amidst the battle of poser cpu usage, I am going to go on a small rant about the cloth room.
Do not get me wrong, I rather am fond of it.
BUT...why on earth does it take so long?
In MD it's BAM, done. Beautifully so I might add.
But in poser its agonizingly slow. I made the "robes" in MD. All went well, lovely, smooth fluid.  Seriously, made the whole outfit in about an hour.  Due to needing the train of it to fall down these long steps up a dais, I have to export the robes(one at a time, I can do the whole outfit but I feared it would be even worse of a wait in poser.) in OBJ format and import it to poser. I get everything lined up, fitted, parented, all the good things. Set the symo on one robe only. I give the effect of light silk and hit the "go"button. And wait...wait...wait...WAIT....
All the figure is doing is a very subtle move of half turn with her arms down, one slightly raised.
I start the symo pretty much from the position I want it to finish at. (read:back to the stairs so that it just has to fall) But seriously it is taking HOURS.

My issue? WHY does MD do it almost instant, but poser still cant?
Why cant smithmico up the ability of cloth symos to be as nice as MD?
=.=

What is "MD"?

Marvelous Designer.

The cloth and hair rooms only use one processor thread... :glare:

Look at the model, look for intersecting polygons, look for very high polygon count.

Are you colliding with hair, fingers or other intricate objects? If so there are work arounds to speed that up.

I've found that generally the cloth room moves pretty quick, if it slows down there is usually a good reason and the cause can be eliminated or at least minimized.

Poser Cloth sims do take ANY mesh of ANY geometry from ANY outer source as a cloth, handles multiple pieces of interacting cloth in one run, interacts with any number of non-cloth meshes (of any quality, from any outer source, in any moprhed or deformed state) and with dynamic hair as well, and correctly (!) follows the rules of mechanics with respect to gravity, wind & turbulance, eventual wave deformers, and with respect to conforming parts of even the same mesh it is directly attached to. The sim generates (even exportable) morph targets on a frame-by-frame basis and can address crowded scenes with multiple clothing sets. And it does so for about twelve years now.

Is MD up to all this?

In my - limited - experience, most Cloth Rooms in the world can handle their own internally defined clothes only. EDIT - I just read in another post that the recent MD3 update can import meshes. Let's find out what it does with all those badly welded meshes that are known to kill Cloth sims. Can you get Vicky seated on a chair wearing tight jeans or a multi-layered baroque skirt?

And actually, in my experience, taking into account it's single threaded, the sims are bloody fast unless there is something at hand with the settings, with the cloth mesh or with its interactions with the environment.

Personally, I think the agorithm as such cannot be made far much faster or efficient. But I also think there is some room for finding an improved semi-multi-threaded way of executing it. That might make a difference.

Darkelegance:

Have you tried exporting the stairs steps as an object into MD and doing the sim there?   

Have it as a part of your avatar... export the figure, in the start pose, along with the stairs out of Poser, then do what you would do for a normal MD sim and have the ending posed figure plus the stairs as the morph target.  Since stairs are usually a fairly simple mesh, MD should not have any problems.  I have done seated poses in chairs with this method.  

For aRtBee:  One of the reasons MD is so good, is that it is VERY forgiving of poke-through.  In fact, it resolves even extreme poke-through issues quickly, whereas, as has been stated often in this forum, Poser has problems with intersecting geometries.  Yes, Poser can do simulations from other sources, and do several other things that MD can't.  But MD is a young program compared to Poser, and it is still developing.

(Yes, I am a MD fan-girl!  grin)

I like MD's meshes, but I just can't wrap my head (or wallet) around the price.

Quote - Poser Cloth sims do take ANY mesh of ANY geometry from ANY outer source as a cloth, handles multiple pieces of interacting cloth in one run, interacts with any number of non-cloth meshes (of any quality, from any outer source, in any moprhed or deformed state) and with dynamic hair as well, and correctly (!) follows the rules of mechanics with respect to gravity, wind & turbulance, eventual wave deformers, and with respect to conforming parts of even the same mesh it is directly attached to. The sim generates (even exportable) morph targets on a frame-by-frame basis and can address crowded scenes with multiple clothing sets. And it does so for about twelve years now.

Is MD up to all this?

In my - limited - experience, most Cloth Rooms in the world can handle their own internally defined clothes only. EDIT - I just read in another post that the recent MD3 update can import meshes. Let's find out what it does with all those badly welded meshes that are known to kill Cloth sims. Can you get Vicky seated on a chair wearing tight jeans or a multi-layered baroque skirt?

