twice i've spent my pp14 upgrade money. not on poser.
once in a while i check it for a good sale price, but it won't help if deep down I don't want it.

i want archvis, terrain, and sss skinned people. sometimes together in one render. 

it bugs me when the picture on the poser box, isn't in the box.

ROFL. You left out Z-Brush, as long as your building that sort of wishlist.

I hear you. I was just thinking maybe a look-see at what 3DS Max would cost.

...

Are you kidding me!? Seriously? A no-subscription perpetual license is $3675!

Ok forget that - not for hobby use.

MLP - which Poser do you have now?

"i want archvis, terrain, and sss skinned people. sometimes together in one render. "

Then stop spending money on the poser application itself and
and invest in an alternative solution that will easily render poser content Like Vue  or the reality plugin for LUX

here are your archvis renders in Vue:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/?page=Gallery&index=0&cat=1

here are your poser people in vue
http://www.cornucopia3d.com/portfolio/fabrice-delage
I probably dont need to show you any terrain samples

I have not upgraded from poser 6 because I use C4D and sometimes VUE /modo to render my poser content.
before that I used to import to bryce for rendering.

there are many options out there beyond waiting on an all in one solution from SM.

Cheers

I'm on PP12. 

coming to terms with the renders i want to make, the firefly engine limits, my salary limits, luxus learning curve,  ... Totally depressed ...

Quote - I'm on PP12. 

For my money, the difference between 12 and 14 was night and day.

But then, it all depends on where you are hitting the brick walls.

What is NOT going as you wish? What features/lack thereof are standing in your way?

http://hellboysoto.deviantart.com/art/LUXUS-362283287

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030WOGG4

I don't see any people.

I guess what I'm asking is, what about PP12 is not getting the job done for you?

Wouldn't that be a lack of content issue then? 

It does seem a bit more difficult to find quality scene builder content than clothing and accessories, but rooms and various props like that are still out there, if you can't build it yourself.

And as for rendering, PP2012 and 2014 are capable of producing some very nice, quality renders without the need for external rendering apps. It's really all in the material settings and light setups that you use.

Still kind of confused at what the issue is.

However there does seem to be an overall fade in the active community lately. Pretty much its boiled down to just a handful of the same people participating in the forums on a daily basis. That of course is no way to judge how much Poser is still being used, since plenty of content is still being made for the MPs. 

~Shane

I know how you feel, MistyLaraPrincess.

I want real outdoor scenes like the Harpwood County series that is sold over at DAZ for Carrara.

There are two Stonemason "woodland" scenes for Poser that render reasonably well, but anything with a meadow and realistic shrubbery is nearly impossible. I want a real horizon, a real feeling of outdoors.

Displacement grass is only good for lawns, not real grassland scenes. And with lots of layers of transparency, Poser slows down to crawl.

But I simply can't muster up the energy to really learn one of the better progs like Cinema, Vue or Carrara.

I also think I painted myself in a corner with Poser's weightmapping, because, while those progs can import Poser figures, they won't recognize PP-2014 rigging.

So all my elaborate rigging work would be for nought, and I would have to start over again. I could have gotten the exact same results with just JCM fixes, but I was too eager jumping on the weightmapping train.

So, yeah, except for the MorphBrush and a slight speed enhancement, PP-2014 was a big fat letdown. (Positively no use for the "fitting room" or other "features".)

Some things got more convenient, but there is no real difference in the quality of the stuff I make now compared to a few years ago because the tech hasn't really improved.

Anything beyond a single figure cheesecake is still an uphill fight.

I know PP-2014 is cheap compared to other progs, but I'd rather paid more and have the functionality I want.

And then you look at games and see figures even way more realistic than Poser can do as well as truly photorealistic scenery and everything is in realtime and all without having to fix shaders and building lightsets and you think:"Why bother anymore trying to make things work in Poser?"

The problem is, if you want realism, Poser has hardly moved on in the last 6 or 8 years.

And if you lower your expectations and just accept everything "as is", you could have been just as happy by sticking with Poser 6 or 7.

blender can do all your asking for and at a nice price ;-)

but it can drive you totaly nuts!!!!

it's the same old battle with the hair room.

i need terrains for Dragons, volumetrics for Mermaids.

I admit poser has become much more complex over the years, which may be why many are struggling and others found poser 6 all they could manage.   maybe SM should supplement the "make art" button with a "realistic scene" button.  then we could just click the buttons and go watch wrestlemania or dumpton abbey whilst poser does its magic.

i appreciate the poser breakthrough with sss skin. better than fastscatter, lol.

have no idea how collada export works with poser wm, never tried it.

