Hello,

I'm curious; I've just bought a 50" 3D television and I'd really love to make some 3D renders with Poser and use the television and glasses to view them. Is this possible? If so, what do I need, as I'm not entirely sure how all this 3D malarky works?

 

Many thanks,

 

Glen.

 

[EDIT] DRAT! I keep on referring to it as PP 2013 all the time, when it's actually PP2014! Ohhh, numbers and I do not mix at all! -.-

Hi

Yes it is possible.

But I think you will need a video card that supports Stereo.

Most new nVidia cards do.

I have a Geforce 680 GTX, and it works great, I play all my games in Stereo now.

The images are crystal clear and there is virtually no ghosting unless you get a very dark object against a very light background, 99% of the time I don't see any.

You can output the 3D images from Poser by taking a left and right image and combining them in a program like 3D Image maker, or 3D movie maker, both free.

I don't have a 3D TV but I do have a 27" 144 Hz 3D monitor.

I've made a number of 3D images over the last year or so, starting with the anaglyph images using the red blue glasses and now with 3D Vision.

What I don't know is if the nVidia Viewer works with other viewing systems like the one on a TV.

I'm guessing that as long as your glasses work with your TV, it will work with the nVidia MPO files when viewed on your TV but I don't know for sure.

Maybe someone here knows the answer to that.

Check out MrSparky stuff, someplace, he has a Python script for making the left right images automatically.  I need to find it again myself, I got a new computer, and havn't got it setup on it yet.

I've also done some 3D Stereo video in Poser that looks good.

I found a way to edit the stereo video in Adobe Premiere Elements too, so if you get to the point where you need to know how to do that let me know.

I'm going to do some more stuff soon, it would be nice if there were people that I could share some of it with who could also view it in 3D.

The thing that kind of slowed me down was that I couldn't show it to anyone other then people at my house when I got it done.

It is also possible that there is software out there designed to make or view stereo images from a left right pair, in a format for 3D TVs, you might want to look into that.

In that case you might be able to do it without a Stereo video card.

In either case it is possible to make the stereo images in Poser.

Mike

Hello, Mike!
Thank you ever so much for your post there, very informative! I've been thinking about it acutually; I could give it a go by making one render and writing it to a DVD, then putting it on my telly that way, as I don't think my video card will handle 3D as you describe. The only thing is, I'm not finding anything like that from MrSparky... Perhaps it's been withdrawn?

Yes, if I can manage to get this going nicely, I could likely use the knowledge of someone 'in the know' and will definitely be interested in seeing your work!

 

Thanks a million! :)

Hi

Mr Sparky is still around, maybe he will respond to this.

I think I have his e-mail I'll try and send him a message, I need the utility again too.

You can do it without the script.

Set up your scene, and make a render, label it "Name of file Right", then use the main camera Dolly X to move the camera to the right about 15 clicks and make another render named "Name of file Left".

I may have gotten that backwards, I always have trouble getting it right, and I never write it down when I figure it out.  By the next time I do it I've forgotten which way to move it (I'm 75). LOL

if it doesn't look correct you only have to reverse them.

Now you have the 2 images, load them into 3D Image Maker, and you can output a number of different formats, MPO for nVideo 3D Viewer, or as an Anaglyph (red blue) stereo image.

http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stphmkr/

I have only worked with these two formats.

You can get some red blue glasses from Amazon, I have about 30 sets. LOL   That will let you experiment with it with almost no investment.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_6?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=anaglyph%203d%20glasses&sprefix=Anagly%2Caps%2C236

I know that will work on your TV because I've looked at the stuff on my TV.

My computer is in the same room with my TV so I just ran a cable to it.

I bought some flip-ups to use while I was working because I have to wear glasses to see my monitor.

You'll have to do a little research to see what works with your TV as far as other formats.

I started from square one when I got my 3D Vision setup and had to figure it out, but it really isn't that hard to do the stills, the video is not much harder once I figured out how to edit it in PE 10.

