[quote

Maybe their educational market contacts are near to where they live and they want to cater to that area. I know for example atBbringham Young university art department, even college and post grad figure drawing can't be done in the nude.

When people plan to penetrate a certai market, they tend to go with what they are familiar with, and most people are most familiar with the customs, laws and habits in their local area.

Regardless of the reason, it is their decison.

Well, I guess we can be glad that at least they're from the States somewhere and Dawn isn't being sold with a built-in burka.

But you do see that, from the viewpoint of people outside the US, the lack of nipples and genitals is only a step or two away from above, right?

I mean, if they were Saudis and said, "But we want to market to schools, so we must insist that her hair is covered," (and actually made it difficult to add hair props/figures) you'd find that weird by your standards, and probably complain that maybe the figure's usefulness might be a little compromised.

Well... same here.

ETA: And as a result I do question what all the hype is about. There is huge promotional effort going on to promote a figure that is not only missing key components of her anatomy, but who is modelled in a way that makes adding such components difficult. Why? Doesn't make sense to me.

Will she come with a Laila face morph :)

@ erogenesis, I have a couple of questions regarding this topic.

1. Since you've already created Lali's Bits and seem to be using it to great success, why do you feel the need for another figure?

2. Since you have her bits for sale does that make you a pimp? Just kidding. Wouldn't your sales figures give you a more accurate read of whether the community desires detailed genitalia or not, rather than this extremely small sampling? Can you provide any insight from your customers?

3. Wouldn't a new non-Daz figure suffer the same lack of support other figures have suffered? Especially as this figure would be aimed at a niche market, some sites would refuse to carry it. Some vendors would refuse to develop for it, and others would question its profit potential.

I don't do artwork that requires such detail at this point, but if I did I would require a variety of characters to choose from, a considerable amount of morphs for face and body customization, and plenty of clothes to remove from her.

I wonder if it would make more sense as an artist to work with a well supported figure and add the bits than to try to customize a poorly supported but anatomically correct figure.

Quote - Will she come with a Laila face morph :)

I would not have dared to ask that. ;) Or with a Lali facemorph. i just guess Ero doesn't want to give to much out of his hands. I really, really think honestly, that Lali could be bigger than that. Till now Lali is a Poser only thing. I thing she could easily hit the comic book market and could become a widely known Character as Druuna, Axa or Lara Croft is - Including all those merchandizing stuff like dolls, stages and t-shirts. Not joking here, I'm serious.

Moriador: "I'm all for anatomically correct figures purely on philsophical grounds."

Yep I am guilty of that too. Lali is based on a girl I fell hopelessly in love with and wrote 110 poems for and made lots of music for etc etc and I still kind of feel that it is an insult to women in general whenever they come out with a 3D figure without a vagina. But that is my personal feeling about it. Off course there might be practical issues and moral concerns.

Stuff about under age models having genitals

... and the potential for catering for child pornographers. I've read a few comments across the forum about this issue. Although I deplore the existence of such urges in certain people, and depite what we do to prevent it, it has always been around and it is very hard to eliminate that from our society. These people will find a way no matter what. Even with Dawn, who is as sexless as a castrated monk high on valium, they would be able to conjure up dodgy things. Now because it is virtual, I'd almost say let them wallow in their own miserable fantasies, you can't stop that anyway. But if that extends into our society and onto the screens of our kid's computer, the best we can do is have faith in the systems in place, either technologically or judicially, and just promise ourselves to be alert at all times to stop our young ones becoming a victim of this.

But like Shane says, it hasn't shown itself to be such a big deal up until now, and since the release of Lali's Bits, nothing dodgy has been seen yet, or at least not that I know of. I think we must not under-estimate the websites, the firewalls, the internet police, all the good people involved, and above all our kids. Everyone pretty much knows what the deal is, and there are only very few people that have truly bad intentions. Off course there are websites that seem to attract the sick ones amongst us. But its not that hard to stay away from, especially if your moral grounding is sound.

But since Project E is more than just a set of genitals, and age morphs would be a nice addition to a complete figure, it would make a whole bunc of people feel much much better if I included that option ONLY for the version with a 'neutered' crotch. In other words, not fit for sex.

nobodyinparticular - "Even children have genitals, and it may frighten people to know that they are aware of them. I've had children, had to explain things many times. To me, figures without genitals are like the old three fingered cartoon figures."

yep, and that always seems to go well. When it comes to kids seeing naked people, opinions about that vary across the world. In sex education books its not a problem. In Holland they walk around naked on most beaches haha. But it shouldn't have to be a problem at all. We must not over-protect our kids because that will only have the adverse effect on them... they'll get even more curious! When it comes to kids seeing porn... hmm. In my experience, kids are usually completely uninterested in that stuff. When I was 11, I really couldn't care less about the whole reproduction story. It sounded daft at best. When I was 13 however, things kinda changed. But even then it wasn't such a big thing for me. Only much later did I start drawing naughty pictures in my notebooks haha. I think we should have a little more faith in kids handling thes emost natural things like genitals ans sex. We musn't get all worried if we catch your teenage kid checking porn... unless it becomes excessive and a hinderance for their development. But that usualy indicates that there's another problem going on than sex.

