I'm a little biased I guess because I really do like Roxie, the native figure that comes with Poser 10/2014. but I guess she does have a few drawbacks that I hope SM will address with the next version of Poser.

My biggest complaint about her is that where Alyson 2 had more morphs than a airplane cockpit has dials, Roxie hardly as any. Certainly not any real critical ones.

That said, if you aren't using  Roxie, why not? What could Poser  do to improve Roxie to the point of where she would be your go to human figure to use in your renders?

Did you know that you can finagle Wardrobe Wizard to transfer morphs from one figure to another? It is a bit of a hack and you can not redistribute the result because it would be derived works.

You'll see the hint every time you analyze a full body morph.

I think the eyes, and the elbow bends have always been a bit under what i've come to expect in a figure compared to daz figures.  the eyes just dont look good.

And then the top of the shoulders has in the past looked bad to me, but I haven' tried roxie.

But I love poser . I spend so much time playing with it and making things. it made my comic visions come to life.  It's an addictive hobbie, but so much fun.

I too hope that in the future there will be new improved figures.

Poservangelism rocks!

Yeah, some more professionally produced shaping morphs, for both Roxie and Rex would make them so much more useful I have to say...

...and more skin textures... at least to cover a range of ethnicities.

Something equivalent to the ++ morphs and elite skins, if you get me. Doesn't need be as extensive even though... I don't think.

Hivewire and its associates now seem to be doing a good job on this front for Dawn, I reckon.

It seems pretty clear to me that the useability, and consequently success, of any figure will depend on a reasonable quantity and quality of these two elements being made available by the figure's creator / publisher and / or primary sponsor.

I reckon that only through the figure's originator producing a good starting amount and grade of these components will any other third parties be likely to take on the mantle of further augmenting a figure's stack, on these fronts.

So, c'mon Steve, Teyon and the other guys at SM... can you find it in your time and budgets to show Rox and Rex some more mid-term(?) love?

By the way, check out Teyon's Rex ZBrush sculpts in his gallery. Some cool ideas about what could be a better approach to skin texturing there, I think...

;-)

..... so maybe Roxie will prompt creativity rather than cloning?

Just a thought :scared:

Actually Phil, while I'm not discounting what Wardrobe Wizard can do, and for all I know, maybe it does it better, Poser 2014 will let you transfer morphs from one figure to another as well. I did it with Alyson2 and Roxie. Unfortunately, the results aren't always  an improvement.

I've been trying to play with Rex, and yes- the lack of morphs are rather disturbing when you compare them to others (Gen, M4, etc.).  I do want to learn how to make my own improvements and changes in figures using either Hexagon or Carrara and Poser, as well as work on skin textures.  Not just for the Poser figures, but others not of the main base-line sales of late.

Why not?  I've been looking into Alyson 2 and the morphs from GND are phenom; but the lack of props for her is disturbing when she's such a fantastic character.  We definitely need more variety in the field of ready characters.

If someone were to give them a make-over, would it be worth the time investment to get enough people using them? 

I don't like Roxie's face. Overall she reminds me of a prepubescent boy. Her whole body, not just her face. If she had more female curves she'd look more like an adult and wouldn't make me feel as pervy as I do when I load her. I like Rex much better but his feet are screwed up. There's a strange inner bow to them that doesn't look natural. It actually looks to me like they got hit with the move brush in ZB on accident and was overlooked. It happens. 

I've been working on FBMs for both her and Rex, off and on when the inspiration hits, but I haven't put much effort into it so far because I don't know how much of a waste of time it would ultimately wind up being, and it takes away from all the other stuff I'm working on.

The eye lash thing is really annoying too. 

~Shane

My problem is a simple one: Poser - Blender - Poser -Blender - Poser - Blender - Poser - Blender.

I love Rex and Roxie : and am sure SM will fix them. (Lashes, elbows) The shoulders are a simple Blender stroke or 2.