Quote - I don't see any people.

I guess what I'm asking is, what about PP12 is not getting the job done for you?

you didn't look at the render by hellboy? 

Quote - And then you look at games and see figures even way more realistic than Poser can do as well as truly photorealistic scenery and everything is in realtime and all without having to fix shaders and building lightsets and you think:"Why bother anymore trying to make things work in Poser?"

I think the majority of the added features in PP2014 are intended for content developers looking to make content for use in Poser. So if you aren't a content developer, it probably doesn't seem to be that much of an upgrade.

But you can convert any figure to single skin and then export via COLLADA and bring your figures into max/maya, Unity or UDK, if you want to see what it's really like working inside a game engine. The learning curve isn't that steep if you have the patience.

I don't think its realistic to expect Poser to incorporate all these features that only a very small percentage of its userbase would ever actually use. That's not cost-effective for any business model. It's intended primarily for portrait style rendering or small scenes and that's what the majority of its users use it for. Beyond that it provides tools to port your work to other more advanced software if that's what you want or need to do. Maybe you've just outgrown Poser and need to start looking at learning more advanced software that better suits your needs. 

Blender is free. Unity3D and Unreal Engine are both free. They're the top 2 engines for indie artists. If you took the time to learn how to port models into Unity, then I think you'd see first-hand the differences between a game engine and its shortcomings, vs Poser and its shortcomings. You still have to build lighting and shader networks for a game engine, unless you want to always be stuck with using its prebuilt stock lighting, which usually isn't very inspiring. 

~Shane

Quote - blender can do all your asking for and at a nice price ;-)

but it can drive you totaly nuts!!!!

oh god isnt that the truth.

Quote - > Quote - I don't see any people.

I guess what I'm asking is, what about PP12 is not getting the job done for you?

you didn't look at the render by hellboy? 

 

if I remember correctly hellboy uses DazStudio and reality for it.

Yup I just checked the link you showed(one of my fav pieces by him, it was what made me want REALITY)

He uses DAZSTUDIO and lux.

I know....Daz does beautiful skin.

Quote - > Quote - And then you look at games and see figures even way more realistic than Poser can do as well as truly photorealistic scenery and everything is in realtime and all without having to fix shaders and building lightsets and you think:"Why bother anymore trying to make things work in Poser?"

I think the majority of the added features in PP2014 are intended for content developers looking to make content for use in Poser. So if you aren't a content developer, it probably doesn't seem to be that much of an upgrade.

But you can convert any figure to single skin and then export via COLLADA and bring your figures into max/maya, Unity or UDK, if you want to see what it's really like working inside a game engine. The learning curve isn't that steep if you have the patience.

I don't think its realistic to expect Poser to incorporate all these features that only a very small percentage of its userbase would ever actually use. That's not cost-effective for any business model. It's intended primarily for portrait style rendering or small scenes and that's what the majority of its users use it for. Beyond that it provides tools to port your work to other more advanced software if that's what you want or need to do. Maybe you've just outgrown Poser and need to start looking at learning more advanced software that better suits your needs. 

Blender is free. Unity3D and Unreal Engine are both free. They're the top 2 engines for indie artists. If you took the time to learn how to port models into Unity, then I think you'd see first-hand the differences between a game engine and its shortcomings, vs Poser and its shortcomings. You still have to build lighting and shader networks for a game engine, unless you want to always be stuck with using its prebuilt stock lighting, which usually isn't very inspiring. 

 

~Shane

Unity and unreal arent free.....unless I am missing something. Blender is

Quote - Unity and unreal arent free.....unless I am missing something. Blender is

For personal use and learning/self training, both engines are free downloads from their respective sites. You only have to buy licensing for them if you intend on selling the game you build. I'm not sure what Unity's terms are for free distribution on what you build.

Unity Pro is an add-on, that's not free.

http://unity3d.com/unity/download

Unreal engine follows roughly the same model, except I don't think they have a pro version for sale. The whole package is free for personal use. You can even distribute what you make with it without having to license it. If you're selling what you make then you have to buy the $99 license, and then no royalties until you've hit $20K in sales.

If you want to modify the source code, then you have to buy a license. Otherwise, most functions in it can be done with Kismet, which is UDK's node-based scripting system.

You can also build content for it and sell without licensing, since content doesn't require the actual engine.

https://www.unrealengine.com/udk/downloads/

All the details and FAQs are at those links. I'm more familiar with Unreal than I am with Unity. 

