Lol..depends how you respond to it:)

Dawn.

The thread is about Dawn... not Poser/Daz or Genesis.

Stick to Dawn.

I'm really tired of digging through all the non-Dawn related noise.

 O.K. :

Refering to the original titel, no other figure has ever polarized that much as Dawn. Never ever has the Poser comunity arguing that hard about a a figure.

Quote - > Quote - Competition inspires.Monopoly's stagnantes.

All of Poser's tech is at least a Decade old.

 

true, since DAZ Studio stepped in, Poser actually became better. But are those two players really enough? Who else is in that market backed up by a community, that exchange content?

DAZ Poser are the only ones that do what they do.

but DAZ Poser has 2 diffrent philosophies.
Poser makes software for characters.
Daz makes Vicky first & then the software to go with her.
Some where along the line there's Michael.

Don't know about AutoDesk having 3 of the main CGI App's.
I have no objections to HiveWire3D making software for Dawn.
Anyone here still want to play pong or donkykong ?

Speaking of Dawn, the morph set from Hivewire3d is now available.  $28.83

It looks like the servers are getting hammered, but they are available.

Is that what people were waiting for? sigh...I shall not comment...

Quote -  O.K. :

Refering to the original titel, no other figure has ever polarized that much as Dawn. Never ever has the Poser comunity arguing that hard about a a figure.

I am not sure that people are polarized with Dawn.  According to this thread some love her and are using her, others see no real improvement and are not using her while others are sat on the fence thinking she has potential but there are some aspects lacking at this point in time.  In addition to this there are those who want a far more technically advanced figure and are either not interested or making a number of changes before using her.  That seems a real wide spread and much as I would expect at this point in time in the life of a new figure.

Any polarisation happened long before Dawn and I suspect no figure, no matter how good will change that.  Some will continue the bleat on hoping the world will be different while the rest of us get on with using the figure that is best for our needs now while keeping an eye on what might be available and what our needs might be in a future. 

Really the answer to the question is that Dawn has had an impact but it varies from person to person and will never impact those who want to push their belief that the one they use is the best.

Quote - Is that what people were waiting for? sigh...I shall not comment...

I'll comment.  30 head morph? Really? And they all still look like the default.  I'm keepin my money.

My concern isn't the head morphs, but those body morphs.. Seriously now...That looks worse than V4's morph package, and thats nearly 8 years old.

Perhaps those that think they have the skills to do other morphs had either do so or get off the pot.

Easy to moan, harder to do something.

Great Uncle LROG (Don't forget to complain about this post)

Quote - > Quote - Is that what people were waiting for? sigh...I shall not comment...

 

I'll comment.  30 head morph? Really? And they all still look like the default.  I'm keepin my money.

The email arrived in my in box as I was writing the last response and so I went there.  I agree with the above, the head morphs look tame and should have been included with the figure and I have no idea where I would use 90% of the body morphs. 

Really sorry to say it but I cannot see this will result in any major changes in her impact and for me I will stick with V4WM for a little longer yet.

How about taking ALL the non Dawn stuff out of this thread.

GReat Uncle LROG (Don't forget to complain about this post)

Maybe I'm not looking at it right. On the main page is that a obese shape or a fat suit? I ask because of the bunching at the wrists and ankles where it looks like pants and a body suit. Maybe morphs were combined.

paganeagle2001: remain come ,it will all be ok.

Male_M3dia:All morphs no suit.

Isn't that more or less the morphs that Vicky 4 had ?

It's Dawn version 1.and Vicky is at version 6.
So not sure why where comparing D1 to V4.

If you do or don't like the morphs that's a personal thing.

Dawns a mesh with morphs now.HiveWire3D is making progress.

Interesting.  The body morphs are rather extreme, but I like what I've seen so far.  I doubt I'd use them at full strength, but that's how morphs should be, IMO.

The head morphs, in comparison, are extremely subtle. 

I'll probably be buying the stack.

Quote - It's Dawn version 1.and Vicky is at version 6.
So not sure why where comparing D1 to V4.

This is a silly comparison. Do not go with figure version numbers, but time of release, and compare the mesh quality with the relative timeframe and technology available, not numbers.

Hi RorrKonn, no probs, but it ALWAYS seems to be the same people complaining about Dawn, some with a bit of talant, but won't do anything for her.

Plus all this other stuff that has NOTHING to do with Dawn, she's not V4, Genesis or whatever, but it seems as if the mod cannot do their job and take it out.

Amazing that certain peoples comments dissapear VERY quickly, while other peoples friends stuff stays.

Great Uncle LROG

How about you contribute to the thread and comment on Dawn, instead of worrying about who choses to support her? Most have already made their stance on this if you read the thread, and have given reasons to their decision for doing so. Also that has no bearing on the official morph packs that people have been waiting for, which is what we are commenting on now.

