I wont be buying these teens as I can't be bothered with the DSON tomfoolery, but I'm interested in any opions about these new characters. They look nice, maybe a bit toonish, but to be honest, I can't tell anymore.

Yeah, they DO look toonish - a bit like carricatures. I ain't intersted. I guess I'm doomed to using the Gen 3 kids for the rest of my days...haha. The new kids look like toons, the Gen 4 kids just looked downright scary, the Gen 3 kids were adorable.

Laurie

They have what I think of as "that Genesis look."  Very rounded and smooth.  Sort of a '40s/'50s aethestic. 

But I kind of like it, for children.  A lot of what makes a toon are the childlike features: large eyes, smooth features, etc. 

I don't think DAZ has ever done children well.  Out of the box, none of them looked very good to me (though some character packs are great).  The Mil Baby was downright creepy.

At a glance, Justin and Julie might be their best ever, IMO.  I would buy them in a heartbeat if I used Genesis.

I would have rather seen more realistic default preteens/teen figures made for Genesis and then the typical Sarsa/Thorne sweetness as an add-on morph for those who like it.

But on the plus side the overall proportions appear to be useable so they are a good starting point to do more realistic sculpts.

Depends how well the new shape is rigged, if it has custom made rigging and JCMs to accommodate the new shape or not.

If I have to do major fixing I rather weightmap my own figures.

But if everything else fails, there will be at least some decent quality new kid/teen clothes and hairstyles in the shops I can port over to my "own" kids.

:-)

They look like Anime figures to me. Not a bad choice if that's what you want, but not for me. I've already got teen solutions using M4 and V4. That coupled with it needing DSON = no sale here.

i agree with the toonish. 

One word says it all "Thorne"

Well, for once, how strange, I liked them.
And the Pro pack has some very nice hair and fine clothing.

But??? They are for DS. That DSON thing killed them for me.

IF they had come as STANDARD object files and cr2's, I would have bought the pro pack.

And in 17 years of Posering that would have been the 4th item I would have bought.

When it comes to kid figures, there may be a pattern.  that is:

Low sales, so no sense making a quality figure.  which breeds

Low sales because they're so restricted and unrealistic, which dictates:

spending less time making a quality figure that because of the past experiences

will be largely unsupported, sooooooo

another less usable figure just to say you have one.

Death spiral.

Doric.

The shoulders are way too small and the hips too wide. The feet are too small, too.

Typical "cutesy" toon proportions.

This would be a relatively easy fix but unfortunately the current exporter breaks Poser's scaling as well as the built in Genesis scaling.

Default shader is useless in PP 2012 as the diffuse is tinted blue.

Rigging is "meh". I see no attempts made to improve the rigging over standard Genesis like it was done with V5 and M5.

Right is how Justin loads, left is EZSkin and some rescaling and playing with the joint centers.

Attached Link: Here they are in poser with default textures.

All I can say now is that DAZ doesn't even bother checking the poser companion files before releasing a product, some DSON CR2s point to a wrong Python file name.... So I had to fix this by editing the cr2s.

Quote - Wow, that was unexpected from DAZ after skipping the Gen 4 YT and they released them one day before the world ends so I have no choice but to buy the pro bundle.

All I can say now is that DAZ doesn't even bother checking the poser companion files before releasing a product, some DSON CR2s point to a wrong Python file name.... So I had to fix this by editing the cr2s.

 

"It's not easy being green"? Look a lot like the millenium preteens. While they fill a size gap, you are correct. Not an improvement, to be polite.  Bought the basic packages with my PC coupon, so not much of a loss there. Who knows, maybe things will work out "soon".

I'll stick with Luke and Laura for the time being...

By coincidence, I'd just started work last night on a scene that I wanted to have a young teen character in...

...it's for the January Forum Comp in fact.

Luke and Laura were before my time... I've not even been able to figure out where to get them, if I could. Are they available at Daz somewhere still?

I'd contemplated Genesis, but decided I'd go with morphing and scaling V4... starting off with using / looking at the English Schoolgirl product in Oscarsson's store here, to get an idea of how it might be done.

