I think that should have been Dawn content made in Studio as the original mesh of Dawn was made in Modo.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - > Quote - There has been an outpouring of positive.    Dawn has us all waiting with open arms and runtimes!

Speak for yourself Jan, as a DS user I don't want her, and it's not because of that pedo's wet dream that comes with DS, but rather from the massive headache she's going to cause for us, that and the flak Hivewire and the vendors are going to get for the lack of compatible content for the DS version.

You see unlike most of the people here I know what is required to get content working with a Tri-Ax figure, if the content isn't made in DS and then exported to Poser but rather made in Poser, then it's completely fucking useless to us.

The teams hopes for Dawn are that she will unite the community, the only way that will happen is if all of her content works out of the box in both DS & Poser, and for that to happen all of it will have to be created in DS and then exported for Poser.

Hmmm, you sound....pissed.

I look at this way...DS users have Genesis. Poser users have SM (not exactly an ideal situation judging by the "quality" of the standard Poser figures up until now). Even if the bulk of Dawn's users are Poser users, Hivewire will still make plenty of cash ;). There's a lot of us....

It seems, if you can judge by this thread, that there will be DS users using her as well. All good, if ya ask me...

Laurie

Bejaymac "unlike most of the people here I know what is required to get content working with a Tri-Ax figure"

Show us something you have done so perhaps we will take you seriously.

Well - looks like I am putting more faith in the CAs, PAs whatever you will call them. Raw does know how to work with Poser too - so he can fix those cr2 exporter scaling issues.

Richard: Bejaymac is just pessimistic (and considering the history of Poser users looking down at DS users ...). What about instead of kicking him trying to lift his mood?

And I do love my Wacom tablet. ;)

Yep, agree with, vintorix, maybe not in the same words. Lol.

I have mentioned in a previous post that it is easy for people to say they can do this or that, but when it comes down to it, they just dissapear in silence.

I have seen a lot of nice things appearing for Dawn, people trying things out of for others. An example is the answer to the Autofit option in Studio. Yep, it does appear to work.

Content people are asking for info to convert things to other systems etc.

I admire those that go out of their way to take something and run with it, experiment with it etc.

Those that just want to do silly remarks, well, you will still download her as she will be free at the time of her launch.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Vintorix: Bejaymac is writing very, very helpful answers to creation problems in DS in the Dazforums. He does know a lot about DS.

What's broken about scaling?  It seems to work fine...

Edit oops; forgot the nudity tag....

Hi Kerya, I would try to lift their mood, but they already seem to have made their mind up before getting her.

People who know me, know my reputation with a certain company, not getting into that, but even I have put all that away for this project.

I want BOTH sides to be able to use Dawn, but.....

I want those people to actually get her before they start making certain comments.

It's like me saying I'm not going to use Victoria 8 when she appears in the future. You cannot make statements like that without actually having the thing and using it in the first place.

I know it's frustrating for those that are having to wait for her public release, and I know people want to know certain things thatcannot be given yet due to NDA's, but it is just a matter of time for the launch.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The thing about a certain sites forum is that no one can get info there as when things are posted they are deleted straight away.

At least here and on other forums people can talk about Dawn.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I think it's unfair to write-off Dawn before even trying her out.

Yes, most of the buzz is coming from Poser & V4 users, and I can understand why they're doing flips & twists at the prospect of a smoothly fuctioning figure that does not require DSON complications.

Even so, the brutal truth is that Victoria 6 is the new standard in DAZ Studio (assuming DSON is a no-go for most Poser users).  It's all very well comparing Dawn to V4 and being "amazed" - but it's a much harder sell when comparing to V6 - Dawn certainly doesn't look bad, but doesn't yet appear to offer anything that V6 doesn't already offer.

But having said that, there's nothing to lose in giving Dawn a try as she'll initially be free anyway.

Preview & WIP renders will never tell us the whole story.  It's only when we've got Dawn and V6 side-by-side that we can compare the merits of each.  Then it's a case of adopting which products will best suit our individual needs and preferences.