~Shane

Quote - > Quote - Unity and unreal arent free.....unless I am missing something. Blender is

 

For personal use and learning/self training, both engines are free downloads from their respective sites. You only have to buy licensing for them if you intend on selling the game you build. I'm not sure what Unity's terms are for free distribution on what you build.

Unity Pro is an add-on, that's not free.

http://unity3d.com/unity/download

 

Unreal engine follows roughly the same model, except I don't think they have a pro version for sale. The whole package is free for personal use. You can even distribute what you make with it without having to license it. If you're selling what you make then you have to buy the $99 license, and then no royalties until you've hit $20K in sales.

If you want to modify the source code, then you have to buy a license. Otherwise, most functions in it can be done with Kismet, which is UDK's node-based scripting system.

You can also build content for it and sell without licensing, since content doesn't require the actual engine.

https://www.unrealengine.com/udk/downloads/

All the details and FAQs are at those links. I'm more familiar with Unreal than I am with Unity. 

 

~Shane

AHHHHHHH in that case I may try them.

Attached Link: Nightsong+Terradome

To get an idea of what you can do with it, here's a link to Nightsong's DA gallery using Terradome (I'm biased because I love her work).

 /edit-- This is a Poser recommendation. Terradome won't work properly in DS.

For grass, trees and plants, I recommend EvilInnocence's Digital Alchemy plugins.  They are not stock props.  Each one is single plant with infinte possiblities. 

You can find them at CP or EvilInnocence's own store. 

oh ,I could right a book but I'll compress each chapter to a sentence or two.

even Max,LW etc etc use Vue or app's like Vue for forest.Vue's just a plug for MAX,LW etc etc.

zBrush,Poser,Vue,C4D does what they do.but C4D ,Max etc etc has plugs like Poser,Vue .

So if you want to do it all.ya need ALL the app's & a lot of $$$.
You can make a Single Render that cost $10.000 + years to learn softwares +learn to model map texture rig light render.

If your render cost $500.00 & there's cost $10.000.Can you exspect them to be = ?

Games look killer because thay have KILLER TEXTURES !!!

I swear I'm not putting any emotions in to this I'm just spitting facts.
But input = out put.
If you put a little in ,you get a little out.
If you put a lot in ,You get a lot out.

Your only get so far with one app.
The more App's you have the farther your get.
It's your choice as to how far you go.

Quote -

I think the majority of the added features in PP2014 are intended for content developers looking to make content for use in Poser. So if you aren't a content developer, it probably doesn't seem to be that much of an upgrade.

~Shane

I love ya man, but you are as wrong as a soup sandwich on this.

Poser Pro 2014 isn't designed for the Load, Conform, "Make Art" brigade (Poser Debut will meet their modest needs). 

Poser Pro 2014 is designed for people that have moved beyond NVIATWAS.  Poser Pro 2014 is designed to leverage all of your content. 

Every single figure I own is a brand new figure.  Problematic figures like P6 Jessi are no longer problematic.  I can move easily to any figure that tickles my fancy & I don't have to worry about what the figure will wear.

On the other hand, Poser Pro 2014 makes content vendors a little less relevant.  I take that back, it makes vendors a lot less relevant.

With the fitting room, any figure can wear any figure's clothing. Clothing vendors have become less relevant.

Thanks to the add-on framework, items like the Hair Control System means that I can easily fit hair made for 1 figure onto other figures.  Hair vendors become less relevant.

That framework also allows for products like EZSkin and the upcoming EZMat program to clean up and make old content useable with the newer features of 2014.  Figure vendors become less relevant. 

With the Reality plug-in, I don't bitch about the firefly engine, I just use it for simple previews. 

Since I have really started to work 2014, my wish lists have changed dramatically.  Nowadays, it's mostly props and merchant resources.  As far as clothing, all I really need are shoes (The final frontier for conversions).

There's normal maps,displacement maps,vector maps.DAZ Studio has SubD levels like zBrush but I can't think what they call it.

JoePublic : What's DAZ call that ?

To make maps like these you need sculpting tools like zBrush or Mudbox have.
and a Wacom tablet.

Anyways any of these methods would make detailed maps like hellboys.
in any app inclueding Poser.
Poser has displacement maps & I think normal maps.

JoePublic : Carrara Pro is on sell for $142.50 inclueds V5,M5 pro bundle.
Not making any suggestions .I don't know much about Carrara.
I've always looked at Carrara as another DAZ Studio render engine.