But my problem is Blender - Poser -Blender - Poser - Blender - Poser - Blender.
I sculpt and I sculpt, and morph and morph, all evening long, all week long, from even ot uneven months.

I love both, Poser and Blender, and the combination of both.

It's my hobby, my passion, and yes, sorry to say but also my obsession. LOL.
On average, 3-4 hrs a day, at least.

Together with my all time favorite, Rex and Roxie are among the best meshes I have ever seen. 

Quote - ..... so maybe Roxie will prompt creativity rather than cloning?

Just a thought :scared:

Careful there Phil... it's a dangerous thing, thought ;-)

What draws me to use Rex & Rox is that they're the most innovative native Poser figures, in terms of the tech at least... in Poser terms, they're the cutting edge, I guess... with the new Subd stuff, certainly.

Dawn is progressive. But is still targeting backwards compatibility... and I kind of see that figure, in the tech terms, as a step forward, rather than a leap, still.

Although, in marketplace terms a pretty decent sized step I think... and still, weight mapped, so... well worth considering as an option.

But seeing Rex & Rox's further development going down the line of more innovation, more R&D, rather than mere imitation, would be the best way that SM could go with them, with the next addition to them, or version / iteration of them, I think.

I guess at the moment, I'm continuing to hedge my bets... and I might end up mixing and matching... something which is also better catered for with PP2014 I guess...

Still waiting for more news from Shane on his project(s) too, of course... ;-)

Quote - Why not?  I've been looking into Alyson 2 and the morphs from GND are phenom; but the lack of props for her is disturbing when she's such a fantastic character.  

Because Anastasia and the rest of the GND girls are mostly intended for pin-ups, and pin-ups don't generally require much clothing.

~Shane

For me, it's more about having a wider range of available characters to use.  Even with all of the distinct characters we have on the market for the Daz series (all of them) you can tell what they are...Daz products.  Michael, Genesis, Victoria.  I want differences, major ones.  As people are in real life.  Variety.  Even if it is just for my art and my learning process, for me it's not a waste of time.

and yes- LOATHE the Rex eyelash thing. I mean, really? O.o

Yeah... definitely being able to mix and match figures better is good.

It's great that this is where the Poser tech is going I think... whether that's via fitting room, morph brush enhancements as seen in PP2014, to transfer morphs, or add-ons like Wardrobe Wiz or Texture Transformer...

Is it the mesh eyelashes you don't like? I thought they were a bad idea when they said they were adding them ;). Ya just never render close enough to notice anyway.

As for Roxie, tho I don't have PP14 (yet), she looks like an 11 year old girl to me (especially the shape) and I totally see where Shane is coming from. LOL.

Laurie

Quote -
Still waiting for more news from Shane on his project(s) too, of course... ;-)

Thanks, and I'm still working on that, promise. Wish I could give more details but I can't right now. Unfortunately I gotta make money too, and that takes time away from bigger things. 

~Shane

Totally OT, but Laurie - you should enter the Dawn contest - if you haven't already - it's a free copy of 2014 and a bunch of other stuff. The deadline got extended to Dec 31st and so far it doesn't look like a whole lot of people have entered, so less competition. 

I would send this via PM but you never respond LOL.

I'm actually kinda startin to like Dawn, even with her Lenochin and scary shoulders. So I'm workin on some stuff for her too. 

I have a ton of projects in the fire, but I have no life, so plenty of time. LOL

~Shane

I was thinking about that contest as well.  I've experimented with Dawn and other than that chin and shoulders and the eye-thing...(I don't really care for how they look) she's been used a few times in my artwork with fairly good results.

That's another one I have hopes on working into my regular runtime.

Quote - Thanks, and I'm still working on that, promise. Wish I could give more details but I can't right now. Unfortunately I gotta make money too, and that takes time away from bigger things.

~Shane

That's cool... happy to wait patiently right now ;-)

Quote - Even if it is just for my art and my learning process, for me it's not a waste of time.

