Hi !

Could somebody explain me, in a few words, the difference between Dawn and V4 or V6 ? Is there any advantage to leave V4 for Dawn ? Or where may I find a topic about this subject ?

I use currently Poser 2014.

Thanks !

Dawn bends/poses better than V4

Dawn can use most of v4's clothes (with PP2014 + WW module)

Dawn can V4 hair (netherworks HCS2014)

Dawn base is still free (I think, from hivewire.com)

Cons: (less than a month old so some of these will probably go away)

Shortage of textures

Shortage of morphs

Including a render of V4 Bodysuit from DAZ converted to Dawn.

Now I am getting some popcorn :D

Bill

V4 works in Poser and in DS, and has a ton of content.

V6 works in DS, is troubling and a memory hog in Poser.

Dawn is brand new, for Poser and DS. (not all of her content works in both)

Biggest advantage with Dawn - since most vendors have jumped on the bandwagon I am not tempted to buy anything.  I have nothing against a new model, just too much investment in getting V4 to work well, not willing to start over.

V4 - been around for ages and there's lots of content available for her free and paid.  Downloading the free V4WM and Outfitter scripts means you have a very well done weight mapped figure that bends and moves as well as any other weight mapped figure, with a free conversion program to weight map clothing you have already.

V6 - works in DS only unless you install DSON in Poser and then is slow and cumbersome to use in Poser.

Dawn - limited clothing and characters available at this point just because she was just released on August 9.  Given time, she may have as much available as V4.

So, if you're just starting out, there's not much difference between the figures.

It just depends on 1) personal preference for software - Poser or DS and 2) personal preference for which figure you find most useful.

If you have a heavy investment in V4 already, then I suspect you'll find yourself going back to V4 over and over again.

Thanks to everybody for your response. They confirm what I was suspecting. I keep on using V4. I will try Dawn just for fun.

Regards.

wow part of a page in and they havent had to nuke the thread from orbit yet.. nicely done guys :)

The answers given so far pretty much sum it up.  A lot of it depends on your v4 investment.  Pretty sure she is still free until the end of august at least so it would definitly be worth picking her up to have a play

For Poser Pro 14 Roxie is a killer mesh.

For DS Pro 4.6 V6 is is a killer mesh.

I'm having lots of fun with Dawn.  One of the key differences in her is 2 neck bones, 2 chest bones and 2 abdominal bones.  It makes for some fantastic ability to pose her well.

Keep in mind if you have the PP 2014 that most of V4's wardrobe is easily converted to Dawn.  I've converted several outfits with ease.  Shoes are a bit of a challenge.

Shoes are easy :D

The trick is to only use fitting room for rigging.

load dawn, load the shoes, manually fit then where you want with dials/morph brush

then go to fitting room and create figure.

The shoes on the image I posted above are from the Shadow Dancer from DAZ

Bill

Quote - Shoes are easy :D

Thanks, Bill! You just made my day!

you may have to adjust the falloff zones on occasion, but in general it works well

Bill

I wish there was more content for Dawn, but maybe I'm just greedy.  I was just over at DAZ, where people are complaining that Dawn has a lot more stuff than V6.  So, I guess it's just part of what you have to expect with a new figure.

Oh, Okay, I'll have to try that with the shoes and boots! 

Quote - I wish there was more content for Dawn, but maybe I'm just greedy.  I was just over at DAZ, where people are complaining that Dawn has a lot more stuff than V6.  So, I guess it's just part of what you have to expect with a new figure.

With DS Pro 4.6 Genesis can where any DAZ content made for all of the DAZ Characters.
No other character has more content then V6 not even V4.

of course the same can be said about Poser Pro 2014.
Roxie can where any content made for any character.

The days of content limited to only a certain character has ended.

Quote - With DS Pro 4.6 Genesis can where any DAZ content made for all of the DAZ Characters.
No other character has more content then V6 not even V4.

of course the same can be said about Poser Pro 2014.
Roxie can where any content made for any character.

Sure, but that only applies to clothing. 

What people are really missing for Dawn are more morphs.  Also, textures.  There aren't many textures for Dawn available, and most of the ones out there have baked-in speculars. 

Quote - > Quote - I wish there was more content for Dawn, but maybe I'm just greedy.  I was just over at DAZ, where people are complaining that Dawn has a lot more stuff than V6.  So, I guess it's just part of what you have to expect with a new figure.

