Well, the only image I ever posted of her was that Roxie Interview and I didn't feel weary of doing so even though she's nude.  To post such a young character with the other adult meshes would have required a morph.  She's the youngest looking mesh in the Runtime that isn't a child, like I say, I'd put her 18-22.

I don't see her figure as boyish, just down to earth, and her mesh is infinitely more realistic than Sydney, for example.  I think a lot of the models look as if they have breast implants whereas Roxie doesn't.

Those boobs could double for cannon balls, they just don't look as realistic as Roxie's to me.  That said, maybe I do have an odd preference for what I feel looks realistic, I even like the face on Roxie (very human looking) but it's obvious a few here don't think so (which I find very strange).

Regards curves, you might be surprised at how little difference there is between Roxie and Sydney if you were to backlight them and compare.

It depends on whay I'm creating. My realistic renders using poser figures are mostly illustrations for books. I want the figures to be realistic, yet also pretty. I must agree with Basicwiz..... it is easy to turn a good looking figure into an ugly one, yet turning an 'ugly' figure into a beatiful one is hard, even too hard.

So, I use the statuesque beauty and turn into what I need. The down to earth ones cannot achieve this.

But... yes there's always but. If you look at Vicky, Genesis and Dawn base, they're not statuesque beauties at all. They can be morphed into statuesque beauty, but there base are prerry down to earth figures. Now the what we would consider down to earth figures, like roxie and so on, are not down to earth at all, they're just ugly. Seriously, some of the poser figures look like they've escaped from some kind of horror institution, looking so creepy you almost get nightmares. I'm not saying that's only the case with non-DAZ figures, anyone using DAZ kids knows they're very creepy as well. It just shows it is very hard to make figures for Poser and before you know you've created something creepy or ugly while going for down to earth.

Male figures don't seem to have this problem so much, at least they didn't used to have it. Dork, Don & James are very down to earth figures that are very easy to use and they look normal, although again morphing them away from there base look is a challenge. Simon is a bit harder to work with, he has this kind of secret agent look which is hard to get away from. The girls though have more problems, while Judy & Jessi are good to use, they border ugliness if you're not careful.

The newer native poser figures after these, male of female are just plain ugly in my opinion and no mather how much you morph them, they never break loose from it. I never use them, I go back to the older ones or go use V4/M4. Same goes for Antonia, imo, she's just not all that good. I do find My Michelle nice looking, but she doesn't offer me anything I don't have with V4 already and again, she has limited use.

So, I stick to V4/M4, Don, James, Jessi and Judy and depends what I need. These figures I can turn into anything from ugly, down to earth and pretty. All the other figures are too let's say particulair, but most of them I do find ugly or way to super model like. Poser included models have become uglier with every release, while Genesis seems to become more and versatile. Someone needs to create a good poser model that is versatile, people keep on releasing models that are too limited.

So, it's not really a matter of being down to earth or statuesque beauty, it's more a matter of being to recognizable model and getting away from the base look is too hard, That counts for some of the super model like figures as well as the ugly ones.

I know many cry for an average looking figure, but let's face it, we've got more then enough of them around, yet no one wants to use them, except for a few die hards. We all want to use the pretty ones :)

@booksbydavid..... none of your images comes even close to V4 at all. While they may seem attractive to you and who can argue with something being attractive, that's pure taste, they still aren't pretty. That's the whole thing.... a pretty girl is pretty for about everyone one, but a pretty girl will not be attractive for everyone. That are 2 different things. When it comes to being statuesque beauty, your images aren't even close, niether are the girls pretty as lot's of V4 images are, imo.

"... none of your images comes even close to V4 at all. While they may seem attractive to you and who can argue with something being attractive, that's pure taste, they still aren't pretty."

Seriously, that second one is attractive to me as well, very much so.  Wouldn't say no to her, I love that look.  She reminds me of one of the girls in the Brazillian horror "Embodiment of Evil".

Just grabbed a frame from the Blu-ray to show you.  David's girl reminds me of one of the babes in the black gear (you'd have to watch it to understand why).

The babe on the slab (also hot), that's what I see as a Roxie-type figure ;-)

I don't know if I would call Roxie  boyish, but yeah teenish will work. If you've ever seen a online porn, her body isn't unlike many of the girls you see there. Many of the older women are basically just taller and most times bigger, well, more boobflesh.

Yeah, I watch porn. I'm a guy, get over it! Most of us do!

EClark, no, it's just you mate :biggrin:
(MetArt rocks, it's full of Roxies).