The scaling all works so well in SR3.1, if not using Genesis and the DSON Importer, and I decided it would be a good challenge... which it has been. I've even managed to properly figure out how to adjust joint centers (beyond just the theory I'd previously taken in) whilst trying to fit some alternate clothing (V3 clothing, WW converted to V4 and then scaled).

This was all before I got the email from Daz about this new pair...

I'm unsure as to what - as in exactly how much novelty - these add to Genesis, to be honest? I thought the point of Genesis was that you could dial up a character of any age? Are these adding some sculptural, or rigging, refinement I presume?

I agree... in the promos at least, I think they look too Toony. I guess that's maybe just because Genesis is trying to be all things to all people... realist and toon... and these figures are meant to be able to go either way... so the promos... as with a lot of the Genesis promos maybe reflect that?

Of course the Forum render challenge that I'm working on putting together an entry for is, in fact, on a more toony sort of theme this time... but still. At the risk of giving something of my idea away in advance, I'm not looking for this teen figure, for my render, to be a toon.

Anyway... I'm not convinced of the need for these... for my own requirements anyway... given the range of stuff I already have at my disposal.

I'm going to carry on with my V4 teen scaling experiment... and then maybe have a go doing the same to Miki 4 or Anastasia... myself, from scratch at some point, I think...

...because I think that might be fun to try ;-)

Doesn't it make sense for the Genesis kids to be exaggeratedly young (and therefore kind of toony)?  Large eyes, baby faces, narrow shoulders, etc. 

I thought the point of Genesis was that it was easy to combine "DNA."  Presumably most people who buy Julie and Justin also have a bunch of adult DNA, and can mix it in as needed to create an older/more realistic looking kid.  Isn't that how it works?

Luke and Laura, the young teens, are here.  I bought them, and use them, but I didn't care for their default faces.  IMO, the faces look too old for kids.  Too sharp, or something.  Looking at them, I don't think "kid."  To me, they look too much like Mike and Vicky, and not enough like kids.

Figures are as well as any other Genesis character.

Quote - Doesn't it make sense for the Genesis kids to be exaggeratedly young (and therefore kind of toony)?  Large eyes, baby faces, narrow shoulders, etc. 

I thought the point of Genesis was that it was easy to combine "DNA."  Presumably most people who buy Julie and Justin also have a bunch of adult DNA, and can mix it in as needed to create an older/more realistic looking kid.  Isn't that how it works?

Luke and Laura, the young teens, are here.  I bought them, and use them, but I didn't care for their default faces.  IMO, the faces look too old for kids.  Too sharp, or something.  Looking at them, I don't think "kid."  To me, they look too much like Mike and Vicky, and not enough like kids.

Yeah, very good point about the child / toon relationship... in terms of features / proportions.

Thanks for the Luke and Laura link... I see what you mean about the default faces too...

Quote - Doesn't it make sense for the Genesis kids to be exaggeratedly young (and therefore kind of toony)?  Large eyes, baby faces, narrow shoulders, etc. 

I thought the point of Genesis was that it was easy to combine "DNA."  Presumably most people who buy Julie and Justin also have a bunch of adult DNA, and can mix it in as needed to create an older/more realistic looking kid.  Isn't that how it works?

Exactly, mixing Julie and Justin with other characters "age" them. Left is Julie and right her old sister half Julie/Half V4

Just shrink the eyes and the toon factor is gone.

Quote - Yeah, they DO look toonish - a bit like carricatures. I ain't intersted. I guess I'm doomed to using the Gen 3 kids for the rest of my days...haha. The new kids look like toons, the Gen 4 kids just looked downright scary, the Gen 3 kids were adorable.

Laurie

To be fair, Gen4 kids can be made very cute and realistic, it just takes work. While overall I think Matt is cuter in his default look, the relative lack of morphs make him harder to work with, he doesn't look as good scaled, and his joints make K4's awful joints look wonderful. But that's just my opinion.

As for the new Genesis teens...pass. They look okay if a bit toonish, but not worth the price tag.  

Quote - As for the new Genesis teens...pass. They look okay if a bit toonish, but not worth the price tag.  

