Sorry, I can't remember. DAZ has a new V5 Elite texture out, and I'm trying to recall if the texture mapping is the same for V4 or not.

Thanks

no

Ditto.

Yeah, works the other way but not V5 to V4 I'm afraid.

Laurie

Quote - Yeah, works the other way but not V5 to V4 I'm afraid.

Laurie

Yeah, okay now I recall seeing that somewhere. I'm comparing the texture maps now to see where the difference lies.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

I saw that. I have a few Daz V5 textures-but prefer the V4 textures. That new Elite V5 texture looks pretty good.

Quote - > Quote - Yeah, works the other way but not V5 to V4 I'm afraid.

Laurie

 

Yeah, okay now I recall seeing that somewhere. I'm comparing the texture maps now to see where the difference lies.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Some so called V5 textures actually use V4 mapping. They would never tell you in advance though, would they? After all, it's not about art...

Quote - Some so called V5 textures actually use V4 mapping. They would never tell you in advance though, would they? After all, it's not about art...

Why would they need to? People are going generally complain anyway. You make it for V4 and they complain it's not V5, even though most of the differences are so minor it doesn't make a difference for most people unless vendors are lazy and don't fix the seams because the minor differences between V4 and the genesis V4 UVs; you make it for V5, then they whine they can't use various addons such as wet maps, tattoo, etc because no one made those yet for V5. I think people really should focus on the quality of the texture in conjunction with the morphs of V5s and the fact the value of Genesis is that you DON'T need to use a specific UV for characters, which allows you to use different textures in different ways.

Hope that makes it clearer for you the quandary some vendors are in when they make characters, so art can really take focus.

V5 = DS
V4 = Poser

DSON is the best thing that ever happened to V4 (four)

Most BIG questions usually have SIMPLE answers.

Quote - Hope that makes it clearer for you the quandary some vendors are in when they make characters, so art can really take focus.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

That is an absolute scream!

Quote - > Quote - Hope that makes it clearer for you the quandary some vendors are in when they make characters, so art can really take focus.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

That is an absolute scream!

It is if that's the only response you have when set straight. ;)

Quote - V5 = DS
V4 = Poser

DSON is the best thing that ever happened to V4 (four)

Most BIG questions usually have SIMPLE answers.

How so? I'm not understanding. Both are from the SAME company. DSON is the focus vehicle for the latest generation. V4 is the last generation. Focus is on the latest generation. SM & DAZ are working on getting the latest generation working in Poser; Genesis is driving sales at DAZ. As soon as the sales for Gen4 and gen4-related items goes down to a low level on DAZ's site, gen4 gets vaulted, regardless of how it's sold elsewhere... because it's the numbers of sales on DAZ's books which determines it... 

Now explain how that's a good thing for V4.

Quote -
It is if that's the only response you have when set straight. ;)

You really don't get it, do you?

Quote - How so? I'm not understanding. Both are from the SAME company. DSON is the focus vehicle for the latest generation. V4 is the last generation. Focus is on the latest generation. SM & DAZ are working on getting the latest generation working in Poser; Genesis is driving sales at DAZ. As soon as the sales for Gen4 and gen4-related items goes down to a low level on DAZ's site, gen4 gets vaulted, regardless of how it's sold elsewhere... because it's the numbers of sales on DAZ's books which determines it... 

Now explain how that's a good thing for V4.

Hahahahahaha!

Sales blah blah .

Some people want to do art. Deal with it.

is this gonna turn into a big stink?

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Some so called V5 textures actually use V4 mapping. They would never tell you in advance though, would they? After all, it's not about art...

Why would they need to? People are going generally complain anyway. You make it for V4 and they complain it's not V5, even though most of the differences are so minor it doesn't make a difference for most people unless vendors are lazy and don't fix the seams because the minor differences between V4 and the genesis V4 UVs; you make it for V5, then they whine they can't use various addons such as wet maps, tattoo, etc because no one made those yet for V5. I think people really should focus on the quality of the texture in conjunction with the morphs of V5s and the fact the value of Genesis is that you DON'T need to use a specific UV for characters, which allows you to use different textures in different ways.