Thanks for showing that WandW, that's what I like to see, a quick answer to a question.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - > Quote - Except that without the DSON tools it's going to be an issue getting them to working in Poser via PMD and with scaling broken in the CR2 exporter, scaling morphs would have to be done manually in Poser... not sure how that can be done to Dawn in Poser and have the morph and ERCs  proprogate in existing clothing for people running the non-pro versions.

 

What's broken about scaling?  It seems to work fine...

 

Edit oops; forgot the nudity tag....

Mr Hyde has adjustable rigging to get around scaling issues. The short shapes in my products are adjustable rigged to get around scaling issues with DSON in Poser.

Scaling is broken in the exporter and in the DSON importer. I have a ticket in for it from the last few months.

99 % of all content work is done outside Poser/Daz. In Modo or another modeler. The lasts bits has to be done individually with both Poser and Daz, if correctly prepared it takes only a few seconds.  No need for DSON or import back and forth. The final work is native to both.

Yes, Richard, I do remember your words about Daz and Dazstudio ... :(

Anyway:

This thread has 104 pages now and I read them all. Newcomers can't be expected to read through all of that without getting glazed eyes.

So I added just the information of an artist who for sure is able to produce for both platforms to reassure Bejaymac that there will be content for Dawn that works in DS.

I think that is more helpful than just telling people: she will be free, so I am sure you will get her.

(Just try to imagine somebody told you before this Dawn of the new day that DS is free and you will sure get it, just because it is free - I don't think you would have listened)

Well, it may be Poser users etc. posting, but we are seeing some amazing renders from Studio users.

No one can say that the HiveWire3D team hasn't listened to everyone who has made a comment, they have.

Once Dawn appears then it's up to the users to make of her what they will, but at least wait till she is launched before writing her off.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - 99 % of all content work is done outside Poser/Daz. In Modo or another modeler. The lasts bits has to be done individually with both Poser and Daz, if correctly prepared it takes only a few seconds.  No need for DSON or import back and forth. The final work is native to both.

The few seconds may - just may - be true for morphs and creating pmd/ morph data. I don't think that a clothing, even when it is modeled in an outside software, will be as easy to rig and make work in both applications. I wouldn't underrate the work the artists are doing.

I have DS, if it's free then I like it. Lol.

With Dawn now out to certain people I stopped doing updates as Dawn is set now as far as I know.

Things may still change before she is launched.

But why write something off before you even have it? Makes no sense, get it, make your own mind up, then decide wether to use or not.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Nobody is saying they will not download her because she isn't good enough, it is just a pessimistic outlook at the future of DS content for her.

The one thing I'm waiting for is the tutorials that were mentioned about rigging. Until I have those I can't comment on what will or won't be a problem for rigging.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - I have DS, if it's free then I like it. Lol.

...

Now.

I do remember your condescending words to DS users in another forum, which I stopped visiting because of that.

But that type of comment is a self fulfilling one.

I'm not getting her because no one will make things for her, content makers think, tootle that no one will buy if poeople think like that, they don't make things and the circle turns again.

Stuff being pessimistic, look forward to what people may be making.

Some poel have the glass is half full or half empty attitude, but I say, drink the rest of what is in the glass and the problem does not exist.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I like free, I have the latest version of DS to check things for Dawn.

I don't have a prblem with Studio users, but I do with a certain company.

Please check through this entire thread on my comments about Studio users and how I have gone out of my way to get them involved.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I think we all said some things...at the initial split and then a lot of us realized it wasn't the end of the world ;). I probably would never have tried one of my favorite figures (Angela by Mankahoo) if it wasn't for the split.

Besides, it's all water under the bridge. I don't really dislike DS users for using DS anymore than I'd think of disliking Blender users because I happened to use Wings. LOL.

A lot of us are gonna have to do some serious cramming to be able to make things work in both programs, and I think a lot of folks are willing to do it. Time will tell. For right now all we can do is wait and see :).

Laurie

Interesting thing though, DAZ forums now clearly showing unusually strong censoring of any reference to Dawn in posts... even a sensible discussion in the PC members area was all deleted (no links had been posted and nothing anti-DAZ had been said, only speculation of comparing to existing DAZ figures).

It seems quite clear now that DAZ are seeing Hivewire's Dawn as serious competition.

