The vendors that are going to be "Poser only" are already Poser only.  The vendors that are going to be ds only, are already ds only.  What changed?  I have every version of Poser from P5 to PP2014, and a retiree on a fixed income isn't considered rich.  Not by a long shot.  The only one I don't have so far is P10, and I might add that at a later date, if, of course, the price is right. 

The split is already there, has been for a long time.  What I'm seeing here though, is vendors saying they might work with other vendors to make content for both. 

It's not Hivewire's place to make sure vendors treat each version equally, and that would require vendors that understand both and are willing to work in both.  It's in their interest to see that there is support for both, but they cannot and should not dictate that vendors must support both.  Request, okay, but also accept that some content will be available for one and not the other.  That already exists, it has for years, it won't ever go away.

Doric, TPO

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - So, it comes to the fact that if she is not Genesis, then she won't be wearing Genesis clothing.

 

Hi Richard, just wanted to clarify this statement. In the current version of DS if someone makes a genesis clone for autofit(in an oversimplified version that means basically smooshing Dawns mesh to the same size as genesis) she can wear all of the genesis clothing via autofit. Zigraphix showed how to create clones over in another forum for the DAZ Horse 2 using the lama morph for it.

So the technology is there and able to do it. My concern is that it may cause legal problems if it is done as a for sale product I'm not sure if it would infringe copyright or not. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I could comment.

cheers

 

Pen

Not sure if there are any legal ramifications on a shape.  It's the mesh that DAZ would have issues with and will take action on.  At one point I wanted to build a clone of Apollo Maximus so he could wear Genesis clothing and vice versa but .... I got busy with other projects.  No one came in and slapped my hand and told me "You can't do that for this or that reason....." 

Thanks RAM...that was my thoughts on it also but I wasn't 100% sure. If it was the shape it would impact on clothing makers also.

The people making Dawn are guys from the good old days of DAZ, when they were very popular and loved. These peiple have since left or were let go by DAZ (because of differences in where they wanted to see company go) and were replaced by new and improved executives, whom have their eye on something other then the community that made them succesful in the first place.

These guys were the part of the good old DAZ which understood the community.

**Anyway, back to Dawn, what should I make for her, any requests? **
 

High heel sneakers that lace up to the calf. :) I double dare you.

@ Pen.... Well if this brilliant team knows enough about the auto fit in DAZ Studio (I'm being silly, of course they do) then building a nice clone for the Auto Fit should be a breeze for them to include.  Now to make that happen in Poser is anyone's guess.  From what my understanding of Auto Fit is is that it was developed by EvilInnocence so if so then Andy might have some good tricks up his sleeve as I'm sure Phil C will too.  I'm not all that worried at this point. 

How about something nobody else is going to make, Conniekat.  A plain, everyday panties and bra.  Something normal women would wearl

Doric

Quote - How about something nobody else is going to make, Conniekat.  A plain, everyday panties and bra.  Something normal women would wearl

Like the ones I made for my welder girl maybe? I could convert those pretty quickly. 

Below is a pic of the welder girl undies on V4 (not Dawn), for possible conversion.

I like that top nicely done.

Quote - @ Pen.... Well if this brilliant team knows enough about the auto fit in DAZ Studio (I'm being silly, of course they do) then building a nice clone for the Auto Fit should be a breeze for them to include.  Now to make that happen in Poser is anyone's guess.  From what my understanding of Auto Fit is is that it was developed by EvilInnocence so if so then Andy might have some good tricks up his sleeve as I'm sure Phil C will too.  I'm not all that worried at this point. 

I hope so and I hope it works well for both Poser and DS.

Panties are okay, but the bra, I'm thinking plain old "Over the shoulder boulder holder", narrow straps that used to twist and the clasps used to slip.  (No, I'm not built for that, the "I" in Doric is silent, reflective of my gender.)  While nice, yours comes waaay to far down. 

OR maybe it was the "Double barrel slingshot for cannon balls.)

Doric.

edit: As I have to walk through the womens section of walmart to get to electronics, I still see them, like my wife use to wear.  The slit in front, if hers had that, it was time to toss it and go spend more money.

yea, I hear ya, the top is not really a bra, but a tanktop t-shirt :)

Since you mentioned everyday undies, I started wondering if those two pieces would be worth converting, or if I should start a new set.

Texture change on the panties to plain, unpatterned white cotton, make it easy on yourself.  Dutch Maid is pretty common here, but has to be ordered.  (Also something I don't do, no wife anymore, she's been gone 14 years now)  Her bra, I don't remember ever buying anything patterned, usually a plain white or sometimes a light color of one shade or another.  Just everyday stuff.

Doric.

Quote - yea, I hear ya, the top is not really a bra, but a tanktop t-shirt :)

Since you mentioned everyday undies, I started wondering if those two pieces would be worth converting, or if I should start a new set.

Personally I would love to see them converted they've always been one of my favorites. along with the overalls.

I'd also love to see your bootleggers and Zetta's converted.

Quote - > Quote - She looks wonderful.  I can hardly wait to get my grubby paws on her.

YOu keep your paws off her, she's MINE!

Doric.

No worries, a new one is made from the clone lab every time you click the download link. =P

Besides, the past is the past, and isn't the mantra now ... what if we could do this all over again and do it right.

The awareness that things were not always done in ways best for the entire Poser/DAZ community, and the willingness to try to provide a solution for both (and the willingness to listen and to communicate) is more impressive than the Dawn figure herself ... and she's pretty impressive.

If you've ever seen Mulan in Once Upon a Time, I wouldn't mind an outfit similar to hers.

Then too ... almost anything Regina wears when she's the Evil Queen would be cool if you'd rather do sexy.

Then again ... there are the Legend of the Seeker Mord Sith skin tight leather outfits.

What I really want is steampunk ... not the mostly skin and little cloth steampunk, but more in the lines of what you'd see on serious steampunkers.  Still ... there is a steampunk star wars princess leia illustration by Bjorn Hurri that's rather simple but eye catching.  Though I'd rather put my female in the hans solo or luke skywalker outfits :P  If we're going to be out there saving star worlds, a dress just doesn't make it.  

Bjorn Hurri has some amazing illustrations.  I'm not quite sure which of his steampunk star wars illustrations I like best, but Master Yoda may be it.  Pity Darth Vader isn't there!

Quote - The people making Dawn are guys from the good old days of DAZ, when they were very popular and loved. These peiple have since left or were let go by DAZ (because of differences in where they wanted to see company go) and were replaced by new and improved executives, whom have their eye on something other then the community that made them succesful in the first place.
These guys were the part of the good old DAZ which understood the community.

**Anyway, back to Dawn, what should I make for her, any requests? **
 

I love Bjorn Hurri's stuff, especially the steampunk princess Leia. If I didn't feel like a cheater and idea stealer I would totally make that. Maybe we can design something in the same or similar style.
I'm a steampunk fan myself :) 

Attached Link: Steampunk Ideas

Again, I'll give visuals to inspire.  This is just the first listing on google, searching for "steampunk pinterest."  Pinterest is my favorite go to these days...so many ideas!  Dani

I've never been a huge steampunk fan...  but I have to admit some of those superfluous knobs, buckles, belts & straps look pretty cool!

Don't get me wrong here, Dawn is really pretty and I am impatiently waiting for release. A pretty face but her body is a semi-toon. It is an impossible thin waist and a small hip. That what I was talking about, we go away from real models to fantasy shapes without seeing it. We end up in galleries filled with toony fairies and pixie shapes. For excample: I've never seen a healthy woman in my life , where the y-scale lenght of her head was more than her x-scale waist width. Try yourself. Pick out some beauties from some magazines and measure her proportions.It  s o.k. to do fantasy creatures, but I just see a problem here in how we look at woman and what Ideals we evolve. It's here in Poser and in real life too. The amount of cosmetic surgeries is increasing.

Quote - Don't get me wrong here, Dawn is really pretty and I am impatiently waiting for release. A pretty face but her body is a semi-toon. It is an impossible thin waist and a small hip. That what I was talking about, we go away from real models to fantasy shapes without seeing it. We end up in galleries filled with toony fairies and pixie shapes. For excample: I've never seen a healthy woman in my life , where the y-scale lenght of her head was more than her x-scale waist width. Try yourself. Pick out some beauties from some magazines and measure her proportions.It  s o.k. to do fantasy creatures, but I just see a problem here in how we look at woman and what Ideals we evolve. It's here in Poser and in real life too. The amount of cosmetic surgeries is increasing.