 

I'll agree.  For what they are, definitely not worth the price.  DAZ kids have never been that good, not more than equal to the P4 kids.  Then they probably wonder why they're not top sellers.

Doric.

Quote - As for the new Genesis teens...pass. They look okay if a bit toonish, but not worth the price tag.

Agree. Passing too.

I wonder if any of the people at DAZ that have created kids and teens over the years actually do have kids themselves or even seen kids at all? I'm really starting to think someone who sits behind a desk all day and night and is out of touch with the real world makes the kids and teens at DAZ, but never goes out in the real world at all or even gets in touch with kids and teens...... somehow they always remind of children in movies like village of damned and children of corn and such.

Anyway I'm glad none of my 3 kids look like these..... I would be afraid to go to sleep at night if they did. As you can imagine, I won't be getting them, if I need toon kids, there are much better and more cute options available.

Quote -
Anyway I'm glad none of my 3 kids look like these..... I would be afraid to go to sleep at night if they did.

:lol:

What aeilkema said.

I really don't know what is so hard about looking into an anatomy book and/or at a couple of photographs first before you model something.

Here are two examples of the kind of realistic 3D children I think DAZ would be perfectely capable of making if only they wanted:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=961720&username=neftis&member&np

http://www.cgarena.com/freestuff/tutorials/max/young-girl/girl.html

This one turned out quite good too, but you do need to spend time fiddling-

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/full.php?image_id=2285333

I really like Justin's default face.  He looks less toony than Julie.  I think it's the eyebrows.  Julie looks like she has plucked her eyebrows half to death.  I hate the plucked eyebrows look, especially for a child.  Just doesn't look natural. 

Justin kinda looks like someone I know.  Even the hair is right.  I like the hair that's shown in the main promo pics.  Is that the Pure Hair?  It doesn't look the same on its own page. Looks really fake and anime.  Different morphs or textures, maybe?

Add a bit of Stephanie 5 and reduce the eye size.

I agree about the ridiculously narrow shoulders (actually, the upper torso as a whole is too narrow) - poses that move them back make things even worse. The arms are also a bit too thick.

I decided to get these and see how they compared.

Unfortunately the Poser Companion File installers for mac seem to be broken.

No PCFs get installed to my Genesis runtime... the installer just skips any option to select a content directory.

Also seems to be an issue with conforming hair... i.e. the scaling is broken, apparently.

Anyone else found these issues?

Having got these, I'm actually still not sure what they add over just mixing, say, the Stephanie 4 morph with the Basic Child morph? (even if they did work)

Quote - I decided to get these and see how they compared.

Unfortunately the Poser Companion File installers for mac seem to be broken.

No PCFs get installed to my Genesis runtime... the installer just skips any option to select a content directory.

Also seems to be an issue with conforming hair... i.e. the scaling is broken, apparently.

Anyone else found these issues?

Having got these, I'm actually still not sure what they add over just mixing, say, the Stephanie 4 morph with the Basic Child morph? (even if they did work)

i'm having the same problems with the PC installers

I found how to sort the issue with the conforming hair... just had to run the Transfer Active Morphs script.

I can wait till after Christmas for a fixed installer I guess, for those Poser Companion Files... but the current installer is definitely goosed ;-)

There's a long thread over at DAZ complaining that the teens' teeth are screwed up.  But they look okay from what I can see in this thread.  Did you guys find a fix? 

I quite like their look but I don't like the price, especially if it means I have to commit to Dson.

Not noticed any issues with teeth... yet ;-)

But a correction morph is already on ShareCG, though.

As I wrote earlier, there are aspects of Genesis and especially the teens that I think could have been made better.

But I also have to say that this is some mega-fine shoulder rigging the folks at DAZ did.  :-)

Speaking of teeth... a good orthodontic brace / retainer conformer or smart prop would be handy to go with this pair, I think ;-)

Hi, I got Julie when she came out and the DSON import to Poser 2012 is horrible. I have not looked at her in a render yet.  I wanted to make some young teen clothing that was more toon like and why I got her but then realized, (don't laugh to hard) that you don't actually make clothing for the Julie charactor, you are just making genesis clothing.