And actually, in my experience, taking into account it's single threaded, the sims are bloody fast unless there is something at hand with the settings, with the cloth mesh or with its interactions with the environment.

Personally, I think the agorithm as such cannot be made far much faster or efficient. But I also think there is some room for finding an improved semi-multi-threaded way of executing it. That might make a difference.

MD is sweet. It can do multi layer clothing with real interaction. If I import vicki with a hair model on, it will work with that too. Its is utterly amazing. You can have silk, leather, heavy lace all in one go with barely any lag.

Quote - Darkelegance:

Have you tried exporting the stairs steps as an object into MD and doing the sim there?   

Have it as a part of your avatar... export the figure, in the start pose, along with the stairs out of Poser, then do what you would do for a normal MD sim and have the ending posed figure plus the stairs as the morph target.  Since stairs are usually a fairly simple mesh, MD should not have any problems.  I have done seated poses in chairs with this method.  

 

For aRtBee:  One of the reasons MD is so good, is that it is VERY forgiving of poke-through.  In fact, it resolves even extreme poke-through issues quickly, whereas, as has been stated often in this forum, Poser has problems with intersecting geometries.  Yes, Poser can do simulations from other sources, and do several other things that MD can't.  But MD is a young program compared to Poser, and it is still developing.

(Yes, I am a MD fan-girl!  grin)

 

@.@ I hadnt even THOUGHT of that! Oh but the stairs are rather large...But I am going to try this.

As for MD. OH MY WORD.

Poke through you say? HA! give a small tug abit of pull and you fix it -real time-. As in as the fabric is flowing.

Its amazing. I clearly remember thinking "I will never be able to use this(MD)" HA!

I say HA!

Once you learn how to do the seams etc...it is a breeze. you can make ANYTHING.

I have done full one Marie antoinette gowns with full lace upon lace upon lace ruffles in a couple of hours will amazing flow and fall of the fabric.

Robes? You want a robe falling over a full skirt with a tight body?

NO PROBLEM

As was stated, MD Is a very young program. If IT can do the cloth like that...why cant poser?

 and

Rosemaryr   is a GODDESS with the program. If you ever want to see what the program can do...go look at her work.

Quote - I like MD's meshes, but I just can't wrap my head (or wallet) around the price.

they have the free 15 day trial up again.....

Quote - Poser Cloth sims do take ANY mesh of ANY geometry from ANY outer source as a cloth, handles multiple pieces of interacting cloth in one run, interacts with any number of non-cloth meshes (of any quality, from any outer source, in any moprhed or deformed state) and with dynamic hair as well, and correctly (!) follows the rules of mechanics with respect to gravity, wind & turbulance, eventual wave deformers, and with respect to conforming parts of even the same mesh it is directly attached to. The sim generates (even exportable) morph targets on a frame-by-frame basis and can address crowded scenes with multiple clothing sets. And it does so for about twelve years now.

Is MD up to all this?

In my - limited - experience, most Cloth Rooms in the world can handle their own internally defined clothes only. EDIT - I just read in another post that the recent MD3 update can import meshes. Let's find out what it does with all those badly welded meshes that are known to kill Cloth sims. Can you get Vicky seated on a chair wearing tight jeans or a multi-layered baroque skirt?

And actually, in my experience, taking into account it's single threaded, the sims are bloody fast unless there is something at hand with the settings, with the cloth mesh or with its interactions with the environment.

Personally, I think the agorithm as such cannot be made far much faster or efficient. But I also think there is some room for finding an improved semi-multi-threaded way of executing it. That might make a difference.

http://digitalartofdarkelegance.daportfolio.com/gallery/851288 those are just a couple of the gowns I made. if -I- can make those...ANYONE can.  The black dress the billowing was done in MD literally in about two minutes. I exported the gown as an OBJ, brought it into poser and just placed it on the posed body and rendered.

Yes. What Rosemaryr said. Export the stairs into MD and drape the cloth there. I do that with all kinds of props and MD can handle it with no problem.

I love MD! I just wish I had a better idea of how real clothes work so that I could figure out how to make my patterns better. Unfortunately I have the real world sewing skills of a grapefruit and that really doesn't help to understand patterns!

Only problem I have with MD(2) at the moment is it's developed an annoying habit of bunching the cloth up madly like it's full of springs. That didn't used to happen so I've got no idea what's going on. It makes it a lot more difficult to work with :(

Quote - Yes. What Rosemaryr said. Export the stairs into MD and drape the cloth there. I do that with all kinds of props and MD can handle it with no problem.

I love MD! I just wish I had a better idea of how real clothes work so that I could figure out how to make my patterns better. Unfortunately I have the real world sewing skills of a grapefruit and that really doesn't help to understand patterns!

