Can anyone help/explain this for me please?

I've had this happen a few times before and now I've just bought Morphing Clothes and seeing a lot more of it....

The preview in PP2012 looks fine, no clothing pokethrough, everything fitting perfectly. The Firefly render though has pokethrough that's just not there in the preview. I've seen this before in a few small areas, but using Morphing Clothes it's dire, half the clothing has disappeared into the body!

Checked the same render using Reality and the Lux Render version is fine with no pokethrough at all. So it's only Firefly. Can anyone tell me what's happening and how I can fix it? I've tried searching forums etc. but can only find suggestions about Raytracing or high displacement values causing apparent pokethrough and that doesn't seem to be the problem here.

Added (too late to edit post)...

Just tested by exporting a heavily morphed M4 wearing Morphing Clothed clothes to Vue and there's no pokethrough in the Vue render either. It's just Firefly.

I have never had the problem where I have lost half of a particular peice of clothing but I have had times when pokethrough has appeared in a render that was not there in the preview.   It seems more common with some items of clothing but I have not been able to pin it down. What I have noticed is that, on occasions, the slightest change in the scene and the pokethrough disappears.  Moving the camera a fraction or even changing the camera but with the same point of view can rectify the problem.  

Interestingly I seem to get it less with the latest release of Poser and as, up until recently, I had never used anything but Firefly I did not know that it was Firefly specific.    Now I am playing with Luxrender I will have to try and find one of my scenes that dispayed it and try again.

As to what causes it I do not have a clue unfortunatley.

I have noticed pokethrough which is not visible in preview after rendering too. I have fixed it before by lowering the crease angle but I would be interested in hearing of any better solutions.

Check for any displacement mapping. Displacement effects will not show in preview but will be visible in the final render. A quick fix is to apply a very small displacement to the clothing effectively giving it a looser fit.

The pokethrough I've experienced have been with things that haven't had a displacement map.

I haven't created a displacement map to see if it fixes it but I'll give that a try.

Just plug a gray color node into the displacement socket and play around with the values. You should not need much.

Quote - The pokethrough I've experienced have been with things that haven't had a displacement map.

I haven't created a displacement map to see if it fixes it but I'll give that a try.

I have the same experience, no displacement but I never thought of adding it as a fix.  Great idea, must give it a go.

Quote - Check for any displacement mapping. Displacement effects will not show in preview but will be visible in the final render. A quick fix is to apply a very small displacement to the clothing effectively giving it a looser fit.

Ok, didn't think that was the problem to start off with, but just been doing some more testing and it looks like that is the problem after all. The clothing that had the really severe problems has folds etc. done with displacement. The amount of displacement doesn't seem to be making any difference, but the pokethrough is gone if the displacement isn't used in Firefly. So I guess the answer for me is - render in Vue! ;)

Thanks for the help!

When NO poke is visible in preview but DOES poke at render time.

You have to think what is happening at render time.

Preview shows the raw object files. Versus => A render is a calculation.

Firefly adds displacement and adds Smoothing angles when told so by the render engine.

I had poking when I set Smoothing ON.

**Remember:
**
With SubD, the object file SHRINKS.
With Smoothing the object file EXPANDS.

Balance the crease angle between the clothing and the figure to get rid of this kind of poking.
Or render without Smooting enables.  => I do NOT recommend this.

I recommend to render with Smoothing enabled  and adapt the crease angle if required. My default crease angle is set at 180°, the max setting.

Also, PhilC's solution is a very good one to get rid of small poking.
Just add a slight gray in displacement at value 0.1 or 0.2 and render with Smooting and Displacement enabled.

Quote - Just plug a gray color node into the displacement socket and play around with the values. You should not need much.

Great idea, Phil. Thank you. :)

Quote - I have noticed pokethrough which is not visible in preview after rendering too. I have fixed it before by lowering the crease angle but I would be interested in hearing of any better solutions.

I am surprised that works...  Crease angle doesn't change the mesh, it's just a threshold between contours that are rendered sharp and those rendered smooth.

I have noticed very small bits of pokethrough in renders that were not visible in preview and learned that those spots are usually visible in hidden line mode as a vertex with edges appearing to intersect the overlaying mesh.  I just use the morph brush to pull the clothing outward in that area until the underlying vertices don't show.  Try fitting your clothes tight to your figure in your normal preview mode and then switch to hidden line and rotate around your figure.  If you see extra vertices that don't seem to be a part of the mesh, they are part of the underlying mesh and that's where pokethrough will likely appear in your rendered image.

I could see it wasn't anything to do with the mesh as there's no intersection - and if there was, it would be visible in the Vue renders as well. I did see something about displacement being the problem, but I discarded that idea as I hadn't realised until PhilC said it again that the items that were giving me the problems all have large creases in the shoulders etc. that are done with displacement maps and not modelled in. In the Firefly renders all the low parts of the fold are looking pushed back into the figure. With the displacement off the render is fine. It only gives fairly minor pokethrough normally, but using Morphing Clothes makes it a right mess. Adding more displacement isn't going to help with that, unfortunately.

It's an Eon conspiracy! Every time I'm about to try rendering with Poser something happens to make me go back to use Vue instead! :scared: :laugh: