Quote - One bit you may have missed - Poser has been passed around to quite a few companies (and at least 3 continents) over the years. How it survived the dot-bust I'll never guess.

The last time I used Poser, it came from Curious Labs. (So that gives y'all some idea of just how long it's been!;) I so wish I hadn't waited that long to pick it up again... but that's another topic. There is something about the business model that must be working, or it wouldn't have survived everything that it has. I honestly think that just being a public company can go a long way... thinking of other examples, but they're not exactly what you'd call relevant here.

lmackenzie, you may have made some points worth exploring, and you're actually kind of touching on what I meant with the V4 thing...  but is it really necessary to call posters a howling partisan mob? Do we have to read that we're "holy warriors bitching" as you make your points? How does that help a discussion? How does it contribute to making people willing to hear what you have to say? It might be a lot more helpful to be less inflammatory.

That having been said, have the point and click people (and there's NOTHING wrong with that motivation!) been happy with Genesis and especially the latest update variants? If it were possible to really find out what the sales figures were, my guess is no. There will always be anecdotes and individual cases, but anecdotes are not data. And if we could see the data, I believe that the answer would be no. That's a big part of the reason why I think that Dawn could please everybody and bring about a real change. The opportunity is there. 

I came in at Poser 5, Curious Labs, then 6 and 7 from e-Frontier, and now SmithMicro.  I don't see that Curious labs did much for Poser, e-Frontier, improvement with P7 was pretty good.  But none of them have done as much as SmithMicro has, Poser has really gotten to be a powerhouse now.  I'd also like to point out that this IS the "POSER" forum, populated by people that use and like POSER.  I might have seen a daz studio forum somewhere, but don't remember where.  Oh, yeah, that's it.  But it's offline tonight, has been for most of three days now.  Oh, well.

As the thread title states, the gene2/v6 thing is for most Poser users, hmm, well,

a

dud.

Doric.

Lets face it, every Poser figure there has ever been  has had it's problems, upto and including V4 it was joint and the odd proportional scaling issue, with Gen 1 and 2, the fact it wasn't Poser native amongst other things. The thing with V4 though, is that she was given enough time to evolve through 3rd party fixes and improvements. The customer base was and is huge, and so is the 3rd party support.

Now if Dawn fixes the issues that were present in V4 and is built with the new tech available in Poser kept in mind, then she could very well be jumping ahead of V4 in the runtime. My only doubt is that she won't look any better than a V4 with fixes or WM...she will just look different. I'm not saying that a different looking high quality figure isn't needed, just that I'm not sure that it will look any better when rendered. Lets face it, figures may change, but we are still using the same hair (for example), that we've been using for the last decade or so.

I would hope so.  When v4 came out, I'd never heard of weight mapping, so it's probably something developed to the working stage since then.  We have to remember that v4WM is a fix, and Dawn is a new figure developed with that in mind. 

Doric

what is working for SM is that they are sticking to what they are really good at, which is the program. They are letting DAZ take the lead with the figure (instead of trying super hard to take it over) ,they are not getting distracted with hairbrained expansion schemes, and they are pacing themselves. All things that DAZ is having a bit of trouble with.

Yea, I remembered two more DAZ flops, Gizmo's and the Art Zone. sooo... Bryce, Cararra, Hexagon (I'm calling it a flop for lack of growth and development), Gizmos, Art Zone, Optitex, Game marketplace, Genesis.  All of those were supposed to be a big deal, and sort of faded to a second or third fiddle, or even disappeared. That hurts big time financially.

They have some wornderful art talent and tech people, but their business leadership... I'm not so sure about. It's all very ADD, and that gets very costly. 

Quote - Ease of use doesn't describe ds, confusion and chaos do.

Different strokes. That's the reason I switched to using DAZ Studio for my main app, ease of use and workflow.

Coldrake

Quote - I would hope so.  When v4 came out, I'd never heard of weight mapping, so it's probably something developed to the working stage since then.  We have to remember that v4WM is a fix, and Dawn is a new figure developed with that in mind. 

Doric

V4 was released around 2006.
Weight maps been around since the 1990's.
Just about all the tech in Poser & DAZ Studio has been around since the 1990's.

The people making this Dawn are against nudity and focusing on the education market according to their facebook page...so I don't see that figure going anywhere. No genitals and they will probably have that second skin covering the breasts as the only option. I will use V4, Genesis, Anastasia, or My Michelle. 

