Nice image- and once the elbows are fixed- a great figure-the collapsed straw elbows are a FULL stop for me. Any chance of posting the morph?

Quote - Roxie does look adult, and is easy to easy to morph. The elbows are fixed with PoserMorphLoader and Sculptris.

seachnasaigh:

The links work, and you're right, she does move very well.

And now that my physical copy is here and installed, I get to experiment with her myself....!  

That hexagonal corridor, the rotating lights and the figure's frantic dash to pass each door, I expect to hear, "Argh!  We've got 'movie sign'!!!"

Sincerely,

Bill

Quote -   ...collapsed straw elbows... 

   :tongue2: > Quote -   That hexagonal corridor, the rotating lights and the figure's frantic dash to pass each door, I expect to hear, "**Argh!  We've got 'movie sign'!" **

   :laugh:

The character is great-but the elbow bending issue-she is just not Temple Ready-even if she can pal around with V4-WM! :-)

Quote - Rokket, maybe what you're not liking about the elbows is more a rigging thing, as they were all rigged by the same person. I modeled Miki3/4 so her topology is on me but the topology for the other characters, including Roxie was Darrell, the same guy who rigged her. The topo is fine (and I personally don't have an issue with her elbows) but as he's the guy that rigged Alyson, Alyson2, Miki 3/4 and Roxie, chances are he's done a lot of the same things there. What is it exactly about the elbow you're not digging?

Ah why don't ya just fix the rig ?
The tools are in PP14 n P10 ,right ?

or am I missing something ?

Roxie's forearm bend creases too deeply into the arm. In addition to this, the back of the arm, by the elbow, gradually juts out. Real arms don't do this and any jutting in the back is confined to the elbow.

Roxie's forearm Bend is linked to a list of deformers. I suspect the deformers are weightmap bulge map related, but I'm not certain. One thing is for certain. They aren't JCMs. With a JCM you could go to the back of the arm and sculpt a proper elbow. Perhaps you can't do this with weight map bulge maps.

I wonder why they didn't at least include JCMs for the elbows. Negative effects on conforming clothes? Roxie would certainly be easier to build clothing for than a JCM figure.

Quote -   Ah why don't ya just fix the rig ?
The tools are in PP14 n P10 ,right ? 

     Two reasons that I would prefer if SM fixed Roxie's elbows (as a Service Release update):

• standardisation - content makers can count on every end user having that new elbow shape 
• animation considerations - if Roxie is well rigged, then I only need to keyframe her joints to build a motion sequence.  If I have to also keyframe JCMs, it adds to the work and the file size of an animated pose (since you now have to also save the morph channels)

Huh? ;-) With the dependencies editer pallet you can link your custom JCMs to the rotations. In this case the forearm bend is linked to the JCM. Bend the forearm and the JCM will follow automaticlly. Edit dependencies are obviosly overseen and underrated here. It's essential since P8.

I've never exspected Poser to release killer characters.
Rex and Rox's exceeded my expectations.
I would not exspect for Poser to release a Roxie's elbows fix Service Release.
I'd bet a user will thou.

But with PP14 & my other toy's I'm good.

IMHO, JCM's are NO way to go. If I find one anywhere, I delete it.

Good W-Mapping and Bulge mapping.

Before you W-Map, delete ALL magnets and JCM's.
Then W-Map and Bulge map till there is no requirement for a magnet or JCM any more.
Keep the rigs clean and end user friendly.
And cloth room, setup room, fitting room, and transfer morphs, friendly.

The more stuff you put in a rig the harder to work with, and more error prone it becomes.

Just my opinion.

In my opinion, Morphs are better than W-mapping and Bulge maps. You get a more definitive shape and have more control over the appearance and strength at rotation levels depending on how you set it.

Quote - In my opinion, Morphs are better than W-mapping and Bulge maps. You get a more definitive shape and have more control over the appearance and strength at rotation levels depending on how you set it.

Agreed, especially when you start creating custom shapes other than the default. You will have to correct for any bending issues the new shape creates.

Well I waited 15 Years for Poser to have SubD meshes.
Maybe it wount take Poser another 15 years to have layered meshes.

Sean

Thanks! I wrongly assumed these were obvious points! Obviously, not everyone is a fully qualifed mind reader! :-) For anyone who might take that seriously-I was poking fun at ME,myself, and I! :-) Yes- please- standard fix by SM. STANDARDISATION or with a Z this side of the Great Briny.