Quote - ... A lot of us are gonna have to do some serious cramming to be able to make things work in both programs, and I think a lot of folks are willing to do it. Time will tell. For right now all we can do is wait and see :).

Laurie

That is the kind of comment I was hoping for :D

Thanks!

Ah, I see what you mean; if one scales an individual body part there is a discontinuity...

Edit: here it is vs A3 with the right shin scaled 133% in y...

Agree Laurie, I can't check on rigging something I have until I have those tutorials.

Once I have them, I can work through, see if I can make changes to make it easier for people to do.

I'm willing to put in the time, I just need the info from the HiveWire3D team.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I would also like to see some nice dark textures for Dawn. By that I mean dark elf and evil characters.

Halloween is coming up and we need some darker characters to render.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I have V6 and Dawn side by side. While they are about the same in Daz, Dawn work much better in Poser. Especially in the the fitting room and setup room. Furthermore there is good reason to believe that Dawn will enjoy better Poser support than V6 in the future.

I think Daz can be excused for Genesis. The concept was so revolutionary that they became too exited to think about anything else. The situation is different with V6. Now they have had time to think things through. Now they had the opportunity to remedy all things. But they choose not to. Therefore, over the night V6 became history.

There is still the Daz program, an excellent tri-ax ecosystem that work perfect with Dawn. Personally I will work much with Daz Studio in the future. But v6 is gone from the radar.

Quote - I'm willing to put in the time, I just need the info from the HiveWire3D team.

As am I.

I've already begun by keeping my shaders on my textures more simple...but it's tough, really tough...lol.

What I need is some serious edumacation in DS materials (as well as the rigging). ;)

Laurie

And the advantage of that is vintorix will gain in experience that can be passed on to others.

That's how it should be, find a way of doing something and then pass on the info, none of this "I know how to do that, but I'm not telling" stuff.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I think it might be a little soon to predict that V6 has "become history" LOL.

Laurie

The main thing I wished for Studio and it's users was a dynamic cloth option that any user could make things as fast as I can in Poser.

There is quite a monopoly on dynamics in Studio and to be honest dynamics in Poser is the easiest way to learn how to make content.

Now if someone came up with a way of doing it then I'm sure they would have quite a queue of people waiting for it.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

I wouldn't keep the Poser shaders more simple - why should you? It just makes you and Poser users unhappy.

I am making textures for a V4 clothing at the moment and the shaders for Poser are including a blender node, velvet and other fun. Maybe not as complicated as you are thinking of, but complicated enough for me. I saved those as mc6, made pz2 (by hand) and loaded them in DazStudio (which would have loaded the mc6 fine, but I am making this for lower Poser versions too). There I looked at what was imported fine and what was not and began fixing broken things. I knew the velvet node in Dazstudio but when I couldn't find the blender node in DS, I asked. (It's the mix brick)

We were promised tutorials about the Poser/DazStudio materials somewhere in this thread, made by Zigraphix, I think. That makes me hopeful they will be actually useful to work with.

That has always been my main problem, tryng to keep things working in both systems with textures.

I have loads of poser only materials and it frustrates the hell out of me that I cannot use them in both systems.

Yep, I know I can just use texture files, but that bumps up the size of a project. Materials take up so much less space that I can make a project go to a decent size with lots of options.

The same must be said of Studio users and the various material shaders they have as well.

I think from what has been said in the thread that most content makers woud like to keep both sides happy, it's just a bugger to do at times!!! Lol.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

The HiveWire3D team are still wanting testers for content makers in Poser 9 and Studio, so if you thik you can help out, check their FB page.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

Which is rather odd, because it's commercial content that they've stated cannot be promoted on their forums, and Dawn on release will be free.

Oddly enough, I am not even getting emails telling me my posts have been removed.  I've even checked under spam :P  But ... I get every single one of those annoying daily marketing emails ... and talk about spam!  How many marketing emails from a single company do I need in one day?  They are as obnoxoius as Sears.  (I like Lands End products, but now that they are owned by Sears, I get multiple Lands End marketing emails every day.  Including ... Last day for this sale! emails multiple days in a row.)

Once we have our hands on Dawn, we will be able to post renders in the "other figures" topic though .

