I like messing with CGI App's.
I've messed with just about all of them.
Over the years I've accumulated a colletion of CGI App's.
If I here about a new one I miss with that also.

What I look for in a CGI app.
Fourms ,Tutorails etc etc.Lots & lots & lots of help ,I need all the help I can get.
No matter the CGI App .If ya can't use it ,it's worthless.

Diffrent App's are better at diffrent things.
Some just click better with ya then others.

I've been in CGI for 15 Years.
I get bored working in the same CGI App all the time so I use diffrent CGI App's.

Quote - Yes, we won't be releasing XD support for Dawn until she is released to the public, so Universal Clothing won't work for her until then.

You do need to make sure that XD is updated to the very latest version in order for Universal Clothing to work.  There are updates needed for every figure to make them recognizable by the plugin, so when you run the XD Updater, make sure you also update all figures you have installed as well as the program.

I can't wait for this 1-gonna save up for it:) Are you going to make a morph pack for adding morphs to clothes when her morphs are released?

Quote - I love the mesh, the joints and the modelling but why has she got red legs when the rest of her is not so red. I have looked at many a leg in my time and I have never seen a person's legs so red compared with the rest of the body. This is pet peeve of mine and I would prefer to have a more realistic skin from the get go.

Not uncommon; check out the promo pic on this merchant resource... 

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/dr2-v4/74844

Quote - How to find out about the proportions of her hand. Could somebody who has her pose her so that the heel of her hand is at her chin, fingers pointing upward. They should just touch the hairline, or a little bit lower on her forehead.

...  

I have big hands and my fingers reach a bit above my eyebrows...

I must have a small face and big hands... my middle finger almost touches my hairline, it's about quarter to half an inch shy of getting there.

Quote -
These.. make these!! Or I could almost be persuaded to try these.. I wonder if the buckles and straps would be problematic when the shoe needs to bend?

Those look very similar to "Treadz"

Quote - I must have a small face and big hands... my middle finger almost touches my hairline, it's about quarter to half an inch shy of getting there.

You're just artistically perfect! Like me ;)

I've seen enough rendering of what Dawn is.  I want to see what Dawn can become.  Bring on the character morphs!

meatSim, Nice work!

I appreciate your efforts at least one person who take his art seriously. Most of the Dawn entries are just dodling and endless discussions of unimportant bagatelles.

I want to know how Latexluv made her fabulous rendering the reason for the level of redness on the legs is not interesting. I am beginning to understand why there are so many naked vickys and so little art in the Poser gallery.

Quote - meatSim, Nice work!

I appreciate your efforts at least one person who take his art seriously. Most of the Dawn entries are just dodling and endless discussions of unimportant bagatelles.

I want to know how Latexluv made her fabulous rendering the reason for the level of redness on the legs is not interesting. I am beginning to understand why there are so many naked vickys and so little art in the Poser gallery.

Thanks

I appreciate the compliment.. though this is honestly as close to a 'make art button' render as I have done in a while!!  BB environment sphere for lighting, very slight pose adjustment and a pair of glasses I made ages ago.. everything else is out of the box!!

"though this is honestly as close to a 'make art button' render as I have done in a while!!  BB environment sphere for lighting, very slight pose adjustment and a pair of glasses I made ages ago.. everything else is out of the box!!"

if you say so but everything is relative..

Quote - I appreciate your efforts at least one person who take his art seriously. Most of the Dawn entries are just dodling and endless discussions of unimportant bagatelles.

My wife is going to kill me if she finds out I've been dodling Dawn...

Quote - randym said > Quote - I think the proportions of hand and fingers are fine.  The palm is about as long as the fingers, which is average.

The female ideal is to have longer fingers, of course, so her hand may look stubby for a glamor girl.  I think it's fine for an ordinary woman.

Would like to see a few more renders of her hand and wrist.  Maybe one of the hand upright and straight, sorta like a Vulcan salute?

I agree.  Such to-do about the length of a hand! Not everyone is the same size/shape.  My longest (middle) finger comes to the top of my eyebrow when I pose like that.  And can people please try to remember that this is OUT OF THE BOX.  There are no morph packs yet, which will, I'm sure, allow lots of changes.

Personally, I'm enjoying ALL the renders.  Thanks to each and every person who has spent their time and effort to create them.

Not a great render, but Live long and prosper, Dawn!

Looks to me like the palm is too square.  The hand and fingers should be a little longer.  Also, the wrist is too wide for the width of the hand.  This problem can be addressed with hand/finger morphs and scaling (as in Genesis).  However, it is important get things right "out of the box", as morphing and scaling the hands will require the adjustment of hand poses, which is a major pain.