Hope that makes it clearer for you the quandary some vendors are in when they make characters, so art can really take focus.

 

great attitude for someone who wants to SELL his products............................

For Genesis / V5 to become popular in Poser?

SIMPLE : Give us an object file, a texture and a cr2.

But first do a clean up ; talking toe, or talking fingertip figures are not giving a good impression.

i hope they don't break the poser software to make genesis work.

what was sm saying last year?  did they give up on their own figures?

i use genesis to join in a thread render game, but i wouldn't use it in my work. v5 is creepy looking.

@ MLP

I have been praying for the same thing :

DO NOT break Poser to get Miss Gray Blubber to work.
She is not THAT good at all.

If it were all actually about art...

Then a V5 texture that used V4 mapping would say so, so an artist that wanted to use V4 (for whatever reason) could do so

This Poserverse, with its lots and lots of free and reasonably priced resources, is, in general, not about art. It's about making you spend.

Talking generally here -

For me this is eternally the problem with a competitive market driven economy - the end-user is always at the mercy of the competing producers and the compromises they make to get that momentary edge in the marketplace. Not that I'm totally anti-market or anything - those compromises give a majority (and it must be a majority) what they think they need (or are sold via marketing), or at least just enough to satisfy parting with their money, for the system to continue. But for a significant minority there are deficiencies.

In the specific case of Poser & DS, the developers of the software in which this stuff works have been in a symbiotic relationship with each other for a long time, but have gradually been drifting apart & pulling together again. This is where the compromises keep occurring IMO, and although great improvements have come along with both apps, I can't help wondering how much more could have been achieved had they gone their seperate ways before now. The fear is I guess that they may both have failed and gone under. 3rd party developers have to work with the limitations they're presented with by the major companies, so their compromises have a further knock-on effect for the end-user.

Is there a better system out there? I'll let others ponder that one at length. Seems to me the only way to get what you really want or need is to invest serious money up-front to have something custom-made. Since for most users Poser or DS 3d offers what they want or need, that investment isn't justified.

Perhaps there might be room for a crowd-funded project or two for that significant minority looking for something different, if enough people could decide on what they really wanted and had enough faith in a developer to deliver. We tend to think this is how things work when we support a product by buying it, but in many cases the same compromises have been made to satisfy too many desires. Developers & content creators need paying, so perhaps this might be an option. At the very least it might be an interesting experiment if enough people threw in a few dollars.

I think you're right, Carodan. But I don't have much faith that crowd funding in the Poser market would generally work, as the impression I get is that the minority that is so vocal about wanting what most users would think of as esoteric improvements -- that minority also seems to be the most proud of their "if I want it, I make it" attitude. They are not, I'd say, (or they are no longer) in the habit of spending much money. In fact, outright disdain for those who buy content seems to be more the rule. It's not an environment in which new and out of the ordinary projects have much hope of being funded.

V5 UV is Not V4 UV. It is different and does not stretch as Much as V4 UV when the legs are bent or on other areas. Some character products are for V5 but use V4 UV. This set is V5 UV. You can convert V5 textures to V4 using Daz's map transfer tool, but the you need to use Daz:) You can even convert V5 Uv's to V3, whatever you want.

Quote - I think you're right, Carodan. But I don't have much faith that crowd funding in the Poser market would generally work, as the impression I get is that the minority that is so vocal about wanting what most users would think of as esoteric improvements -- that minority also seems to be the most proud of their "if I want it, I make it" attitude. They are not, I'd say, (or they are no longer) in the habit of spending much money. In fact, outright disdain for those who buy content seems to be more the rule. It's not an environment in which new and out of the ordinary projects have much hope of being funded.