Quote - I don't know if I would call Roxie  boyish, but yeah teenish will work. If you've ever seen a online porn, her body isn't unlike many of the girls you see there. Many of the older women are basically just taller and most times bigger, well, more boobflesh.

Yeah, I watch porn. I'm a guy, get over it! Most of us do!

lol. 

Seriously tho, watching porn is one of the best ways to really learn about human anatomy, as most of the actors are physically fit and you see them in all the different poses and contortions that the human body is capable of. This was one of the pointers that I was given by college instructors in both human anatomy drawing classes and character modeling classes. A lot of the reference images I use come from the naughty side of google, and i have scads of it. 

A lot of colleges in the US and Canada (and I'm sure throughout Europe as well) are teaching various itterations of "porn as art" or "porn as literature" (LOL on that one) type classes today as well, I'm sure mostly just to break the taboos of it and piss off parents, but the taboos need to be broken anyway. It's a completely nonsensical issue really. The internet wouldn't be nearly as massive as it is today without porn. HD video cameras got their foothold because of the porn industry, some sources say they were actually developed BY the porn industry, and the vhs vs betamax war from back in the 1980s was decided by the porn industry. It's the #1 entertainment industry in the world, dwarfing music and holywood combined. Because no matter who you are, how old or where you're from, sex is a natural part of life. Without it we don't exist. 

So yeah. be proud of your porn watching, cause everyone does or has, and we all have a fetish, whether they'll admit it or not. Just don't make a mess ;)

~Shane

Quote -
lol. 

Seriously tho, watching porn is one of the best ways to really learn about human anatomy, as most of the actors are physically fit and you see them in all the different poses and contortions that the human body is capable of. 

Nice one. I shall have to use it some time; though, to be sure, straight girls usually don't have to rationalize their online "entertainment" habits for their partners. :D

porn ,LOL ,it's only good from a ant's point of view.

You can learn about Anthropometry ,Human Ratios ,Human Anatomy.
The 600 or so human muscles & 300 or so bones.
The Golden Main .

Get a real girl and study her ,live and in person.your learn a lot more.

I've drawed topology on my girlfriend from head to toe to see better topology bends.

Quote - Nice one. I shall have to use it some time; though, to be sure, straight girls usually don't have to rationalize their online "entertainment" habits for their partners. :D

lol no need to rationalize. Just think of the educational aspect as an added bonus. Plus who knows, you'd be surprised what it might do for your personal life. granted, that could go either way.

Eh, I'm single, so I don't have to worry about who I piss off. Course, I never worried about that even when I wasn't single. LOL. Deal with it or get out. That's my motto. 

~Shane

Quote - > Quote -

lol. 

Seriously tho, watching porn is one of the best ways to really learn about human anatomy, as most of the actors are physically fit and you see them in all the different poses and contortions that the human body is capable of. 

Nice one. I shall have to use it some time; though, to be sure, straight girls usually don't have to rationalize their online "entertainment" habits for their partners. :D

Unless you're a pk (preacher's kid) most girls don't have to rationalize it to their partners. Men just show their appreciation more. Can't hide it really, it sticks right out there.

BTW, speaking of reference photos... Does anybody know how to convert the prices on 3D.sk to American dollars? I don't even know what monetary unit that is they show.

It's in Euros. one month is about $35. I think it might be cheaper per month if you pay for a few months at a time. 

~Shane

google can convert euros to dollars

1 euro = dollar

It changes daily or hourly or something

I'd test drive a month to see if ya want to invest a lot of time.

AmbientShade with a motto like that ,there's no need to tell us ya single.
Men have all the ego ,women have ALL the power.
I know the truth hurts.

Is there a limit on how many downloads per month you get?

EClark1894 you have all these post and 20 diffrent things going on at one time.

What is your CGI plain and where are you getting to with CGI ?

Quote - Is there a limit on how many downloads per month you get?

http://www.3d.sk/site/subscribe

Quote - EClark1894 you have all these post and 20 diffrent things going on at one time.

What is your CGI plain and where are you getting to with CGI ?