I new and spent years in trusSpace,LW .but it's not all irrelevant now in C4D.

If you can rig in one app ya can rig in any of them.:)

Quote - For personal use and learning/self training, both engines are free downloads from their respective sites. You only have to buy licensing for them if you intend on selling the game you build. I'm not sure what Unity's terms are for free distribution on what you build.

Unity Pro is an add-on, that's not free.

http://unity3d.com/unity/download

 

Unreal engine follows roughly the same model, except I don't think they have a pro version for sale. The whole package is free for personal use. You can even distribute what you make with it without having to license it. If you're selling what you make then you have to buy the $99 license, and then no royalties until you've hit $20K in sales.

If you want to modify the source code, then you have to buy a license. Otherwise, most functions in it can be done with Kismet, which is UDK's node-based scripting system.

You can also build content for it and sell without licensing, since content doesn't require the actual engine.

https://www.unrealengine.com/udk/downloads/

All the details and FAQs are at those links. I'm more familiar with Unreal than I am with Unity. 

 

~Shane

If I used Unity or UE for machinima or a graphic novel, would that count as personal or commercial use when I am not distributing the executable code?  I have never gotten a clear answer when asking this before in other forums.  I'd like to be able to sell a graphic novel or receive revenue from Youtube, but even in the best case would not be getting anywhere near enough money to license either engine commercially.

Quote - blender can do all your asking for and at a nice price ;-)

but it can drive you totaly nuts!!!!

Last I checked there were still many issues to consider when importing Poser content into blender...  Two that come to mind are blender's materials per mesh limits and swapped axes.  I was really hoping someone would have undertaken a proper conversion tool to automate the process...  Then maybe I could try getting my head around navigating in blender and its key-centric interface. 

If I'd never used another 3D program before, blender would be just about perfect... 

I expect to gradually move toward a combination of Reality/Lux for indoor stuff and Vue for outdoor.  I've just grown too comfortable with Poser to make a clean break. 

Quote - Poser Pro 2014 isn't designed for the Load, Conform, "Make Art" brigade 

Isn't that pretty much the same as saying PP2014's new features are geared more towards content creators? I should have included content customizers as well, but I thought that would have been understood since there's not a whole lot of difference. Both require digging in and changing or creating things to suit your specific needs. And all content creators aren't vendors. I make most of my own content. I'm not a vendor. 

Quote - On the other hand, Poser Pro 2014 makes content vendors a little less relevant.  I take that back, it makes vendors a lot less relevant.

With the fitting room, any figure can wear any figure's clothing. Clothing vendors have become less relevant.

That's one way to look at it. Except that you still need someone else to create new clothing if you can't do it yourself. The only thing the fitting room really does to vendors is alleviate the die-hard focus of only one figure being supported, since now, a lot of existing clothing can be fit to most any figure. It's not a fool-proof method tho. There are some items that only work with the figure it was designed to work for. Sure you can make it work, but it will never look quite as good as it does on the figure it was intended for. It's always a case-by-case basis, and if the clothing was designed poorly to begin with, (and there is a ton of poorly designed clothing out there), then it will fall apart in the fitting room no matter how much you mess with it. The only way to fix some pieces is by welding them together properly in an external modeler and then bringing them back into Poser, which will then require more work to get it ready for the fitting room. I do think its a good feature tho. I just don't see it being the vendor-killer you seem to think it is. Vendors can also use it to make a new piece fit multiple figures, or go back through their older catalog and update the items they made years ago to work with newer figures. I haven't seen any examples of this being done so far, but it's potentially an untapped market for veteran vendors, since it makes the process many times faster than before. There are still plenty of Poser users who don't have PP2014, and that will likely be the case for a while.  

Quote -
Thanks to the add-on framework, items like the Hair Control System means that I can easily fit hair made for 1 figure onto other figures.  Hair vendors become less relevant.

That framework also allows for products like EZSkin and the upcoming EZMat program to clean up and make old content useable with the newer features of 2014.  Figure vendors become less relevant. 

With the Reality plug-in, I don't bitch about the firefly engine, I just use it for simple previews. 

Hasn't the add-on framework always been there? I thought thats how Poser has expanded over the years.

Reality isn't PP2014-specific. It's available for P9/2012 and P10. Same with EZSkin, and I'm sure EZMat whenever it comes available. Not sure which hair control system you're referring to as there have been several over the years, but I don't remember anything in PP2014 referring to hair. 

Quote - Since I have really started to work 2014, my wish lists have changed dramatically.  Nowadays, it's mostly props and merchant resources.  As far as clothing, all I really need are shoes (The final frontier for conversions).