Are you refering to the Dawn render near the top of this page?  Or the one closer to the bottom showing the welder girl tank and panties?  I dont see what you see if you are looking at the Dawn render.  The welder girl one I could see your point, but you should realize that is v4 not dawn.  

Quote - Q: What are we allowed to use the Skin Map / Texture Resource Kit for?
A: This will have the normal licensing around it as other merchant resource kits do. If there are more questions around this, please post them again with specifics for us to address.

** **

Specific question: there are Merchant Ressource that are allowing freebies and others that don't allow freebies - what are we allowed to do with the Dawn texture ?

**
**

**
Another question: will there be a Tutorial Section at Hivewire3D to help people understand the different ways to create clothes and morphs and how to port them to the other software ?
**

haha... more of a Dieselpunk fan myself - The Rocketeer, Sky Captain & World of Tomorrow, Iron Sky, Sucker Punch, Dark City, Brazil, etc. ...Captain America opens it up to super heroes, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen bridges gap between steam & diesel.  Some bleed over into fantasy elements of Indiana Jones, King Kong etc etc

Attached Link: http://www.3d.sk/photos/showSet/id/319/thumb/small/page/1

Post Apocalyptica. I need elements from this genre to illustrate a friend's novel. Some grunge and fantasy costumes can be made to look post apocalypitca and props need to be rusted or bent. But I'm sure you get the picture.

The head waist proportions are valid with a bold head. That's why women have that lot's of hair on top. It increases optically the upper head size, that make them look younger and more slim.

A few new pages since I had sleep, but.....

It looks like the old Poser v Studio things appeared again.

This thread is not about that, it's about Dawn.

I don't care if X only works in Poser, or Y only works in Studio, development will comne from both sides. I'm not going to pressure people on either side to do anything they don't want to and no one else should. If they want to learn how to do things in Poser or Studio, then great, learning new things is great, but.....

People will think, all the time I'm learning to crawl in the other persons system, I could have done this and that in my own and moved on to X amount of projects.

So, as I said, I don't care who started the split in the community etc.

Nice to see the new renders of Dawn and I look forward to seeing her released, as are most people.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Dawns proportions are just fine, well within normal and healthy range for an active slightly sporty 20-30 year old female. Looks like she was modeled based on 8 head figurative canon (guideline.)

Yes yes, dieselpunk and post apo,, and fantasy genre are all very fun!!!!!

There's only one way to settle this.  Duel.  At the temple.  With swords.  Clothing optional.

Quote - > Quote - She looks wonderful.  I can hardly wait to get my grubby paws on her.

YOu keep your paws off her, she's MINE!

Doric.

Quote -
If you've ever seen Mulan in Once Upon a Time, I wouldn't mind an outfit similar to hers.

Then too ... almost anything Regina wears when she's the Evil Queen would be cool if you'd rather do sexy.

Then again ... there are the Legend of the Seeker Mord Sith skin tight leather outfits.

What I really want is steampunk ... not the mostly skin and little cloth steampunk, but more in the lines of what you'd see on serious steampunkers.  Still ... there is a steampunk star wars princess leia illustration by Bjorn Hurri that's rather simple but eye catching.  Though I'd rather put my female in the hans solo or luke skywalker outfits :P  If we're going to be out there saving star worlds, a dress just doesn't make it.  

**Anyway, back to Dawn, what should I make for her, any requests? **
 

Yes to everything fantasy!!! I love the steampunk idea too. It is one of my new favoirite "theme/Genre" styles.

Oh, I like that female Avator outfit with the four huge buttons on the front.  I've always been sad that the Desolation Earth/Daedalus and Rudi outfits were never recreated for V4.

I wouldn't expect an exact recreation of the steampunk princess Leia.  For one, I'm not exactly crazy about the 'chaps' over the dress.  And ... I'd prefer billowy pants rather than a dress.  After all, a dress is so restrictive when one is out to save the worlds.

Ack!  Look at the time.  I'm going to be late for work.  

More later.