I work security, so sometimes when I work overnights I just get to talk. When I'm at home I'm just learning. I'll try one thing one day, and something else the next. yeah, I might have two or three things going at one time, but a lot of times things are really slow on this forum.

http://www.3dscans.sk/photo_sets/search/query//thumb/small/standard/1/premium/1/category-573/3D%20Whole%20body%20scan/page/1

Here's what I was talking about the difference between Real Girls ratios & Art/CGI Girls ratios

http://www.3dscans.sk/photo_sets/search/premium/1/standard/1/thumb/small/orderBy/chronology/page/5

more pages

@Shane
You asked me what I meant by "safe teen" and pointed out that you don't want to bash anyone (but sort of bashed yourself by saying it).  I'm just curious why you haven't replied to the comparison I posted for you:

• So, do you still see a boy with a glandular problem?
• Or, do you see an adult with a boob-job stood next to her?

Regards the porn debate; have to say I wouldn't feel the need for porn if I had a partner, don't see the point in it.  Would feel disrespectful even, I'd be worried I'd loose her!  Shane's take on that is pretty much the same as shown in a lot of American programs and movies they show over here.  What's even more amazing is that it seems to be a popular one!

I have a very different opinion on that one, and I absolutely detest those sites that actively encourage cheating on your partner for a "quick shag with a local".  Granted, porn isn't exactly cheating with another partner, but you're still looking at another girl while you're getting what you get out of it.

oh, come on . Roxie Boyish? Childish? really???

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2441489&user_id=225791&np&np

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2445215&user_id=225791&np&np

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2447716&user_id=225791&np&np

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2477101&user_id=225791&np&np

Quote -
I have a very different opinion on that one, and I absolutely detest those sites that actively encourage cheating on your partner for a "quick shag with a local".  Granted, porn isn't exactly cheating with another partner, but you're still looking at another girl while you're getting what you get out of it.

Okay, getting a bit off topic, but I did want to make a quick reply to that last statement. One of the things that often confounds me is women's attitude towards men watching porn. Somehow, they seem to regard it as a form of cheating. Actually, they seem to regard ANYTIME a man does something sex-oriented that isn't centered on her as cheating. That even includes masturbation. But, take a look in the drawer of almost any woman who is over the age of 21 and most likely you will find some type of self stimulating toy. In others, a dildo, or vibrator, or a book of some kind (Fifty Shades of Grey).

Wow, Timberwolf, they look bloody nice and don't have the slightest hint of Victoria to them like the majority of renders out there do.

Go Roxie! :-)

" Actually, they seem to regard ANYTIME a man does something sex-oriented that isn't centered on her as cheating."

Of course.

Because it's competition.

Once a man discovers he can have a happy sex live without a certain orifice, he can't be blackmailed into obedience any longer.

;-)

**
@EClark**
True, but a toy isn't human.

If I caught a partner sleeping around she'd be out of the door even before she could put her knickers back on, and more than that, she would never set foot back in that door - ever.  If I caught her looking at pictures of naked guys while getting off to them, I'd be just as pissed off but would want to know what I'm doing wrong.  If I caught her with a toy, same thing, I'd want to know what I'm doing wrong, or perhaps more to the point - what I'm not doing.

Surely a sexual partner is in a position to tell you what she wants, so the only reason she'd need to use a toy would be if you either aren't or can't deliver what she wants.

Anyway, like you said, it's getting a bit off-topic - lol

Oh, hell, too late for that with me. I discovered that a long time ago. If it wasn't for the fact that I just REALLY love women, I'd probably be gay just so I wouldn't have to deal with them.

lol@JoePublic

"Wow, Timberwolf, they look bloody nice and don't have the slightest hint of Victoria to them like the majority of renders out there do."

I agree, these ARE very nice renders. I especially like the face in the second one !

But...(Sorry, but there is a BUT),

These morphs could have been just as easily (Actally more easily), been made with a mesh like Genesis. And they do nothing to solve Roxie's grave topology and rigging problems. And some details like her flattened toes are still messed up as you can see in the last pic.

So even if default Roxie had looked like that, after one look at her topology, my judgement would have been exactly the same: Not useable.

A figure's default "looks" are a great help to sell her.

But a good figure needs much more than just good "looks" to be useable and stand the test of time.

Remember the original "Millenium Woman" Vicky wasn't actually that pretty at all when compared to Posette.

These are some great morphs, really nice, but let us put the myth to rest that "Not being pretty enough" was the only reason any non-DAZ figure so far has been a total failure.

In case of doing Porn-pics with Poser , you have to have proper joint bendings on your figure or it will just look weird. So Poser porn is the ultimate challenge test for the  rigging of your figure.

Haven't loaded-up Posette in years, but yup, I clearly remember her being the prettiest from way back :biggrin:

I remember a render I did of her, with her head back and arms out.  I liked it that much I even postworked it, I was really chuffed with it.  Then my mother walked in and said, Len, women don't look like that (I'd morphed the nipples a bit too much).

