The only clouds I'm using are the ones the I do render or the ones I'm looking at outside...... but no cloud drive for me, that's a technology I will stay clear off.

Quote - I think cloud computing is a bad idea. I hope and pray it does not catch on. Like Netherworks says, a few sevices are ok. As secondary backup for content or or install files is fine. Notice I said secondary. I still want a back up here at my house. But it's nice to have an extra copy off-site in case of fire or something. But actual programs run off the web? No way. Aside from sometimes not being able to get on line there is the matter of being subject to a companies whims. A company decides it doesn't want to support version x anymore, I have to switch to version xx if I want to keep using that software(and most likely pay for it too). But what if I don't like version xx? My only choices are learn to like it or no longer be able to use my word processor, or graphics editor or whatever. I know I could probably switch to another company, but it seems so much software saves its file under a format that is unreadable by anyone else. Next the company in its infinite wisdom (pronounced greed) will decide they are providing continual updates and tons of bandwidth, we need to provide continual funds in the guise of monthly (or annually) subscribtions and they will automatically provide us with the newest version regaurdless of if we want it or not. Finally the company will go bankrupt and either be bought out by someone who doesn't want to support the software or the company with cease to exist and we will be with out the program or a way to read all our files created with it.

As most companies like to have hard copies of things they can inventory and take stock of, I suspect that Cloud computing is just a fad, not a trend. I predict it will go the way of the paperless office.

I do like that my MP3 Music purchases at Amazon are on the cloud for retrieval/listening purposes.  To me, THAT makes sense.  It's not sensitive information stored.  It IS convenient in that case.  Your drive crashes, you can re-download your music or whatnot.

I personally think the desktop computer will come full circle.  In the 80s and 90s, the PC was the geek's toy.  Around the time that Windows ME (remember that mess?) was coming out, everyone was getting a PC.  But people were (are) only using it to get emails and do the social thing.  That will be replaced with the tablet/phone and in the not-so-distant future, desktop PCs will be geek toys again.  I don't think it will vanish.

I'm surprised that the mini-PCs haven't done so well.  You know the ones with the really small PC towers?  I am guessing that there's so little room to change out components or expand them.

Everything seems to be the same size it was in '95... Mid to Full PC Towers, ATX boards, CPUs with big ass fans on them, oversized video cards.  I just built a new PC a month ago (i7-3770 3.4 GHz, nice ASUS board, Cooler Master case and fans) and it had been a while since I built one.  I was surprised how little the process changed :D

Yeah, RedPhantom, its being too much at the company's whim and decisions that bothers me on the cloud app/OS front.  Guess that this does kind-of go back to Poser and why I like it.  It's user friendly enough on the surface but you can get in there (with a text-editor, no less) and really geek around with it - they are exposing more options all the time and there is always Python extend/enhance the experience.

Quote - As most companies like to have hard copies of things they can inventory and take stock of, I suspect that Cloud computing is just a fad, not a trend. I predict it will go the way of the paperless office.

Speaking as someone who works in an office with proprietory information...no way in hell the vast majority of businesses (or government bureacracies) would be willing to offload confidential information on to a web-based service. I wouldn't do it with the files I deal with, so could you imagine what a defense ministry or a security service would think of the idea?

Agent: "This is the Top Secret Eyes Only intelligence report for the President's meeting with the Chinese ambassador."

Supervisor: "How did you write this up?"

Agent: "Using the new word processor, why?"

Foreign Intelligence Agencies: "I love the cloud. Thank you! Buwahahaha!"

LOL!

Yeah, I think the real target is probably individuals and maybe small businesses.  It offers a path of least resistance.  Buring disks or backing up on a portable is too much work for the average person.  It requires attention and reasoning.  Though there ARE software solutions that aren't hard.  Yes, you have to spend time setting them up (which Joe Schmo isn't going to do... it's less time looking at pictures of cats on FB).  I've been using "Cobian Backup" for some time now and love it.  I back up to a flash drive daily, only overwrite changed files and I do monthly disk backups.  Many I dump my script projects and various user settings.