Mike

My telly is downstairs and my PC is upstairs... There are a lot of cables (audio recording gear, gaming controllers, headphones and the like), so I don't think carrying a 50" telly up three flights or fiddling about with all this to take it down stairs would work... I'm under the impression also that I'll need to put the image onto a blue ray disc if I'm to put it in the player downstairs, and I don't have a writer. Hmmm, I'll give it a shot with the render and see how it goes, I have a ton of DVDs I can write to, so it's no big deal if a few are wasted. I actually have a green & red and a blue & red pair of glasses somewhere... I got them free in cereal boxes when I was a child, lol! Let's see how we get on.

Just one thing; when you say about moving the camera about 15 clicks, what are you referring to? I generally select the camera and use the wheels in the right-hand panel for things like that. Should I start off central or...? I'm a bit lost, lol!

Hi

Sorry, I'm using Poser Pro and it has a little button on either side of the wheel that moves it on unit.

So I just count the clicks when I separate the cameras instead of reading the measurement.

So move the camera about 14 units of measurement.

If you want you can make sure that the camera is set to zero for the X position and go 7 each way from there when you make the renders.  That will keep the view centered on the final product.

It isn't a set measurement, the bigger the separation the more the 3D effect, up to a point.

If you go too much it will start to look strange or give you a headache.

If you get them backwards the scene will go back into the screen instead of coming out or it.

You can make several sets, just move one of them farther away, and see which works the best, what you are simulating is the space between the eyes.

You will get better results using the hard plastic glasses when viewing, and you can make adjustments in the Stereo Picture Maker software.

Mike

Hello again, Mike!

Thanks, I gave it a try, after I posted I guessed you had meant 15 units of measuremrnt, so that's what I did. I put out two renders, one for each side and put them through the software I have called 3D Image Maker by Asoftwares, but my player didn't show up the file on thie disc, not in movies or photos, so I'm not sure if it's the right software/file format or if it needs to be on a blue ray disc to work. I'm also pretty clueless as to whether or not I need to create the disc in a special way in order for my player to read it correctly. My TV does accept USB storage devices, so I will try and see if it'll accept it that way.

Might you know of any links where I can get the most suitable software, please? I'm totally confused by all this, lol!

Many, many thanks for your help, Mike! If I can get this working right, I can send you the file and see if you like it. :)

 

Glen.

Scrub that, I think I found one, it's called Stereo Photo Maker and, by the looks of it, it creates every kind of 3D image there is, which is neat! Free too, always a bonus.

Well, I created an MPO file of my two renders, put them onto USB and it worked... To a point. I mean, it displays in 3D and there's no ghosting or weird bits, it's doing what it should, but it doesn't appear quite as 3D as I'd hoped. My character, Annette, is standing on a soft white-to-blue background and pointing directly at the camera. She appears 3D against the background, but her arm and hand appear at the same distance as her face and body. I'm wondering if rotating the camera around the Y axis would help or not, which is what I'm going to try next. I don't think it's a matter of how far apart the left and right images are, I think it's an angle thing, because her face should line up in both images, while her hand should be well seperated... At least, that's what I'd have thought!

I'll let you know how I get on and, if it looks good, I'll try and PM you the file, if that's a format you can work with?

 

Glen. 

Hi

Stereo Photo Maker is the one I gave you a link for and it's what I use.

Anaglyphs don't need any special player, just save the file as a JPG and display in on the screen.

They don't really have anything to do with the stereo capability of the TV or Monitor.

Try looking at them on you monitor.

When you get one that looks good then put it on a disk and show it on your TV.

I have a whole folder of Stereo Images from clear back in the early 1900s to the present.

Many of them look really amazing on my computer.'

Here's one of my favorites...

The nice thing about the anoglyphs is that you can share them online just like any other photo, as long as the viewer has a set of the red blue glasses.

Here's my Poser character Lucy in a setting made from the game Age of Conan...