 

With DS Pro 4.6 Genesis can where any DAZ content made for all of the DAZ Characters.
No other character has more content then V6 not even V4.

of course the same can be said about Poser Pro 2014.
Roxie can where any content made for any character.

The days of content limited to only a certain character has ended.

Provided you can get it out of DS and into Poser in the first place. Still would be nice if the Poser  figures worked in DS.

pros:

• free

• has it´s own DAZ Studio Version

• fresh face, prettier than V4, bends well

• wears Genesis 1+2, Aiko 3 and V3 etc. clothes, hair and shoes after I created clones for my personal use. 

cons:

• few textures

• IMHO weird teeth and belly button, no nipples ( easily fixed in blender) and other lady parts ( not so important for me )

• she´ll end up dusting in the runtimes when the first hype is over just like all the other 3rd party figures. Remember Gloria, Glorias male counterpart (already forgot his name), Apollo, Sara, Maya Doll, Antonia to name just a few. As said before most of us have invested a lot in DAZ Generation 3/4 and/or Genesis 1/2 and won´t be willing to invest the same amount of money in a new character. In a while people will lose interest, the sales will drop and so will her support.

Quote - The morphs are on their way ;)
 

OMG.  Where?  When? 

Quote - - she´ll end up dusting in the runtimes when the first hype is over just like all the other 3rd party figures. Remember Gloria, Glorias male counterpart (already forgot his name), Apollo, Sara, Maya Doll, Antonia to name just a few. As said before most of us have invested a lot in DAZ Generation 3/4 and/or Genesis 1/2 and won´t be willing to invest the same amount of money in a new character. In a while people will lose interest, the sales will drop and so will her support.

I don't think that's going to happen this time.  And it has nothing to do with how good a figure she is.

The difference is Hivewire is a real company, with real funding.  Those other figures were basically people's hobbies.  Dawn has a bunch of people whose full time jobs are promoting and supporting her. 

And not just any randoms off the street.  These people have launched successful companies before, DAZ among them.  They know what they're doing, and if they didn't think they'd be successful and profitable, they wouldn't be doing it. 

Yes, most of us have a lot of invested in Generation 3/4 or Genesis.  So what?  We had a lot invested in V1/2 when V3 came out, a lot invested in V3 when V4 came out, etc.  That didn't stop us from investing in new toys.

Some of those Figure scenarios have to do with creator support.  If the creator drops out or moves into supporting other things, then its likely that the figure will eventually perish.  You can't just simply throw something out there and be done with it.

Poser needs things that revitalize the economy and interest of it all.  I don't see any investment lost if someone enjoyed what they got at the time of their investment.

Sticking with the same content can also be self-defeating.  If you already have all the pants you need for V4 and vow never to buy more of that clothing then it already suffers from self-saturation.  If it's all about putting everything for another figure onto a new one, be ready to learn new skills (or get frustrated).  That's not to say that we can't try to fill in some blanks here and there - nothing wrong with that.

There's also something to be said about throwing off the yoke of one master.  That's not a company bias as much as I don't necessarily believe in one figure to rule them all.

Use what you want and be happy, IMHO.  There's no money down to try Dawn for free at this time.  One can simply delete it and move on if there's no "spark".  No harm, no foul :)

Quote - cons:

• few textures

• IMHO weird teeth and belly button, no nipples ( easily fixed in blender) and other lady parts ( not so important for me )

• she´ll end up dusting in the runtimes when the first hype is over just like all the other 3rd party figures. Remember Gloria, Glorias male counterpart (already forgot his name), Apollo, Sara, Maya Doll, Antonia to name just a few. As said before most of us have invested a lot in DAZ Generation 3/4 and/or Genesis 1/2 and won´t be willing to invest the same amount of money in a new character. In a while people will lose interest, the sales will drop and so will her support.

I'm not using Dawn or any other figure at the moment other than the native Poser figures, but that's primarily because I'm making clothes for them. That said, I have no problem using Dawn or V4, or if I could get it out of DS on my computer and into Poser even Genesis. Okay maybe not Antonia 'cause personally, I think she ugly. but hey, that's just me.

But look, as far as content support goes... it has to be out there for people to find and use. V4 content has has over six years to accumulate. Of course she's well supported. She's also well hyped. the Victorias are DAZ's flagship models. and there have been six versions of her, so it's not like all of this was just yesterday.  Given time, Dawn will accumulate more content. She just came out less than a month ago, and people act like she should have as much content as V4. That's not going to happen. Even Genesis has taken some time to shore up what support it has, and that's been about two years worth of shoring up.

