I'm not sure that is an adequate analogy.  GNDA and Tyler, while beautifully scuplted, still relied on base figures that were very clearly NOT a step up from v4.  As much as I wanted to absolutely love them, I just couldn't.  A lot of bends from their basefigure's rig just never looked good and the problems always transfered over to the clothing I tried to make for them.  

To me I never got a sense that Allyson2, or any of the others really, was actually trying that hard to replace v4.  My Michelle probably came the closest, but it does seem that, especially with their own store, this group is different.  It seems like they have a real drive to finally take over that spot that a lot of us really feel its time v4 moved out of.

Quote -  

 didn't choose to make GNDA and Tyler their main figures, I don't see much chance of this bagging that spot.  Isn't the refusal to switch away from V4M4 driven by 1. people not upgrading to weight-map compatible Poser versions and 2. people not wanting to abandon their large wardrobes for those figures?  This can't realistically address either of those unless it comes with a heckuva lot of cheap clothes out of the gate.

I'll be watching to see what happens. ;)

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I think two digits are missing from your triangle count. It should be close to double the quad count.

i take those numbers to signal that it's a mix of quads and tris

Could be.

I didn't have your vast industry experience to distract me from the simple addition.

  Total Triangles:1702
+Total Quads:37624

---

Total Faces:39326

Thats why I gave up engineering, i'm fed up with numbers, i want pictures.

I'm seeing people talking about morphs and empty channels, so before everyone gets carried away (I know it's a bit late for some of you), you should know that morphs will be where one of the biggest differences between the two versions will be. Poser INJ/REM files are useless for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn, as you just can't Inject into them, I found this out the hard way when I converted Aiko 3 to Tri-Ax. DS4 also has the problem of not being able to create any INJ/REM files, so there is no easy way of getting any done in DS into Poser, as a result all morphs that get released for Dawn will have to be a joint effort between Poser & DS users.

Quote - I want to know about body morphs expansion packs. What and when? To me that's the real meat.

I think two digits are missing from your triangle count. It should be close to double the quad count.

to clarify, that is before converting quads to triangles. So double the quads, and add the triangles for full count.

Quote - > Quote - I want to know about body morphs expansion packs. What and when? To me that's the real meat.

I think two digits are missing from your triangle count. It should be close to double the quad count.

to clarify, that is before converting quads to triangles. So double the quads, and add the triangles for full count.

Gotcha, thanks :-)

The one thing I have noticed reading through other threads on other sites, is the reaction for both Poser and Studio sides once they know the names going out about the HiveWire3D team.

These are names that have a reputation behind them and people know exactly what they can do.

Some may try to detract us with various things, but it is up to us to keep getting that info out to people to give them a look at what is to come in the near future.

Then.... They can decide what they want to do, but at least we are discussing things, bouncing ideas about etc.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I'm seeing people talking about morphs and empty channels, so before everyone gets carried away (I know it's a bit late for some of you), you should know that morphs will be where one of the biggest differences between the two versions will be. Poser INJ/REM files are useless for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn, as you just can't Inject into them, I found this out the hard way when I converted Aiko 3 to Tri-Ax. DS4 also has the problem of not being able to create any INJ/REM files, so there is no easy way of getting any done in DS into Poser, as a result all morphs that get released for Dawn will have to be a joint effort between Poser & DS users.

the good news for Studio users, is triax and .duf/ .dsf files do not require injection morphs. make your morph and save it and it appears as its own file in the morphs folder. Use .cr2 exporter with binary  morphs option and your morph gets put into the mix in Poser. You create an injection file to read your .pmd and you are good to go!

As a DS user, this is wonderful news! This is sooo exciting!

Quote - > Quote - I'm seeing people talking about morphs and empty channels, so before everyone gets carried away (I know it's a bit late for some of you), you should know that morphs will be where one of the biggest differences between the two versions will be. Poser INJ/REM files are useless for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn, as you just can't Inject into them, I found this out the hard way when I converted Aiko 3 to Tri-Ax. DS4 also has the problem of not being able to create any INJ/REM files, so there is no easy way of getting any done in DS into Poser, as a result all morphs that get released for Dawn will have to be a joint effort between Poser & DS users.