I was too embarrased to look her in the eye for days after that.

**
@Timberwolf**
Nice arse!

you all herd these saying before ?

put ya money where ya mouth is.
show me.
talks cheep.

untill I see a at least 10 minute long video.
showing me what either character can do ,well then ,there just another mesh.

Quote - oh, come on . Roxie Boyish? Childish? really???

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2441489&user_id=225791&np&np

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2445215&user_id=225791&np&np

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2447716&user_id=225791&np&np

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=2477101&user_id=225791&np&np

Definitely not boyish. Very nice work there.

Quote - > Quote -

I have a very different opinion on that one, and I absolutely detest those sites that actively encourage cheating on your partner for a "quick shag with a local".  Granted, porn isn't exactly cheating with another partner, but you're still looking at another girl while you're getting what you get out of it.

Okay, getting a bit off topic, but I did want to make a quick reply to that last statement. One of the things that often confounds me is women's attitude towards men watching porn. Somehow, they seem to regard it as a form of cheating. Actually, they seem to regard ANYTIME a man does something sex-oriented that isn't centered on her as cheating. That even includes masturbation. But, take a look in the drawer of almost any woman who is over the age of 21 and most likely you will find some type of self stimulating toy. In others, a dildo, or vibrator, or a book of some kind (Fifty Shades of Grey).

LOL. "Women's attitude"? That generalization doesn't even hold true in the small population of this forum. :D The person you're quoting -- who thinks it's bad to watch porn if you're in a relationship -- is a dude, no? Me, I'm a girl, and I have no issue with my partner watching porn. And anyone -- man or woman -- who thinks his or her partner shouldn't masturbate needs a strong cup of mental wake up.

These researchers intended to compare the sexual habits of men who watched porn to those who didn't. But they failed because they couldn't find any who didn't:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/08/18/research-suggests-all-men-watch-pornography_n_930349.html

Anyway, to steer the subject somewhat back on topic: how do your partners feel about you spending considerable amounts of time staring at, judging (sometimes very, very harshly), fixing, and morphing 3D nude models? In some forums, I've seen people (men and women, customers and business owners) compare it to porn (unless the figure doesn't have nipples or genitals, that is). I find that ridiculous. What I do find interesting is just how perfect many us expect our digital dolls to be.

In this very thread, some of the images posted were dismissed because the girl depicted wasn't the right sort of sexually attractive to some viewers.

Does a figure have to be "doable" to be usable?

QUOTE:***
*"The person you're quoting -- who thinks it's bad to watch porn if you're in a relationship -- is a dude, no? Me, I'm a girl, and I have no issue with my partner watching porn. And anyone -- man or woman -- who thinks his or her partner shouldn't masturbate needs a strong cup of mental wake up."

WTF, yes I'm a dude, but no, I never said a partner shouldn't masturbate, lol, you make me sound like some old prude!

I didn't say a partner shouldn't watch porn, either, come to think of it.  It was just a casual post.  I wouldn't be happy if a partner was watching porn to satisfy something I should be satisfying, what man would?  On the other hand, I'd have no problem watching porn with her as a turn-on, none whatsoever.

And what EClark said about women and their toys:

Say I had a long distance driving job, something like that, hell, I'd probably buy her a toy myself, just for fun!

• Well this is it, gotta go babe.
  - Not again!
• Yeah, but I'll be thinking about you and only you.
  - What's this?
• It's a present, something to keep you happy while I'm gone.
  - Awwww, babe!
• Woah, not yet, you're not allowed to open it until midnight.
  - Why, is it like a Gremlin or somethin'?
• You never know, just remember, not until midnight!

Midnight arrives:

- OMFG, it's a 10-inch lady-pleaser!
- You even bought Duracel for a longer pleasure time - you're so thoughtful babe!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Now admit it, if you had a guy like that you'd want to hang on to him, right? :woot:

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

QUOTE:***
***"In this very thread, some of the images posted were dismissed because the girl depicted wasn't the right sort of sexually attractive to some viewers.****Does a figure have to be "doable" to be usable?"

*Back on topic:

My opinion is she wouldn't need to be doable to be usable, but I reckon she'd have to be seen as doable for better sales (but that's just a guess).  I certainly wouldn't waste my time producing a dog, not intentionally, anyway.

The porn references are REALLY derailing an otherwise worthwhile thread. Can we get back on topic, please?

I agree, it got very derailed.