 All that means is the vendors at renderotica and elsewhere have some work to do (although I really don't want to hear endless jokes about 'the crack of Dawn'.....). Plus, if they -are- after the education market, that market will kinda demand some anatomical accuracy...if not actual genitals, then pelvic structure. Which will make 3rd party gens easier to add.

And I'm sorry, but there is a bit of false impression going on here. Poser still has all the features of P4; you can ignore the shaders, the face room, the fitting room, dynamics, physics, and get the exact same results you got out of P4. Just because you have a toolbox doesn't mean you have to use every tool every time you open the box. Just because a person is indifferent or outright afraid of a tool doesn't render said tool useless. The dynamic cloth module we use was based off a plugin for Max, I believe (as can be determined by the complexity and lack of references for the controls). The Poser team has been doing its thing....the app. Zygote/DAZ did their things...figure meshes. One of those made a grab for the whole pie, buying up moribund or dead apps and doing little to nothing to them. We won't get into the g-thing debacle. 

Me, I like added functions. Can be a bitch to learn, but can give you some cool results (coughRWBYcough). If Coop gets his way and exposes bullet in python, we likely will see faceoff either integrate Poser Physics, or write a specific ragdoll for bullet. Not much use for an still artist; for an animator, though......

Consistency of app building has given us a pretty powerful Poser that so far =hasn't= broken backwards compatibility to the watershed P4.

No comment elsewhere.  

Quote - The people making this Dawn are against nudity and focusing on the education market according to their facebook page...so I don't see that figure going anywhere. No genitals and they will probably have that second skin covering the breasts as the only option. I will use V4, Genesis, Anastasia, or My Michelle. 

Is that really all that different from DAZ?  You can't post images with nudity at DAZ, either, and while there are genitals for Genesis, they are only available if you buy the most expensive bundle at about $100.  Hivewire is encouraging others to make naughty bits for their figure, and I have no doubt someone will step up to the task.

Quote - Is that really all that different from DAZ?  You can't post images with nudity at DAZ, either, and while there are genitals for Genesis, they are only available if you buy the most expensive bundle at about $100.  Hivewire is encouraging others to make naughty bits for their figure, and I have no doubt someone will step up to the task.

Slightly different. You may not show it on the forum, but you can texture the gens area in. Their store won't allow that. Male figures sell less if the textures for the gens aren't there, especially if it is a unique texture.

Well, at this point there is no Hivewire male figure, so who knows what the deal will be there.  Though they have said that "Dusk" will share Dawn's mesh, but have a custom rigging, so they're planning one.

Well they've said they're not providing the genitals, so it's a safe bet people will have to find a 3rd party solution if they need it.

I use V4 for 90% of the images I create. I love the figure and have a MASSIVE runtime for it.

I have Just started getting in to using Genesis 1 in my work.  The figure does have fantastic Versatility, The UV swapping, the morphing ability, dynamic morph injection, weight mappping etc, Really are great. 

I think though that Genesis makes for far better monsters and Male characters than it does for Female ones.

However Genesis 2, is a fantastic figure. The subtle details are excellent, the bends are much improved, expressions are more realistc, you can see that it COULD be a wonderful platform for Realistic Female figures, and I was REALLY excited about what I saw in the Figure...particularly with the additional morph support from the P.A.'s

But do you know what, I HAVE NOT BOUGHT HER YET.... why???...because of the way DAZ has handled the release of this figure.  Some key compatability and functionality has been lost, indeed not even addressed by DAZ.

Its like they have just thrown her out onto the market place without proper regard or understanding of their customers, in an almost take it or leave it fashion.

Its understandable why many view this figure as just another cash cow for Daz to wring more money out of their customers.

I would buy into Genesis 2 and V6 in a second, if I believed in DAZ the company. 

If I was confident that this figure would be properly nurtured and the views of, and wants of THEIR customers, acknowledged and acted upon.

But alas I am not confident, and that is a failing more of DAZ as an organisation, than of GENESIS 2 itself.

S.K.

Isn't PoserArtist aimed at the Point And Click crowd already?