Quote - > Quote - The morphs are on their way ;)

 

OMG.  Where?  When? 

As soon as I can jog my memory into remembering how to inject the groups L The PMD is done, but at the moment the morphs ends up all jumbled L 

So hopefully I'll be submitting it to the MP this weekend. Wanna try them out for me? I know I' supposed to have a tester but no one replied to my call for testers, so....

They're Poser only at the moment btw. I hope to figure out how to do a DS compatible version soon :)

Quote - > Quote - I wish there was more content for Dawn, but maybe I'm just greedy.  I was just over at DAZ, where people are complaining that Dawn has a lot more stuff than V6.  So, I guess it's just part of what you have to expect with a new figure.

 

With DS Pro 4.6 Genesis can where any DAZ content made for all of the DAZ Characters.
No other character has more content then V6 not even V4.

of course the same can be said about Poser Pro 2014.
Roxie can where any content made for any character.

The days of content limited to only a certain character has ended.

I just dont think that is entirely true yet.. at least not in practice.  While its easy enough to get passable results from re-fitting they are nowhere near as good as clothing designed for the figure.  In order to get comparable results to vendor offerings(and I'll be the first one to say that sometimes thats not that high a standard) you need to put in a certain amount of practice and skill with the tools.  While its now technically possible for content to be free swapped between figures, a large chunk of the market isn't going to be able or willing to use it.  My take on it is that native content for any particular figure is still a HUGE aspect of its over all success.  The game changer would be in poser(or DS) integrating a pipeline to re-distribute third party re-fits.  I'm sure there is some decent money in high quality re-fitting of items.  Its just a matter of how to get them into customers hands without ripping off the original creators.

2 NVIATWS and NDIATWAS; what an epic battle render that would be.  :lol:

If Dawn could morph into anything and her clothes followed the morphing... like Genesis does in DAZ... she'd be more than a 'me too' product.

There's a V4 weight mapped version so... V4 and Dawn both bend equally.

V4 has 5 frigillion tons of content in any category you can think of and in a year from now will still be having brand new content released.

V6 will be replaced by V7 in 18 months... and will the products for V6 work with V7? Ask the folks who invested in Genesis 1 and got a surprise with genesis 2.

I've seen someone morphed Dawn into a dragon. If her clothes follow... she will win... because she's fully useable in Poser.

"There's a V4 weight mapped version so... V4 and Dawn both bend equally."

Not quite true.  With two neck bones, two chest bones and two abdomin bones, Dawn bends/twists much bettern/smoother that v4wm.

Bill

Quote - "There's a V4 weight mapped version so... V4 and Dawn both bend equally."

Not quite true.  With two neck bones, two chest bones and two abdomin bones, Dawn bends/twists much bettern/smoother that v4wm.

 

Bill

I did not know that. She must be able to do great extreme bending.

and she has great elbows and toes that wiggle

Bill

As for Dawn bending better, you gotta throw in the caveat against stock V4.

So far from what I've seen, Dawn does have bending issues, more so than Victoria 4.2 with the Xamevia & Meipe's Perfect Victoria bundle. 

The Dawn release has been a Meh for me.  If anything, to truly release a revolutionary new figure, there should at least be no obvious bending issues.  I can understand limited morps with the free product, they are a company and people need to be compensated for their effort or it won't happen.

With the plethora of V4 characters & content along with Perfect Victoria, I won't be using Dawn for quite some time.

Quote - If Dawn could morph into anything and her clothes followed the morphing... like Genesis does in DAZ... she'd be more than a 'me too' product.

There's a V4 weight mapped version so... V4 and Dawn both bend equally.

V4 has 5 frigillion tons of content in any category you can think of and in a year from now will still be having brand new content released.

V6 will be replaced by V7 in 18 months... and will the products for V6 work with V7? Ask the folks who invested in Genesis 1 and got a surprise with genesis 2.

I've seen someone morphed Dawn into a dragon. If her clothes follow... she will win... because she's fully useable in Poser.

That's all well and good, but the thing is, if Genesis hadn't split the community by not being able to work natively in Poser, we'd all being using V5 by now and our runtimes would be bulging with her content. Don't believe me? Ask V3. She didn't lose the crown over night.

Real company backing a figure is a big deal. Makes Dawn not so third party.