I've had a lot of fun messing around with these, and now I'm going work on making some images and videos using nVidia 3D Vision.

Mike

Gah, why didn't I even see that link? It wasn't there before, I swear! >.>

Anyhow, Annie's looking fairly good in 3D, thank you very much! Would you like the file to view? I don't have my glasses to hand, they're in a box somewhere, probably still in storage as we're not done moving yet, lol!

 

Glen.

Hello charly_hayze,

You found the solution. In general, 3D TV accept MPO format image directly via the USB port. No need of special software or complex set-up. My LG is perfect to show my stereo image.

About the stereo effect, you have to understand the concept of stereo-window, see my gallery for an illustration. Here is the link:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2373244&user_id=651369&np&np

I wrote a Python script that generates the two images for the stereoscopic images.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=62715

For the choice of stereobase, see the following thread:

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2850426

Here is a list of some tutorials or discussion about stereoscopy related to Poser and other modelling application

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2817598

 

Good viewing,

Allstereo

 

Hey Allstereo!

Yes, I did try your script, it looks rather handy! I should perhaps mention that I do regularly receive the following error... In fact, I've only just had it work without giving me the error and I've literally changed nothing, just persisted, lol:

"line 63, in

Disp = (Stereobase/2)/262.128
TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for /: 'NoneType' and 'int'"

Strange, but let's see how this first render goes, thanks an awful lot to you both! :D

VERY nice! I'm very pleased with this, thank you! Perhaps I'll render my infamous motorsport animation in active 3D, if everything continues to go well! :)

Hi,

displaying 3D images on a TVC via MPO format files on an USB stick did not work for my TV when I bought it (and I was very disappointed about that), but it looks like some firmware update now changed this. On my TV, I can now view 3D images. Time to spend some time on rendering some...

After some initial tests which worked fine if the objects were not too close, I experienced major ghosting for closer objects, when only moving dollyX. The results were better when I rotated the camera a bit.

After some googleing, I found this interesting article: http://paulbourke.net/stereographics/stereorender/ 

About 2 thirds down, there is a description of the "correct method". I think the "asymmetric frustrum" cannot be achieved in Poser automatically (unless you do manual "area render"), but that still leaves some black borders.

The procedure I have now successfully tested is:

1. increase the width of the target image a few pixels (from about 1% if the focus is far away to about 5% for a very near focus plane; as an example, I changed from 1920 x 1080 pixels to 2020 x 1080 for a very close focus plan).

2. render the left and the right image, using dollyX - 0.032 m for the left and dollyX + 0.032 m for the right (giving about 6.5 cm for the distance between the human eyes).

3. In gimp (or whatever you like), use the left portion of the desired target resolution (in my example 1920 x 1080) for the right image part, use the right portion for the left image part.

4. Use stereophotomaker to combine the two PNGs or JPGs into one MPO.

I will try to post an example, but I think the gallery does not allow MPOs...

 

Best regards,

   Michael

 

You can also dual camera render (group 2 cameras eyespace apart) and take the 2 movie renders into Magix Video MX. It can combine the movies into one 3D movie without having to get a special video card. Output onto a Bluray and enjoy on a 3D TV or post it on Youtube where us smart 3D TV users can watch it.

Mr Sparky is still around, maybe he will respond to this. He is and he likes this stuff here :) As noted, that cool script isn't mine. Thats by AllStereo. I just played with .mpo files, poser and posted some tutorials about anaglyphic images movies. MIkes's pretty much covered a lot of whats in those, but if you want them just google "poserdirect Concepts and Tutorials".