Quote - > Quote -   Ah why don't ya just fix the rig ?The tools are in PP14 n P10 ,right ? 

     Two reasons that I would prefer if SM fixed Roxie's elbows (as a Service Release update):

• standardisation - content makers can count on every end user having that new elbow shape 
• animation considerations - if Roxie is well rigged, then I only need to keyframe her joints to build a motion sequence.  If I have to also keyframe JCMs, it adds to the work and the file size of an animated pose (since you now have to also save the morph channels)

• animation considerations - if Roxie is well rigged, then I only need to keyframe her joints to build a motion sequence.  If I have to also keyframe JCMs, it adds to the work and the file size of an animated pose (since you now have to also save the morph channels)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why would you need to keyframe a JCM ?

JCM = Joint-Controlled-Morph. That means the morph is controlled by the joint movement, so for your animation Poser only needs to know the degree of the forearm rotation to apply the ellbow fix JCM automatically.

Takes about 15 seconds to link a fix morph to a joint with the Dependency editor and thus turn it into a JCM.

I don't know why people still have this fantasy that JCMs are hard to make or hard to edit or hard to transfer from a figure to a clothing item.

Quote - - animation considerations - if Roxie is well rigged, then I only need to keyframe her joints to build a motion sequence.  If I have to also keyframe JCMs, it adds to the work and the file size of an animated pose (since you now have to also save the morph channels)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why would you need to keyframe a JCM ?

JCM = Joint-Controlled-Morph. That means the morph is controlled by the joint movement, so for your animation Poser only needs to know the degree of the forearm rotation to apply the ellbow fix JCM automatically.

Takes about 15 seconds to link a fix morph to a joint with the Dependency editor and thus turn it into a JCM.

I don't know why people still have this fantasy that JCMs are hard to make or hard to edit or hard to transfer from a figure to a clothing item.

Cause you have not made us a tutorail showing us how easy it is yet ?

What was the last character Poser released a fix on ?

Alyson and Ryan. We occassionally do content updaters so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Quote - Alyson and Ryan. We occassionally do content updaters so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Well, the eyelash thing is coming, right? So there will have to be an update anyway...

Me, I love the new characters. I keep trawling the marketplace to see if there is stuff for sale for them yet.

I don't see a problem with the eyelash. Just use the "copy morphs from figure" comande from the figure menue and it's done. An updated figure with attached eyelashes would mean a different polycount, which makes all custom made morph targets useless.

++++++++++++++

Just for kicks, I made some new shoulder fix for SP3 and stopped the time.

It took me exactly 10 minutes to:

1. Pose SP3 with her arms down at 75°.

2. Export her mesh using ColorCurvators PML.

3. Hide SP3.

4. Re-import the exported mesh.

5. Sculpt the shoulders to a realistic shape using the MorphBrush.

6. Mirror the sculpt to the other shoulder.

7. Export the sculpted mesh as an object file.

8. Unhide SP3.

9. Let PML create the fix morph by computing the difference between the two mesh objects.

10. Split the chest fix morph in a left and right part.

11. Open the Dependency editor.

12. Select "Start Teaching"

13. Set shoulder bend to "0"

14. Add the three left fix morphs by clicking on them. (Shoulder, Collar and Chest)

15. Set shoulder bend to "75"

16. Set values of the three fix morphs to "1".

17. Select "Stop Teaching"

18. Do the same for the other shoulder.

19. Done.

Time spent from exporting SP3 as an object to "Stop teaching" :

10 minutes.

Time spent with the Dependency editor open:

30 seconds.

Weightmaps are a great help, bulge maps are great help.

But nothing can create a realistic joint as a JCM can.

yup,that's it. Poser has become finally good but many users don't even recognize it.Same here, that is the Poser, I am waiting for at least 10 years.

Quote - The PML plugin allows you to export the arm with a bent forearm, open the obj file in a modeller of you choice, fix the shape as you like it and to reimport it into Poser. You can now use that morph as a JCM by using the "edit dependencies" pallette that has been introduced since Poser 8 ? or something?

The point is that people shouldn't have to export something, fix it then import it back into Poser to get a proper bending elbo. That's an extra step that shouldn't be required.