For the record I don't have kids, but all my three sisters do. I might as well be a father with 8 nephews and nieces!!!! I don't show them my naughty work.

randym77 - "If you're doing porn, or erotic art, or whatever, you'll probably want a lot more detail than someone doing artistic nudes or clothed figures, and it's a waste of polys."

caisson - "I genuinely do not understand why that level of detail would be desirable in a figure used in non-pornographic renders. Would seem like a big waste of resources."

yep, that and the previous comment I made about age morphs, are two reasons why I'm considering providing a genital-less option.

Toastie - "It seems to me that if you're going to make a figure with proper genitals then you might as well do it properly! Otherwise do you have to make a series of figures with various degrees of anatomical accuracy?"

yep, but ommitting all the coitus-related morphs is easy to do.

meatSim - "If the figure is over all very well done but its primary distinction is its marvelous morphing vagina and anus (really?!) I think it will set a tone where it will end up niched regardless of quality or potential. I would expect that as much as the figure is focused on its sexuality so too will be the lions share of the products made for it. "

I think the way it goes once its out depends on many things, like obviously marketing and how it has been put out there. But I think it will be inevitable that it will get a 'Porn' stamp on it because of a few reasons:

• My name is EROgenesis
• My site is full of stuff that people will immediately call porn
• Project E will have very detailed genitals, and some influencial people will be vary inclined to label it as porn and dissociate themselves with it, for the same reason as someone else mentioned earlier. Either they think it is morally polluting, or they are afraid to be associated with it on a professional level, etc...

So I think it would be inevitable. the only way I could hope to counter that is a strong media campaign, and show people in my comics and renders how nicely it works.

Personally I'm not too bugged by it. If it turns out to be as good as I hope, and people still avoid it because she's got a vagina, well that's their loss.

Walters - "In our society evidently any form of violent image is OK-but a nekkid breast? Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!"

Have you noticed that the porn is on the top shelf and the guns are on the bottom shelf. What would you rather have your kid playing with? his willy or a .45 cailber hangun? haha

BadKittehCo - "If I was being pushy, I'd get all insistant about having enough geometry on her so she can grow a weeniee, especially considering that in a real person, elements of those organs are shared on males and females, just rearranged in differnet places."

I actually incorporated that option, but I still have to see how that will work out.

"Porn and Erotica"

Call me stupid but I seriously never considered my work to be porn until someone a few days ago called it that. Porn for me is graphic images of senseless sexual intercourse, with no story or reason why they are doing so. Its just to get a load off.

I've always aspired my work to be more about what we in real life experience swith sex, the personalities that we have sex with, flirting, the verbal foreplay, the chit-chat. But also after the sex, the compulsory toilet visit, etc... but porn? Hmm.

off course my comics do have some pretty graphic scenes, but they are always articulated with some added humor and / or personality that you hardly ever see in porn.

ok stopping now or this post will get TOO LONG!!

Quote - ETA: And as a result I do question what all the hype is about. There is huge promotional effort going on to promote a figure that is not only missing key components of her anatomy, but who is modelled in a way that makes adding such components difficult. Why? Doesn't make sense to me.

Simple answer from my point of view, some of us just really don't care if the figure has complete genitals.  If she has all the working bits, great.  If she doesn't, it really makes no difference to me.  I rarely render nudes, and when I do I pose them modestly.  Does she bend nicely and look alluring in a slip of lingerie?  If she does, then I'm happy.  The imagination can fill in the rest of what's under that lace.

Honestly, the fact that she only has base morphs still is of far more concern to me than her lacking of gentials.

Quote - > Quote - Will she come with a Laila face morph :)

I would not have dared to ask that. ;) Or with a Lali facemorph. i just guess Ero doesn't want to give to much out of his hands. I really, really think honestly, that Lali could be bigger than that. Till now Lali is a Poser only thing. I thing she could easily hit the comic book market and could become a widely known Character as Druuna, Axa or Lara Croft is - Including all those merchandizing stuff like dolls, stages and t-shirts. Not joking here, I'm serious.

It's ok, I often rib him elsewhere about this an he knows i'm only joking...I hope :)

Quote - 1. Since you've already created Lali's Bits and seem to be using it to great success, why do you feel the need for another figure?

I'm moving the ansers to this thread.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Will she come with a Laila face morph :)

I would not have dared to ask that. ;) Or with a Lali facemorph. i just guess Ero doesn't want to give to much out of his hands. I really, really think honestly, that Lali could be bigger than that. Till now Lali is a Poser only thing. I thing she could easily hit the comic book market and could become a widely known Character as Druuna, Axa or Lara Croft is - Including all those merchandizing stuff like dolls, stages and t-shirts. Not joking here, I'm serious.