Clearly you have benefitted a lot from the fitting room, and that's great. My comment was about PP2014 specifically, and how most of it's new features are intended for content developers/customizers, not necessarily vendors (or average users - who won't even use the morph brush to correct poke-thru unless they absolutely have to).

Since we're talking specifics, lets look at the actual features:

There are only 5 additional features in PP2014 that aren't in P10 or PP2012:

• The Fitting Room

• Copy Morphs From Figure to Figure (which can be done in the fitting room, so that's not really an extra feature, it should be included with the list of fitting room features, and Poser really doesn't know the difference between an actual figure or a piece of clothing - they're both figures. but, marketing and all that... )

• Display Hidden Channels (can be done by editing a cr2)

• Change Calculation Order of Channels (can be done by editing a cr2)

• Copy/Paste Weight Maps

There may be one or two more that I missed, but I don't think so as I've looked over the comparison chart several times just tonight. So technically, without discounts, you'd be paying $185 additional for those 5 features, as opposed to just $65 for all the OTHER features that P10 has over PP2012. For some, the fitting room alone is well worth the extra $185. It would definitely save money for some people in the long run, since that's that much less they have to spend on additional clothing/accessories. But is it really worth $185?

Not trying to bash Poser, and I don't regret my upgrade as I've been using it rather extensively since release day, but I've never actually looked at the price differences compared to features until now, so yeah feeling a bit hood-winked on that one. Ah well. I will definitely be thinking twice when PP2016 releases. If it's another $250 just to upgrade from PP2014 as it was from PP2012, those new features had best be serious, massive improvements to the entire program across the board, or something major that I desperately need - and so far I can't really think of anything that major. I didn't mind paying $250 to sidegrade from P7 to PP2012, as the advances and improvements were well worth it, IMO. This time, not so much. 

~Shane

Quote -  

If I used Unity or UE for machinima or a graphic novel, would that count as personal or commercial use when I am not distributing the executable code?  I have never gotten a clear answer when asking this before in other forums.  I'd like to be able to sell a graphic novel or receive revenue from Youtube, but even in the best case would not be getting anywhere near enough money to license either engine commercially.

You would need to ask Unity or UE them selfs what they consider personal or commercial use.

Could always ask around about app's engines for machinima.

I thought Blender has a realtime render engine.

Free trueSpace has a realtime render engine.
easy to use probably not the best quality thou.
any 3D card as far as I know.

but most n best realtime render engines require a Real time 3D Card.
better the engine n card better the renders.

Quote - I swear I'm not putting any emotions in to this I'm just spitting facts.
But input = out put.
If you put a little in ,you get a little out.
If you put a lot in ,You get a lot out.

Indeed.

I know of one artist who uses Firefly exclusively, and his skill with Poser's lighting system and Material Room has progressed to a point where his renders look almost comparable to what Reality/Lux can do.

Unfortunately, he doesn't post here, and anyone wanting to see his work would have to register for access to the forum he frequents.

Quote - "i want archvis, terrain, and sss skinned people. sometimes together in one render. "

Then stop spending money on the poser application itself and
and invest in an alternative solution that will easily render poser content Like Vue  or the reality plugin for LUX

here are your archvis renders in Vue:
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/?page=Gallery&index=0&cat=1

here are your poser people in vue
http://www.cornucopia3d.com/portfolio/fabrice-delage
I probably dont need to show you any terrain samples

I have not upgraded from poser 6 because I use C4D and sometimes VUE /modo to render my poser content.
before that I used to import to bryce for rendering.

there are many options out there beyond waiting on an all in one solution from SM.

Cheers

I know there was a reason I switched to Vue ;) I was going to suggest Vue as well..... There's not a day I regret not upgrading to the newer versions of Poser, but spending the money on Vue instead. The possibilities that have opened up for me now thanks to Vue, I still can't get over it :) The combination Poser & Vue is a very good one, Poser stuff intergrates very well with Vue.

There is a backdraw though..... Vue wants a lot more CPU and Memory then Poser does, I had to get some different hardware.

Quote - twice i've spent my pp14 upgrade money. not on poser.
once in a while i check it for a good sale price, but it won't help if deep down I don't want it.

i want archvis, terrain, and sss skinned people. sometimes together in one render. 

it bugs me when the picture on the poser box, isn't in the box.

I want to make a full length motion picture. That ain't happened yet either.

Odd question but what picture on what Poser box does the OP want?