With WM V4, there is more then one out, and none 'official' so, which do you support as a content maket?????

Quote - Real company backing a figure is a big deal. Makes Dawn not so third party.

With WM V4, there is more then one out, and none 'official' so, which do you support as a content maket?????

There's no need to "support" V4WM by PoserPlace.  Everything in your runtime is easily converted to WM clothing with a simple, free script.

And, a brand new startup company with a single figure isn't so reassuring to all of us.

I use V4-WM, and the script...but I have to admit, it's a bit of a barrier.  I'd much rather have stuff that fits out of the box.  Ditto Wardrobe Wizard.  It's a game-changer.  I just bought the Dawn module for it (even though I have the Fitting Room as well).  But stuff made to fit without any more effort on my part is better.

Quote - "There's a V4 weight mapped version so... V4 and Dawn both bend equally."

Not quite true.  With two neck bones, two chest bones and two abdomin bones, Dawn bends/twists much bettern/smoother that v4wm.

Plus Dawns mesh and grouping were designed with weightmapping in mind, while V4's wasn't...

GNDA2 and Miki4 have toes that wiggle too. So does Roxie I guess.

I've always found that a problem with converting V4's clothes to any similar figure is that when I've finished I find myself wondering why I didn't just save myself the effort and use V4 anyway. :biggrin:

Quote - Shoes are easy :D

The trick is to only use fitting room for rigging.

load dawn, load the shoes, manually fit then where you want with dials/morph brush

then go to fitting room and create figure.

The shoes on the image I posted above are from the Shadow Dancer from DAZ 

Bill

I do not get good results for high heel shoes. The bones seem to be in the wrong place, but fixable with the setup room. The joint zones then seem to be in the wrong place. This seems more difficult to fix. Is there a trick to converting high heels?

I have had to adjust falloff zones on occasion.

Sample render of high heels with feet adjusted up and down/toes up and down.  No joint/setup work done.

You just have to be as accurate as you can when you set them up.

Bill

Ok, went back in and converted those shoes again to see why!

if I do the Side/side from thigh bone and twist from foot, no problems.  If i do side/side by moving body (those shoes are left shoe and right shoe) I did have problems with the conforming.  Hope that helps.

Bill

I cant really say whether or not this is accurate or not as I dont have the 'perfect' bundle of fixes.

I dont think its fair to say that really nullifies dawns bending advantage over v4 even taking your claim at face value.  The cost of this bundle is a whopping 50$ on top of whatever the cost of the v4 bundle that gets you all the morphs that dawn keeps getting knocked over not having.  v4 base(no morphs) is a 30$ product so looking at v4 base + perfect fixes vs dawn base you are paying $80 dollars more.  How much will come out for dawn over the next few months that you could put that 50$ towards since you dont need to 'fix' her bending.

Now if you have already sunk a bunch of cash into getting v4 the way you want.. well honestly if v4 is the way you want, and you dont want anything more, then it doenst make a ton of sense to start investing elsewhere until and unless 'elsewhere' starts having things that you want but cannot get from v4.  So it really comes down to what you have compared to what you want and where you want to go as an artist and consumer.  Dawn wont be for everyone and that is OK

Quote - As for Dawn bending better, you gotta throw in the caveat against stock V4.

 

So far from what I've seen, Dawn does have bending issues, more so than Victoria 4.2 with the Xamevia & Meipe's Perfect Victoria bundle. 

 

The Dawn release has been a Meh for me.  If anything, to truly release a revolutionary new figure, there should at least be no obvious bending issues.  I can understand limited morps with the free product, they are a company and people need to be compensated for their effort or it won't happen.

With the plethora of V4 characters & content along with Perfect Victoria, I won't be using Dawn for quite some time.

Quote - Ok, went back in and converted those shoes again to see why!

if I do the Side/side from thigh bone and twist from foot, no problems.  If i do side/side by moving body (those shoes are left shoe and right shoe) I did have problems with the conforming.  Hope that helps.

Bill

The have to fit dawn in zero'd position.  I did find one of my V4 high heels that did not have the toe bone, I did not convert that pair, although I probably could add a morph.  I do not have very many high heels for V4, so have not converted many.  I will do some more research.  One thing I intend to try is hand fit, save/import as obj file getting rid of all bones/morphs that are already in the shoe.

WW and the fitting room mangle shoes so bad they are unusable.

Bill

Here's a good humoured product...

ROFLMAO