Well for me, I don't mean waste of time as in "these figures are crap" cause they're not. Overall they're pretty good. But when I'm working on stuff for my own personal art, I can modify any of the ones I currently have, which is a sizeable and growing collection. But I don't want to spend the hours, days and weeks it takes building content/mods/etc for other people to use, if they aren't going to use them. That would be a waste of time for me, especially when I have other things I want to do, like my own figures.

~Shane

Quote - > Quote - Even if it is just for my art and my learning process, for me it's not a waste of time.

Well for me, I don't mean waste of time as in "these figures are crap" cause they're not. Overall they're pretty good. But when I'm working on stuff for my own personal art, I can modify any of the ones I currently have, which is a sizeable and growing collection. But I don't want to spend the hours, days and weeks it takes building content/mods/etc for other people to use, if they aren't going to use them. That would be a waste of time for me, especially when I have other things I want to do, like my own figures.

 

~Shane

Ah, gotchya.  :)  I agree.  IF I get to that point of making content for other sorts of models, it will be mainly for myself unless there's some interest.  Then I may consider more- problem is, my style of what I want isn't everyone else's.  It's not even main stream.

Quote -Ah, gotchya.  :)  I agree.  IF I get to that point of making content for other sorts of models, it will be mainly for myself unless there's some interest.  Then I may consider more- problem is, my style of what I want isn't everyone else's.  It's not even main stream

Style evolves over time. And there's always someone that will like it and want to see/use more of it. 

My style depends on my mood, and I'm borderline bi-polar so you can imagine. 

I have a series of cutesy cartoon animal characters I want to do - I've only gotten as far as sculpting the prototype of the main character. That's actually part of what got me interested in Poser again, cause I discovered 2012 finally had the ability to create believable wings on creatures, and my main character is a sugar glider - something that was pretty much impossible to rig properly prior to PP2012.

But then I have the darker stuff that fuels most of my inspiration and would pretty much only appeal to fans of horror and sci-fi/fantasy. 

And then there's the every day stuff that also appeals to me. I've been working on an a detailed 3-story old victorian-style house with interiors and furnishings, off and on for the last 2 years. I also want to build a 3D model of a pit bull, cause I haven't found one that appeals to me, even the DAZ dog doesn't cut it - there's supposed to be an APBT in there, but it looks more like a rottie or a mastif, definitely not a pit. I guess only pit lovers recognize the differences in body and head shapes. I want mine to look like my girl, who is a rednose - very different from a mastif, or even a blue. 

And the list of ideas just keeps going. I model what inspires me. It doesn't have to fit a specific style.

~Shane

I've been using Roxie for my "Elderly" figures.

She's not a Glam babe, thats for sure, but is more "realistic" as she represents the more typical human shape of reality.

I hate her lashes as well, but doesn't bother me since I use poser mostly as a compositing tool, my renders get Illustrated/Painter over.

I love those lashes they render faster than transmapped lashes, so I don't see problems at all. Allthough we have weightmaps now, we still need breakthrough innovations on rigging. WMs are just a minor improvement now. Some clever JCMs on sphere mapped figures still do a better job (LaliBits on V4).

I am using head morph packs less and less, though they can be helpful. The way I work at the moment, I just export the head to Blender and sculpt it into the shape I want. Then that morph is all mine and I can do what I want with it, once I have stripped out the geometry.

If you use the same figure all the time and the same morph pack, like with V4 and the ++ morphs, you get to know the different morphs and what they do. I use many figures and the morphs are not comparable across figures - or you may find yourself looking for a morph that isn't there, or it doesn't deform the mesh in the way you had in mind.

Currently I am using Poser to make portraits of real people, perhaps that is why I am being so fussy.

But certainly, if usable morphs became available for Rex and Roxie, I would buy them and use the figures more. I don't believe Smith Micro has ever brought out an add-on morph pack for one of their figures. We would probably have to look to another creator for that.

