Quote - I agree that it would have been a better option for SM to promote their own figures instead of taking Dawn aboard.

Miki4 is a good figure.
Roxie is a good figure, she still could use some rigging finetuning, but it is a good figure.

Ach, let us all hope that the "next" generation of Poser figures comes with a ton of content to start with.

Indeed.  the G2 figures could be good figures too if they were weightmapped and slight fixes to their meshes...

Quote - Looking at the original question and the recent responses tends to suggest that, if SM does not promote it's figures then it is a foregone conclusion that they do not listen.  It could be that they do listen but have decided that spending time with content is not their game plan.

There was a similar thread about two weeks ago questioning whether SM should concentrate their efforts on software features or conent and there were a number of users who felt they should conentrate on the software and not content.  That is not to say there weren't a lot of people of the opposing view but, I suspect, that while someone from SM will have read the thread, I doubt very much if either view influenced SM very much.

I do think supporting Dawn is a good idea and I do not see it makes them beholding to Hivewire any more than DAZ in the past, or Rendo and RDNA for that matter.  The fact is SM, rightly or wrongly, appear to see the software features is a higher priority and I doubt little said on this forum or any other is going to change that in a hurry.

 

This makes sense to me, and I have to agree. I don't see the idea of SM suddenly trying to compete in the content market to have a huge likelihood of success.

I do think they need to update older figures so that they at least WORK with the content supplied that is supposed to work with them. When you have to coach newbies on how to adjust joint parameters just to get James' footwear to fit -- James! -- it doesn't make SM appear to be a quite on top of things.

Other than that, I wouldn't mind seeing Content Paradise improved, and a little more quality control employed in filtering its offerings. Right now, I don't buy anything there that isn't made by a vendor I'm very familiar with. But that's just me.

On the other hand, I suspect that we in the forums are the 1% of Poser users. I mean, why not listen to us, since the other 99% probably isn't nearly as vocal? But I still wouldn't go so far as to base a business plan on what we say. I'd rather trust my own sales figures and in-house marketing teams who have spent some time figuring out what the other 99% of their customers want.

Customers may know what they want for themselves, and it's great if they communicate that. But they don't necessarily have a clue how to actually run a software business.

I make content for the native Poser figures. That includes Roxie, Miki4, etc. I don't see SM promoting  either figure much, especially Roxie. That said, I would like to see Content Paradise, which I view as a separate entity from SM, start promoting  those figures more.  As well as the content and vendors in their store.

I love you guys, but seriously, your child-like faith in the vendors is seriously misplaced.

It doesn't matter what features are added to Poser - the vendors are aggressively uninterested in moving beyond the Poser 6 feature set.  Just how do you propose to get vendors to leave Poser 6 behind? 

If I had a nickel for every time a vendor told us over the past decade that "I'm an artist, I make what I want (and I don't want to make products for ", I could clear out my wishlist.

In 2014, I should not be having to spend time converting .pz2 to .mc6s, yet I have to with almost every purchase.  Even with figures that are Poser 9+ only.  We have people still making .rsr files for god's sake.

SM added the fitting room to Poser because the vendors are simply not interested in making content for any figure not named Victoria 4. 

The interesting part is going to be what happens as more and more of us outgrow the Poser 6 vendors.

Quote - I love you guys, but seriously, your child-like faith in the vendors is seriously misplaced.

It doesn't matter what features are added to Poser - the vendors are aggressively uninterested in moving beyond the Poser 6 feature set.  Just how do you propose to get vendors to leave Poser 6 behind? 

If I had a nickel for every time a vendor told us over the past decade that "I'm an artist, I make what I want (and I don't want to make products for ", I could clear out my wishlist.

In 2014, I should not be having to spend time converting .pz2 to .mc6s, yet I have to with almost every purchase.  Even with figures that are Poser 9+ only.  We have people still making .rsr files for god's sake.

SM added the fitting room to Poser because the vendors are simply not interested in making content for any figure not named Victoria 4. 

