I need some feedback and advice on creating a see-through figure using V4/M4 figures or even basic ".obj" items. What I am specifically trying to do is get a look of a hologram/ghost type of figure. My work flow consists of Poser Pro, Vue 7 Infinite and Photoshop CS4.

After trying several techniques in post work and varies lighting in both Vue and Poser Pro, I have not quite been able to get a true look of such a figure. Of course Photoshop is quite powerful with using masks, layers, lighting adjustments, etc. but I can't figure out how to make just my figure look good after rendering for a hologram/ghost appearence. The problem is, I want the figure to be fully visible and not covered or emersed in atmosphere to get the effect. Best way to describe it is the "Help me Obi-Won" from Star Wars holograms sort of look. You can clearly see her outfit, hair, makeup, etc. but it appears hollow and empty.

If anyone out there has done such work, I would appreciate some detailed tips on how and what you did to achieve this effect.

Thanks,

Jeff

A bit of transparency and more refraction should get you close

Baggins Bill had a shader in the forums somewhere for something like this

Attached Link: http://www.runtimedna.com/mod/forum/messages.php?forum_id=95&ShowMessage=340509

Quote - Post 32 in this thread may help.

I took a look at the tutorial and while it is good and I appreciate the time it took to do and skill, it really doesn't get the same effect I don't think if you going for a realistic looking holographic image. The materials specifically are hard to get right so they can be seen yet still seen through if that makes sense.

I keep going back to the Star Wars movie analogy for how I want it to look. The details are all there, but the image is hollow and seen through. This effect I have seen on simple figures like in the tutorial link there, but not on a realistic render that with a figure like V4/M4 and clothing or objects on the figure.

Thanks for the replies, I hope others can give some more hints and help as I have yet to find a tutorial or post that has done this. I'm sure someone has out there.

or just do it like they did on the starwarz films and bill's img above - composite images in one's video editor, or photoshop.  in case nobody mentioned that.

Whoa, hold on there Miss Nancy - I did not do it that way. I did not composite that in anything.

That is a render straight out of Poser.

I haven't explained how yet because I don't want to waste my time if that's not what he wants.

That has got to be at least 5 raytrace bounces.

Only 1

Quote - Only 1

I thought the more bounces the more see through?

But there's a trick here - the same ghost trick as the other thread. I just changed the shader to generate a more realistic and monotone figure.

If you do this with multiple bounces and multiple layers of refraction or transparency, you would see his body under the clothes, and you'd see his arm behind him. You'd see his eyeballs and teeth inside his head. The requirement is that it LOOKS like it is a separate opaque render, composited with the other stuff as a whole. Not the same as seeing through the shirt, then the chest, then the arm.

Because of the way i did it, once a ray goes into him, it doesn't see the rest of him - it only sees what's behind him.

**Sorry about the BOLD text, for some reason there is a strange issue with posting right now, at least for me. I can't turn it off and bold is random.

bagginsbill,

Thanks so much for the help and others too.

Yes, that is getting close to effect I am looking for, but lacking in terms of color depth. It may just be the cloths you have selected for this figure, but I would like to apply this same sort of effect to clothing such as:****

**Evenesk's Elite, Lena cloths, etc.

I would like to get it with as much color as possible, just hollow sort of like in your image above. **The effect you have there works great for a ghost type of figure or washed out sort of look though like in a dream, mist, dark, etc. We are getting close though to my desired look.

I tried some Photoshop with my CS4 and I admit I am by no way an expert like some of the masters with that program. So I may be overlooking or not know how to get that look. However, maybe some sort of combination may be needed of a Poser render and post work in Photoshop to achieve this detail and hollow combination. I will that up to others to discuss.

Like I said though, we are close with that image, just need more color detail for the skin and cloths while looking hollow.

Thanks for the help.

Jeff

**

Forgot one thing, it doesn't really matter to me how many ray trace bounces we use or the detail here as long as it gets us where we need to be. I have done 15 ray trace bounces before. It helps in Vue 7 especially with hair to increase the depth of detail on some and you can get really great looks that Poser just can't handle.

Don't need ambient.

He wants realistic.

3DNeo - I'm glad I waited before explaining something you don't want. You mislead by going back to the Star Wars in your request. The Star Wars holograms were all done on a black-and-white TV and then superimposed. Since you said that more than once, I forced the shader to throw away the real colors and make it look like Star Wars.

OK so this is easy. Do what that other thread said:
Enable ray-tracing
Select your figure body.
In the Properties tab, turn off Visible in Raytracing.

Now go into each material of the figure. Turn down the Diffuse_Value to about .6.

Add a Refract node with IOR of 1.0.
Connect that to Refraction_Color.
Set Refraction_Value to .4.

That's all.

You can adjust those ratios of Diffuse_Value and Refraction_Value. The 60% and 40% I did is just one case. You can increase or decrease the effective opacity by adjusting those, but make sure they add up to 1.

bagginsbill,

Thanks, I played around with it some more and I think what you said in your last post may just do the trick for what I was going for.