Cobian is free if anyone is interested: http://www.cobiansoft.com/index.htm

Quote - I'm afraid those of us who actually know what they're doing with a computer will ultimately have to dance to the tune of the clueless. I think Windows 8 proves that - "We'll do everything for you cause you don't have the first clue anyway". Most computer users want their computer to run like their television...no maintenence, no adjusting settings, no clue how it functions. I spent years screwing up my computer so that I could learn how to fix it and I don't wanna give up that control just because of users that don't care to learn....lol.

Laurie

I won't touch 8. If I wanted a Mac, I would buy a Mac. Nothing against Mac; I just don't happen to care for them.

If Poser X is as amazing a leap forward as PP2012, on the other hand...  

Beware of cloud computing:

10 years from now you are out interviewing for a job, considering running for public office, some sort of background check is occurring and the question is....."Can you explain these 9,865,231 rendered images we found in your cloud storage of VNITWAS?" :blink:

Yeah, if they keep pushing? We will have to ask the cloud if we can go to the toilet. 

The cloud knows more about us then our family.

And if the cloud knows?
China knows.

And if China knows?
Your BOSS knows.

Privacy??? my ****
The cloud has more holes then there are in open deep dark space.
Why do you think it rains so much.....

I prefer my warm home.

Quote - Beware of cloud computing:

10 years from now you are out interviewing for a job, considering running for public office, some sort of background check is occurring and the question is....."Can you explain these 9,865,231 rendered images we found in your cloud storage of VNITWAS?" :blink:

LMAO :)

Although... hmmm... ten years from now that'll probably qualify you for public office.

Probably would now...

They don't let you in unless they can get something on you, to pull out the closet if they need to, at a later date... (disclaimer) apparently... so I heard... or dreamt, or saw in a film or something ;)

Well what they want to do with smart devices in the future (phones, tablets) is have them constantly transmitting information.  So you'll walk past a shopping window and it will know your shopping habits, general info and so on.  Heck they might even be the thickness of a credit card at that point.

I can imagine going into a restaurant and from your phone the waiter says "Hello Joseph, welcome back.  I see you tried the eggplant last week and enjoyed it.  Would you like the eggplant again tonight?"

I think it will be cool for about a week then get REALLY ANNOYING.

It's headed that way Joseph....but just wait until they get the tech figured out that when you open the new products page here on Rendo and it scans your prior purchases and automatically loads you cart with like items from the new products page, checks you out and automatically downloads-installs and refreshes your poser library and then loads the items into the scene you are working on whether you wanted them in that scene or not...:biggrin:

they will have implanted smart RFID tags in shoppers by then.  having to hold a padd in one's hand will have become inconvenient.  is there any RFID testing at foxconn yet?  I reckon they'll have to test it somewhere. :crying:

Quote - they will have implanted smart RFID tags in shoppers by then.  having to hold a padd in one's hand will have become inconvenient.  is there any RFID testing at foxconn yet?  I reckon they'll have to test it somewhere. :crying:

They can try to do something like that to me. LOL. They might get away with their lives if they're lucky ;).

Laurie

I guess I could forsake my iMac Desktop...

...but I'd need a 27 inch, quad core iPad, with plenty RAM and a terrabyte or so of local storage, on a desktop stand, with a keyboard, mouse and graphics tablet to replace it ;)

I don't see RFID implants being necessary. Not for preference tracking.

Facial recognition is getting pretty powerful... and I doubt that remote neural impulse scanning is too far off (so soon it won't be necessary to wear a headset / electrodes for that).

Quote - It's headed that way Joseph....but just wait until they get the tech figured out that when you open the new products page here on Rendo and it scans your prior purchases and automatically loads you cart with like items from the new products page, checks you out and automatically downloads-installs and refreshes your poser library and then loads the items into the scene you are working on whether you wanted them in that scene or not...:biggrin:

I suspect this might be up and running already.