Though why anyone woukld buy a dumbed down version of a program has always puzzled me. It's not like you NEED to understand how the Material Room works to make a pretty picture. It helps with the final reality, but reality isn't always what's needed. As long as you have a big-boobed nekkid woman, a lot of the Point-And-Click-crowd will be happy.

Remember that the Poser world is split in several parts. There are those who want realism. Want realistic every-day clothes ect. There are a fantasy/sci fi crowd, and then, last but absolutely not least, there's a HUGE base of people who use Poser for porn.

And then there's all the "do a little of each" users like myself.

But  there is a reason why there's so much slutwear available: It sells. And a large part of that is because of Poser's usability for both soft- and hardcore pornography. Pretending that Poser is NOT a program to make inexpensive porn is deluding yourselv. YOU may not use it for that, but a LOT of people do. And a lot of very talented people, too. I've seen Poser porn pics that blew my mind, because they were GREAT, in an artistic/realistic sense of the word. Very well crafted. It's not JUST made by the generic pimpled teenage in his basement. ;)

So: Any new (female) character that comes out will NEED a certain amount of slutwear in order to be properly popular. As well as some Vargas style clothes for the segment that prefers these kind of pictures.

Throw in a few sets of sci-fi suits and a regular dress, t-shirt and jeans, and you may have a starter pack that will have a good chance of success. IF the boobs can be morphed big enough ;)

Quote - Well they've said they're not providing the genitals, so it's a safe bet people will have to find a 3rd party solution if they need it.

We'll see.  Probably better that way, anyway.  Genitals are a waste of polys if you are clothing the figures, and if you're not, the ones that come with the figure usually aren't that great, and people end up buying third party ones anyway.

Like Rex.  His weiner is weird.  Definitely only good for distance shots.  Like, maybe from Mars.

Quote - The people making this Dawn are against nudity and focusing on the education market according to their facebook page...so I don't see that figure going anywhere. No genitals and they will probably have that second skin covering the breasts as the only option. I will use V4, Genesis, Anastasia, or My Michelle. 

Yup. Like I said before, Dawn is the V# that Daz didn't make because they were doing the Genesis versions instead. Not different enough to be interesting to me. Fair enough - it's the people who were Daz, so it's hardly surprising that it will be the "new Daz" and the "new Daz V# that should have been". All well and good, but not for me. I'll be sticking with the figures I use now and any new ones that interest me. V6 doesn't. Dawn.... can't really say much 'til there's more to go on than a couple of head shots, but I'm not hopeful. I can see this one ending up going nowhere as well, but obviously great for Poser and Dazdom if it doesn't. More figures is always good news - even if I'm not going to use them.

Here is a list of vendors and people involved in the Dawn project for those who have not had a chance to go through the now 24 pages of posts at the free stuff forum.

I know many times people are afraid to invest in a new character for fear it will not be supported, but the list of supporters and developers is quite impressive. If you have not read about the project over in the free stuff thread (it is now a sticky at the top of the thread), the first few posts from the new company HiveWire3D will introduce you to the new character with versions for both Daz and Poser.

I think when you see this list of people involved, it will be clear that this is  not just another 3rd party character that will fade into the twilight, it is definitely "the Dawn of a new day," as they put it.

Chris Creek( 3D Artist/Modeler)—Founder of HiveWire3D: Formerly co-founder of both Zygote and Daz3D—executive vice-president of for almost a decade—created/worked with artistic teams on several popular figures for Poser/Daz including Posette/Dork and Victoria and Michael in all of their incarnations.

Eric Merrit(Graphic Artist)—Co-Founder of HiveWire3D: Formerly co-founder of Zygote—Worked for several years as a core team member at DAZ 3D—helped design/manage user interface for DAZ Studio. Co-founder of  AniMate and AniBlock system, designed and sold by GoFigure.

Steve Kondris(Tech Support) worked for Daz for 11+ years in various roles.

Ken Gilliand/KenG-(3D Artist/Modeler)—has created many models for several years that were formerly featured on Daz—Best known for his lifelike creations of birds and his love for Audubon style art.

Paul Lessard/etujedi(3D Artist/Rigger/content creator)—formerly of Daz where he worked on generation 4 and 5 human figures, as well as various other models--now working on Dawn.

Sarsa(Texture Artist)—has created hundreds of items that are at Daz—also has a store on Renderosity—has created many character textures and has frequently  worked with Thorne, currently working on the Dawn project.