I think I have contributed more to Dawn than most of those that have posted in this thread.

NDA does not allow me to say what.

You complain about morphs, but haven't done anything to show anything different.

Only TrekkieGirl has done other morphs in the store here (if others have, then I don't know about them).

So, perhaps those that have the talant could come out with better morphs, or is it just so much easier to complain about other peoples work and do nothing about it.

Great Uncle LROG

Every one be nice ,this thread is .0001 mm from being locked anyways.

Quote - > Quote - It's Dawn version 1.and Vicky is at version 6.

So not sure why where comparing D1 to V4.

This is a silly comparison. Do not go with figure version numbers, but time of release, and compare the mesh quality with the relative timeframe and technology available, not numbers.

I guess the sillyest part of it all is where comparing Chris's meshes to each other.

Quote - I think I have contributed more to Dawn than most of those that have posted in this thread.

NDA does not allow me to say what.

You complain about morphs, but haven't done anything to show anything different.

Only TrekkieGirl has done other morphs in the store here (if others have, then I don't know about them).

So, perhaps those that have the talant could come out with better morphs, or is it just so much easier to complain about other peoples work and do nothing about it.

Great Uncle LROG

What I contributed has nothing to do with the official morph packs. Stop trying to divert focus from what we are trying to talk about. We are talking about the official pack that all have been waiting for, not who made this and that.

Now the wait for the ethnic head morphs pack begins........

Hopefully, it won't take as long.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - It's Dawn version 1.and Vicky is at version 6.

So not sure why where comparing D1 to V4.

This is a silly comparison. Do not go with figure version numbers, but time of release, and compare the mesh quality with the relative timeframe and technology available, not numbers.

I guess the sillyest part of it all is where comparing Chris's meshes to each other.

Think he was only involved up to V3.

IF, and I say, "IF", as I my doubts are getting bigger and bigger by the minute.

IF HW wanted DAWN to become popular, they had given the morphs as a free update.

What they are doing now is close to ridiculous, read as : "closer to suicide".

They KNOW,, or should know, that they start as the underdog.

This is . . .sorry, no words for this.
But this is NO way to make any figure popular.

V4++ was to pay, OK.
Right, OK, but at the time where there WAS no competition at all.

Challenge set for those that want to try:-

LINK

Great Uncle LROG

I know it's all the rage to do morphs of 'regular people' and 'super heroes' and all.  But more than anything, with female characters, I just do old fashioned pretty girls/model types.  Is there anything in the new morph packs that help with that?  I'd gladly pay the price but I don't think I'd get much use out of those morphs.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - It's Dawn version 1.and Vicky is at version 6.

So not sure why where comparing D1 to V4.

This is a silly comparison. Do not go with figure version numbers, but time of release, and compare the mesh quality with the relative timeframe and technology available, not numbers.

I guess the sillyest part of it all is where comparing Chris's meshes to each other.

Think he was only involved up to V3.

You can see V3's topology in 4 and 4V's topology in V5 and V5's topology in V6.

Even if Chris is no longer part of DAZ company.Chris's mesh is.

If I make a mesh and others take it and modifie it.My part is still in the mesh.
So untill DAZ make's a new mesh from a cube Vicky's still Chris's creation no matter how much it's modified.

Quote - Hi RorrKonn, no probs, but it ALWAYS seems to be the same people complaining about Dawn, some with a bit of talant, but won't do anything for her.

Plus all this other stuff that has NOTHING to do with Dawn, she's not V4, Genesis or whatever, but it seems as if the mod cannot do their job and take it out.

Amazing that certain peoples comments dissapear VERY quickly, while other peoples friends stuff stays.

Great Uncle LROG

always the same, the exchange of ideas are interesting, until they same (dumbs is the word?) appear to hinder the conversation hoping to put your little sign "daz has ...." and any moderator and give them a good kick in the ass once and for all.

One idea, why instead of closing the thread , do not suspend people who interrupt the conversation, or maybe be a seller gives you the right to do whatever you want...

"So, perhaps those that have the talant could come out with better morphs, or is it just so much easier to complain about other peoples work and do nothing about it."

1. You can't morph a mesh if the necessary topology doesn't exist. Except for a complete re-topology, there is no way to create (much) better morphs.

(RAMWolfs and Mec4D's look somewhat better, but even those lack all the detail that other figures provide.)

1. Dawn is a commercial mesh. Why should someone make better morphs without getting paid from Hivewire ? It's their responsibility to make the official morphs.

(BTW, I actually made a free character/fix for Dawn that solved most of her problems, but Hivewire insisted on proper injection files instead of a simple RTE-encoding, so I can't say when or if it'll ever gets released. Not that I really care about it anymore anyway.)

Sorry, but these morphs are just bad.

Partly because the morpher stubbornly ignored human anatomy, partly because Dawn's mesh is badly designed.