Although I think it uses a form of hypnosis / social-engineering, rather than purely HTML, PHP and JavaScript coding... ;)

As long as they get a nural interface so I can load my character and pose her just by thinking. And I'm sure I have this dress somewhere, oh there it is. Or oh no I don't have that dress, open (insert favorite modeling app here) and think make this dress. And Presto it's done. Then maybe I could live with all the rest of the stuff because then I'd be so imersed in my posering I wouldn't care what happened in the rest of the world.

Do you think they'll have it ready for the next release?

Yes, found it.
The next release will be a Poser release.

Where you can load something called poly's in some wireframe structure thing, and pose with some mouseclicks, and render pixel, by pixel, by pixel.
From a end user controllable upper left corner to a end user controllable lower right corner.
Amazing hé ?
:-)

BB said Poser X??

Only 2 more versions to go then?
Poser Y ?
Poser Z ?

By then the Internet will collapse, and the cloud will drop on our faces.
We will all be as flat-flat-flat , as the ground plane is.

But untill then???
We wil have had, Poser X,Y,Z to morph in.
Hope the mesh is not too dense, and there is room for some serious X,Y,Z work :-)
;-)

I feel a rant coming on. 

I've been away for quite a while, frustrated by Poser and to stubborn to learn Daz Studio.

The problem?  I really don't know, but I suspect it lies in the fragmentation of all the little pieces of code we use to make a Poser scene happen, and really shine, and bring the fun.

With the introduction of Clo3d, it quickly became clear to me that Poser is very, very, very behind-the-times.  Clo3d gives real-time clothing dynamics and collisions; Poser makes me wait for 20 minutes with worse results.

Poser is Lich-Ware, to coin a term.  We have features thrown at the decrepit foundation of software first made, I don't know, 15 years ago?

We have enough cpu and enough memory and storage these days we should have something like Clo3d built right into the program.  We should have a hair module that produces stunning results with real time dynamics like clo3d.  We should have morphing based on source photos for any figure, and our figures should probably behave like Genesis and pose with the ease of PoseMagic. 

I'm just scratching the surface of what we should have by now.

Now I know some blowhard is going to come along and go "Whoa, WTB, just...whoa...you want a "Make Art" button?  You want a 3000 dollar production line ready product?"

Listen, Blowhard, I'm just telling you what's already out there.  It's just not collected into one piece of software.  It seems to me that the Poser team is not saying "Hey, let's completely rethink this hair room piece of crap"  but rather "Okay, on to the hair room, how can we tweak this so that it seems like we've worked on it without adding any actual functionality?"

I understand the first approach takes time, money and resources.  But the second approach literally makes me feel that I'm being treated with contempt and patronization.

That is why hostility towards the software and the experience start to creep in.

When I turn on the program I quickly recall my frustrations, how there's a glass ceiling of what can be done with it and how I know there's so much better out there, just not for exactly what we want to do. 

Quote - Well what they want to do with smart devices in the future (phones, tablets) is have them constantly transmitting information.  So you'll walk past a shopping window and it will know your shopping habits, general info and so on.  Heck they might even be the thickness of a credit card at that point.

I can imagine going into a restaurant and from your phone the waiter says "Hello Joseph, welcome back.  I see you tried the eggplant last week and enjoyed it.  Would you like the eggplant again tonight?"

I think it will be cool for about a week then get REALLY ANNOYING.

Ever been to the Citadel in Mass Effect 2? [spoiler]Advertisement: "Shepard, you've been dead recently. Don't you want an Asari burial shroud?" Advertisement: "Shepard, you made [0] credits last year. Don't you think you deserve a raise?"[/spoiler] :P  

Quote - So you'll walk past a shopping window and it will know your shopping habits, general info and so on. 

You think there will still be shops, with windows, to walk past? Optimistic, aren't you (and i can't decide between a smile smiley or a sad smiley here).

Quote - Y

BB said Poser X??

