Hi,

Using Vue 11 Complete and this is completely annoying and while it has been acknowledged by E-On I can't believe I am the only one with the issue or have noticed the problem.

If you create a new eco-system and add say 3 plants, presence is set to 33% for each one, if you adjust one up the other 2 get reduced which in my opinion is completely backwards.

Say I was creating a forest scene, I would want 100% ferns and 25% trees, this is impossible to do now.

And something far worse, I create a new ecosystem, add one plant and the presence is set to 100% and greyed out so you can't even adjust it, whats going on here!

What's going on is that you're not thinking.

In real life you can't fill a terrain with 100% of trees and then put something more on it. If you have 100% of something anywhere, that's it. Can you have 125% of your salary? You have 100% of your salary.

In real life, you can have a terrain with for example 75% trees and 25% ferns. That's normal life.

If you increase the ferns to 30%, obviously the trees go down to 70%.

If you want to decrease or increase the overall density, you have a different slider.

You have to think.

So if I wanted a forest with a complete covering of leaves, your telling me that the forest is going to be 80% trees and 20% leaves? You should probably try that as I have and all that ends up even with density to the max is about 10 leaves scattered around the place.

You could try putting (for example) the trees on one eco layer and the (example) leaves on another layer

gillbrooks is correct, of course. She thinks. :)

What you wanted is like a cartoon I once saw where a jacket was 100% cotton and 50% acrylic. :)

Very true Gill, but then I am messing around with layers, it just seems a bit of a backwards step as its creating more work trying to do what easily worked before.

No mate, what I wanted was for it to work like it did before, like it has done since I started using Vue at version 4. For some reason they decided to change it in this version.

I do agree though that I find it a tad annoying but as I often work with layers for my ecos it's not too much of an irk

I guess e-on wants leaves on their own layer now.  The code was changed to better fit their eco stacking.  It will get tweaked more in time for Vue 12.

Going more than 100% is indeed not real world correct, but then again, you can still do it in the density tab, which is a good thing if you jnow Vue well enough, so Radom7, I wouldn't laugh so loud at Jonj.

Ok,

One last example, for instance I want :-

10% Flowers

10% Weeds

20% Trees

I want the rest blank.

I can't do that now, as it all has to add up to 100%, to me thats not moving forwards, its taken away the ability to do the most basic functions without now messing around with multiple layers which isn't exactly fun.

Well, you won't populate 100% if you don't set density to 100%. What if you populate flowers 25%, weefs 25, and trees 50, then set density to 40%, it should be good, noo? But I agree, less intuitive, and geeky!

Thanks for replying Bruno, yes I guess I could do that, it just seems that E-On have made something that was relatively simple far more complicated than it needs to be.

Quote - Ok,

One last example, for instance I want :-

10% Flowers

10% Weeds

20% Trees

I want the rest blank.

I can't do that now, as it all has to add up to 100%, to me thats not moving forwards, its taken away the ability to do the most basic functions without now messing around with multiple layers which isn't exactly fun.

In old version you could not do this also, especially "the rest blank". Try it for yourself. What would you do in old version for this? If you did 10, 10, 20 in the old version the result in reality is 25%, 25%, 50%. That is logical. Pure mathematic. If you want "rest blank", decrease density.

in old version what is the real result if you do 100 and 25? that is not intuitive. it is not 100% and 25% because it can not be more than 100%.

in old version, 100 and 25 would be in reality 80% and 20% (125 = 100, so 25 = 20).

I think setting 80% and 20% now is more intuitive than doing 100 and 25 before.

I prefer the world being 100% covered with nothing for starters.  So when you added a tree object at defaut 100% and an overall scene coverage density of 50%, you end up with a world 50% covered with trees.

Then when you assign the tree to 50% and add another tree at 50%, you end up with a world being 50% covered with trees still, but the trees are half and half two kinds of trees.

Radom27, so if you have a field your telling me that 100% of that field has something on it? Of course you can have blank areas. And if you have used previous versions of Vue you would know that they never had percentages so I wouldnt have been able to do it in the "old version" as you suggest.

And ok I am talking in percentages but for anyone that remembers Vue 10 and below default prescence was set to 1.00 and could be adjusted above and below this amount, I always took 1.00 to be 100% so please forgive me for any assumptions I have made that have been incorrect. 

Either way you could still have multiple plants/objects set to 1.00 or 2.00 or 0.3 etc, it didn't matter and I could always achieve the result I wanted to.

What I am trying to say is I can't quite seem to get the same effect with the new way things have been done now that I used to. For me its just a step back but there you go.