I knew this would happen the moment I saw her messy mesh layout, but what do I know about morphing ?

Right.

It's over and there's noone other to blame than Hivewire.

Put her into the museum for odd Poser meshes right next to EVA and Renda and then move on.

@RorrKonn:

Well, it took DAZ seven years and a complete program rewrite to turn Vicky into something really useable.

Please remind me in seven years when Dawn has improved enough so I can try her out again. Problem is, in seven years from now her competition will have improved another seven years, too, and Hivewire will most likely have closed shop.

Perhaps Poser, too, maybe even DAZ, and instead of tediously rendering our virtual dollies in a "posing" program we simply take HD screenshots of photorealistic avatars that run on a game engine.

Just excuses, the challenge thread is there for those that want to do it, and I never said it should be done for free, I did say I would like to see them in a store in the near future.

Great Uncle LROG

"Just excuses, the challenge thread is there for those that want to do it, and I never said it should be done for free, I did say I would like to see them in a store in the near future."

Paid work usually means getting a deposit upfront and getting paid in full once the work is done.

Not allowing someone graciously to try selling his own stuff in the hopes of "maybe" making a profit.

Sorry, but I think I'll pass.

;-)

One person gets off the pot, next!!!!

Great Uncle LROG

Quote - Just excuses, the challenge thread is there for those that want to do it, and I never said it should be done for free, I did say I would like to see them in a store in the near future.

Great Uncle LROG

Well my excuse is I cannot morph and while I want to learn at some point I am not there yet.  Even if I could I do not see why I should have to make morphs just in order to make a figure usable.  If it was a freebee then maybe, but the morphs are not free and in my view not worth the money asked.

It is a shame, I really liked the idea of Dawn from the start and I really did want to use her but I don't see I should have to pay for something I will not use just to support a figure.  For some the mprphs will no doubt be value for money and they will get a lot of pleasure from using her, I am happy for them and wish them lots of happy rendering.  For me however Dawn has been a dissappointment so far and, as I do not have the skills, will continue to be so until there are some major improvements.

Just a personal view, not trying to upset anyone or insist my way is best.  The original title asked for Dawn's impact and more than one response said she needed the morphs.  Now they are available the impact for me is nil.

I have no problems with people wanting to learn to do things for whatever character they want to use. That's human nature, to want to learn new things.

It's the ones that have been around for a while, that do have the talent and scoff that they don't like things, but never go on to produce something that they say they could do better.

I've only scratched the top of Zbrush, but I can make a few morphs for myself, nothing as good as those that think they can do better with Dawn.

So, there are things I can do and produce, but if others think they can do better than those that have come out, that challenge thread is still there.

For those that want to go ahead and make a few morphs for yourselves, there are a few tutorials out there that may help (Google is your best friend) and I commend anyone who wants to learn.

Great Uncle LROG

However, it is not the individual artists' figure to save with official morphs. That falls to the model creator because that's the one that creates the standard for which content creators build upon. So really, the "if you think you do better, make morphs" comments aren't going to fly because the bottom line is, and what the conversation should be is how and not taken from, is how the official morphs, which content creators will build from, will affect the amount of content available now that they are available.

And still that remains to be seen.

A morph comes off the base mesh, the people who work with meshes have programs to work with them.

If RAM and MC4D can do it, then I'm sure others can do so.

Only the base mesh was used for the sculpting of the morphs.

Great Uncle LROG

I should have also mentioned Erics work as well.

Great Uncle LROG

I dont do morphs for money, only for me.

But, if I have not posted it somewhere in this thread:

http://www.sharecg.com/v/73045/browse/11/Poser/KarenV1-for-Dawn

I dont whine about what is available, I do what I need.

Bill

Quote - @RorrKonn:

Well, it took DAZ seven years and a complete program rewrite to turn Vicky into something really useable.

Please remind me in seven years when Dawn has improved enough so I can try her out again. Problem is, in seven years from now her competition will have improved another seven years, too, and Hivewire will most likely have closed shop.

Perhaps Poser, too, maybe even DAZ, and instead of tediously rendering our virtual dollies in a "posing" program we simply take HD screenshots of photorealistic avatars that run on a game engine.

The new Game Meshes and RealTime Renders are Killer.
I will not be buying any stock in Render Farms.

We have the tech right now ,today to make a software to have a
take HD screenshots of photorealistic avatars that runs on a game engine.

If ya had the $$$ and the knowlage to code all ya half to do is buy that code and there code.
glue it all together and we have Joe's real time character studio.:)
It's pretty much what Poser does.

We don't hear a lot about Games & HollyWood on this forum.
But believe me DAZ Poser HiveWire3D all are very aware.

Everyone knows of Chris Creek.one way or the other.
Bet Chris could work for any Studio he wanted.
Who wouldn't want Merlin in there corner ?