Also, I still would like to know more about the Star Wars type of effect in your image above. Later, I am needing to do a sort of invisible figure and like the way the Star Wars effect looks and also the image of the invisible girl in the thread link above. I just need a little more full body outlines to the figure and such for the invisible character to be more detailed. What I was thinking is maybe somehow combine some of the techniques in that thread that shows the invisible girl figure with your Star Wars effect above which would give me a variety of tweaking depending upon use and need for the scene. That way I could vary the degree of color, detail, see-through, etc. What do you think?

That will help me out a lot, I am still playing around with this and hope to learn how to do those sort of effects better.

Does this trick still work in PP2014? Because I just tried it, and... well V4 didn't get the least bit transparent. She was clothed (with every single material set according to BBs explanation) but neither the clothes nor her hands or face became transparent. :(

What may I have done wrong?

I tried with both one and two raytrace bounces. No visible difference. The only thing that tells she's "invisible in raytracing" is that she doesn't cast any shadow.

I just was testing in PP2014 and the Refract node is buggy but I am testing a beta of SR something or other and I don't know what happens with the version you're using.

I suggest you start simple instead of a whole scene and instead of the ghost trick.

Make a scene with something to look at.

Put a Poser sphere in front - this is to look through.

Turn off Diffuse_Value and Specular_Value and put a Refract node into Alternate_Diffuse, which should be white.

Set Index_of_refraction to 1.

What do you see?

If it looks like glass (refracting) then you're borked. If it looks like invisible (except at the edges) then my problem with PP2014 is new to the SR and you don't have it yet.

Until we know what is happening I can't really suggest any remedy.

I'm borked. It seems to be refracting, even with an IOR of 1. Hm. That explains why I've had so much trouble with glass lately, if the refract node is borked. YAY it wasn't just me L

(it's refracting during the IDL pass. I have to leave for work now but will update with the final render, just in case it looks different once it's fully done)

I reported the IOR=1 bug to SM a couple days ago - have not heard anything about it.

Ok. Is it any idea for me to report it as well? Or would that just be unnecessary "noise"?

Computer is safely at home and I'm in my train now, but it certainly sounds like the bug is present. And it does explain why my bloodslides kept refracting and looking wrong, no matter what IOR I used. I'd actually given up on them because I thought I'd done something wrong with the material. But if it's a PP2014 bug then it all makes sense again :)

Okay, I'll not be disappointed that it didn't work for me in Poser 2014. It was frustrating enough for me to abandon all the changes I'd made . . . I guess I should have tried the technique in Poser 2012 to see if it made a difference, but I didn't think about it at the time.

BUT . . . should the refract color be white? (Now that I'm thinking this through, I suppose it should be.) When I set it up originally, the refract color defaulted to black and I didn't change it.

On the render, there are two spheres (indicated by the red arrows). One of the spheres is invisible. The other one is set with IOR = 1.2 and clearly is bending light rays.

In PP2014, they both bend.

Quote - Ok. Is it any idea for me to report it as well? Or would that just be unnecessary "noise"?

 

No need for multiple reports. The report I gave is being addressed.

Again I'm not sure if it's because of the bug.. but at least it looks funny :)

Have you tried rendering the scene twice, one render with the figure and one without and varying the transparency of the 'with' layer in a composit? If figure passes behind an object render that object seperately with Alpha and use as a top layer. This is the way many production companies have achieved the effect in the past.

Yeah I've made ghosts that way in the past.  Postwork is always an option, just not what I want here ;) 

I like (just as a personal challenge) to keep postwork at a minimum whenever possible. And I just wanted to do that ghost pic to see the effect. Which now sadly doesn't work properly. I hope it will be fixed in the next SR. The refraction node is pretty important, so it is imo a "must fix" :)

Pardon me for interrupting your thread and addressing the OP, Who BTW may be on a schedule and only wish to get the results and may care less about the technecalities. 99.99% of those who come here are artists some hobyists some pro's most looking for a means to an end... their artistic vision realized. I have been a member here for over a decade and there was a time when everyone had something to offer and suggestions were welcomed by everyone... Now it seems otherwise.

("I keep going back to the Star Wars movie analogy for how I want it to look.")

The technique I described above is similar to how the effect was achieved( superimposed(postwork) with some additional effects thrown in.) a comon practice at the time the Star Wars movie was created.

Quote - Pardon me for interrupting your thread and addressing the OP

OP (original post) is from 2009 and the OP (original poster) has not logged into Rendo in over a year.

Quote - Who BTW may be on a schedule

I hope not at this point.

Quote - Necromancing this old thread since it was linked to...

As far as I can tell, it's Trekkie's thread now.

JAFO.. Without quotes it's rather hard to know whom you're adressing. The guy who started this thread 4 years ago, or one of the persons who's been using it lately. 

So pardon ME for not being able to read your mind...