The interesting part is going to be what happens as more and more of us outgrow the Poser 6 vendors.

I think vendors get set in their ways of doing things. I never really learned ow to create the .pz2's so I  do the .mc6's. But when you've been doing something for  ten years or more, it just becomes second nature.

Happens when dollars prevail over quality.

Which happens when a market is perceived as a way to make money, when it is actually a very tight squeeze and highly competitive.

@ssgbryan

Vendors are people. And there are probably as many types of vendors as there are of people. Not exactly a homogenous group.

Admittedly, there does seem to be a strong streak of conservatism. But that goes for all businesses, especially when the customers are even more conservative.

The problem Eclark is that if you get set in your ways, you get left behind.

I am not learning how to model in Hexagon because I want to be a vendor - I am doing it because vendors are only interested in making hookerware for V4.  I am not a third-rate Frazetta or Elvgren wannabe, so less and less of what is being made is of interest to me. 

The problem I am seeing is that the end-users are starting to outpace the vendors.

But isn't that why most people learn to model? I mean, surely most people don't load Blender etc for the first time with the primary intent of selling their creations? I always thought they did it because believe they'll enjoy the process and/or they can't find what they need in the marketplace.

In that sense, the limitations in the MP are fuelling creativity in the end user.

As has been said before, the users here on the forum are a very small part of the Poser users worldwide.  We have many differences but generally the people here are looking to learn more about Poser or help others to do so.  I would suspect that also means that our renders tend to be slightly different to the norm. 

We have to live with the fact that the relative low price of Poser, and the availabilty of Daz Studio,means that a large percentage of users are going to use it for 'Pin Up' type art.  No problem with that if that what makes you happy but it does mean that they are probably going to be the main customers for vendors.  They are simpy not interested in the likes of the material room or any modelling program, they just want to make their renders as simply as possible. So skimpy clothes becomes the main proposition, a situation compounded by the fact that many who want to push Poser then create their own clothing and do not buy at all.

Of course this is a generalisation but looking at the galleries suggests there is a modicum of truth. 

@hornet3d

You are right. Look Dynnamic clothes. No matter how beautiful they are made, they are abadoned by the customer. To much work to make them "Render ready."

And don't forget, they are still a lot of Poser6-7-8 user which can not use the advantage of Poser pro 2012-2014. Simply.

So what should a vendor do? Create for both the content? Or make it easy and stay with the version Poser 7 only so both part can use it without problems.

BTW. Most of the vendors offers their creations for Poser 7 and Poser 2012+.

@Ladonna

If you add new features to products it could also be an incentive to buy that new product which you otherwise would not because you already have a similar product.

About dynamic cloth: I prefer a product which has both. Then I would have the easiness of the conforming cloth in standing poses and the flexibility of a dynamic cloth when the pose requires it.

wimvdb, i agree with the first part.

But Dynamic cloth , or the hybrid version scare many Poser user away. I don't know why. For me it is more difficult to fit with dials and morphs a long dress to a character in a sitting pose as example, than to go in the dynamic room. And it looks way better.

When I see in the galleries a long conforming dress, which swoop around V4 like the riggid magic carpet from Alladin, honestly I have to laugh.

Quote - wimvdb, i agree with the first part.

But Dynamic cloth , or the hybrid version scare many Poser user away. I don't know why. For me it is more difficult to fit with dials and morphs a long dress to a character in a sitting pose as example, than to go in the dynamic room. And it looks way better.

When I see in the galleries a long conforming dress, which swoop around V4 like the riggid magic carpet from Alladin, honestly I have to laugh.

I mentioned standing poses for conforming. Walking, sitting, swirling - all much better with dynamic clothing, I totally agree - especially with long dresses.

But there is more than just posing and running the simulator. If you use morphed figures it takes a bit more work to adjust the cloth to the figure - the morph brush helps but it adds to the workflow.