Lisa Buckalew/LisaB(3D  Artist/Modeler)—former PC Co-Manager at DAZ--Best known for Lisa Botanicals—until recently had a large store of items at Daz, currently working with HiveWire3D.

Mab(Texture Artist)—has a large store of products on Daz—many fantasy and fairy themed items in collaboration with other artists

Bobbie25(3D Artist/Modeler)—has large store of clothing models at Daz—a mixture of fantasy and casual clothing

Virtual World(Texture Artist)—has a store on Renderosity with several items especially character and hair texures

Silver(3D Artist/Character Creator)—has a store on Renderosity—some models and several character sets and hair texures

LaurieA (3D Artist/Modeler) has created a large variety collection of freebie models—and has a store on Renderosity

BadKittehCo(3D Artist/Modeler)—store on Renderosity and RDNA—a variety of  textures and models

Afrodite-Ohki(3D Artist/Modeler) has a store on Renderosity and RDNA  a variety of textures and models

Latexluv(Texture Artist)—has indicated in this thread that she and LaurieA will work on a merchant resource for Dawn

Lululee(3D Artist/Modeler)—store on Renderosity and Content Paradise—a variety of  textures and models, mostly apparel.

Ryverthorn(3D Artist/Modeler) has large stores on Renderosity and Daz--a variety of textures and models

Glitterati 3D(3D Artist/Modeler)—store on Renderosity and a larger store on RDNA—a variety of  textures and models

Bea(3D Artist/Texture Artist)—store on Renderosity and RDNA—a variety of  textures and models—frequently works with Aliwonder

Paganeagle2001(3D Artist/Modeler)—freebie store on Renderosity—has said he will make freebies for Dawn

Netherworks(3D Artist/programmer/utility creator)—has store on Renderosity, RDNA and Daz  also has Website called Netherworks Studios

Nanette Tredoux(3D Artist/Modeler)—freebie store on Renderosity—has said she will make freebies for Dawn

Rhiannon(3D Artist/Modeler) has large store on Renderosity --a variety of textures and models

LadyRaine(3D Artist/Texture Artist)-- has large store on RDNA--a variety of textures

Skylab(Pose Artist)—has a page on Share CG—has said he will make freebie poses for Dawn

MeatSim(3D Artist/Modeler)—currently working on some models for the marketplace possible freebis/for sale items

Mada(3D Artist/Modeler) has large store on Daz and  a store on Fairy Dreams website --a variety of textures and models

Rhiannon(3D Artist/Modeler) has large stores on Renderosity --a variety of textures and models

Cariad(3D Artist/Modeler) has store on Renderosity

Tavia3D(3D Artist/Modeler) has a store on Renderosity and RDNA  a variety of textures and models

Lyrra((3D Artist/Modeler) has a store on Renderosity --a variety of textures, models, magnets—has said he will make magnets and dev-kit for Dawn

I  will also support her on my store at CP,  QuantumRiverGraphics (Texture Artist)and in freebies at Renderosity

Quote - The people making this Dawn are against nudity and focusing on the education market according to their facebook page...so I don't see that figure going anywhere. No genitals and they will probably have that second skin covering the breasts as the only option. I will use V4, Genesis, Anastasia, or My Michelle. 

The current V things also might as well not have any genitals.   THose for the males are a disgrace, for the females, a magnet would do the same just as well.  The last accurate representations that actually came with a figure were Don and Judy.  I don't know about the Gene thing, as I don't use it and don't really care.  Accuracy even with the P5 people is a relative thing, YMMV. 

Those that are working in medical areas will demand a little more accuracy than the average user, so "education" doesn't rule out anything.

What would rule them out is probably a violation of TOS to discuss.

Doric.

Quote - People wanted programs that were more capable, we have that, but along with capability comes complexity.  Necessary,  and not an evil thing.  

Big caveat: Good UX design does not mean that complexity is necessary. There are means of simplifying features and hiding the guts behind a tab, or have a button open the uglier bits in a different window.

Both applications do that to an extent, but not cleanly (or clearly) enough. This is why most users don't bother with dynamic hair/clothing, for instance.

Quote - "The people making this Dawn are against nudity and focusing on the education market according to their facebook page...so I don't see that figure going anywhere. No genitals and they will probably have that second skin covering the breasts as the only option. I will use V4, Genesis, Anastasia, or My Michelle. "

When you load V4 into a scene she does not have genitals, she has a purple bikini painted on. The rest is materials and addons. I think we can say almost 100% that someone will make these available.