Not sure what I going to do with her yet, I thought she was a new charactor I could make clothing for to sell that was genesis type model and not just a genesis shape.

Live and Learn!

Well, you still could just make clothes that are appropriate for a young teen. If some user puts them on some old guy genesis figure well, stranger things have happened.

Quote - Well, you still could just make clothes that are appropriate for a young teen. If some user puts them on some old guy genesis figure well, stranger things have happened.

I know, I was messing with that idea this evening.

I only took a very quick look at them out of curiosity as they're not something I'd buy, but from a quick viewing they looked a bit like A3 and H3 to me. Could be the "Thorne Factor" I s'pose?

They are a bit on the toonish side of things. They look more like something by 3DUniverse than actual realistic younger relatives of Victoria & Mike. The upside is that they're Genesis, and thus you can dial things back a bit and get better results. OTOH, they should have been more realistic-looking out of the box.

I agree and although I'm sure this has been said a million time before - IMHO Genesis people have a rather bland amorphous look about them, like a wet bar of soap. If I was a DS user I guess I could easily overlook that for the incredible diversity it provides.

Quote - Hi, I got Julie when she came out and the DSON import to Poser 2012 is horrible. I have not looked at her in a render yet.  I wanted to make some young teen clothing that was more toon like and why I got her but then realized, (don't laugh to hard) that you don't actually make clothing for the Julie charactor, you are just making genesis clothing.

Not sure what I going to do with her yet, I thought she was a new charactor I could make clothing for to sell that was genesis type model and not just a genesis shape.

Live and Learn!

 

The way I understand it.
What ever Morph your making cloths for you need that morph.
to make sure it works.
So if your making cloths for Daz Young Teens Justin and Julie.
Then you would have Justin and Julie morphs to make sure the cloths fit well on there morphs.

If you make cloths for Genesis female and morph her in to V5 super model ,ya might need to tweak the close for V5 super model.

Well, I found a conforming smart prop orthodontic retainer for v4 by Ironman, here in the Rendo store, that I got to fit quite nicely. The glasses that come with it are good too.

I've been experimenting with trying to make them less toonish, mixing with V5, M5 and the face morphs.

Waiting for Zev0's tooth morphs for Genesis product, to see what I can do with that, around making better looking teeth for them.

Getting mixed results trying to autofit different clothing to them. Some items I've had to use Wardrobe Wizard to firstly add its range of fitting morphs in, before doing the autofit in DS4.5.

All the best.

LROG

Quote - On my older system the DSON thing is slow, but here is a render.

All the best.

LROG

I don't know Richard, she kind of looks like a young boy in drag to me.

That's the prob with this Genesis thing! Lol.

I don't do my Pixie style pics with K4's or teens. Pixie tends to wear less and less these days (Flirty - not dirty! Lol).

I'm notr opening up a division as this thread is going along nice and fine, but it is just pain with this DSON thing for me. Others may think different, great, if we all thought the same it would be a boring world.

The one thing I will say for the teen clothes is that at least they have done their homework on it as most of it would work in the real world. For that they get a big thank you.

Keep the discussion going, give good and bad points, renders, problems etc. I'm sure that the DAZ team are watching threads like this.

All the best for 2013!!!!!

LROG

Agree that Genesis figures have a bland look to them.  (Like blowup dolls, one wag put it.)  I think it's a good match for '40s-'50s style renders, when the ideal was a smoother, rounder look.  (DAZ was smart to do all that '50s stuff.)  And I like it for the kids, who should have an oversmoothed look if anyone does.  I would totally get Justin if I could use him without DSON. 

I notice the bundles include the "Paul Hair."  I like it, and am considering buying it, but it's Neftis "Fibermesh" hair.  I like how that stuff looks - a lot like dynamic hair - but like dynamic hair, it can slow Poser down to a crawl.  I can't imagine using it with DSON.

I only have the Desir Hair and it's pretty cool, and doesn't take that much longer to render than transmapped on my system. It's quite complex - composed of 8 parts, each part morph independently, and a micro part (a thinner layer of hair on top of the main hair). Some of these hairs look a bit clumpy/dirty but others look great.