 

the good news for Studio users, is triax and .duf/ .dsf files do not require injection morphs. make your morph and save it and it appears as its own file in the morphs folder. Use .cr2 exporter with binary  morphs option and your morph gets put into the mix in Poser. You create an injection file to read your .pmd and you are good to go!

Quote - > Quote - I'm seeing people talking about morphs and empty channels, so before everyone gets carried away (I know it's a bit late for some of you), you should know that morphs will be where one of the biggest differences between the two versions will be. Poser INJ/REM files are useless for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn, as you just can't Inject into them, I found this out the hard way when I converted Aiko 3 to Tri-Ax. DS4 also has the problem of not being able to create any INJ/REM files, so there is no easy way of getting any done in DS into Poser, as a result all morphs that get released for Dawn will have to be a joint effort between Poser & DS users.

 

the good news for Studio users, is triax and .duf/ .dsf files do not require injection morphs. make your morph and save it and it appears as its own file in the morphs folder. Use .cr2 exporter with binary  morphs option and your morph gets put into the mix in Poser. You create an injection file to read your .pmd and you are good to go!

You make it sound sooo easy... but what if you are a Poser user and that is where you work? Does that mean the DS users are out of luck when you make something like a morph then?

Another thing I', seeing, especialy in this thread is..... Solutions to problems.

Someone mentions that this or that could be a problem, then a few posts later up pops a solution.

Now that's working both ways as Poser AND Studio problems and solutions are being found.

This is how it should be, BOTH sides (I hate saying sides now. Lol) coming together to help one another and bring something new to the community.

It's so much nicer to see that happen.

In the end, there won't be this side or that side, just people having fun.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote -
the good news for Studio users, is triax and .duf/ .dsf files do not require injection morphs. make your morph and save it and it appears as its own file in the morphs folder. Use .cr2 exporter with binary  morphs option and your morph gets put into the mix in Poser. You create an injection file to read your .pmd and you are good to go!

I hope that somewhere along the line, some kind soul explains the whole process step by step, because I don't have the first clue, and I'd like whatever I make to work in both programs ;).

Laurie

It would be nice to see contemporary outfit that doesn't cling like a second skin and a nice pair of flat shoes.

Quote - I'm seeing people talking about morphs and empty channels, so before everyone gets carried away (I know it's a bit late for some of you), you should know that morphs will be where one of the biggest differences between the two versions will be. Poser INJ/REM files are useless for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn, as you just can't Inject into them, I found this out the hard way when I converted Aiko 3 to Tri-Ax. DS4 also has the problem of not being able to create any INJ/REM files, so there is no easy way of getting any done in DS into Poser, as a result all morphs that get released for Dawn will have to be a joint effort between Poser & DS users.

You should be able to apply the morph target to a stripped-down figure in Studio and simply export the figure as a cr2 with the PMD check box ticked.  That PMD file can then be applied via a pose to add the morph in Poser....

Quote - > Quote - I'm seeing people talking about morphs and empty channels, so before everyone gets carried away (I know it's a bit late for some of you), you should know that morphs will be where one of the biggest differences between the two versions will be. Poser INJ/REM files are useless for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn, as you just can't Inject into them, I found this out the hard way when I converted Aiko 3 to Tri-Ax. DS4 also has the problem of not being able to create any INJ/REM files, so there is no easy way of getting any done in DS into Poser, as a result all morphs that get released for Dawn will have to be a joint effort between Poser & DS users.

 

You should be able to apply the morph target to a stripped-down figure in Studio and simply export the figure as a cr2 with the PMD check box ticked.  That PMD file can then be applied with a pose to add the morph in Poser....

Yeah, but can it go the other direction? I work in Poser :(

Laurie

Quote -  

You should be able to apply the morph target to a stripped-down figure in Studio and simply export the figure as a cr2 with the PMD check box ticked.  That PMD file can then be applied with a pose to add the morph in Poser....