JoePublic : Nice shoulders.When you bend it in multiple directions how's it bend n look ?

A elbow only bends in one direction.So JCM's work .

A shoulder moves in multiple directions.
Can a shoulder have multiple JCM's ? On a SubD mesh.

A elbow only bends in one direction.So JCM's work .

A shoulder moves in multiple directions.
Can a shoulder have multiple JCM's ? On a SubD mesh."

 Thank You. :-)

Subdivision or not doesn't matter. The JCM get's subdivided like any other morph does.

SP3 was just a "quicky". I weightmapped her legs and abdomen, but her shoulders were "fairly well" rigged so I just fixed the arms down pose with a JCM directly on top of the old rigging.

You can have (multiple) JCMs for any joint axis. ColorCurvator even made a scipt creating a "matrix" to control dozends of (tiny) JCMs to allow perfect control for any possible joint position.

But I usually use weightmaps and bulgemaps to get 95% "there". The figure shown has weightmapped arms/shoulders and very "weak" JCMs to get the desired shape.

For smooth low res meshes with very regular, evenly spaced polygons, that might even be enough as the subdivision will help smoothing the joints.

There is a reason default Genesis is such an indistinct "blob". The more featureless the underlying mesh, the easier it is to rig.

For highly sculpted high res meshes like SP3, I'll add a few JCMs at critical joints. The better the previous rigging, the less/weaker JCMs are needed.

I'm happy with the shoulder movement so far, but still have to add a "twist-fix" JCM for the upper arms to smooth the crumpling.

Even weightmapped, Posers "twist" deformation is quite unrealistic.

JoePublic : Thanks for the info.very help.

Think I'm going with JCM's & zBrush displacement ,maps.

Teyon : Can Poser 10 n Poser Pro 14 use zBrush vector maps ?

Overall, I like Roxie's proportions.  Those drinking straw arms are turrible, though. 

I just upgraded to the new Poser.  I'm surprised there aren't more threads about it here.  I guess I'm a couple of weeks late.  (I was on the road when it was released.)

Anything important I should know about the new and improved Poser?

randym77 : Your not late to the party ,Think some that ordered the CD is still waiting.

Can't speak for others but I'm still checking everything out.
But have not heard any alarms about Poser it's self.
I have more questions than answers.But have to say Poser Pro 14 is wicked cool.

Still don't know why I have a 64 & a 32 bit version.

Can't say I'm ecstatic over Rex n Roxie's topology.
Really have my doubts about Roxie's topology between her breast and collar bone.
Don't know why Rex's thing isn't attached.
Poser gives us a bunch of characters.All I really need is just a killer male n female mesh.
But I've never modeled a mesh that I didn't hate the topolagy.

There's a very valid reason why Rex's "thing" (or Mike's thing or Ryan's thing, etc, ad nauseum) is not attached. If you've ever used ApolloMax you'll know why. Try getting clothes over that "thing". It's damn near nigh to impossible. And making it invisible or turning off that body part leaves a huge hole in the hip (making it impossible to drape dynamice clothes over Apollo because they'd fall down inside the hip). Neither is ideal. A conforming "thing" IS ideal, at least that anyone's come up with yet.

I dunno about anyone else, but I want that pecker to go away (figureatively speaking)....in the interest of using clothes. LOL.

Laurie

Sorry, but I find conforming genitals a huge nuisance.

The less "figures" I have in my scene, the better.

(That's why I also made a lot of "Casual" figures with permanently fused on clothing)

So for my custom figures, I simply added a "Genital" actor in the SetUp room, so David's formerly detachable penis is now permanently attached.  :-)

If I want to cloth him, I simply make that Genital actor invisible and because the mons pubis is transmapped over the hip, there is no unsightly hole.

Short of Genesis' geometry fusion, this I think is the overall best solution, better than geometry switching, morphing the hip, or having the genitals as a completely separate figure.

Works for the ladies, too, btw.

I don't use meshes that have a real hi polycount like AM ,V4 etc etc.very much.
With C4D I'm use to using SubD meshes like Roxie n Rex.

Might be why ApolloMax never took off.

The way Rex's thing works might be ok for Poser but for zBrush & C4D ,ah ,not really.