As far as Genesis (I didn't and don't plan to download the crippled "Genesis" 2 as DSON isn't and won't be installed on my new computer), Dawn bends better than it does.  I tried the hand on the shoulder pose I requested to be tried on Dawn with both Genesis (in Poser and DS), and V4 and V4WM.  While it was a no brainer that Dawn would do better than either V4, she also did better than Genesis.

I'm sure there will be DS users who will have no interest in trying Dawn (even though she will be free on release) and that's fine.  The point is that there no longer HAS to be a schism between DS users and Poser users, and it's quite telling when someone tries to convince the community that Dawn will be a failure because she isn't from DAZ.  Seriously? Does anyone really think Chris Creek doesn't know what he is doing?!?

Quote - Interesting thing though, DAZ forums now clearly showing unusually strong censoring of any reference to Dawn in posts... even a sensible discussion in the PC members area was all deleted (no links had been posted and nothing anti-DAZ had been said, only speculation of comparing to existing DAZ figures).It seems quite clear now that DAZ are seeing Hivewire's Dawn as serious competition.

Oh well...we can still talk about Dawn here, yeah? :)

I think the Dawn posts at Daz may be disappearing because, while the figure will be free, the Hivewire site will be a brokerage, and therefore commercial. They have rules about that ;). I'm guessing tho...I don't work for Daz nor do I know anyone that runs it ;).

Renderosity has similar rules, tho they will let you link to a free figure, even if it's on a commerical site (I think...lol).

Laurie

Quote - > Quote - Burned in specularity is there because the person who made the texture set didnt know any better or simply didn't know how to remove it from the resource they used. Just like having that ugly burnt in shadow under the glutes and breasts baked in. So now when you bend the leg, you have this ridiculous shadow line across the thigh even when there is light directly shining on it. That is just bad texturing, sorry, no excuses. Why is it only on skin and not really on clothing? Because the resources for clothing materials they use are flat (and easy to find) and don't have specularity baked in.

I seriously doubt that Thorne and Sarsa, serious veterans in this businees whom i hear made dawn base tex. don't know how to remove eye specularity. It would make about as much sense as claiming that stonemason doesnt know how to make props because he did ir didnt do something you think should be done a certin way.

Eye Specularity is a different thing. That is even fine even with baked in reflections at times because you cannot really see what the characters eye is seeing. Plus most renders people do you cannot even notice since the eyes are not right up close. Skin is a different story.

Quote - ... Renderosity has similar rules, tho they will let you link to a free figure, even if it's on a commerical site (I think...lol).

Laurie

No. Here at Rero you are allowed to post the name of a site, but not a link to a commercial site for example in the credits for your pictures in your gallery.

They are quite lenient here in this thread, which is no wonder - Dawn content will be sold at Rero too and they will get a new doll to cater for, but on the whole the Renderosity rules about competing sites are as strict as the Daz rules.

Daz was more relaxed about it once upon a time, nowadays they have the same rules as Rero.

Quote - Vintorix: Bejaymac is writing very, very helpful answers to creation problems in DS in the Dazforums. He does know a lot about DS.

this is very true Beyjaymac is very knowledgeable about many aspects of DS.

Considering that the people who make up Hivewire are mainly ex DAZ people I'm assuming that they know what they are talking about when they say it will be easy to do.

but I can also understand the comments made expressing concern.

in regards to v6 setting the standard not all DS users see her as a step forward but that is a topic for a different thread. For me she will be compared to Genesis( the original) as that is the main figure I use.

it may take some time before we have sufficient morphs to do a fair comparison.

I will be giving Dawn a fair go if for no other reason  than I would like to see the community as a whole ago. This thread has been great and I have seen many people post who I've missed seeing at the DAZ forums.

Quote - I think that should have been Dawn content made in Studio as the original mesh of Dawn was made in Modo.

All the best.

Great Uncle LROG

hi Richard, 

i think they were referring to the fact that it was initially rigged in DS and then exported as a cr2 and the rigging set up for poser...at least I think that's what they mean

Ok enough of the negativity from me as I do like what I see, I do like that it will push the boundries..hopefully. I like how the figure poses and bends etc. Overall it looks to be a nice functioning figure more than we have had before. So on that front I am quite excited about it. I like how we will have native software support for Poser and Daz Studio too.