Only 2 more versions to go then?
Poser Y ?
Poser Z ?

roman numerals. they've only been around a couple of thousand years.. you may have heard of them at some point? you know how X=10, IX=9 etc.

Quote - > Quote - So you'll walk past a shopping window and it will know your shopping habits, general info and so on. 

You think there will still be shops, with windows, to walk past? Optimistic, aren't you (and i can't decide between a smile smiley or a sad smiley here).

Brick and mortar will exist for a few things at least.  Groceries (non-dry goods), stuff you want to try out before you buy (shoes - debatable there, cars, etc.).  Brick and mortar stores have lost my dollar many times already.  I go into to shop, won't settle for something I don't want and wind up going to amazon or somesuch to get it.  I've even had coffee shipped because I was fed up with the lack of choices :D

Attached Link: Poser blog with video

I can't disagree with most of what you say - yes, the dynamics as it currently exists definitely needs a complete overhaul. Hair too - carodan has got some amazing results but most comments I've seen have been around it's user-unfriendliness. 

If by 'behave like Genesis' you mean improved bending, then AntoniaWM is the best example IMHO of what can be done with Poser's weight-mapping, plus there's V4WM and MichelleWM. If you mean sub-d then that is something Poser can't do (except with snarlygribbly's script).

I bought PoseMagic back in 2010, and found it a useful product. There are though a number of posing dials in the Body for Alyson2 and Ryan2, and I understand it is possible to create new dials using Dependant Parameters - so adding the same kind of functionality, and going beyond just posing, can be done by users.

But what I really I have to respond to is this -

"It seems to me that the Poser team is not saying "Hey, let's completely rethink this hair room piece of crap"  but rather "Okay, on to the hair room, how can we tweak this so that it seems like we've worked on it without adding any actual functionality?"

Take a look at the link above, scroll to no.5 and watch the (very hokey) video - that's the Poser dev team. Not a lot of people, but a significant number have been with Poser for years, and I know from experience (being on the beta program) that they do care about the software.

Being a fairly small team there is obviously only so much they can do and it will be a case of prioritising. They also have to maintain backwards-compatibility (now, personally I wouldn't be too upset if they sacrificed that for new functionality, but that will be a very minority view - could you imagine the reaction from the Poser community if they announced new features but that all previously-purchased content was now unusable? ouch!). I have seen posts by various members of the Poser team both here and at RDNA (plus ThinkCooper and TNPorter moderate the Official P9/PP2012 Forum at RDNA), and Steve Cooper has said that he does keep an eye on the forums.

What I'm trying to say (in a very convoluted way) is that while I would agree that Poser has some real limitations and can at times be very frustrating, and while I know you're not making a blanket statement, I would have to disagree with the notion that the people who make it either don't know or don't care about the things that need improvement.

From my perspective as a user, the step from PP2010 to PP2012 gave me more accurate lighting, true SSS, improved Morph Brush, GoZ and (more indirectly given that I've not learned how to rig figures myself) better bending. The Add-On Framework which was developed by SM in collaboration with Pret-A-3d has already given rise to DSON and the Octane for Poser plug-in, and Pret-A-3d should be releasing Reality 3 in March (which will provide the bridge to Luxrender), so that is also a significant addition. Personally I reckon the last version was a good step forward. Unfortunately being under a legally-binding Non-Disclosure Agreement with SM, like all the other beta testers, means I can't say anything about Poser X - Coop collects scalps, y'know. Just colour me excited.

PS. SM's blog of 15th Jan here - http://blog.smithmicro.com/tag/poser/ - is asking for suggestions for names, for a male and female, I can't think why … but there aren't many so far, anyone got any ideas?

Quote - PS. SM's blog of 15th Jan here - http://blog.smithmicro.com/tag/poser/ - is asking for suggestions for names, for a male and female, I can't think why … but there aren't many so far, anyone got any ideas?

Yeah coming up with a name is hard, I find...