Only problem I have with MD(2) at the moment is it's developed an annoying habit of bunching the cloth up madly like it's full of springs. That didn't used to happen so I've got no idea what's going on. It makes it a lot more difficult to work with :(

try reinstalling MD and it should be ok then. I have that issue from time to time with odd quirks. But  reinstall always puts it right.

Quote - > Quote - I like MD's meshes, but I just can't wrap my head (or wallet) around the price.

they have the free 15 day trial up again.....

Keep in mind that MD replaces only one of the features of Poser, but costs more than Poser.  Maya or C4D cost what they do for a reason; If Poser isn't up to snuff for a job,  you'll need to use something else, but it will cost you...

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I like MD's meshes, but I just can't wrap my head (or wallet) around the price.

they have the free 15 day trial up again.....

Keep in mind that MD replaces only one of the features of Poser, but costs more than Poser.  Maya or C4D cost what they do for a reason; If Poser isn't up to snuff for a job,  you'll need to use something else, but it will cost you...

Isnt that the truth

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - I like MD's meshes, but I just can't wrap my head (or wallet) around the price.

they have the free 15 day trial up again.....

Keep in mind that MD replaces only one of the features of Poser, but costs more than Poser.  Maya or C4D cost what they do for a reason; If Poser isn't up to snuff for a job,  you'll need to use something else, but it will cost you...

You also have to renew your license either every year or month to use it legally. I'd rather just buy it one time and that's it.

Quote - > Quote - Only problem I have with MD(2) at the moment is it's developed an annoying habit of bunching the cloth up madly like it's full of springs. That didn't used to happen so I've got no idea what's going on. It makes it a lot more difficult to work with :(

try reinstalling MD and it should be ok then. I have that issue from time to time with odd quirks. But  reinstall always puts it right.

I tried that and going back to an earlier version so far as I remember and it didn't work unfortunately. :(

I just fired up MD to test and I've remembered what the problem is. It's the arms on loading the morph target. They turn into tiny little flat sticks and pull right into the body so there's no chance of the fabric being able to follow it properly and then they shoot back out again through the clothes and mess the draping up completely. I think that's why the cloth all bunches up. I'm sure it didn't always do this, but I don't remember it being something that happened after an update. That's why I haven't done anything with MD for a while, I'd forgotten it was so bad! I don't know if a setting that's changed or something. I did ask on the MD forums but didn't get a reply so I guess it's not a problem anyone else has. Hmmm.

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - Only problem I have with MD(2) at the moment is it's developed an annoying habit of bunching the cloth up madly like it's full of springs. That didn't used to happen so I've got no idea what's going on. It makes it a lot more difficult to work with :(

try reinstalling MD and it should be ok then. I have that issue from time to time with odd quirks. But  reinstall always puts it right.

I tried that and going back to an earlier version so far as I remember and it didn't work unfortunately. :(

I just fired up MD to test and I've remembered what the problem is. It's the arms on loading the morph target. They turn into tiny little flat sticks and pull right into the body so there's no chance of the fabric being able to follow it properly and then they shoot back out again through the clothes and mess the draping up completely. I think that's why the cloth all bunches up. I'm sure it didn't always do this, but I don't remember it being something that happened after an update. That's why I haven't done anything with MD for a while, I'd forgotten it was so bad! I don't know if a setting that's changed or something. I did ask on the MD forums but didn't get a reply so I guess it's not a problem anyone else has. Hmmm.

That's an issue of MD's calculations between the original and the morph target:  it runs a straight-line interpolation between the two points.  So, if an arm is down and to the left at the start, and is supposed to end up over the head on the right, MD will try to run the arm straight through the body to get there.  The work-around is to have a series of intermediate poses.  Gradual changes work best.

Quote - That's an issue of MD's calculations between the original and the morph target:  it runs a straight-line interpolation between the two points.  So, if an arm is down and to the left at the start, and is supposed to end up over the head on the right, MD will try to run the arm straight through the body to get there.  The work-around is to have a series of intermediate poses.  Gradual changes work best.

Yeah. That's how it used to work for me, but now even a fairly small change in pose sends the arms flying in and out insanely. I think it must have been one of the updates that did something weird, but I can't get it back to how it was. Ho hum.

Actually,I wonder if the simulation runs too fast when the morph target loads. Is there a way to slow it down? Then maybe the cloth can catch up....