Even with more morphs, these figures won't become my mainstay. With the flexibility that the latest Poser gives us, I don't need or want any figure to become the "default" figure. I like the variety in realistic human figures - this is the way I have always wanted to work with 3d figures.

I'm not ready just yet to try and push my skills with morphs just yet, so I'm sticking with clothing for right now,

In honesty I was not satisfied with the shoulder bend in any situation where the arm was swung forward.  That was my main gripe.. I cant recall my thinking on the remainder of her rigging. though sometimes when i go back and look at something later on it doesn't seem as bad.  

I really liked allyson 2 mesh, but I cant get around the way her thigh and shoulders behave. (thigh collapses, shoulder/lat area just looks bizzar with arms raised.

Miki4 I actually remember having some issue with... but going back to look at her recently i cant imagine what it was... I really like her!

EClark, clothing is difficult. It involves actual modelling.

Face morphs I do just with sculpting, which is a different skill set but also useful for fine-tuning clothing. The only think you have to be careful of is the vertex order when you import and export - that must remain unchanged. That isn't difficult, it is only a detail you have to take care of.

Take a face that doesn't have any shaping morphs to speak of - like Kate for instance, or Poser 6 Jessi or James. They really need some new faces, and they will be easier to work with than Roxie or Rex because you won't have to deal with the eye issue. Find some nice reference photos to help you with the facial structure. Then play. Use the sculpt brushes on very low settings to start with. Even if it doesn't work, you will have had fun and learned something. You can always start over. It is much easier than you think.

This making you feel better ?

;-p

Okay, to be fair, I did just pickup Dark seal's Roxie Plus morphs. I like them. But she definitely could use some aging morphs for the face.

I'm working on a few pin-up poses for her as well. This is one of them.

Dark seal's Roxie Plus morphs?  Where please?

Thanks!

Quote - Doesn't remind me of any boys I know.

Okay, to be fair, I did just pickup Dark seal's Roxie Plus morphs. I like them. But she definitely could use some aging morphs for the face.

 

I'm working on a few pin-up poses for her as well. This is one of them.

Got Dark Seal's morphs from Renderotica.

As always, very nice work Joe. 

Glitterati - I think it was mentioned earlier that Dark Seal's Roxy morphs are at renderotica.

~Shane

I really like Rex and Roxie. Anyone who makes anything for them is guaranteed at least one customer .  I work with women. Many of them college students or recent graduates. More look like Roxy than Dawn or V4. Glitterati, love your dresses. As always, Poserworld has two or three outfits for Roxie, and one for Rex. Running a half price membership at this time.

Nice morph Timber.

I was referring to her default shape tho.

And I said boy, not guy. ;)

~Shane

Quote - Nice morph Timber.

I was referring to her default shape tho.

And I said boy, not guy. ;)

 

~Shane

That's allright. I understood :) "boy" would just have lowered the effect of my ironic remarke , sorry about that ;) :D

Man, I can't catch a break! If I post here about Genesis or DAZ, I get attacked about saying negative stuff by certain people and the thread gets locked.  I start a thread about Dawn, and people who have negative comments about her come along and guess who gets nailed  as a troll even though I was defending Dawn!

Just checking out one of the threads over at Hivewire and I read this little tidbit:

"Don't worry for the trolls roaming Renderosity.

An experiment to induce peace of mind: whenever you see a trolling comment, note the name. You will quickly come create a very short list (I'd say at most 20 names) which are Genesis content developers (who apparently are not enough busy creating for their figures...) or people in love with Roxie or lovers of the low poly mantra (any reference to the guy who shows off his "creations", less lifelike than 15$ inflatable dolls, is purely deliberate)."

Yeah, I know who wrote it and no, I don't dispute that I'm a "Roxie lover". What's so bad about that? But come on, how do you get that I hate Dawn out of that? As for my "creations", hey, I'm still learning. I've never made a secret of that! Dawn wasn't around then, V4 had more than enough clothes and I can't run Studio on my machine so I can't use Genesis. So how else am I supposed to learn, through osmosis?