Yeah, but can it go the other direction? I work in Poser :(

Laurie

It would take using Studio, as Poser doesn't export Studio formatted files; I would export the morph target and apply it in Studio.  You shouldn't get your hands too dirty...

Quote - Yeah, but can it go the other direction? I work in Poser :(

Laurie

From what  I know DS 4.5 should be able to inject pmds automatically (for DS 3 there was a script for it). After that you just save separate morphs as "Morph assets" (you don't  even have to strip away other morphs, just pay attention that they aren't mixed together) and each of them in *.duf

Even if you don't know DS and/or don't like DS interface, it is 3-clicks convertion: load figure with pmds, Save as Morph Assets, click on morphs you wish to save, done. Repackaging will consist of finding files on hard drive and putting them into proper folder structure within zip.

Edited to add: ok, maybe I make it sound too easy. Actually TriAx version of Dawn won't be able to accept pmds, from what I know, so several extra steps might be involved. But I'm eager to try and see if two-clicks of converting Poser Dawn variation to temporary triax figure via DS capabilities will help with that.

Quote - You make it sound sooo easy... but what if you are a Poser user and that is where you work? Does that mean the DS users are out of luck when you make something like a morph then?

In a word Yes, you would have to supply someone with an OBJ of your custom morph(s), and let them create the required asset files for the Tri-Ax version of Dawn.

Kattey that only works when you load a PMD through the PZ3 Importer plugin and that requires a CR2/PP2/HR2 for that to happen, when I converted Aiko I found to my horror that I had to rebuild all of her morph, as many of the trans/rot/scale settings in some of the morphs got lost during convertion, that and DS4 really doesn't like Poser content, and I can see the same thing happening with Poser only content for Dawn.

I'm seeing so much conflicting info here I'm heavily confused. One says you can work in Poser and get the morphs to DS, one says you can't.

I have a migraine.

@WandW: it's not a matter of getting my hands dirty ;). It's the fact that I don't know the first thing about DS. What I know about it wouldn't even fill the bottom of a thimble. LOL

Laurie

sounds way cool. i haven't read excitement like this since the announced release of antonia.

the thing i liked about that project i have not seen here is that there were images of the creative process of the figure there, something important for visually starved poser addicts like me. it made it more exciting for me, not a content creator but a lowly content user, seeing the figure develop is much more important for me. i just don't get excited about dson export/import, app compatability, mapping zones etc.

i need to see how the figure will fit into my vision of how she/he/it will fulfill my needs to live vicariously through my poser imaging. for me a few pictures are worth more than thousands of words.  :)

now that i've crossed my eyes trying to read this whole thread, i look forward to actually seeing this new figure.

glad all the vintage poser content creators are involved too btw. sounds great.

Oooh obj... that reminds me... I need to... fire up the poser load some of that g person's clothes I like, and save them as objects so I can... bring them back in and fit them to V4 and maybe Dawn.

Quote - From what I can see with Dawn the only BIG limitation between Poser and Studio content would be dynamic clothing.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Not Really!

These days, depending on the dynamic clothing item, i import and rig it in Daz studio. Not as beautiful as dynamic, and not everything is suitable to rig, but that's what i do!

A limitation from the other side is the awesome LAMH presets that I made and definitely plan to make for Dawn! they don't work in Poser. :( 

Wow - there's a lot of posts since I last looked!!

etujedi said:

Quote - Installers: HiveWire 3d will NOT be using installers for content. they will be .zip files

lets out LOUD cheer :) The move to zips (Animajik, you can re-download all your files in the zip format at Daz by going to Product library under MY ACCOUNT, or using the Download Installation Manager.) was one of the best things that Daz has done since the change....

As to the no genitals - I don't do nudes so no problem, but to me, having no genitals but allowing third party people to create them is better than providing them but ONLY if you buy the most expensive bundle for the character.

Something I asked earlier - **Steve, will there be kids down the road?  And maybe even a baby?? ** Also, I sent you an email and haven't heard back - hoping you've just been busy and it didn't get lost in cyberspace :)

Quote - for me a few pictures are worth more than thousands of words.  :) now that i've crossed my eyes trying to read this whole thread, i look forward to actually seeing this new figure.