I'm just glad I got my reply in to moriador in time. I absolutely had to clarify what I meant in reply to EClark's porn statement because I doubt there's many more open-minded than I am, no sir :-D

They don't call Wiz "The Threadkiller" for nothing!

lol, yeah, it's gone really quiet now :-P

Quote - They don't call Wiz "The Threadkiller" for nothing!

Only 14 days and you won't have wiz to kick around anymore.

What were we talking about?

Saw the sticky just last night.
Hope you enjoy your retirement, wiz :-)

**
@David**
Your guess is as good as mine :-D

Quote - Anyway, to steer the subject somewhat back on topic: how do your partners feel about you spending considerable amounts of time staring at, judging (sometimes very, very harshly), fixing, and morphing 3D nude models? In some forums, I've seen people (men and women, customers and business owners) compare it to porn (unless the figure doesn't have nipples or genitals, that is). I find that ridiculous. What I do find interesting is just how perfect many us expect our digital dolls to be.

In this very thread, some of the images posted were dismissed because the girl depicted wasn't the right sort of sexually attractive to some viewers.

Does a figure have to be "doable" to be usable?

No, it doesn't need to be doable to be usable, but considering what the majority of add-on content for female Poser figures consists of, it does need sex appeal to garner enough support and pull it from the clutches of niche. Maybe she just looks too young. Pumeco has already said he sees her as a "safe teen", which translates to "Barely Legal" and Timberwolf's renders - as nice as they may be - just furthers that image. 

With her clothes on she does look like a young teen - 15 to 16 at most. Could also be why I think she has a boy's body in her default pose, as many teens - male and female - are virtually indistinguishable in body shape. I'm 39. I don't see girls that age as attractive, I see them as children. Anything below about 25 is a child to me. I know myself that it doesn't take a lot to make her more feminine and adult looking, but you don't get that impression until you actually start working with her for a bit and building your own morphs, cause none of the morphs she comes with really do much. 

Presentation has a whole lot to do with appeal as well. Why are figures still loading in their default T-Pose? It takes 5 minutes to pose a figure in a natural, more human relaxed state to load in from the library. Leave the T-pose for the OBJ and the walk designer - that hardly anyone uses anyway. 

~Shane

Well, I find them attractive at 15 or 16, just not sexually. Girls from 18 to 25 come across as a little vapid to me, although I will admit they're on the outer fringes of my sexual radar. Kind of a shame when you start thinking of a 25 year old as a kid.

You asked me what I meant by "safe teen" even though I'd already explained it in the same post where I made the statement.  Then you ignored the reply and comparison I posted for you.  Now you're putting words into my mouth.

To clear this up once and for all:

Your take on a safe teen is the polar opposite to mine.  Safe is the operative word in my statement.  By "safe" I mean someone who is clearly of age - and that's the exact opposite to barely legal.

I personally don't see Roxie as "barely legal" as you put it.  The difference with barely legal is that it's come to mean a girl that is legal, but usually doesn't look so.  That's the opposite to how I see Roxie.  I see Roxie as a teen you could safely use without being labeled a perv - hence why I referred to her as a "safe teen".

I was surprised that you'd chosen to morph Roxie into a mature adult, that's all.  There are endless amounts of those in the Runtime.  Like I said, Roxie is the only safe teen we've ever had in the Runtime (as standard I mean) - and that's a good thing.  Not everyone is a fan of women with massive breasts and epic buttocks.  I personally think massive breasts look ridiculous, and that women who have boob jobs simply cannot see the beauty that men see - otherwise they wouldn't destroy their body like that.

Look at the girl attached to this post, an extreme example of a Roxie.

They don't come any more flat-chested than that, she's still gorgeous, still beautiful, still statuesque.  Most importantly in this context, she's clearly of age.  I'm not sure how she'd take to being labelled a child, but I'd probably make sure my hands were covering my balls before I said it :-D

Like you said in a previous message, it's all about preferences, and yours is for black-girl booty :-P

Mine has changed over the years.  I'm roughly the same age as you, but up until the last maybe five, six years or so, I always had a preference for the statuesque, usually brunettes.  Now though, I'm attracted to curvy looking women as well, and often to blondes and redheads.  I still like statuesque every bit as much as I always have done, but I have a lot wider pallette of preference now, than I did then.

Like it or not, the web is full of 18-19 year-old Roxies with thieir clothes off, in fact "teen" is the most popular genre in the industry.  I think it's good that we finally have a mesh in the Runtime that meets that genre when you consider how many of the renders out there, are of nudes.