Yep, never gonna work and will never happen. Also everybody who funded will want their say and it will turn to chaos and end of the day nothing will get done.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Some so called V5 textures actually use V4 mapping. They would never tell you in advance though, would they? After all, it's not about art...

Why would they need to? People are going generally complain anyway. You make it for V4 and they complain it's not V5, even though most of the differences are so minor it doesn't make a difference for most people unless vendors are lazy and don't fix the seams because the minor differences between V4 and the genesis V4 UVs; you make it for V5, then they whine they can't use various addons such as wet maps, tattoo, etc because no one made those yet for V5. I think people really should focus on the quality of the texture in conjunction with the morphs of V5s and the fact the value of Genesis is that you DON'T need to use a specific UV for characters, which allows you to use different textures in different ways.

Hope that makes it clearer for you the quandary some vendors are in when they make characters, so art can really take focus.

 

great attitude for someone who wants to SELL his products............................

I do this for fun. And I tell it like it is, because that's how it is.  And I remember when you wanted to sell too and emailed me about stuff, so let's not be all bitter everytime you post. ;)

pinning my hopes on a certain panda  :)

Well, I'm done....

Always has to turn into a pissing match. Shame.

Laurie

Quote - ... You can convert V5 textures to V4 using Daz's map transfer tool, but the you need to use Daz:) You can even convert V5 Uv's to V3, whatever you want.

I didn't know that; that's pretty cool.  I'll need to add it to my list of things to play with when I have time...

.

Quote - Of course V4 can take V5 maps.  A litte postwork and Bob's your uncle...

That looks pretty close. I compared texture map templates yesterday, and they looked pretty close. Thanks for the picture.

Also, you can use DS to convert Gen5 maps to Gen4, as long as you have the required figure for Genesis. Since I don't really plan to use Genesis, I've done that with the M5 elite textures--the conversion looks quite nice on M4. I don't have V5, but I'm sure hers would look good as well. The kicker is that you actually have to buy M5/V5 first...

Quote - Talking generally here -

For me this is eternally the problem with a competitive market driven economy - the end-user is always at the mercy of the competing producers and the compromises they make to get that momentary edge in the marketplace. Not that I'm totally anti-market or anything - those compromises give a majority (and it must be a majority) what they think they need (or are sold via marketing), or at least just enough to satisfy parting with their money, for the system to continue. But for a significant minority there are deficiencies.

In the specific case of Poser & DS, the developers of the software in which this stuff works have been in a symbiotic relationship with each other for a long time, but have gradually been drifting apart & pulling together again. This is where the compromises keep occurring IMO, and although great improvements have come along with both apps, I can't help wondering how much more could have been achieved had they gone their seperate ways before now. The fear is I guess that they may both have failed and gone under. 3rd party developers have to work with the limitations they're presented with by the major companies, so their compromises have a further knock-on effect for the end-user.

Is there a better system out there? I'll let others ponder that one at length. Seems to me the only way to get what you really want or need is to invest serious money up-front to have something custom-made. Since for most users Poser or DS 3d offers what they want or need, that investment isn't justified.

Perhaps there might be room for a crowd-funded project or two for that significant minority looking for something different, if enough people could decide on what they really wanted and had enough faith in a developer to deliver. We tend to think this is how things work when we support a product by buying it, but in many cases the same compromises have been made to satisfy too many desires. Developers & content creators need paying, so perhaps this might be an option. At the very least it might be an interesting experiment if enough people threw in a few dollars.

One of the most complete translations on what is happenning between the 2 markets in months....things are exactly like this...

“If enough people could decide on what they really wanted …”

And therein lies the rub ÷) Take the entire user base and find those who find the status quo so deficient they are willing to spend up front of the hope of something better. Factor in the knowledge that the something better, per historia, will be almost certainly remain niche item, with at best meager support. Now select the number who will actually be able to agree on what they want, and you can probably hold the shareholder’s meeting in a bathroom room stall at LAX. Remember to get an ironclad contract because any minor disagreement will result in somebody wanting to pull up their pants and go home, taking their money with them.