Yes, we need pictures, I don't think well verbally, I'm starting to get the wall or text exhaustion. Pictures would be nice before my attention span peters out.

Quote - > Quote - for me a few pictures are worth more than thousands of words.  :) now that i've crossed my eyes trying to read this whole thread, i look forward to actually seeing this new figure.

Yes, we need pictures, I don't think well verbally, I'm starting to get the wall or text exhaustion. Pictures would be nice before my attention span peters out.

I'm getting there too ;).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - for me a few pictures are worth more than thousands of words.  :) now that i've crossed my eyes trying to read this whole thread, i look forward to actually seeing this new figure.

Yes, we need pictures, I don't think well verbally, I'm starting to get the wall or text exhaustion. Pictures would be nice before my attention span peters out.

I'm getting there too ;).

Laurie

yes indeed

...should we consider starting a chant?  

Quote - I'm seeing so much conflicting info here I'm heavily confused. One says you can work in Poser and get the morphs to DS, one says you can't.

I have a migraine.

@WandW: it's not a matter of getting my hands dirty ;). It's the fact that I don't know the first thing about DS. What I know about it wouldn't even fill the bottom of a thimble. LOL

Laurie

I'm perhaps up to half a thimble.   I use it only to export Studio format to Poser.  In fact, I need to update it, as I'm still using 4.5...

Quote - Which leads me to a question about Dawn. Does Dawn come with any autofit clones or are there any plans top create them?

thanks

 

Pen

Reposting this question as I would really love an answer....in particular I would love to see a clone for Genesis at least.

Anyone know if that would be possible?

Thanks

Pen

Quote - Kattey that only works when you load a PMD through the PZ3 Importer plugin and that requires a CR2/PP2/HR2 for that to happen

I was thinking more along the lines - because all we need is to load a morph, why not load original Poser Dawn version into DS (pmds should load automatically if properly made), convert it to TriAx weight figure via Edit -> Figure options. This temporary TriAx should have pmd morphs retained, after that save them as morph assets and move those morph assets to DS version of Dawn. I'm not sure if it works, but I'll like to try.

Laurie, there is a lot of conflicting info, because almost nobody has a figure itself to work with :) once it is out it will be much clear of what it can and cannot do.

Where it says no genitals on the skin textures does that mean flesh colored there but no details or will they all be some kind of bikini painted on?

I don't have a problem with the lack of genitals since I don't do nudes but the cut of clothing might allow a bikini to show and with my luck it just won't match.

Here's hoping there's lessons on how to get it done. LOL

Laurie

Although, I looked forward to the zips, I still use the installers.  The way the zips are packaged annoy me.  It's actually more work for me to put everything in their proper folders when I use those zips than it is with the installers.

So, as long as the Hivewire zips are packaged cleanly without excess (unused) folders, I'll be a happy camper.  Hopefully, since it will be separate figures for DS and Poser, we won't have DS files in the Poser zips.  Please, pretty please.  With cream and sugar ... or chocolate.

Quote - > Quote - .zip files work for me.  They're being used every where else except at Daz.  And no need for custom installers for HiveWire3d.  

-AniMajik

  Oh, DAZ3D is using zips now, too.  Finally!  It just took them forever to get to this point.

Dana

this looks like a figure I can suport

Have you asked Alpha Seed?

Creature morphs are essential.  Dawn will need everything that's in the Gen 4 Creature Creator morph pack.  You'd be surprised how often I add a touch of the creature head morphs to a human figure.  

Additionally, could we please have Gecko Toes in addition to Gecko fingers?  I hate having to put shoes or boots on a creature with Gecko fingers because the toes are still human.

It's not the large Gen 4 wardrobe in my runtime that keeps me stuck with V4/M4.  It's the vast amount of morphs both V4 and M4 have ... which the other figures lack.

While I'm eagerly anticipating Dawn, she won't become a go to figure for me until she has the morph packs I consider essential.  It appears many of my essentials will be available within a reasonable period of time after Dawn arrives.