  It's ok, I often rib him elsewhere about this an he knows i'm only joking...I hope :)

hehehehehe, I wonder who you are now...

I'll answer in this thread, don't wanna deviate too much from this thread's subject.

Quote -  

Personally I'm not too bugged by it. If it turns out to be as good as I hope, and people still avoid it because she's got a vagina, well that's their loss.

 

From my point of view though, its not just their loss, its everyones.  well everyone who wants a figure for a wide range of uses.  If its the 'porn' figure its not going to get the support for non erotic uses and unfortunately at that point it will cease to matter if its the-hands-down-best figure ever made.  Even someone who doesnt care at all if it has genitals but wants to be able to use a figure for 'everyday' work is screwed unless they can provide the clothing for it.  Now if you are a clothing creator who makes kind of everyday not to sexual stuff but the figure is known to mostly be used for erotica are you going to put any time into it.. probably not as the target audience for that figure wont have much interest in your work.  even if you are doing it for free you want people to at least appreciate and use your work.

Quote - > Quote - Personally I'm not too bugged by it. If it turns out to be as good as I hope, and people still avoid it because she's got a vagina, well that's their loss. 

  From my point of view though, its not just their loss, its everyones.....

I'll answer it in the other thread since its more about the figure marketing etc...

Quote - If you can buy a gun and kill someone (a perfectly forseeable risk since killing is exactly what guns are designed for) and the gun vendor isn't liable, how on earth could a content creator be liable if someone chose to make an illegal image with their content?

I'll never grasp the concept of an "illegal image".  I understand illegal actions, but not illegal thoughts.  I especially don't understand all of these sexual taboos in a culture obessed with serial killers, torture porn and zombie massacres.

Quote - I especially don't understand all of these sexual taboos in a culture obessed with serial killers, torture porn and zombie massacres.

That's easy to answer.  It's more "politically correct" to pry into people's bedrooms than it is for the current honey wagon full of jerks we have running the country to address real issues.  "We're protecting you from these horrid people that want to make nude pictures!"  which is fine, "Who's protecting us from you?"  And who said I had any intention of anyone else seeing them? 

The founder of the Burlington Liars Club, (An actual entity, by the way) very wisely banned all politicians from the annual competition.  Reasons should be evident.  Us amateurs have no chance against people that are professionals.

Doric.

I think 3D models should be as realistic as possible. If you don't want a naked Vivky then put clothes on her.

Quote -  I'll never grasp the concept of an "illegal image".  I understand illegal actions, but not illegal thoughts.  I especially don't understand all of these sexual taboos in a culture obessed with serial killers, torture porn and zombie massacres. 

The problem is, you want world that makes sense. Not going to happen.
Most of us have no power to change it either (or time and energy to get involved im movements that have a chance of changing thing), since we're just trying to survive. 

I know or me time when I had the energy to get involved in ectra causes is long gone, I'm just happy to get through a day without major personal mishaps. 

Quote - I think 3D models should be as realistic as possible. If you don't want a naked Vivky then put clothes on her.

Amen!

I don't have any concerns. If your female model is anatomically correct and I put clothes on her because I don't want to do a nude scene, guess what? she's not naked! If some people don't like it so what? Lost sales I doubt it, from my long experience of reading posts here, as in 10 yrs, the most vocal people are often the least likely to buy anyways. 

Quote - I don't have any concerns. If your female model is anatomically correct and I put clothes on her because I don't want to do a nude scene, guess what? she's not naked! If some people don't like it so what? Lost sales I doubt it, from my long experience of reading posts here, as in 10 yrs, the most vocal people are often the least likely to buy anyways. 

My sentiments exactly! Unless you're going to try and create a second-skin or something, where the genitals would have to disappear, why the fuss about not having genitals on the figure? If you are trying to create a second-skin, perhaps it would be a good thing to have skin tight underwear that covers the genitals seamlessly and appears as part of the hip, or, as has been said, a removal morph.

I'm not all that keen on props and stuff... They never, ever work like they could and always have that underlying 'prop' feel to them. Lali's Bits is an awesome pruduct, best I've ever used, but even this keeps some of that 'proppyness' to it.

I would say that, if there is to be a detailed female figure with highly accurate genitals, it would be best to have a ton of options for it, morphs wise, and to include the same level of detail for the anus too. Also, if there's a female figure like that and no male figure... Well, that's sexist! Lol! :P

Quote - Also, if there's a female figure like that and no male figure... Well, that's sexist! Lol! :P

Guilty as charged. Something withholds me from working on a man's bum... just... eh... not entirely my cup of tea haha. But, in the spirit of realism, maybe I'll have to succumb one day. The front part however... yeah I'll probably do that sooner.

help me O.o

But but but.. male bums are so much more interesting than their female counterparts ;)
(not to mention the dangly bits on front L) 

I like my bums round, not square ;)