Though will add a few tips here...:) If you're using regularly using USB sticks on a wall mounted TV, go get an short USB extension cable. Maybe consider those angle adapters. On one museum install to stop the sticks from being nicked staff would insert/remove daily, within a month or so of trying to get the stick into a tight space, the USB port got broken. Thats NOT something most TV warrantys will cover, insurers will treat it as obvious user damage. Specialist commercial TV warrantys/insurances usually will, but expect to battle. Another thing to note about 3d TV, especially the nice shiny 4k ones, is how it uses layering. You can fake this easily in poser by ensuring good gaps twixt foreground, mid-ground and background. Another simple way of enhancing the 3d effect is behave like a good portrait photographer and use a blurred background. One quick trick in poser is render the background without person, save the render and camera and post-work the blur. Then using the same camera position add figure and use previous render as an image background. .MPO files are most commonly found in Fuji and Sony cameras. Even their basic compacts now have this, usually under 3d sweep panorama, and these can be used to create backgrounds within poser scenes. At the same location if you take 3 shots at different exposures, thats enough to make an HDR light probe (use Picturenaut) which will (roughly) match the lighting within the panoramic image. Just remember a compact will be lighter than an SLR, so use a small 10 buck travel tripod when shooting to reduce motion blur. Also if you're making a lot of these images and especially movies, consider using a small HDMI media player (the 20 quid Sumovision ones are nice) and have a remote control. Another option is to use a tablet, most androids can handle an amazing wide range of video codecs. If theres no HDMI on the tablet or player, get a cheapo USB2GO cable from ebay. ...mostly have fun and play around :)

Hi,

thanks for the tip with the USB port. This indeed could happen, and the TV has only one port. On a PC, there's usually a second (I even have 4!) USB for backup.

Luckily I don't have to worry about 4k right now ;-)

I noticed that the Fuji dual lens camera (Real3D W3) is about 1/3 of the price now compared to when it was released 3 years ago. I'm not sure if it really takes the pictures at the same time or just in a short sequence. I'm considering getting one, it think it could as well be used as a playback device (it has a HDMI connection, according to the specs).

Concerning the complex procedure I described above, I think it could be simplified a lot, as Stereophotomaker has an automatic procedure for that (justage automatic / Alt-A). At least it seems to deliver very similar output.

Best regards,

    Michael

*Luckily I don't have to worry about 4k right now ;-)* Yea way too cheap for my tastes :) LOL *Fuji dual lens camera (Real3D W3) is about 1/3 of the price* I see ijtdirect is still selling viewsonicvc3d2 - a twin lens/sensor 3d video camera for around 65 quid. Theres some sample clips on youtube. *I'm not sure if it really takes the pictures at the same time or just in a short sequence* Often with 3d twin-lens video cameras usually the twin sensors operate at the same time and the cameras software does the rest. Though with single lenses it'll be a short sequence, because theres only 1 lens and only 1 sensor. Sequences are certainly used in cameras which have an HDR mode (shoots 1 image very quickly straight after the other at 3 different exposures). Though even while it's quicker than a persons finger, sometimes anything moving in the shot will be in a different postion on each image. Like the bus shown here (this is part of a sweep panorama).

Panoramic images can also be tricky devils as well. While some cameras do stitch the final image together from mutiple shots, others just convert a video clip into a single JPG image. Which can raise an issue in terms of quality if we want to use these as poser backgrounds. Take the panoramic shown here, looks OK full length, but view a portion of it (below) at actual size it's not looking so hot. This image isn't helped by the fact it was taken in near darkness (it's the back of the Brighton pavilion if anyone's curious), no tripod with me so camera was set to Auto ISO. 1600 - hence the heavy grain.

That said panoramic's can be usefull for poser scenes. At your location shot 1 panoramic (for the sky) and 1 single non panoramic image (for the background). Fake the exposure on the panoramic to create 3 panoramic's of differing exposures. Then use picturenaut to create an HDR for HDR lighting or IBL light probes. Now use the non panoramic as the background in poser. It's not scientific or always accurate, you do have to play. Plus some poser purists might argue it's not the "right" approach. But you don't need an expensive camera, many compacts have a panoramic mode. Indeed some like the sony cybershot compacts have a 360 panoramic where some sony alpha SLR's only have a partial panoramic. I use both and I'd bet very few people could tell the difference.