Quote - I love Bjorn Hurri's stuff, especially the steampunk princess Leia. If I didn't feel like a cheater and idea stealer I would totally make that. Maybe we can design something in the same or similar style.
I'm a steampunk fan myself :) 

TBH, I was built very much like Dawn in my younger days (except I had shorter legs and more, um...ample thighs...lol.) But my waist was tiny...not even 20" and was disproportionally small in comparrisons to my extremely large, erm, booty ;).

I don't see anything wrong with her shape. At all. In fact, I think it's quite nice. If we go by mistakes of the past (and I'm not saying they were right, just saying they exist), and we go by a more "realistic" shape like Antonia...well, they get ignored. Apparently the majority doesn't want "ordinary", they want "extraordinary". Since this is all fantasy we're engaging in, why should it be anything else? (tho I still say Dawn has a lovely, entirely realistic shape). Actually, she's the most "believeable" shape to come out in years IMVHO. Have we forgotten Vicky's stilts (legs)? V3's backhoe hips? The point is, you can make her however ya want her..that's why we have morphs ;).

Laurie

I am sure that I will have to end up findingthis from the other sites that are more specialised for this but what about fetish gear? Ballet boots and high heels as well as lingerie she mihgt enjoy owning.

Don't think they'll be making that as they're trying to aim for an education market as well as the Poser/DSverse ;).

Laurie

Quote - Don't think they'll be making that as they're trying to aim for an education market as well as the Poser/DSverse ;).

Laurie

That is true of the base figure but everyone was asking what they would like to see made by creators supporting Dawn, my roots in 3D started as a fetish artist and although I have branched out into other areas they are still firmly planted there. I would also like to see some Sci-Fi stuff as well...Space suits, uniforms and props as well as poses that would allow her and her eventual male counterpart to use all of the equipment and vehicles that are currently available.

Oh, well if it isn't at Hivewire, but rather at other stores then I'm SURE it'll be made. LOL.

Laurie

"Have we forgotten Vicky's stilts (legs)? V3's backhoe hips?"

Don't you dare say anything against V3 !!!   :-(

She can be anything with just a bit of dial spinning and some scaling.

(Took me 20 minutes to morph V3WM into "Dawn". No custom morphs.)

:-)

And no, Dawn isn't even remotely "realistic".

Not if you define "realistic" as "Has the exact shape and dimensions of an actual human being".

But yes, she is "less stylized" than V3, V4, V5 or V6 are in their default shapes.

So it should be quite easy to change her from an "idealised" shape into a truly "realistic" one.

While I'd rather see a Poser figure that has a 100% "photorealistic" default shape (Like MIKI 1 for example), now that Poser has animateable joint centers and properly working scaling, the default shape of a figure really doesn't matter all that much anymore.

And I'm well aware that the masses prefer the "impossible" beauty of photoshopped magazine covers, so that's what sells and that's what's being made.

I'm not really happy about that, but as Poser gives me all the tools to do what I want with a figure, it's not the end of the world, either.

I just ask to not muddle the definition of "realistic".

If you laser scan a human being and use that scan to make a Poser figure, that's realistic.

Or if you sculpt manually but slavishly stick to the human reference.

But if you "design" your own shape, change a little here, improve a little there, that's not "realistic" any more. That's stylized.

Nothing wrong with stylized for those who like it.

Just don't claim it's "realistic".

Her shape looks fine to me.  :-)  Anyway, the base Dawn will be morphed and stretched, and eventually will look like every woman-type between Dolly Parton and Miley Cyrus.  (Should I not use names?  Fine time to ask.)

As for content -- hair with lots of shading options!  And good skin textures.  :-)  Steampunk for clothing, but that's one thing I'm looking forward to making myself -- clothing.

And since Dawn is new, I sincerely hope there'll be plenty of room for full time vendors, part-time vendors, and freebie makers, without anyone stepping on anyone else's toes.

So when she's ready -- bring on the Dawn!

Edit:  meatsim, I wasn't sure about the back to back posts, so I apologized, just in case.  :-)))

Not all women have the same body shape. Dawn is somewhere between a hourglass and triangle shape. I've absolutely seen women with similar proportions albeit normally with wider hips. Antonia is more of a ruler shape (also sometimes called "banana").