Ah well, I learned along time ago not to take things said about me by people I've never met and wouldn't know if I tripped over them bother me. Especially in forums on the internet.

Besides, he didn't mention my name, so I guess there's a chance he's not talking about me.

I don't think they were talking about you EClark ;). I know who tho...

I ain't sayin a word. LOL

Laurie

I know who, right LaurieA?
LOL.
But will not lower myself to their "hyping" level any more.

@ EClark;
Agreed, Rex and Roxie are the best meshes out there, and I am sure SM will fix their current flaws.

Well, Teyon just posted in another thread that SM has plans to support the figures. I certainly hope so. That said, my liking Roxie is in no way a diss of Dawn. Heck, I haven't even unzipped her yet to my runtime. (I need to do that though). Frankly, I haven't had any extra money to spend on new clothing for figures. That's one of the reasons why I decided to support the Poser figures in the first place.

Sorry, I have to react.
Their remark about "creations" was on my adress.
I am the "Low poly guy". 
Thus releaving the pressure on you and your welcome support for the native Poser figures.

I just "hate" people that are trying to "forcefeed" their "hypes" into the community.
Certainly when they come out with yet another "balloon wearing" female.
Breasts, whatever happened to breasts? ?

*** "You"have" to like this or that figure."***

No ladies and gentlemen. We do NOT "have" to like any figure or balloons, in any form or shape, be it high or low poly.

LOL; Unless you wanna sell balloons. LOL.

If you want to create a hype?
Come with something "new". That is ; november - echo - whiskey. NEW.

Nothing against Genesis or Dawn.

But countering the "forcefeeding" of both, by both "clans".

Have a good day all.

Every site/group/individual has their likes and dislikes, their "cliques" and we all know it. No need to give it anymore thought vilters or EClark...it's not worth your time ;). Do what YOU like and everyone else can f**k off :). In the end it shouldn't matter if any of us likes it or not if YOU do.

Laurie

What's truly sad about this industry is that if you dare to speak about your personal preferences, and ACT on them, by gawd, you're suddenly declared the ENEMY.

I must have missed the rules where we all have to agree to like the same figures, to use the same software and never, ever, dare to discuss anything that might disagree with the majority.

Someone wanna link me up to those rules, please?

Quote - Every site/group/individual has their likes and dislikes, their "cliques" and we all know it. No need to give it anymore thought vilters or EClark...it's not worth your time ;). Do what YOU like and everyone else can f**k off :). In the end it shouldn't matter if any of us likes it or not if YOU do.

Laurie

Perhaps I have missed something...

Where in this thread is ANYONE being attacked, other than the quote of what someone said over at Hivewire? (And that is a problem for THEIR moderator to handle...)

I'm not sure what's going on here, but I've read this thread twice and am not seeing anyone being attached HERE.

What am I missing? Can someone quote the message to me so I can remove it?

And yes. I agree 100% with LaurieA. No one has to like any figure in particular. That's what freedom of choice is all about.

We were just commenting on that quote, wiz. I thought the poster was talking about me  when I read it, but others seem to believe it is about someone else. Either way it was a comment he made to Chris Creek about the current Dawn thread in this forum.

I have likes and dislikes on all of the currently available characters.

Which is why I like having a collection of them, I can pick and choose.  I also am trying to learn how to fix what I don't like about each, even if it's for my personal Runtime rather than to sell.  Hell, I don't know enough in that area to make my own- so yes.  I work with what I have.

As for Dawn, there are a lot of things I like and dislike- my main gripe is that I got her then purchased the mini morphs for Studio........when my main working program is Poser.  Oops.  But again, my bad not theirs. 

People that run around calling Troll, in my experience, ends up being one of them- calling the kettle colors when the pot is one as well?  Eh.  Leave them where they are and keep your opinions your rather than theirs.

In the interim- I am trying to work a personal morph for Rex simply because the mesh seems easier to work with for me.  That, and I have rarely used him so.....challenge!