The only possible solution That I can think of.
1-Have it atached to Rex with a morph to make it real small for conforming cloths.
Don't know how it would effect the rigs ,weights ,JCM's thou.
2-have two Rex's.
one with out a thing. one with a thing attached.

I just got the basic V5,M5 don't have gens for them.

I do not do ****, I never use those "things".

Use Hexagon to pull some poly's there, and all clothing works fine.

Quote - Alyson and Ryan. We occassionally do content updaters so it's not outside the realm of possibility.

Was it a seperate release to the Service Releases? Would you happen to know what the fixes were and if the arms and shoulders not lifting Alysons breasts/chest will ever have an update/fix? :D

Attached Link: Poser Pro 2012 Updates

Yes. See attached link, on the middle of the page.

Soooo... Do I really have to plunge in and buy PP2014 just to SEE Rex? Or could someone PLEASE post a render with him?

Some of us couldn't give a flying ... about Breast Sizes, y'know.. what matters are the size of some completely different bits ;)

Quote - Soooo... Do I really have to plunge in and buy PP2014 just to SEE Rex? Or could someone PLEASE post a render with him?

Some of us couldn't give a flying ... about Breast Sizes, y'know.. what matters are the size of some completely different bits ;)

Weed through this thread:

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?78572-Poser-10-Pro-2014-Renders/page2

Bending on page 4 and 5... the part you probably want to see hasn't been shown at all though it was requested on another thread.

I found his naughty bits somewhat awkward.  Maybe I don't know how to use them.  They are conforming, and come in sticking straight out at 90 degree angle.  Maybe that's why no one's posted images.  It looks kinda obscene. ;-)

And though the library thumbnail shows it in a droopy condition, it's not clear how to get it to look that way.  There are easy pose dials that result in an artificially curved look.  I finally got something vaguely natural looking by combining the easy pose bend dial with bending the first section.

There are also dials that let you change the size, girth, and smoothness.

Quote - They are conforming, and come in sticking straight out at 90 degree angle.

Must be why he's smiling....

Laurie

I'm not posting an image of the naughty bits in the default state because I'm not sure that's allowed here. 

Here's a close up with an 18 degree bend in the first section and BendAll in the body set to 15.  SidesideAll in the body is 2.8.

For some reason, it took much, much longer to render this image than the first one.  Didn't change anything but the position of the camera. 

Also, there are some odd blotches in the pubic area.  Probably some render setting I have wrong. 

Clearly, I have a lot to learn about the new Poser.

Wow..that gens looks terrible to be honest...No detail what so ever..looks like a stylized cylinder prop. And is that supposed to be a navel? sigh....

There's a "smoothness" dial you can set.  You get some really weird results if you set it too high or too low.  Ends up looking like a tongue.

Also, I have not messed with the new Sub D stuff.  Might be set wrong for this figure. 

Suddenly I'm hungry for sausages....

Zev's right...looks like a fleshy cylinder. LOL.

Laurie

Zev0 :
Thought you would have got Poser Pro 14 all ready.You getting Poser Pro 14 ?
Anyways Rex n Roxie could use a lot of morps. and every thing else.
Thou it don't look like anyone much is using them.
looks like V4 still rules.

"Also, there are some odd blotches in the pubic area.  Probably some render setting I have wrong."

That's splotchy shadows caused by an imperfect fit of the transmapped pubic area. Same problem you get with most conforming stockings or tights.

You have to either lower your shadow min bias until the whole pubic area casts shadows or raise it until everything is excluded from shadows.

The better the fit of the genital pubic over the hip pubic, the less shadow problems you get.

The new "tighten" brush might help fixing it.

As for the shape, well, it's a low res mesh. Subdivision can only make a figure smoother. So if you want more detail, you need to create a displacement map.

Quote - Zev0 :
Thought you would have got Poser Pro 14 all ready.You getting Poser Pro 14 ?
Anyways Rex n Roxie could use a lot of morps. and every thing else.
Thou it don't look like anyone much is using them.
looks like V4 still rules.

Ordered it, just waiting for my copy to arrive.

BBQ time.
LOL.

It is a very good figure, I just never use those parts.

I put a morph brush there to pull some polygons on the hip area.

Then he is perfect when clothed.
Nice figure, really nice.

"I found his naughty bits somewhat awkward."

Yes, things can be like that until you get to know someone better.  My advice is don't rush things.  Maybe try say a restaurant scene first.