I use a lot of figures in my scenes. One thing I do now with dynamic cloth is to simulate in a separate scene for each figure. Then - when everything looks good - spawn a morph in the cloth. Then I save the figure plus cloth in the posed position. In the final scene I load the figure and set the morph to 1. This way I do not lose any simulation, and can move it around easily. If I would have to do all of the simulations in the final scene it would get very complicated and errorprone

Quote - I use a lot of figures in my scenes. One thing I do now with dynamic cloth is to simulate in a separate scene for each figure. Then - when everything looks good - spawn a morph in the cloth. Then I save the figure plus cloth in the posed position. In the final scene I load the figure and set the morph to 1. This way I do not lose any simulation, and can move it around easily. If I would have to do all of the simulations in the final scene it would get very complicated and errorprone

 

This is a great technique, and pretty much required if you're rendering more than one figure close together (e.g. dancing).

I wish more people would just take the time to learn to use dynamic clothing. It took me about an hour to get the basics down fairly solidly. It often takes newbies at least that long to figure out they can't just conform clothing to a custom morphed figure and expect it to work. In the time it takes to explain this in forum posts, they could have posed, simulated, and rendered a dynamic outfit to a custom morph, even one with massively absurd breasts.

Hmm. Maybe that's how dynamic clothing needs to be marketed. Lots of images of truly enormous boobs (and bottoms) fitting perfectly in dynamic clothes.

i was about to answer to Winterclaw's thread,

'atleast they don't delete your posts when you complain'

but, now i see that is a lie, cuz winterclaw's thread seems to be zapped.

conspiracy theory?  they seem to want to hide their shadier business practices.

let's see how long this post lasts.

Quote - i was about to answer to Winterclaw's thread,

'atleast they don't delete your posts when you complain'

but, now i see that is a lie, cuz winterclaw's thread seems to be zapped.

conspiracy theory?  they seem to want to hide their shadier business practices.

let's see how long this post lasts.

No one is trying to hide anything. This isn't the Smith-Micro complaint forum. None of the complaints made here have any effect on how Smith-Micro conducts itself to their customers. It falls on deaf ears and only creates hostility in the forum, so threads and posts like that will be removed as soon as I spot them. 

This one nearly got deleted but it's been civil for now so I've just been watching it. 

Smith-Micro has a customer service department and an official forum that can handle all of those complaints. 

~Shane

Yeah, this was never a complaint thread either. It was about SM promoting Dawn, but the link got zapped, so people started taking the thread title out of context.

Quote - Yeah, this was never a complaint thread either. It was about SM promoting Dawn, but the link got zapped, so people started taking the thread title out of context.

Yes, you're right. I think that's exactly what happened. Thread threatened to become an all out complaint forum, when that was exactly the opposite of your intent.

Mind you, I haven't noticed any outright hostility here. Some expressions of frustration, yes. But then who doesn't get frustrated with software they use a lot? I took a class in Office 2010 and I've never heard so much swearing! The people who were accustomed to 2003 were the most unhappy. People get get used to an interface until they can operate basically on autopilot, and if you add a single keystroke or mouseclick, it can interrupt that flow completely and they go beserk.

We can be thankful that SM seems to have settled on a very intuitive and useable UI, and doesn't seem to think it's a good idea to change it dramatically every couple of years. I appreciate that.

Quote - Yeah, this was never a complaint thread either. It was about SM promoting Dawn, but the link got zapped, so people started taking the thread title out of context.

In fairness, while the thread was intended to discuss SM's support of Dawn the title of the thread did leave it open a bit. So although it was not in the spirit of the thread I can see why some answered the question but many of the comments aimed at SM were quite supportive and even the ones that were critical were presented in a reasonable manner.

In general I am not really impressed by some of the hostility shown in the forum but I have found the ignore button to have been a great advantage.  It is surprising how just ignoring a couple of users can change the whole outlook of the forum.

That said, I have no problem with this particular thread so far and have found it very imformative in places, particularly the method of using dynamic cloth with a number of the figures, and that was not part of the main thread intent either so 'thread drift' can be useful.

My gripe about the Ignore Button is that it's right next to the Quote Button...