I thought Alyson2 with the Anastasia morph was on the current Poser boxes.

IIRC, the boxes for P6 and up all use the stock figures. 

Or is it that you want the pic as an included pre-made scene?

"stuff like rooms with people in it

http://hellboysoto.deviantart.com/art/LUXUS-362283287

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0030WOGG4"
....................luxus learning curve,  ... Totally depressed ..."

Hi your links above take us to a poser/Daz figure rendered in LUX
and a set of Architectural interior models for Maxon Cinema4D
( I happen to own that particular set from Dosch BTW),

I understand budget limitations but frankly you dont seem interested in actually learning another render app, even a free on like LUX, that supports your CURRENT library of poser content

so I cant see how this qualifies as a shortcoming of poser per say.

Sorry but it seems  to me like you have general "other"App envy .

has anyone tried the cornell test box in Vue?  or the room with the checkered floor?

are the shadows accurate?  what about the shmootz? 

wow so much passion ;-)

not gonna try an quote all

if you aint tried blender lately give it a whack

anno the r/click is a pain but soon becomes a habit

someone (think Reddog) was making a plugin(addon for poser) not sure what happened there

takes a day or more to rig a poser doll in blender (rigify)

more time if you want a facial rig (way better then morphs)

but after all that work

you dont want a ready made doll/poses /clothes

"growing/rolling/brewing" your own is so much fun

and as for render engines, FF is ok If you sort mats etc out

cycles is awesome ten times faster

octane is even faster(will be my next purchase lol) someone heres made a poser plugin for that(forgot who  soz )

try it if you can !! it will blow you away !! move a light and its like shining a torch in a dark room

i dunno.  if it was possible to render the cover ladies from what came in the box, i couldn't find them.

I am still having fun with Poser although I do like Vue for landscapes and the ablility to use Poser content with it.  I did however stick a Vue 8 Esprit as I found it expensive to keep having to buy the same modules over and over again.  I suppose it is a plus that you can buy a cut down version and add the modules you want but I really had problems buying the same modules again, particularly as there was no 'upgrade deal'.

The other issues I have is time, in that learning the materails and Ecosystem is difficult and trying to use the terrain modification tool is next to impossible with my hardware. 

I am not saying Poser is easy but as I am so far away from finding Posers limits I tend to concentrate my time on leaning that rather that Poser and Vue.  I guess it is different for those that are pushing against the bounderies of what Poser can do but for someone doing 3D as a hobby there seems to be limited ways to go at that point, assuming of course you have limited funds.

Quote - > Quote - Odd question but what picture on what Poser box does the OP want?

I thought Alyson2 with the Anastasia morph was on the current Poser boxes.

IIRC, the boxes for P6 and up all use the stock figures. 

Or is it that you want the pic as an included pre-made scene?

 

i dunno.  if it was possible to render the cover ladies from what came in the box, i couldn't find them.

on the back of the pro 12 box they talk about a lot of app's.
So it's hard to tell what they where rendered in.
Don't think the fire demon is all poser.

http://www.coverdude.com/covers/poser-pro-2012-v900-build-16510-front-cover-94473.jpg

Quote -
Hi your links above take us to a poser/Daz figure rendered in LUX
and a set of Architectural interior models for Maxon Cinema4D
( I happen to own that particular set from Dosch BTW),

I understand budget limitations but frankly you dont seem interested in actually learning another render app, even a free on like LUX, that supports your CURRENT library of poser content

so I cant see how this qualifies as a shortcoming of poser per say.

Sorry but it seems  to me like you have general "other"App envy .

I was about to suggest taht the Architectural interior wasn't all that realistic, and could have certainly been rendered in Poser.  Looks like omni lights were placed by the ceiling to simulate light, there's no IES patterns on the walls, and everything is perfectly reflective.  Looks like standard raytracing to me (not path tracing).

The characters on the Poser 2012 box, at least on the covers, were probably rendered in Poser too.  There's nothing there that couldn't be done in Firefly.  Probably some postwork in an image editor.  The artist is Syyd Raven.  Syyd does render with Poser, from the past work I've seen, and does great work.  She's the owner of RuntimeDNA.

If I want to do landscapes, I use Blender. The software is free so I paid for some training (Andrew Price's nature academy and a Blendercookie membership). Blender complements poser nicely. You can make nice landscape props in Blender and use them in Poser. Trees, ivy and plants too. You can render landscapes in Poser, with the right environment domes and props...Rooms with people in it, with SSS on the people, even several people that's no problem for Poser. If you can't do that with Poser, the problem doesn't lie with the software.