But anyhoo. Draping stuff on stairs works well in MD! :)

Quote - Anyhoo - just to demonstrate MD can manage draping over the stairs (with short sleeved dress to avoid exploding arms!) :)

O.O ooooh that is going to help. So I bring in the stairs with V4? or as a "scene prop"? I have never tried that to be honest. Though when I did the french dress I had the "bustle" on V4 when I saved her as a OBJ so it would fall correctly(I tried to make the bustle in MD but it just flopped literally. I inflated it and everything)

Load up everything you need in Poser - figure (in T-pose), stairs and any other props if they will affect the cloth draping, (eg. shoes). The stairs need to be in the scene, but don't need to be very close to the figure, give yourself room to fit the cloth to the avatar in MD, but not too far away that MD has to work too hard moving the morph target into position.

Export the whole lot to MD as an object (just like you would if it was the figure only), use as your avatar and drape your cloth on the t-posed figure.

Back in Poser set up your scene with the posed figure on the stairs (like Rosemaryr said, if the pose is quite a long way from the t-pose then you might need some stages in between). Export the whole lot again as an object and import to MD as your morph target. Hopefully you'll end up with everything beautifully draped on the stairs!

Attached pic. shows the figure and stairs set up as the original avatar so you can see I've left some distance between them to give myself room to work on the cloth in MD.

Remember, you can use the grab-and-pull with the mouse to adjust it after the draping occurs. 

Anothe trick to consider, is having the dress train start shorter than the intended length, (in order to ease the initial drap sim), then gradually extend it by degrees to the final length.   That way MD really has to work with the newest length in the calculations.  See the example...it starts as a floor-length gown, and I extended the back portions (and pulled the train around to the front to show it off.)

(Although, looking at it, I would tweak the hands' positions after this in Poser... since the original pose was meant for something else....but that doesn't affect the dress work.)

 (And that extension of the train took about 5 minutes, of which the most time was spent real-time tweaking the position of the drape with the mouse pulling during the sim run.)

And for EClarck1894: Yes, it costs.  

But, so did my Poser habit before I bought MD.  

I have not purchased ANY clothing set for over 3 years now, because now I can make the clothing I want, for the figure I want to use, and customize it instantly.  ...Even from those artists I adore for their creativity, like Aeon/Airy Soul for example.  That savings alone is equal the price of MD.  My only Poser purchases now are skin textures, hair and building/environment sets, and there aren't nearly as many of those in my carts these days either.  (There are only so many fair-skinned females I need in my Runtime! grin)

(And there is a (non-subscription) 'perpetual' price which gives the option of 'buy it one time and have it' which you would prefer.)

Quote - .... I have not purchased ANY clothing set for over 3 years now, because now I can make the clothing I want, for the figure I want to use, and customize it instantly.  ...

Yes, even with my desperate lack of sewing skill I now make most of the clothing for my figures in MD rather than buy it. I'd never buy any Poser dynamic clothes.

Well, I admit I haven't bought any clothes for a while either, especially since I've learned to make my own in Blender. But Blender was free and it also has a cloth simulator, Although I don't know if you can import other meshes and clotherize them. It'd be interesting to find out.

The thing I like most about MD though is how easily it does things that I struggle with in Blender, like doing gathers, and pleats, and details like that.

Quote - Well, I admit I haven't bought any clothes for a while either, especially since I've learned to make my own in Blender. But Blender was free and it also has a cloth simulator, Although I don't know if you can import other meshes and clotherize them. It'd be interesting to find out.

The thing I like most about MD though is how easily it does things that I struggle with in Blender, like doing gathers, and pleats, and details like that.

grin  To each his own!  I never could get my head around the methods of 'traditional' modeling for clothing.  MD just perfectly fits the way I think, is all.  

I use Blender to model the props to go with the MD clothing, but I can't see myself ever needing to use it to create the clothes themselves. Maybe for solid armour, but I'm happy with MD for clothes.

Quote - Well, I admit I haven't bought any clothes for a while either, especially since I've learned to make my own in Blender. But Blender was free and it also has a cloth simulator, Although I don't know if you can import other meshes and clotherize them. It'd be interesting to find out.

The thing I like most about MD though is how easily it does things that I struggle with in Blender, like doing gathers, and pleats, and details like that.

MD is fast and easy. You can make a full wardrobe in a day. Complex outfits too.

How do MD clothes stand up to making them conformable?

Quote - How do MD clothes stand up to making them conformable?

I do not know. I had thought of asking someone to make the marie antoinette dress conformable but....

Hi to the OP:
Take into consideration that MD is a modern ,purpose built cloth engine
and the poser cloth "room" is a vestigial add on ,purchased by one of posers many previous owners , from "size8 software"

MD , to my knowledge, makes only tri's, and no quads.