The behaviour in Vue 11 is no different to what it was in Vue 10.5 and earlier. The only thing that has changed is that the proportions are now expressed as percentages instead of as numbers.

Jonj1611 try the following, open the previous version of Vue that you have installed prior to Vue 11. Create a terrain, edit the material, create an ecosystem layer, add two plants, Summer Cherry and Fir Tree, set each Presence value to 1, hit populate, note the number of instances, change the presence value of each plant to 2, hit populate, the number of instances doesn't change.

In Vue 11 the percentages are simply a way of expressing the proportions of the different rocks, plants, or objects that will be populated.

The Density controls how many instances you get.

Unless you have the parameter "Avoid Overlapping Instances" set to checked the coverage may well exceed 100% at high values of the Density parameter.

To my way of thinking in a scene with trees and ferns the ferns, being ground cover, would be better placed on a separate layer.

Using percentages to talk about actual number of trees being placed doesn't make any sense, as it is not possible to say what the maximum number of trees would actually be! You could talk about percentage coverage, and that could clearly be much higher than 100% either for a single species or for a number of species in agregate.

Hi Penboack,

Thanks for your reply.

Thankfully I have been using Vue long enough to know that density controls how many instances you get, I was talking about now being restricted to the 100% distrubution you get now. 

I am starting to understand the way it is done in Vue now but I still find the previous way easier and could set up my ecosystems a lot quicker, now if I am moving one slider, two or three others are moving and I am having to go back and adjust them, to me its still a step backwards.

Unfortunately your example wasn't a good choice as even if I did have 2 plants and I set them to 2.0 its no different from them being set to 1 or 3 or 4 or 5 etc, its still just two plants so you will always get an equal amount from that example, I was talking about when you had like 8 or 9 plants and you could set a couple at 1, some at 0.8. some at 0.6 etc.

I dont think I actually mentioned what actual number of trees would be placed??? I was talking about presence?

Again thank you for your comments :)

In previous versions of Vue the application calculated the proportions by dividing the presence value of each plant by the sum of the presence values of all plants and then used this to assign instances. Increasing the presence of a plant decreased the proportions of the others automatically whilst retaining their relative proportions.

The new system is identical.

It does however look like there is an issue in Vue 11 where when you change the proportion of one instance the applicaiton does not always maintain the relative proportions of the others.

I am a bit surprised  that this wasn't picked up in the testing of the new version...

I made a quick eco in Vue 9 giving each plant random prescence values.  If we assume that in the old way a value of 1.000 = 100% then we were able to give values >100%.  Also, if we change a value of 1 plant, the other values remained the same.

This s/shot shows that Vue9 eco material and also saved and loaded into Vue11.   Here, the values are shown as percentages and if I (for instance) change the value of the Summer Cherry to 25% the Fall Cherry automatically changes to 67%.  However, the Long Grass remains at 8%.  If I further change the value of the Fall Cherry to 61%, the value of the Long Grass increases to 14% and the Summer Cherry remains static at 25%.

Changing the value of the Long Grass affects the Fall Cherry above it.

Thank you Gill :)

:b_cool:

Quote - If we assume that in the old way a value of 1.000 = 100% then we were able to give values >100%.  Also, if we change a value of 1 plant, the other values remained the same.

The problem is that I don't think that in previous versions of Vue a presence value of 1.000 = 100%.

I think that a presence value of 1.000 expressed in percent would be 1.000 divided by the sum of the presence values of the objects being populated then multipled by 100.

So in your Vue 9 example a presence value of 1.000 would be 1.000 / (2.8 + 6.5 + 0.8), which is 9.90%.

If you take the Summer Cherry tree presnece value of 2.8 and multiply it by 9.90% you get 27.72% which rounded up is what Vue 11 displays as the proportion expressed as a percentage.

Quote - This s/shot shows that Vue9 eco material and also saved and loaded into Vue11.   Here, the values are shown as percentages and if I (for instance) change the value of the Summer Cherry to 25% the Fall Cherry automatically changes to 67%.  However, the Long Grass remains at 8%.  If I further change the value of the Fall Cherry to 61%, the value of the Long Grass increases to 14% and the Summer Cherry remains static at 25%.

Changing the value of the Long Grass affects the Fall Cherry above it.

This is what I was referring to in my previous post as an issue with Vue 11.

When you change the value of the Summer Cherry both the Fall Cherry and the Long Grass should automatically change.

penboack my brain hurts after reading your post hahaaaaaaaa.  I think that's why when I saw the changes I decided the layer route is the best option - just means I'll be using it more than I did before