A lot of non-glamour "girls" have pretty hands!!

vintorix said

Quote - meatSim, Nice work!

I appreciate your efforts at least one person who take his art seriously. Most of the Dawn entries are just dodling and endless discussions of unimportant bagatelles.

That is an INCREDIBLY rude comment (and not the first you've made in this vein - you commented that LatexLux's was the only decent render posted or something like that).  Just because YOU don't like the things most of us are creating doesn't mean we don't take our art seriously or that we're just "dodling"  (whatever that means).

nakamuram said > Quote - Looks to me like the palm is too square.  The hand and fingers should be a little longer.  Also, the wrist is too wide for the width of the hand.  This problem can be addressed with hand/finger morphs and scaling (as in Genesis).  However, it is important get things right "out of the box", as morphing and scaling the hands will require the adjustment of hand poses, which is a major pain.

A lot of non-glamour "girls" have pretty hands!!

 

And a lot of women (like me) have more square palms and even shorter and stubbier hands than Dawn's. So how is her palm too square and her fingers and hand too short?  Too sqare for what?  Too short for what?

Just so you all know, my short hands work perfectly - they may not be long and slender like someone's ideal of a hand, but they do all the things they need to just fine :)

I'm really not trying to pick on you in particular, but I just am not getting why people keep picking at certain things they say "aren't right" and "should be different".  I can CERTAINLY understand that people PREFER a certain look over another, but what makes any of us the judge and jury on what this character should look like out of the box other than the people who created her?  Yes, if things are such that they are not accurate as to the human form, I can understand comments that she shouldn't look like that.  But women come in all shapes and sizes.  This is Dawn's shape and size, people will create morphs that change her into all sorts of other shapes and sizes, so what is the big deal?

I appreciate all of the "doodling."  It gives those of us who don't have Dawn a good evaluation preview that we can comment and give the developers feedback on.

Serious (and not-so-Serious) Art belongs in the galleries.

Quote - nakamuram said > Quote - Looks to me like the palm is too square.  The hand and fingers should be a little longer.  Also, the wrist is too wide for the width of the hand.  This problem can be addressed with hand/finger morphs and scaling (as in Genesis).  However, it is important get things right "out of the box", as morphing and scaling the hands will require the adjustment of hand poses, which is a major pain.

A lot of non-glamour "girls" have pretty hands!!

 

And a lot of women (like me) have more square palms and even shorter and stubbier hands than Dawn's. So how is her palm too square and her fingers and hand too short?  Too sqare for what?  Too short for what?

Just so you all know, my short hands work perfectly - they may not be long and slender like someone's ideal of a hand, but they do all the things they need to just fine :)

I'm really not trying to pick on you in particular, but I just am not getting why people keep picking at certain things they say "aren't right" and "should be different".  I can CERTAINLY understand that people PREFER a certain look over another, but what makes any of us the judge and jury on what this character should look like out of the box other than the people who created her?  Yes, if things are such that they are not accurate as to the human form, I can understand comments that she shouldn't look like that.  But women come in all shapes and sizes.  This is Dawn's shape and size, people will create morphs that change her into all sorts of other shapes and sizes, so what is the big deal?

Dawn's hand is squarer than mine, and her wrist is thicker than mine (in porportion to the hand).  The "problem" is that I am a man!!  And being a man, am heavily biased towards glamour girls.

Dawn's creators need our feedback so, like a good customer -- I am giving them my opinion.   The more people they make happy, the more impact they will have on the marketplace.   I'll accept their final design, but we do need to give them our opinions.

My goodness, I see the anatomy experts have arrived.

kitteh grabs popcorn and gets comfortable

nakamuram said > Quote -

Dawn's hand is squarer than mine, and her wrist is thicker than mine (in porportion to the hand).  The "problem" is that I am a man!!  And being a man, am heavily biased towards glamour girls. Dawn's creators need our feedback so, like a good customer -- I am giving them my opinion.   The more people they make happy, the more impact they will have on the marketplace.   I'll accept their final design, but we do need to give them our opinions.

Yes, I do agree that giving opinions is important, and I do understand, as I said, people preferring a certain "look" both in real people and digital ones :)  Perhaps my quibble is more with wording - comments that "her hands are too square" vs "I would prefer to see hands that are less square". 

The first indicates (to me) that the person commenting feels there is something wrong with square hands, while the second indicates (to me) a preference.  Hopefully that makes sense :)

Sorry peeps! I had to go to the hospital today with my roommate. She had chest pains and you should always run to emergency when that happens. But it, thankfully wasn't heart problems! Did you know that your esophogus can get a nerve cramp in it???? Yep, that's what the doctor believed it to be because all other tests were totally negative. Gave her this goop with litocane in it to drink and it has stopped.