Quote - Here is a list of vendors and people involved in the Dawn project for those who have not had a chance to go through the now 24 pages of posts at the free stuff forum.

Chris Creek (sneck)

This is all you need to see. If Chris is making the mesh, it will kick ass.

I love and have respect for numerous others in the list, but I think you just overcame the first hurdle in making a figure that's worth a damn. ;)

Quote - Both applications do that to an extent, but not cleanly (or clearly) enough. This is why most users don't bother with dynamic hair/clothing, for instance.

My choices in clothing will always favor dynamic over conforming.  But that's Poser dynamic, and it works, if one takes the time to use it.  If you aren't willing to put in a little time and effort, your choice, and skirts that stick through the bottom of a chair must be acceptable to you.  It isn't to me.

THis is my choice, and absolutely nothing says anyone has to agree or try to follow, or lead as the case may be.  I choose to go the few minutes extra when it gives the results I want.  If someone doesn't want to, that's their choice.  But the tools are there, the choice to use them is left to the user, as are the results of not using them.

Doric.

PS: A vag or lack thereof is no big deal - RajDarge could make one in less time than it takes to render a complex Bryce scene, and he already has the skinHip thingy figured down. 

...as long as the breasts have that neat-o set of morphs that V4 has. (-what? I'm a dirty old man; I think about stuff like that.)

Quote - Here is a list of vendors and people involved in the Dawn project for those who have not had a chance to go through the now 24 pages of posts at the free stuff forum...

(snippety snip. Long, long, long list.)

I just finished spending two years researching a company before deciding to invest in it. (Not relevant which it is or anything, but the point is...) I learned the entire life story of the CEO, CFO, chief science officer, etc etc etc... history of the company... history of their research... anyway, it took two years.

Looking at that list, it takes two MINUTES to decide that if Daz were a public company, I would never even think about buying stock in it. Seeing that entire list, I'm even more convinced than before. I would run far, FAR away, and advise everyone else to do the same. It's not about the figures, but in the end, it would turn out the same way as if it were. V6 may be great, for all I know, but I don't think that people should invest in something that has a very good chance of being totally unsupported by the parent company within a year (along with everything else.) It's sad, but investors have to think about themselves, their time, their money, their energy, and their artistic effort.

Quote - > Quote - Well they've said they're not providing the genitals, so it's a safe bet people will have to find a 3rd party solution if they need it.

We'll see.  Probably better that way, anyway.  Genitals are a waste of polys if you are clothing the figures, and if you're not, the ones that come with the figure usually aren't that great, and people end up buying third party ones anyway.

Like Rex.  His weiner is weird.  Definitely only good for distance shots.  Like, maybe from Mars.

LOL ,RorrKonn wipes beer off screen.

When Michelangelo and Crew painted the Sistine Chapel they where painted nude.
Later on the Church had them paint cloths on them.

Just some randome thoughts.

If anyone wanted to work for DAZ now would be a good time to apply.
Atualy now would be a good time to apply to HiveWire also.

Not that anyone here would care.but DAZ could block Dawn from working in DAZ Studio.
So then Dawn would only work in Poser.

All's fair in Love & War.

Quote - Not that anyone here would care.but DAZ could block Dawn from working in DAZ Studio.
So then Dawn would only work in Poser.

All's fair in Love & War.

I don't credit the daz management with having a high degree of practical intelligence, but that would be going beyond even daz.  Even they could see that would have exactly the opposite of the desired effect.

Doric.

Is HiveWire going to sell Dawn out of DAZ or Renderosity etc etc online stores that's allready up or are they going to make there own online store ?

Don't have a facebook ,
Thought about it once but my name is RorrKonn not Rorrkonn.
Don't care to be ruled buy others rules eather.

Don't know nothing about facebook forsure.
but I always assumed it's a PG site ?

Probably off their own store, where content will be sold is up to the vendor.

I bought a 2013 Prius c with the money I saved.  Seriously.

Quote - Actually, this is great! With the money I saved not buying into the g-thing and its newest polyp, I was able to save up and get Pro Tools today....! Finally got my sound needs covered, software wise..... And if any audiophiles out there want it and are thinking of holding off, don't. You'll get a free upgrade to ProTools 11 when it is released.