7 years ? let's not wait ,right now compare all the Softwares,Games Gallerys.

Quote -
It is a shame, I really liked the idea of Dawn from the start and I really did want to use her but I don't see I should have to pay for something I will not use just to support a figure.  For some the mprphs will no doubt be value for money and they will get a lot of pleasure from using her, I am happy for them and wish them lots of happy rendering.  For me however Dawn has been a dissappointment so far and, as I do not have the skills, will continue to be so until there are some major improvements.

Just a personal view, not trying to upset anyone or insist my way is best.  The original title asked for Dawn's impact and more than one response said she needed the morphs.  Now they are available the impact for me is nil.

I have also been anxiously awaiting these morphs. I have supported Dawn by purchasing quite a bit of content from creators. I have to say that I share your disappointment somewhat. The face morphs do not do nearly what I had hoped. If you look at the list of v4 morphs++ there are dozens more morphs that control the face. It was my hope that these morphs would free character creators like me who can do textures, but just do not have the knowhow or the money or the technical capabilty to morph in programs like Zbrush, but this morph pack does not have the versatiliy that I had hoped for. It is not the price that is the problem as with my points discount I only paid 23 for them, but I would gladly have paid 50 or even 100 for an extensive pack like morphs++. There were actually enough body morphs to satisfy me, but the face for me,  particularly the eyes and face shape including the ability to shorten that jaw and chin some are necessary to make the kinds of faces that I enjoy making. I still like Dawn and she does have a place in my runtime, but sadly will not unseat V4 at this time because her face is not versatile enough.

Popping back in to throw in with those disappointed with the morph pack. I'd purchased some things for Dawn, anticipating the morphs turning her into an easily-usable versatile figure, but I'm really let down. I can't see any character coming out of these morphs that doesn't look like it's obviously the same face with some very small changes. 

I've got Oriana, but outside of that package I really don't see myself using Dawn much until I have the skill to sculpt morphs myself...which may be a long time a'comin'.

Quote - I think I have contributed more to Dawn than most of those that have posted in this thread.

NDA does not allow me to say what.

Wow, Really?........

I like the new Dawn morphs.  I don't see anything wrong with them.  There's no nose tilt morph, and I thought there might be some breast enhancements...but really, some of the breast enhancements can get redundant.

I'm not much of a dial spinner, but even I could make a morph that looked something like the one that DNA is using to show off the Ishtar Hair (it's on sale, and it works with Dawn with some adjusting).  With the aid of the new Dawn morphs.   

I'm hoping that Surreality -- one of my favorite character makers who has yet to make a Dawn morph -- and others will do something with Dawn, now that there are more morphs available.  Texture Transformer is wonderful, but there's nothing like a good original character package.

I read that there aren't as many as V4 had, in her ++ pack, but this is Dawn V1 -- as someone pointed out.  :-)

I'm happy with the new morphs -- actually happier than I expected to be.  I really like the Bodysuit morph.  I've read that we can make a bodysuit for Dawn, in ZBrush, then work off that to make clothing.  I know everyone doesn't have ZB, but bodysuits can be made in other programs.  And it is easier to model around a morph than to guess-timate what a garment should look like.

Maybe we could give the new morphs a chance, before we bash them.  Pleeze?

Edit:  Willyb, thanks for that link!  I've been wanting to get your character.  :-)  Thank you for sharing.

Quote - I'm happy with the new morphs -- actually happier than I expected to be.  I really like the Bodysuit morph.

Thats supposed to be their overweightBodyObese morph:) Not a bodysuit.....

Quote - Thats supposed to be their overweightBodyObese morph:) Not a bodysuit.....

There could be body suit/spandex cuffs in there too. Haven't gone through the list to see, but the old DAZ figures had them so it's likely that HW included them too.

Also, many obese people do have rings around their wrists and ankles. Not all but a lot do. It depends on how heavy someone is, and how their body distributes fat, which is different for everybody. It can also be from water retention, which is common in extremely heavy people, especially women. Overweight pregnant women could also have them.

The rings could also be dialed out by blending with other morphs, or scaling. 

Just sayin. 

~Shane

Quote - Thats supposed to be their overweightBodyObese morph:) Not a bodysuit.....

No, unless I'm hallucinating, there's a bodysuit morph. :-)

You guys who are...evaluating -- you do have the morphs, right?

Jan, there's a bodysuit morph in the Starter morphs, but not in the new morph pack. The Head and Body Shapes are what people are finding underwhelming. 

My mistake.  :-)  Yes, I was just looking over the list at HW, to find the Bodysuit morph -- and didn't see it so decided it must be in an earlier set.  Duh...slap head.

But I found some new ones I'd overlooked, in my first experiment with the Head/Body shapes, so maybe that was the point.

I'm embarassed and going off to spin some dials.