Trying to come up with a good boy's name myself (along with the wife) at the moment... ideally before the end of March ;)

Quote - .... Unfortunately being under a legally-binding Non-Disclosure Agreement with SM, like all the other beta testers, means I can't say anything about Poser X - Coop collects scalps, y'know. Just colour me excited.

PS. SM's blog of 15th Jan here - http://blog.smithmicro.com/tag/poser/ - is asking for suggestions for names, for a male and female, I can't think why … but there aren't many so far, anyone got any ideas?

Oh no, now I'm excited too! :woot:

much of what you said sounds positive to a sane person, but to me, this is the problem...things glommed on to other things and this comes from this and that comes from there and if you take your ear off the ground you will miss this update/module/python script/workaround/future thing/patch/hack that does what it should've done last release.  Not only do we have to find out about a different renderer, but we need to find out about the bridge to that renderer, arg. 

As for backwards compatibility, with the right focus on developments nobody would want to look backwards.

I've lost all my stuff no less than four times over the years.  Once you confront the horror and process it, it's kind of nice to have a fresh start.

...To add:

The fact that they're developing new figures is not encouraging.  They never seem to get them right, so why waste the time?

I'm sorry if that's harsh to a small group of people who develop the product, but each release has figures that look less human than the last. 

That said:  Barney and Betty  (kudos to whomever gets the reference without resorting to search)

Quote - > Quote - PS. SM's blog of 15th Jan here - http://blog.smithmicro.com/tag/poser/ - is asking for suggestions for names, for a male and female, I can't think why … but there aren't many so far, anyone got any ideas?

Yeah coming up with a name is hard, I find...

Trying to come up with a good boy's name myself (along with the wife) at the moment... ideally before the end of March ;)

Easy Peasy

The male's name should either be Larry or Cooper.

This should be the 10th release of Poser (excluding the original Poser Pro pak I think it was called which was before I stumbled onto this addicition.). A little celebratory humor is in order and acknowledgement to boot. :thumbupboth:

I quite like the Hair Room and the Cloth Room. I just think they need to be a little less flaky, have a few new features, and the sims need to be sped up a bit. But they make some pretty decent results if you get the hang of them.

Does that make me a bit strange?

(Betty & Barney Rubble? No. That would be Thoughtcrime. Rather Winston and Julia, that would be doubleplusgood.)

I love dynamic cloth too. It would be fantastic if the Cloth Room had some work done to it in version x.

Quote - I quite like the Hair Room and the Cloth Room. I just think they need to be a little less flaky, have a few new features, and the sims need to be sped up a bit. But they make some pretty decent results if you get the hang of them.

Does that make me a bit strange?

(Betty & Barney Rubble? No. That would be Thoughtcrime. Rather Winston and Julia, that would be doubleplusgood.)

I totally forgot that Betty and Barney were also Flinstone characters.  That wasn't what I was going for lol

The Cloth Room sims being able to run as a background task would be a major benefit I think?

Likewise Wardrobe Wizard (I know, that's a plug-in, so I'm talking about such capability in the plug-in API... which may already be there?)

Those things being background processes might be functionally problematic though I guess.

They're operating on scene actors...

...maybe just more multi-threading is needed to speed the process up?

Overall I think both hair and cloth room probably just need some more out-the-box presets...

...e.g. select a preset, with a nice user friendly description, that a hair dresser, or a fashion designer might understand... click the "make hair" / "make cloth" button.

I don't expect either would represent an overhaul. Just a more user-friendly layer, pre-loaded with expert heuristics, as a new front end to what's there?

Quote -
I totally forgot that Betty and Barney were also Flinstone characters.  That wasn't what I was going for lol

You mean the abductees then, not the Flintstones? LOL.

I admit, I Googled the abductees... not sure I've heard of that pair before...

I think most would have big problems with losing backwards compatibility as they have hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in content and can't afford to replace it all. It would be genesis all over again. That being said. If the only thing we lose it the few strand based hair we already have it might be worth the sacrifice. I know I'd remake my hair if it meant the room was not easy to use and the draping was reliable.