As for testing my computer couldn't handle the strain. I thought about it but then common sense prevailed.

Szark

"this is very true Beyjaymac is very knowledgeable about many aspects of DS."

What he have said so far doesn't make any sense, for instance when he advocates that you should create your Dawn stuff in Daz first and then export somehow  to Poser. Very funny. This is better than Netflix!

I look forward to his next treatise.

Quote - Interesting thing though, DAZ forums now clearly showing unusually strong censoring of any reference to Dawn in posts... even a sensible discussion in the PC members area was all deleted (no links had been posted and nothing anti-DAZ had been said, only speculation of comparing to existing DAZ figures).

It seems quite clear now that DAZ are seeing Hivewire's Dawn as serious competition.

I posted a question in Sickles new thread, it wasn't explicit as I didn't use the name but it was clear who I meant and it didn't get deleted. So I dont think you can state that it will be automatically censored. I have some questions about working with a figure other than genesis which I've been thinking about posting Ill probably do it in the DS forum.

In the end it doesn't matter which way it went or how it was done. Dawn works in both softwares. Also, everyone is entitled to their opinion...if Beyjaymac doesn't wanna use her, that's THEIR perogative and I don't think baiting him or her is gonna accomplish anything (other than a pissing contest) ;).

Laurie

Quote - "this is very true Beyjaymac is very knowledgeable about many aspects of DS."

What he have said so far doesn't make any sense, for instance when he advocates that you should create your Dawn stuff in Daz first and then export somehow  to Poser. Very funny. This is better than Netflix!

I look forward to his next treatise.

that actually was how Dawn was created and it is one of the options available to content creators. Paul or someone else from hivewire posted that earlier in the thread.

i agree with Laurie though please stop baiting.

Quote - Speak for yourself Jan, as a DS user I don't want her, and it's not because of that pedo's wet dream that comes with DS, but rather from the massive headache she's going to cause for us, that and the flak Hivewire and the vendors are going to get for the lack of compatible content for the DS version.

Ok...speaking for myself, I am waiting for Dawn with open arms and an open runtime.    I've wanted a "new" figure for awhile...an updated V4, for lack of better phrasing.  I tried the new SM figures, and while I like one of them a lot, I'm having conforming problems.  So I really am excited about Dawn.

Quote - You see unlike most of the people here I know what is required to get content working with a Tri-Ax figure, if the content isn't made in DS and then exported to Poser but rather made in Poser, then it's completely fucking useless to us.

This is a bit ironic.  I know Poser users who -- when Dawn first came out -- said "ha ha, ask to see a Poser render of Dawn, since you're so excited.  You'll notice, everything is being rendered in DS."  Or words to that effect.  So there's concern on both sides, about making a figure that works in both DS and Poser. 

Edit:  And we got Poser renders.  Nice ones!

Quote - The teams hopes for Dawn are that she will unite the community, the only way that will happen is if all of her content works out of the box in both DS & Poser, and for that to happen all of it will have to be created in DS and then exported for Poser.

Well...I -- and that means I speak only for myself -- am not worried so much about the content, as I am the figure herself.  As said before, if Dawn is a good figure, the content creators will create for her.  Some will create for Poser, some for DS -- some for both programs.  But if she's popular -- and I hope she will be because I support what HiveWire is trying to do, and I think Dawn's beautiful -- people WILL make things for her. 

I hope, when Dawn is released, your doubts are appeased somewhat.  Until then, maybe just hope for the best? 

Quote - "this is very true Beyjaymac is very knowledgeable about many aspects of DS."

What he have said so far doesn't make any sense, for instance when he advocates that you should create your Dawn stuff in Daz first and then export somehow  to Poser. Very funny. This is better than Netflix!

I look forward to his next treatise.

It is what Etujedi (from Hivewire3D) said on one of the first pages of this thread ... do you believe him?

"i agree with Laurie though please stop baiting"

Well I gues I guess I should. It is only that I am so tired of what is not an isolated case. 9 out 10 of the negatives have no store, no gallery and no bio info.

The various ways they talk about of creating content in Daz and taking to Poser most be user stuff. An professional modeler and content creator does everything in his/her 3D tool of choice.