Give me a few minutes for a proper reply.

Just noticed the anotomy experts, BadKitten?  I think we've been around forever...

Ok, Alisa.  I will try to be less "heavy handed."  I'll probably fail, though.

I must have short fingers-or a LONG face then! I'm in similar proportion to Dawn. Where do you get your stats on finger/facelength?

Quote - Normally the length of a hand is about the same as the length of the face. Dawn's looks quite short of that. So I think the shortness of her hands is one of the things that's been bothering me in the renders, but also the wrists that are an odd shape.

Quote - Sorry peeps! I had to go to the hospital today with my roommate. She had chest pains and you should always run to emergency when that happens. But it, thankfully wasn't heart problems! Did you know that your esophogus can get a nerve cramp in it???? Yep, that's what the doctor believed it to be because all other tests were totally negative. Gave her this goop with litocane in it to drink and it has stopped.

Yikes - glad she's ok.  What a scare!!  Your render WAS lovely, by the way :)

Quote - Ok, Alisa.  I will try to be less "heavy handed."  I'll probably fail, though.

lol :)

Sounds like my hands are more masculine than yours, just like Dawn's.

And ... I'm a woman!

I keep looking at Dawn's hands and wrist and comparing them to mine, and I can't figure out why her hands and wrist look off ... when both her hands and wrist look like mine.  Could it be that we've come to associate the model hands of certain other figures as the way it should be?

Still ... I like Dawn.  And I don't see anything about the base figure that changes my opinion that this is the V4/Genesis killer for me.  Pretty cool that Poser users get a figure that's even better than the Gs and Vs.

Quote - Dawn's hand is squarer than mine, and her wrist is thicker than mine (in porportion to the hand).  The "problem" is that I am a man!!  And being a man, am heavily biased towards glamour girls.Dawn's creators need our feedback so, like a good customer -- I am giving them my opinion.   The more people they make happy, the more impact they will have on the marketplace.   I'll accept their final design, but we do need to give them our opinions.

Face length is a very genral approximation of a hand size used when teaching figure drawing students about human proportions. Lot of new students will make  sizeable proportion errors while learning... and make hands and feet twice or half the size they are on the average. To quickly and relatively simply get them back in a ballpark, they are often prompted to compare lengths of hands and feet to head and face. These things are loose guidelines to prevent gross errors in figure proportions, and not something meant to be very exact.

Quote - meatSim, Nice work!

I appreciate your efforts at least one person who take his art seriously. Most of the Dawn entries are just dodling and endless discussions of unimportant bagatelles.

I want to know how Latexluv made her fabulous rendering the reason for the level of redness on the legs is not interesting. I am beginning to understand why there are so many naked vickys and so little art in the Poser gallery.

You make one nice comment then bag the rest of the images of Dawn here I would say that was very rude. I would think that those who have posted renders of Dawn are doing so to show others what to expect of her.  They could have not posted anything and then no one whould know.

And your last comment bagging what is in the Poser gallery very rude indeed.

Quote - Face length is a very genral approximation of a hand size used when teaching figure drawing students about human proportions. Lot of new students will make  sizeable proportion errors while learning... and make hands and feet twice or half the size they are on the average. To quickly and relatively simply get them back in a ballpark, they are often prompted to compare lengths of hands and feet to head and face. These things are loose guidelines to prevent gross errors in figure proportions, and not something meant to be very exact.

We evovled that way -- Those who could not cover their faces to hide their embarrassment went extinct.  To be fair, there are those who would argue that a supreme being created us that way, for exactly the same reason.

Good Kitteh!

So it may be that this "rule of thumb" is not based in statistical analysis of the hand/face length ratio of Homo Sapiens? :-)

Eric

Quote - Face length is a very genral approximation of a hand size used when teaching figure drawing students about human proportions. Lot of new students will make  sizeable proportion errors while learning... and make hands and feet twice or half the size they are on the average. To quickly and relatively simply get them back in a ballpark, they are often prompted to compare lengths of hands and feet to head and face. These things are loose guidelines to prevent gross errors in figure proportions, and not something meant to be very exact.

Latexluv, I love you

There's actual human Ratios.

There's the golden main.

There's comic book Ratio's that Poser n DAZ Follow.

You can morph the hands ,fingers ,wrist any way you want.

Don't need a 100 post telling vintorix about he's behavior ,he knows.

"Don't need a 100 post telling vintorix about he's behavior ,he knows."

Sorry RorrKonn, when people began to talk about the red in the legs instead of Latexluv's fabulous render (in addition to the ridiculous bickering about the hands) I had enough.-

Quote - Good Kitteh!