You can use an unbiased renderer with Poser if you want and if you have the patience - Reality 3 for money or Pose2Lux for no money, I believe there is a plug-in for Octane as well, for money. But Firefly does what I need and does it faster. I have decided that unbiased renderers aren't worth the wait. It's up to you.

I paid the full price for Bryce 7, just before Daz made it free. I don't use it anymore, ever. It crashes too often, renders too slowly, makes horrible trees and I get better results from Blender, even with the internal renderer. So I don't think Bryce is the answer, but your mileage may vary.

MistyLaraPrincess, you sound a little vague. If Poser isn't the right tool for you, perhaps you should try Vue as suggested here. Just checked the Vue prices and features - If I were to use it, I would need at least the Studio version, otherwise there just wouldn't be any point. That's $400, $600 for the complete version....No, can't afford that right now.

As you said, it is about what you want, what you want to do, what you are prepared to pay and what other options you have.

I haven't paid for a version of Brice since Brice 3D.

I've been watching this thread, and I'll offer my 2 cents on the subject (and that's probably all it's really worth).

Regardless of the software used, getting good or great renders is a lot of work (at least in the beginning, or anytime for me). It’s typically less work as you gain knowledge and experience, but the learning process must certainly be considered in the cost, or investment, to creating great images. There will be a lot of costs associated with using a different software to render with. The costs include the price of the software, the learning curve, the hardware required, content and presets available, etc. Some software will be less costly than others. Some will be more costly in one area than the others. For example, Blender is "free", but due to it's complexity, the cost of learning it is rather high. Of course once you begin to get comfortable with it, your investment could pay great dividends.

Hellboysoto is certainly a master of his craft. Using both Lux and DS/3Delight, his work is outstanding, but also his knowledge of shaders, lighting, and the software he uses is outstanding. That knowledge, combined with his natural artistic talent, gives him that edge that makes his work so amazing. If Poser was his tool of choice, I have no doubt that he would be creating equally beautiful renders. His natural talent gives him a big advantage over us mere mortals, but with a lot of effort and work learning how to make the best use of our software, we can at least come close (or maybe in my case hope to come close).

I think it's important to keep in mind an application that one person finds very easy to get good results with, another person may find nearly impossible to use. I struggle with Poser lighting (not as much as I used to though), but have always found lighting and shaders in Carrara very intuitive and easy to use. Octane, Lux, and some lighting in DS is also easy for me. I mention this, because the right software fit makes getting the results you want much more enjoyable, which typically translates into better images.

Speaking of Carrara, it might be worth a look if you are finding Blender a bit too difficult. It has many of the features you have expressed an interest in, and is much easier to learn than Blender is. It would also help to get you used to working with a different shader system and render engine. Landscaping in Carrara isn’t as good or sophisticated as Vue, but in the right hands it can be used to create some beautiful and amazing landscapes.

If you really want to get into using an unbiased renderer, then LuxRender via pose2lux would be a great free way to start, or Reality 3 makes using Lux quite easy. But of course, your renders will take a lot of time. Octane with the Poser plugin is truly amazing and you get unbiased speeds with a biased renderer, but it’s not cheap (IMVHO it is worth every penny though, and the best 3D investment I have ever made).

Vue has a very high quality render engine as well, but as others have noted, you would probably want to have at least Vue Studio. But you could start off with Frontier, upgrade to Vue Esprit if you like it, and then gradually buy the modules to have Vue Studio or Complete. I have Vue Studio, but started with Frontier. There is quite a bit to learn with Vue, so it would be best to try a demo first (I don’t use it much – hope to “someday”).

I’m sure others have a different view on this, but IMVHO, if you want renders like those you have shown and linked to, you could get very close with Poser (in some instances just as good). You could get equal results in other applications that have been mentioned. But even with Octane, if the renders are done at decent size (over say 2400 x 2000 pixels) the renders will take time to complete. That time will typically be measured in hours (or days?), not minutes, unless you can throw some major hardware at it as well. The render time may also be rather small compared to the time spent setting up the scene, and tweaking the shaders.