They were the original abductees (Unless you count Enoch)

Presets aren't going to solve the Hair/Cloth rooms.  If it were a matter of tweaking parameters we'd already be seeing fantastic results.

Having seen what Clo3d can do, I find the hair and cloth rooms totally unacceptable. 

(Yeah, I realize clo3d doesn't do hair, but you can imagine fairly easily how it very well could.)

Names for the new humans... I'm gonna go with Amy and Rory. :D  WHO can guess where those names are from? :P

Well I don't see why old things would have to be scrapped, there could just be an alternative.  Weight-Mapping, for example, doesn't scrap spherical joint rigging.  There's no reason to WM most of a machine-type figure or something with rigid parts.

I'm still prepared (unfortunately) to see the same old frustrating material room with those goofy nodes that no one understands. Except there will be more of them. yay.

Laurie

Quote - Names for the new humans... I'm gonna go with Amy and Rory. :D  WHO can guess where those names are from? :P

I don't know that I could get Steve to go for Rory. lol. He was a bit of weird character anyway...I mean, wasn't he a robot after he died? So....how'd they have a kid? Or maybe I missed an episode....

...anyway, as a fan myself, I'd welcome a Pond or two but sadly, it's not my call.

:D

Okay, how about Darren and Samantha?  A bewitching combination, perhaps?

Velma & Shaggy?

=D

The plastic / robot state got rewritten, with the rest of the Universe, Teyon ;)

This is why it's important to keep backups.

You don't want to get stuck, reincarnated as a plastic Roman...

On that theme,

Romulus and Remus?

Lol...

Pauline and Arthur? ;)

I've submitted Azarja and Nadjela to them.

BUT.... instead of using resource on yet another figure that no one will ever use, unless they release them with a large number of vendors backing them up and quite a lot of content from the start, I'd rather see them using those resources on Poser X itself. Oh, and while I'm on it, make sure X doesn't depend on outside sources anymore. With Adobe loosing ground more and more I hate applications that depend on flash or air to function. If Poser wants to be around in the future and even expand to perhaps tablets and such, Adobe dependancy has to go..... it's really slowly becoming something of the past. As others have said, time to look ahead!

Quote - The plastic / robot state got rewritten, with the rest of the Universe, Teyon ;)

This is why it's important to keep backups.

You don't want to get stuck, reincarnated as a plastic Roman...

On that theme,

Romulus and Remus?

Lol...

Ah! See...you miss one episode and the whole universe rewrites itself. 

Also...who said anything about Poser? We make other software too ya know and the characters that come with those. :) Just throwin' that out there.

Yeah, like some completely missed my X,Y,Z, joke. :-)

Quote - Also...who said anything about Poser? We make other software too ya know and the characters that come with those. :) Just throwin' that out there.

Yeah... must try and spend some quality time soon with my copy of Manga Studio ;)

Quote - :D

Okay, how about Darren and Samantha?  A bewitching combination, perhaps?

That's a fun one. Hehehe.

Someone would have to give Samantha a nose wiggle morph too. :3

Quote - > Quote - Also...who said anything about Poser? We make other software too ya know and the characters that come with those. :) Just throwin' that out there.

Yeah... must try and spend some quality time soon with my copy of Manga Studio ;)

Yup. Oh...if you want to hear my totally nerdy voice, check out the preview videos for Manga Studio's features on the manga studio site. lol.

Anyway, I shall vacate this thread, as I don't wish to derail it anymore than I have. Continue with your speculation of what our team is or isn't doing. :-D

I'm more curious as to more what the "what" will be and not the "when".  What is going to be the main area of improvement in the new poser?

Caustics?

Particle effects?

Modeler built in?

Cloth room?

Less bloody lag in the mat room?

Better Gene compatibality (maybe without DSON)?

Automatic breast upsizer?

One click nude vicky with a sword in a temple?