So it may be that this "rule of thumb" is not based in statistical analysis of the hand/face length ratio of Homo Sapiens? :-)

Eric

It's possible that something more precise exists in the fields of biometrics or forensic anatomy. With respect to artistic anatomy, which ive ben studying a lot of for past 2-3 years, these things are just guidelines to get you in the ballpark and to start developing the sensitivity to notice, and draw, the individualized variations. Im pretty confident that in this conversation, focus is on art :-)

Quote - Don't need a 100 post telling vintorix about he's behavior ,he knows.

Noooo, I was just starting to have fun spanking him!  sniffle killjoy

Quote - I love the mesh, the joints and the modelling but why has she got red legs when the rest of her is not so red. I have looked at many a leg in my time and I have never seen a person's legs so red compared with the rest of the body. This is pet peeve of mine and I would prefer to have a more realistic skin from the get go.

Otherwise she is bang on. Good job.

Another explanation I have heard - the model shaved her legs before the photo shoots.

Quote - I must have a small face and big hands... my middle finger almost touches my hairline, it's about quarter to half an inch shy of getting there.

Mine too ... and my face is quite long ...

Edited to add: sorry, it was me who started that hand/face proportions discussion. I had learned that in art class as a relative measure and when somebody said he/she thinks her hands are too small, I asked for a render with that pose. Relative - not as an exact everybody has to look like that.

I think the size of Dawns hands is fine.

I still think that compared to her elbow/shoulders the wrist is missing the bone details.

Half an inch is a huge distance on a face. Most of us are programmed to notice much more subtle variations, some people do it consciously, other more subconsciously.

I finally made it to the end!  Wow...  I'm enjoying what I'm seeing, but I definitely want to see more morph and characters as well as more original clothing.  (A full-coverage leather armor set like some of Xurge's wouldn't go amiss...)

BadKittehCo! Are you going to put out Welder Girl for Dawn?  I've been hoping it'd be available again some day, and it'd be great on Dawn.

In re: Dawn's bends, I admit that the inner elbow bend hasn't looked right to me on any of the renders; it's like her bicep goes too far and has to be cut too quickly down into the elbow area.

But in general it's a stellar figure, and the minor issues are thoroughly overwhelmed by the potential of it bringing folks back together.  My fear is still strong that partisans will continue to only produce content for their platform, but I'm hoping to see Hivewire3D make it easy and more rewarding for CA's to produce content for both, thus establishing a community expectation that content is portable.

i am a DAZ Studio user, and deeply invested in Genesis (and a happy G2F user), so I'm not hurting for characters, clothing, etc., that use modern capabilities, but the bickering and bad blood this last while has always bothered me.  I'm happy to see someone taking positive and powerful steps to fix it.

-- Morgan

Hi all, I think I proved that it cold be lights that make Dawn's legs appear slightly red.

Can others please check that out.

As to renders, those of us that are producing renders are doing a fine job, I don't single out anyone, all are of use.

Keep them coming, in whatever format. The more renders, the better for when she is launched.

If you need renders of certain things, then ask. Somethings we can do and discuss, other things we cannot do due to NDA's.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I think she has red legs and some lights are glossing over that (you could look in the runtime/Textures folder) - but it's not a dealbreaker. Either put some trousers on her or render portraits (that smile of hers is infecting) and to tell the truth: after her first appearance on stage - how many people are going to use the default texture?

Occasionally you see stunning renders in max or Maya but the people in the Poser forum says, "that is professional tools you cannot expect performance like that from little Poser, a hobbyist tool!" It is soo satisfying to see a Poser user demonstrate that the tool is not at fault.

Makeup and hair colours are going well together!

I think the make-ups are ok, ideal for cat-walk and fashion presentations. I like #2 best, more subtile.  But you shouldn't hang up yourself on one particular make up. When you publish the material just make a lot of different makeups. The important thing is that you have an amazing "au naturel" version, surpassing 90 % of whats out there Max&Maya not exempted. With this base you can do what you want. Or we, your future customers can make variations. As long as the ground is solid.

Quote - Occasionally you see stunning renders in max or Maya but the people in the Poser forum says, "that is professional tools you cannot expect performance like that from little Poser, a hobbyist tool!" It is soo satisfying to see a Poser user demonstrate that the tool is not at fault.

There are definite differences in the rendering engines between Poser/DS and the industrial standards.  This is not to say that good renderings are not possible in Poser/DS, but they require so much more work in the ways of texturing and lighting to achieve.  It's not all a matter of artistic ability, the tools do play a part in the difference.

I suspect it may be EZSkin that's causing the red legs... The reason is that those of us who used it have renders with redder legs...all my lights were white, so that blows the light theory ;). I always use white lights. That leaves EZSkin, because those using Dawn's default SSS textures don't have red legs.

Laurie