy building content) I've been playing with normals since V9. They aren't all that and a bag of chips.

They are cool no doubt and look great if executed well. What made me drop them in favor of old fashioned bump and highlight was that, in the function editor, the normal map takes over and you can't mix it with anything without headache. 

My new kit Cliffhangers was at first using only normals....but because of the limitations, I did the whole kit over and dropped the normals....

M

One thing I would have liked is to still have control of the bump height when normal maps are applied.  Some of my normals are weak in the bump department, so in modo I just increase the bump value.  But in Vue, the bump value is not accessible.

Normal maps originally were for putting terrains on flat planes and have the camera look down at them and it would appear to be full-on terrain geometry when it was actually just a single polygon ground plane.  Rendering such terrains is nearly instant.  Vue is excellent at normal mapping in this respect.

Castaneda,

I was messing with modo just now and got it to render normals the way Vue does by default.  So I undid my mistake in modo and thought if the same procedure would work in Vue.  Long story short, I have Vue 9.5 Infinite rendering tangential normal maps correctly now.  I'm guessing Vue 10/11 will do the same.

When you say tangential normal maps do you mean with texture and everything. I was able to get the normal map in Vue but I could not put a diffuse/color texture with it. Are you saying that you figured out how? If so, I would like to know what you did.

Normal maps have to be force-set to a gamma value of 1.0 when imported into your Vue material.  No other value will render tangential normal maps correctly.  Vue 8 and earlier did pretty much everything using gamma 1.0, so the issue didn't come up.

I'm letting E-on know so they can cancel the ticket.