Amazing how easy it is to keep on, isn't it? 8D

Quote - Is HiveWire going to sell Dawn out of DAZ or Renderosity etc etc online stores that's allready up or are they going to make there own online store ?

Their best bet would be their own store. This way there's a better shot at staying independent. 

As for the application urination contest, and the hilarious armchair predictions by obvious amateurs in the business world? Whatevs. 

Here's how it's gonna go:

DAZ and SmithMicro will continue pumping out new versions of apps. DAZ will continue making stuff that folks will use - be it V4, Genesis, or whatever. SmithMicro will rely on DAZ and others for their content, thus their continued survival. Chris' venture may or may not pan out - depends on how well he and his team can build and market the thing(s) - IMHO, they have a solid team and a solid start - time will tell from there. 

Most importantly? All of these companies will continue talking to each other, laughing on the phone together, and overall working together to keep the community going ...in spite of its most vocal members. ;)

Quote - > Quote - Is HiveWire going to sell Dawn out of DAZ or Renderosity etc etc online stores that's allready up or are they going to make there own online store ?

Their best bet would be their own store. This way there's a better shot at staying independent. 

As for the application urination contest, and the hilarious armchair predictions by obvious amateurs in the business world? Whatevs. 

Here's how it's gonna go:

DAZ and SmithMicro will continue pumping out new versions of apps. DAZ will continue making stuff that folks will use - be it V4, Genesis, or whatever. SmithMicro will rely on DAZ and others for their content, thus their continued survival. Chris' venture may or may not pan out - depends on how well he and his team can build and market the thing(s) - IMHO, they have a solid team and a solid start - time will tell from there. 

Most importantly? All of these companies will continue talking to each other, laughing on the phone together, and overall working together to keep the community going ...in spite of its most vocal members. ;)

Agreed. However I found their initial marketing a bit suspect which makes me question if they will be good in that department. I mean first news of this figure appeared in the freebie section of the rendo forums. Seriously? If I wanted it to take off and generate initial interest, I would have contacted Rendo, RDNA, or even Daz3d, make a feature announcement to get proper exposure. But time will tell if they can market it right. After all, that is what breaks and makes a figure in this industry which determines if it becomes mainstream or remains a niche figure. Also how well they get a new site off the ground to reach mass appeal is no easy task. But let's wait and see. All I know is in order to do that costs a crap load of money. Forum posts aint enough.

Quote - Is HiveWire going to sell Dawn out of DAZ or Renderosity etc etc online stores that's allready up or are they going to make there own online store ?

Dawn will be free, at least at first.  She comes with textures, hair, poses, a bikini, and developer kits. 

They already have their own online store at HiveWire3D.com.  It is not open for business yet, but they have categories set up and everything (humans, animals, plants, etc.).  Looks like they are using the same store platform as DAZ (Magento or whatever it's called).

KenG (the songbird remix guy) has some info about it in a post at his site:

http://www.empken.com/SongbirdReMix/

He says there will be a rewards points system where purchases will earn you discounts off future purchases.  And that bundling will be different.  Unlike at most stores, if you already own something in a bundle, you can take it out and get a lower price. 

Ken has removed his birds from the DAZ store, and LisaB has removed her plants.  They will be sold from the HiveWire store instead.  (Ken says it will open July 1 - so that's probably around when Dawn will appear, too.)

People will also be able to submit products to be sold there, just like at Rosity and DAZ.  They are calling their merchants CAs instead of PAs: Contributing Artists.

I hope so. And I hope I'm wrong. I don't want to be right. I hope you're right instead. I wouldn't call it "hilarious," because it would be very sad if the worst did happen. There's nothing funny about businesses going under. But I've laid out the reasons it could happen. Everyone is free to do their own research, and I hope they do, and I encourage them to. But I would hold off laughing for now, until another year or so has passed. In the meantime, we all have to make decisions about where our time and energy is going to go, using the best information we have. Sarcasm won't help that effort.

Quote - Glitterati 3D(3D Artist/Modeler)—store on Renderosity and a larger store on RDNA—a variety of  textures and models

This is incorrect.  Whoever is the "originator" of this information needs to get it right - I have no products at RDNA.  I have exactly 1 product in the store here at Renderosity and multiple freebies available in freestuff.  That is all.