Quote - Though if Poser users didn't choose to make GNDA and Tyler their main figures, I don't see much chance of this bagging that spot.  Isn't the refusal to switch away from V4M4 driven by 1. people not upgrading to weight-map compatible Poser versions and 2. people not wanting to abandon their large wardrobes for those figures?  This can't realistically address either of those unless it comes with a heckuva lot of cheap clothes out of the gate. I'll be watching to see what happens. ;)

Honestly, I'm with you there, Laurie.  I am hoping for some tutorials on the DS end of things.  I'm not finding it intuitive.  Simple navigation and all that... yeah I get it.  But getting into some of the tools, I'm lost.

Oh BTW, SubD at 1 level in Poser 2014 looks great for Dawn.  No issues.  No flying polys, no oddities.

So here's my question: will the eventual male shape use the same mesh, or will it be a different figure? I am a DS user and I love using Genesis because I can easily male male and female figures that look related, plus kids, whether human of a particular ethnicity, alien, fantasy, etc., and the figures can share clothes as well as morphs and textures. This is very important to me, and one of my main concerns about the DAZ figure strategy, given the release of a new batch of gender-divided figures.

Second question: what about anime, manga, toon figures? There seems to be some resistance at DAZ to supporting fully toon figures on the same mesh, even though it makes developing content so much easier. How does HiveWire feel about non-realistic shapes on the same base? And is there any chance we might see famous figures like Cookie and Chip converted to the Dawn figure base?

Quote - So here's my question: will the eventual male shape use the same mesh, or will it be a different figure? I am a DS user and I love using Genesis because I can easily male male and female figures that look related, plus kids, whether human of a particular ethnicity, alien, fantasy, etc., and the figures can share clothes as well as morphs and textures. This is very important to me, and one of my main concerns about the DAZ figure strategy, given the release of a new batch of gender-divided figures.

 

I would also like to know this....

Quote - Honestly, I'm with you there, Laurie.  I am hoping for some tutorials on the DS end of things.  I'm not finding it intuitive.  Simple navigation and all that... yeah I get it.  But getting into some of the tools, I'm lost.

Oh BTW, SubD at 1 level in Poser 2014 looks great for Dawn.  No issues.  No flying polys, no oddities.

Good to know :). I don't have PP14 yet, but I can't wait to play around with SubD when I do ;). For the moment tho, I just wanna see those bends ;).

TBH, the DS and Poser back and forth thing does concern me a little bit. It's been my experience that something always gets lost in translation. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Laurie

Quote - this looks like a figure I can suport

Have you asked Alpha Seed?

They had some interesting comments in this thread...

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?79921-Poserpro2014-gt-gt-gt-Victoria-6-Genesis-2-Female&p=765336&viewfull=1#post765336

...some of their prior posts are even more interesting, but outside the scope of this thread....

Okay, these are my feelings on it and I like to be optimistic.  I think the DS and Poser sides will come together.  Maybe we can forge some tools to get all the things done that we need.  We can teach each other and learn - that may require more than one Pina Colada or Rum and Coke, but that's okay too :)  I remember things being tricky back in the day when there was DS 2/3, Poser 6/7 and V3.  We got it done.  I know, I know it's different now, but let's not spoil the warm fuzzy feeling, m'kay?

You'll just have to be a little patient on the images.  I think it's important to allow Steve, Chris and Paul to post official peeks/presentation for you before I do anything like that.

I think the really exciting thing here is that there will be a version for Poser and a version for DAZ Studio.

I think that the team are to be congratulated for deciding to make sure that Dawn will work in both :) :)

Quote - sounds way cool. i haven't read excitement like this since the announced release of antonia.

the thing i liked about that project i have not seen here is that there were images of the creative process of the figure there, something important for visually starved poser addicts like me. it made it more exciting for me, not a content creator but a lowly content user, seeing the figure develop is much more important for me. i just don't get excited about dson export/import, app compatability, mapping zones etc.

i need to see how the figure will fit into my vision of how she/he/it will fulfill my needs to live vicariously through my poser imaging. for me a few pictures are worth more than thousands of words.  :)

now that i've crossed my eyes trying to read this whole thread, i look forward to actually seeing this new figure.

glad all the vintage poser content creators are involved too btw. sounds great.