Finally, I think it’s important when you are asking questions, or for advice sort of like what you have asked here, that you take a look at the gallery(s) of those who offer advice when available. The reason I say this is because everyone has a different style, and sometimes you get what seems like perfect advice from someone, but don’t realize that they really don’t do what you are trying to accomplish (or it can also be the opposite, someone sounds like they don’t have a clue, you look at their work. and realize that they are doing exactly what you want). It’s not that anyone is trying to mislead you; it’s just a communication gap. By looking at the work they do (if it’s available, and hopefully, it is a true representative sample), you gain a lot of incite and context for their comments. That is why I typically encourage people to look at my gallery when I talk about results using different software/renderers. One look at my gallery, and they may realize that my work is nothing like what they want to do, or that while what I said sounded good, but my work doesn’t back up what I said. It just helps to put my “advice” in context with what they are trying to achieve. So, if I have said something here that seems of interest to you, especially in reference to Lux, Octane, or Carrara, please look at my gallery to ensure that the quality of my work might be what you are looking for (or that I’m just full of hot air).

There are two ways to get great renders from Poser. The first way is to  just get lucky and you get a really great render. The problem with that is you don't really know what you did to get such a great render so you don't know how to do it again.

The second way of course is to simply learn how to use Poser' features to your best ability.

Quote - The other issues I have is time, in that learning the materails and Ecosystem is difficult and trying to use the terrain modification tool is next to impossible with my hardware.

Hmm, let's see.... I'm using Vue 2014 and Vue 10 on a laptop with an i5 2.5Ghz (2 cores, 4 threads), ATI 7450m 1Gb and 6Gb of RAM. Compared to your system that is nothing at all. I'm working on the laptop creating the scenes and rendering on my PC with the same CPU as you do have (i7 3770, but only 16Gb of RAM and no graphics card, using the internal Intel one).

Saying that using the terrain modification is next to impossible on your hardware makes no sense what so ever. My laptop can even do terrain modification easily, no problem at all. I can create massive scenes on the laptop (check my gallery), but I can render them due to lack of memory, that's why I use the i7 with 16Gb. I do all kinds of modification in my terrains and I haven't run into a problem at all.

I honestly think that your problem is not your hardware but your software. You using outdated software on a quite modern system. Vue 8 was released over 5 years ago in a time when most of us used single cores and we started to switch to dual cores and beyond. Vue 9 and 10 had quite some changes to utilize the more powerful hardware available.

Saying that an i7 with 32Gb isn't good enough for terrain modification just doesn't cut it, then most of us wouldn't be able to do it. Perhaps it's time to update your hardware and enter the new world of Vue :)

Quote - Saying that an i7 with 32Gb isn't good enough for terrain modification just doesn't cut it, then most of us wouldn't be able to do it. Perhaps it's time to update your hardware and enter the new world of Vue :)

I have no issue with anything you have said and, with the newer version of software, you are clearly in a better position to give information on performance.  So thank you for correcting that, I would hate to think that anything I added to a thread would mislead anyone.

I like Vue a lot but I still feel slightly betweena rock and a hard palce in that I either have to buy a full version, with the resulting costs, which means I purchase all the great features, many of which I will not use.  The other option is to buy a cut-down version and buy the add-on modules, which I have no objection to doing except I hate buying the same modules again when there is a new issues of software.  OK if there is new funtionality but in many cases the module is just a tweak to make it work with the latest software. 

Others may be fine with that or have the money to buy the full package but I struggle to justify the cost.  Hence the reason I am still at version 8.

I still love Vue and think is it a great program just that the marketing does not lay easy with me - personal thing.

I do understand your situation, Vue is a very expensive application to keep up to to date, but so are most other applications :) I've been on Vue 6 for ages, but finally last year upgraded. The only thing I can tell you is that going from Vue 8 to Vue 2014 is a huge step, also for some of the modules. I cannot justify buying Vue each year, but going from 6 to 10 and then 2014 is totally worth it and so will going from 8 to 2014 :) The only shame is that E-On doesn't do sales :(

E-On has demos of each version these days which you can test for 30 days or so, so that may be a good option to find out what the changes are and how your machine handles all the improvements.

Quote - E-On has demos of each version these days which you can test for 30 days or so, so that may be a good option to find out what the changes are and how your machine handles all the improvements.

Thanks for that tip, as soon as I have enough free time to make full use of the thirty day trial I will give that a go.  It is a lot of money so I need to see what improvement I would get without having to update my hardware.  On the other hand I have a birthday in a few months so if I like it I might put it on my birthday list. 

Good plan :) I did get the new Vue for my birthday at the end of last year.

The Poser 7 box is Sidney.

The Pro 2012 box is V4 wearing an outfit by AerySoul (what they were known as at the time).  They haven't released it at RDNA and I don't know if they will.

The original image was and probably still is in the RDNA galleries.  You would have to ask the artist but believe it was done in Poser.