If these companies are so afraid or against the nude body... why are they even doing a human character for Poser in the first place.... the whole body should be available.. there are many user filters they could put on their website so people/educators/minors who don't need/want nudity wouldn't see those products or body parts.... let artists decide how to use the characters  we buy and quit pushing your morals on us. I just wish these companies were in Copenhagen or someplace where the human body is appreciated. 

Quote - If these companies are so afraid or against the nude body... why are they even doing a human character for Poser in the first place.... the whole body should be available.. there are many user filters they could put on their website so people/educators/minors who don't need/want nudity wouldn't see those products or body parts.... let artists decide how to use the characters  we buy and quit pushing your morals on us. I just wish these companies were in Copenhagen or someplace where the human body is appreciated. 

It is not their decision alone. It is sometimes the rules of investors and payment companies, so in most cases they have no choice unless they want to keep certain investors onboard.

Quote - > Quote - Glitterati 3D(3D Artist/Modeler)—store on Renderosity and a larger store on RDNA—a variety of  textures and models

This is incorrect.  Whoever is the "originator" of this information needs to get it right - I have no products at RDNA.  I have exactly 1 product in the store here at Renderosity and multiple freebies available in freestuff.  That is all.

Hi Glitterati,

Thank you for correcting me on this. It was a very  long and unwieldy list. I should have also mentioned that I am not an official anything for HiveWire3D, although I am an exited Poser artist who just wanted to share this info out as I am really looking forward to something new.

I was only preparing the list for people who might want to see what kind of support people had mentioned they would be willing to contribute, but be a little reluctant to wade throught pages and pages of text to know. Any future list I post will have that correction. Also, if for any reason, you prefer not to be on the list, please let me know as I do not wish to offend anyone with this.

Quote - > Quote - Here is a list of vendors and people involved in the Dawn project for those who have not had a chance to go through the now 24 pages of posts at the free stuff forum...

(snippety snip. Long, long, long list.)

 

I just finished spending two years researching a company before deciding to invest in it. (Not relevant which it is or anything, but the point is...) I learned the entire life story of the CEO, CFO, chief science officer, etc etc etc... history of the company... history of their research... anyway, it took two years.

Looking at that list, it takes two MINUTES to decide that if Daz were a public company, I would never even think about buying stock in it. Seeing that entire list, I'm even more convinced than before. I would run far, FAR away, and advise everyone else to do the same. It's not about the figures, but in the end, it would turn out the same way as if it were. V6 may be great, for all I know, but I don't think that people should invest in something that has a very good chance of being totally unsupported by the parent company within a year (along with everything else.) It's sad, but investors have to think about themselves, their time, their money, their energy, and their artistic effort.

ok, let's not get confuzzled here....

That list has nothing to do with DAZ, it's a new figure just coming out by a new company, made by people who have created Poserdom add on market and made it popular and lead it to it's hayday (before DAZ got all strange) - that's why so many people are excited.

Quote - There's nothing funny about businesses going under.

Oh I don't know... there's a few businesses whose demise I would greet news of with cheers and uproarious laughter (no, not in the Poser universe, either.)

Lookit... I've watched both of these businesses, and numerous others like them, for well over a decade now; sometimes closely, sometimes from a distance. 

Unless Smith Micro decides to sell off the Poser team/product, or DAZ implodes for some unforseen reason, both will be around comfortably for the next five years. Each can succeed or fail, but nothing that you or I say or do will make either outcome happen, for either company.

Quote - But I've laid out the reasons it could happen.

I subscribe to the Hottentot Invasion Theory, myself. ;)

Fact is, unless we see some solid analyst credentials? Your prediction is about as valid as mine, or that of my Dachshunds. But then, they're more interested in studying commodities - specifically Pork Bellies (but only after they're smoked and sliced thinly, then fried in a skillet).

Quote - Sarcasm won't help that effort.

Sarcasm is the best weapon there is - especially against the flood of drama queens (and worse) that infest the fora from time to time.

I mean, c'mon - this is the effing Internet! Ever since the dawn of Eternal September, there's been a never-ending flood of people who have soapboxes and aren't afraid to use them. Hell - myself included if it makes you feel better. 