I think that one problem is the they very people who have the more esoteric desires may be more ‘enthusiastic’ about their particular wants – I’ll spare the analogies to various fetishes. I know very little about UV Mapping, rigging etc., but I’m sure those who want it done differently have strong (and differing) opinions on how it should be done. True, some can and do roll their own, but again, you’re looking at a yet another subset; those who know/care enough to want something different but can’t/won’t do it themselves.

You can solicit input, but I think that at some point, someone has to play dictator decide what to actually create. Then, they can see how many people will actually invest in it. At that point, you’re pretty much doing what companies do already – with more or less emphasis on the market research aspect. I would be interested in seeing the mechanics of how such a project would work, e.g. how much money, the feature decision making process, handling of funds etc.
Scientists claim to have gone below absolute zero so many things are possible. The rules of the Poser universe tend to be more rigid than those of the real universe though so I have to remain skeptical.

Quote -

You can solicit input, but I think that at some point, someone has to play dictator decide what to actually create. Then, they can see how many people will actually invest in it. At that point, you’re pretty much doing what companies do already – with more or less emphasis on the market research aspect. I would be interested in seeing the mechanics of how such a project would work, e.g. how much money, the feature decision making process, handling of funds etc.
 

This is pretty much how (given my admittedly limited understanding) crowd-funded projects work. The developer is still having to make a reasonably structured pitch to a potential audience and the project is either supported or not - at the ideas stage. The difference from existing models as i understand it is that at least some of the damaging politics involved in putting a product to market can be lessened if not avoided. There's less of a possibility that a smaller group of individuals with good ideas and demontratable skills are going to fall under the controlling shadow of big company politics. Risk is potentially lessened to the developer in terms of over-investment of time in a project that no-one will end up buying. Its not at all a 'project-by-comitee' model. Thats not to say there isnt room for perhaps more openness to ideas from end users than we currently have.

Its never going to be a perfect system however. Trust is always an issue, as it is with big businesses with all the baggage they bring along in terms of managing projects, appropriation of funds etc. One thing I quite like about the crowd-funded model however is the idea that artists/creators who are passionate as well as knowledgeable about their ideas can lay their cards on the table and potentially gain real support to actually action them. Whether they get that support is at least in part down to how well they can convince a potential audience that they have something to offer above and beyond whats already out there.

Consider for a moment that bb was proposing a project to develop a Poser plugin for creating his interior room geometries, complete with windows and doors and furniture etc, with all the versatility that he's already demonstrated in many threads in this forum. Very possibly he wouldnt  get the support from a major company to develop that idea - perhaps no-one from that company has seen his work, or sees the potential in that idea, or agrees with his approach to making it. Maybe they dont like how much he wants to charge to make it - making it just too risky for their business model. That's now one small set of individuals from one company that have put a stop to a potentially great idea that could be of great use to a lot of people, because they didnt 'get it'. Were that a crowd funded project a much larger group of individuals get a chance to get behind bb and source the funding to make it happen, perhaps even with some kind of perk (beyond getting the product itself) depending on how much money they pledge or raise. bb has built himself a solid reputation here and on other boards (whether you 'like' him or not you cant deny his input to Poser in terms of materials but also debate in general). Although other reps from the Poser dev team have been visible, it just doesnt compare to bbs. I know I'd be helping to fund him on that project, and I'm much surer he'd deliver something cool.

My feeling is that when people feel personally invested in making things happen the results can often be far better than remaining in the cold showroom of the current marketplace structure. I find the crowd funding model a refreshing counter to the typical system of putting projects to market and there have been a number of campaigns I've supported that I know would'nt have happened in th same way or been anywhere near as successful had they been done in the tratitional way.