I'm a more "visual guy" myself.  But it's not just the release of the new model that's exciting, it also about the people behind this effort, as well as the debut of a new content site as well.   I have a feeling we'll start seeing some more wips soon.

But, I'm also just as interested in the new site.

-AniMajik

Quote -> Quote - this looks like a figure I can suport

Have you asked Alpha Seed?

They had some interesting comments in this thread...
http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?79921-Poserpro2014-gt-gt-gt-Victoria-6-Genesis-2-Female&p=765336&viewfull=1#post765336
...some of their prior posts are even more interesting, but outside the scope of this thread....

Yep, they are in the very same predicament that many of us content makers are.

Quote -
Okay, these are my feelings on it and I like to be optimistic.  I think the DS and Poser sides will come together.  Maybe we can forge some tools to get all the things done that we need.  We can teach each other and learn - that may require more than one Pina Colada or Rum and Coke, but that's okay too :)  I remember things being tricky back in the day when there was DS 2/3, Poser 6/7 and V3.  We got it done.  I know, I know it's different now, but let's not spoil the warm fuzzy feeling, m'kay?You'll just have to be a little patient on the images.  I think it's important to allow Steve, Chris and Paul to post official peeks/presentation for you before I do anything like that.

Tell them the longer we wait and all we have to see is a text wall, the crankier and the more judgemental we'll get! Throw people a bone, so they have little something to do while they wait for the main act.

Wow! This is such great news for the 3D community! After reading all the posts, and seeing all the familiar names and vendors that are supporting this new figure, I can't wait for her to be released! You can bet I'll be there when the site launches...credit card in hand lol. So....when is Thorne gonna pop her head in and say hi ? (purely supposition on my part....I know that Sarsa, Mada and Thorne are not all really joined at the hip)  Exciting times, indeed!

Quote -
Tell them the longer we wait and all we have to see is a text wall, the crankier and the more judgemental we'll get! Throw people a bone, so they have little something to do while they wait for the main act.

 

Patience. Kitteh, patience! :)  I'd rather they do it right and not rush it.  But I'm sure they'll be throwing us a teaser pict soon!

(You do know they're not saying "Meow", but "Now!" :)

-AniMajik

Quote - :surfaces briefly from ocean of work:

Can't have a new figure without some faerie clothes and wings :)

:dives back in pixel sea:

I love your fairy stuff so much! Some beautiful wings and lovely things is will be wonderful!

Quote - it's not a matter of getting my hands dirty ;). It's the fact that I don't know the first thing about DS. What I know about it wouldn't even fill the bottom of a thimble. LOL Laurie

Ditto for me Laurie, I am so NOT a DS user, not even a little. 

Thank the powers that be for .zips! 

What about Licence, seeing thing kinda went extra sour when conversions for a figure were made, and much hoop jumping was needed.

Can she put her hands above her head, or is that even possible on a 3d figure?

... I'm not reading all of this lol

But yes, for those who have asked - yes I will probably make magnet kits for this figure as needed, as well as support with my upcoming MagicMags setup.

Yes I will make a devkit simialr to my Alyson2 kit, along with the devkits in progress for about 50 other figures.

Yes, I will make a fitroom helper kit, along with the ones I am developing for aforesaid other figures.

Just as soon as I finish writing this book .. half a chapter to go and then its off at the editors!

Lyrra

Quote - Another thing I', seeing, especialy in this thread is..... Solutions to problems.

Someone mentions that this or that could be a problem, then a few posts later up pops a solution.

Now that's working both ways as Poser AND Studio problems and solutions are being found.

This is how it should be, BOTH sides (I hate saying sides now. Lol) coming together to help one another and bring something new to the community.

It's so much nicer to see that happen.

In the end, there won't be this side or that side, just people having fun.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Exactly. I love the fact that so many people have come together, whether or not they are users of Daz or Poser. It is a great feeling to see people entering into constructive conversations together.