Difference is, my biases are either known to all or disclosed up-front, and is based in experience both with it and under its hood. It's simply what I know best. It is not what I recommend for everyone. I also prefer to approach things with a bit of humor. The alternative would make the average person think about sucking on a revolver muzzle.

But then... that's life, isn't it? 

Rex,Rox's,G1,G2 All have Genitalia.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Glitterati 3D(3D Artist/Modeler)—store on Renderosity and a larger store on RDNA—a variety of  textures and models

This is incorrect.  Whoever is the "originator" of this information needs to get it right - I have no products at RDNA.  I have exactly 1 product in the store here at Renderosity and multiple freebies available in freestuff.  That is all.

Hi Glitterati,

Thank you for correcting me on this. It was a very  long and unwieldy list. I should have also mentioned that I am not an official anything for HiveWire3D, although I am an exited Poser artist who just wanted to share this info out as I am really looking forward to something new.

I was only preparing the list for people who might want to see what kind of support people had mentioned they would be willing to contribute, but be a little reluctant to wade throught pages and pages of text to know. Any future list I post will have that correction. Also, if for any reason, you prefer not to be on the list, please let me know as I do not wish to offend anyone with this.

No insult or upset taken.  I was just surprised by it and didn't want such a glaring error to be perpetuated.  I don't mind being ON the list, just correctly.  Thanks!

Quote - Rex,Rox's,G1,G2 All have Genitalia.

Just curious. Did Genesis come with genatalia on the base mesh? The only reason I'm asking is that Daz was usually fairly conservative about putting that on the base previously, such as V4 with  her painted on bikini.

Quote - Rex,Rox's,G1,G2 All have Genitalia.

Okay... so what? Mind you, this is a dirty old man asking you this.

I used to be among the first to demand that hey - maybe you should add/include genitals, damnit! However, I've learned a few things over the years...

warning - if you have kids watching, cover their eyes. I'll keep to the technical terminology, though.

If it has clothes on the crotch (see also the vast, vast, vast majority of renders outside of Renderotica), I usually have to hide the pubes and naughty bits to keep 'em from poking through the clothes. Even when the gens are built-in, most folks make the clothing with no regard for the existence of these bits, and usually they get it wrong (esp. for male meshes.) 

There's also the fact that because no two sets of penises/vaginas are alike, what's there is useless unless you work on it heavily because what morph dials exist for it are usually woefully inadequate for the job. And to top that off, a young man/woman has a far different-looking set than an old man/woman (e.g. an old man's ball sack will hang way lower than a young man's...)

Now get a good set of genital add-on kits, where the maker has taken its time to make it work, and work well? Now we're talking about a useful thing. 

Overall? Machts Nichts. If they're there, they're there. If not, I'm very sure someone will fill the gaps.

Quote - Just curious. Did Genesis come with genatalia on the base mesh? The only reason I'm asking is that Daz was usually fairly conservative about putting that on the base previously, such as V4 with  her painted on bikini.

It did not, you had to purchase a PRO-pack which came out some weeks later and was roughly $100 to get genitalia.
I'm not sure if that has changed by now, since I've been out of Genesis loop for about 10 months. 

DAZ Studio has what they call "Geo-Grafting"

More or less what LW,C4D etc etc calls "Boolean".
You mearge two meshes in to one mesh.no seems

So DAZ or anyone can merge Wings,Horns, and even Genitalia on the characters but you had to have the Genitalias mesh.

I've never gotten the propacks.My meshes have Genitalia I could GeoGraft my meshes on to Genesis if I wanted.

I have the basic M5,V5.
Anyways this is what I've been told. but not seen it for my self.

You can only get the Genitalia meshs in the M5,V5 Propacks.
V6 propack has the Genitalia also .I was told it's the same Genitalia mesh as V5's.

I think V5,V6 topolagy is only 2000 polygones diffrence anyways.

I have a question.
If you get the propack do you get two M5's,V5's
one with Genitalia ,one with out ?

It's difficult to read small print

Quote - DAZ Studio has what they call "Geo-Grafting"

 That's precisely why I left Poser for DazStudio ;)

Quote - So DAZ or anyone can merge Wings,Horns, and even Genitalia on the characters but you had to have the Genitalias mesh.

Or you can build some: I've done that to completely replace the hip part (and part of the legs too btw) of the genesis male character, so it will finally be anatomically exact (on both sides, if you see what I mean) :)