Read this:  http://www.womansmagazine.net/how-to-test-your-body-shape.html

This is handy: http://ninasquirrelly.deviantart.com/art/12-realistic-woman-body-shape-chart-301110737

Do a search on Google or Bing for "hourglass figure" or "narrow waist" and you'll find real women with hourglass shapes (not all are Photoshopped). Some are subtle; some are more extreme.

Example:

http://www.fashionz.co.nz/images/stories/Advice/styledoctor/hourglass-figure.jpg

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=hourglass+figure&qpvt=hourglass+figure&FORM=IGRE

I actually had an acquaintance about 10 years ago who had a severe hourglass figure. The lower part of her rib cage came in so severely that it was causing her medical issues. As she had gotten older (read: late 20s), it had become more of an issue. She elected to have surgery to widen it slightly.

Will content sold at Hivewire be excusive or can they be sold at multiple stores?

Listening to the "realistic" vs. "toon-shape" debate, and I have to tell you guys something. I'm a security guard and just spent last night guarding a Clothing store in a local mall.

I got a lot of great ideas that I'm going to go home and knock out for my Poser figures, which unfortunately, doesn't include Dawn at the moment, but  I have to say that I was looking at the mannequins wearing the clothes and wondering to myself, "Are there really full grown women who can fit into something that small and thin?" Heck, I know preteens who couldn't get into some of those clothes.

Well, for what it is worth, I need normal clothing.  Don't have any use for fantasy or hookerware.

Contemporary clothing is what I am looking for.

I used to know a girl that was a size zero, so yes - there are. LOL

Laurie

The images of Dawn looks great and I can't wait for the actual figure to be released.

The discussion about body shape and 'realism' etc are quite interesting. But a thought suddenly struck me..

How come most of the Female figures are created by men, curious no..??????

S.K.

Quote - Specific question: there are Merchant Ressource that are allowing freebies and others that don't allow freebies - what are we allowed to do with the Dawn texture ?

The resource kit / texture that comes with Dawn will be available for merchants to use to create "for-sale" products, but not freebies, as we want to help protect those merchants who do decide to support her. We'll most likely release a different resource kit for freebies down the road.

Quote - Another question: will there be a Tutorial Section at Hivewire3D to help people understand the different ways to create clothes and morphs and how to port them to the other software ?

Yes! We plan on creating several, and hopefully working with community members to create more, as well as linking to others from throughout the community over time.

The question is, as long as you can't give proof that a certain exact shape exists in the real world, you can't claim it's "realistic".

Yes, that's a very narrow definition of "realism", but now that photomanipulation is so rampant everywhere, I think it's necessary to use very strict definitions.

How else would you distinguish between an undoctored photograph of a human being and one that was "improved" via photoshop ?

It's still a photograph of a human, but is it still "realistic" ?

Reality is just what it is, not what we want it to be.

So if you want me to accept something as "real" you have to proof it to me.

If I build a scale model, I have to provide photographs and blueprints before I can claim it's "realistic". Otherwise, my fellow modelers will dismiss my work as "fantasy" or "guesswork".

I don't have a problem with Dawn looking like she does. It's a bit boring to have just another "hawt" girl, but that's just my personal taste.

But unless proven otherwise, I won't accept her shape to be "realistic".

Of course that will change nothing in the grand scheme of things.

The folks photoshopping people for magazine covers will still insist that they just "improve things a bit" and that their work is 100% perfectly "realistic".

My point is just:

I see what you're doing and I don't fall for it.

That's all.

Don't take this as criticism at Dawn.

Not sure if "more of the same" can actually break V4's current reign.

I do hope so, though.

:-)

Quote - The images of Dawn looks great and I can't wait for the actual figure to be released.

The discussion about body shape and 'realism' etc are quite interesting. But a thought suddenly struck me..

How come most of the Female figures are created by men, curious no..??????

S.K.

 

All females are created by men.

And by that I mean that it's men who determine the gender.

Are we there yet????

lol, been watching this from the beginning, and I cannot wait for Dawn to go live.

Thanks to the HiveWire team and all the vendors offering support. Exciting times.

(Finds it intriguing that the women are arguing that the shape is plausible and the men are arguing that it's not)

Not all men are arguing, some of us are just waiting for Dawn to appear.

Realistic is as real as you want it to be, we are working in a 3D world, where anything is possible.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Thanks for the update about using the resource skin, as long as one for freebie makers comes along later, that's fine by me.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG