There is so much product at Renderosity for the Dawn figure, but the Dawn figure itself does not appear.  Is the Dawn figure the one that is offered at Daz3D.com, by Riaya?  A person can't start buying Dawn products unless he can first find Dawn.

Dawn is at Hivewire3d

And the base figure is still currently free. Can't give a link, but google HiveWire 3D and go to the shop.  Scroll down a bit on the left and you'll see "Get Dawn Free".  Click on the image of her and you'll come to the page where you can get her ;)

As others have indicated the Dawn figure is available at Hivewire3d.

Dawn is not a figure from the Victoria 4 or Genesis 1/2 families. Dawn is a completely new figure.

Dawn is weight mapped similar to Genesis 1/2, but Dawn uses DAZ Studio native weight mapping in DAZ Studio and Poser native weight mapping in poser. The result is that clothing for Dawn is not compatible between DAZ Studio and Poser. The differences go deeper than just material settings. 

Many Dawn products are available in both DAZ Studio and Poser versions, but some are only available for Poser.

Victoria 4 and Genesis 1/2 clothing will not directly work on Dawn. Some people have created a V4 clone for Dawn in DAZ Studio that allows you to autofit Victoria 4 clothes to Dawn. Unforntuately, because of copyrights, this clone cannot be sold commericially.There is a tutorial someplace on how to create the V4 clone.

In addition to the Clone just mentioned, there are both Crossdresser and Wardrobe Wizard plugins for Dawn to allow you to use existing content

Again, because of Renderosity forum rules, I can't link to those sites but you can google them ;)

You can get the community bundle at Rendo, it's been on the site for a few weeks.. fell off the hot list so fast it wasn't funny, but you can buy it here.

Quote - You can get the community bundle at Rendo, it's been on the site for a few weeks.. fell off the hot list so fast it wasn't funny, but you can buy it here.

It was on the hot list at one point? Guess it had pretty steep competition with all the clearance items.  Suppose if it's still in the store by this time next year it can participate in the same sale.

Quote - > Quote - You can get the community bundle at Rendo, it's been on the site for a few weeks.. fell off the hot list so fast it wasn't funny, but you can buy it here.

It was on the hot list at one point? Guess it had pretty steep competition with all the clearance items.  Suppose if it's still in the store by this time next year it can participate in the same sale.

Actually it never made it, I just looked to see where it placed a day or two after release; 20+ pages down and I couldn't find it.

Thanks to everyone who has filled me in on Dawn.  I got the download.

Unfortunately, I missed the chance to get a lot of Dawn stuff at the March clearance sale.  I'll be watching for the next chance.

But it does seem expensive to start doing much with Dawn.  When just getting interested in 3D art, I was won over to DazStudio by the free offer.  I had looked at Poser offers first, but Pro Poser is $499.99.  I find this situation to be like the old rivalry between the low-priced VCR and the high-priced Beta tech.  In a bidding war between low-cost and expensive, the hobby user is going to go for what's low-priced.  I don't know Poser, and after buying many Daz3D products, it would be hard for this writer to go to Poser in the forseeable future. (And the learning curve for DS is bad enough; to do it all over again with Poser, no way).   Professionals may disagree, but for the hobbyists there has been no obvious technological reason to choose Poser over DS, until, possibly, the appearance of Dawn.  That said, I am afraid that Dawn is not going to make a large inroad into the DS-user market, not unless artists can use Dawn and her products to full effect in DazStudio, not just on Dawn herself, but on other Daz3D models as well.  

A person like me, coming new into 3D art, would want to see the newer Victoria clothing and accessaries to be fully compatable with Dawn.  Dawn product-makers have done a little in that direction, but much more needs to be done.  We need tech support especially.  I mean, a programming illiterate should not be exprected to write his own compatability add-on.  If Hivewire3D is holding back licensing, they should reconsider it.  The break-out popularity of Dawn depends on making Dawn and her content fully usable outside Poser.  (Naturally, one can forget that argument if the whole point of Dawn is to make Poser more popular.)  Unfortunately, while I'm new to 3D, I get the idea that there is a sort of rivalry going on between DS fans and Poser fans, one as intense as that between cat lovers and dog lovers. 

If Dawn is going to be a strict fan venture to support Poser, that is one thing; a small market base might be acceptable to attain the desired outcome.  But if DS fans, (fans with lots of content already purchased for Victoria and Genesis), are ever going to become a factor in the commercial success of Dawn (and presumably of the future models using the same technology) HiveWire3D needs to pay heed to these potential customers' needs and expectations. 

It would be super if many Victoria things worked with Dawn, and many Dawn things worked with Victoria.  Outside that ideal, the cost factor alone will force hobbyists (if not the professionals) to choose one model over the other.  I think the availablity of a free DazStudio with its Genesis and Genesis 2 models leaves Poser at a marked disadvantage.  So, in the present situation, at least, I can't see Dawn becoming a viable alternative to Victoria, not for people who have already gone deeply into Daz3D content.  Even if the $500 price on Poser were not a factor, the thousands of dollars that hobbyists have to date invested into DS content certainly has to be.

So, in summation, I like what I have read about Dawn, but I can't afford to leave behind my Daz3D content expenditures (which got surprisingly huge in just a short while) and start from scratch with a new model.  But if Dawn ever becomes DS content friendly, I could easily become a big fan of hers.

Poser was first released in 1995 and has changed hands several times before ending up with Smith Micro.  DAZ got its start selling content for Poser.  Sometime in the mid 00s DAZ apparently became worried about the future of Poser. There apparently were questions of whether the company that currently owned it would continue to develop it. DAZ was totally depend upon Poser for their sales.

In 2005 DAZ acquired Eovia, which owned Carrara and Hexagon. It was also in 2005 that DAZ released version 1.0 of DAZ Studio. This was apparently an insurance policy against Poser disappearing from the market.

Poser was eventually bought by Smith Micro and they have done a good job of enhancing and supporting Poser.  There is now little danger of Poser disapearing.

DAZ has gone ahead with developing DAZ Studio anyway. DAZ Studio was not always free. I believe early on there was a free version and not free Pro version. For the last few years DAZ has made the Pro version free, so there is no longer a non-Pro version. DAZ could go back to charging something for DAZ Studio in the future. Time will tell.

When DAZ developed Genesis (1) they were using several new bits of technology, like weight mapping, that were not available in Poser. They enhanced DS to have weight mapping. Smith Micro also added weight mapping support into Poser, but the two implementations of weight mapping are incompabible.  DAZ chose to support Genesis in Poser by creating the DSON library that adds support for DAZ weight mapping in Poser.  This means that Genesis clothes will interoperate betwen DS and Poser aside from materials.

The developers of Dawn at Hivewire picked a different technique. Dawn is one shape between DS and Poser, but Dawn uses Poser native weight mapping in Poser and DAZ native weight mapping in DS.  For Victoria 4.2 there is one figure that works in DS and Poser.  For Genesis there is one figure that operates in DS and in Poser through the DSON importer (note: many Poser users are distatisfied with the DSON importer because of bugs or performance). For Dawn, the Poser and DS version are really different figures.

The lack of a auto fit for Dawn in DAZ Studio is because DAZ owns the copyright on the Victoria 4.2 shape. Hivewire cannot create a Victoria 4.2 autofit clone without using that shape. If you own Victoria 4.2, you can create a auto fit clone for your personal use, but you cannot sell it. DAZ also cannot make a Dawn auto fit clone for Genesis, because Hivewire owns the Dawn shape.

Users of DS already have access to weight mapped figures in Genesis 1/2. There is a weight mapped Victoria 4.2 addon that uses native Poser weight mapping and does not work in DS. It is available free at RuntimeDNA, but has never taken off.  Dawn was an attempt to provide a character that supports native weight mapping technology in DS and Poser.  The result is a character that is less compatible between DS and Poser than either Victoria 4.2 or Genesis as far a clothes. PA have to do two versions of clothing, one for Poser and one for DS, as well as different materials for Poser and DS.  Hivewire encourages PAs to do both Poser and DS versions, but in the end PAs will do what is in their financial interest.

I helped crash the Hivewire site the night Dawn was released (Hivewire site actually crashed when I submitted my order. I never got the confirmation page, but the order had gone through when the site came back up.)  I bought most of the Dawn clothing I could find in the early days that would work in DS. Even then much of clothing was Poser only.  I did try to create a V4 auto fit clone. Never got it perfect, but that was before the tutorial.

I gave up on Dawn not because of a lack of clothes, but because I was just not happy about her renders. That is a completely personal judgement, but I decided to concentrate on Genesis 2, because I was happier with the results.

I was one of those that helped crash hivewire lol. Thing is I can't use Dawn in carrara. Every time I try autofit just mangels her clothes and I can't dress her with out autofit popin up. Thanks DAZ for preventing me from using any new figures in carrara that doesn't come from DAZ.

Also check your history, I came to DAZ with carrara and studio was up to 2.? then. I think the first version of Studio I checked out was 1.2, and that was before I bought carrara; when I was evaluating CG apps. At that time studio really was nothing but a content staging app. Was completly worthless for what I needed a CG app for.

None the less the way I remember it poser/DAZ split from zygote, One had the idea of selling the app and having it set up so people could easily make their own content to exchange/sell. The other was strictly making content. They also realized they could sell far more content if the app that used it was cheeper, thus Studio was born. A content sales gimmick at the time. Seriously, Studio was created to sell content.

The battle between the two has been going on ever since. Each one doing little changes to their format when the other figures it out. As in, it's been my opinion for a while DAZ bought carrara to get the poser 5/6 SDK they couldn't get from Poser. That is also why P7 came out so soon after P6 and why it was so buggy. Poser wanted to get their format changes out before DAZ had Poser content working as well in studio as Poser.

But if you missed the release of Studio 4 and genesis, you missed the biggest brewhaha there has ever been in Poserdom. The new folks that took over DAZ at that time learned 2 valuable lessons, people wont pay for Studio, and DAZ can't get by with out Poser users. Thus DAZ's mad dash to invent and get DSON out to the public.

Now as far as Dawn, cute character, would like to work with her a bit more, but unless there is a good morph to fix her she really doesn't look any better then the mil3 figures. I'd like to say nice first try, but then most of the old DAZ crew is at hivewire now, so figure creation shouldn't be new to them.

DS was, as markht says, developed when Poser's future looked uncertain - and well after DAZ 3D was split off from Zygote as the Poser content production company. DS1 and 2 were free, it was only with DS3 that there was a free base version and a non-free Advanced version 9and a Pro Bundle that included DS Advanced and the Content Creation Tools).

Quote - DS was, as markht says, developed when Poser's future looked uncertain - and well after DAZ 3D was split off from Zygote as the Poser content production company. DS1 and 2 were free, it was only with DS3 that there was a free base version and a non-free Advanced version 9 and a Pro Bundle that included DS Advanced and the Content Creation Tools).

That is when I started using it, when it became a usfull tool 

Dawn is a wonderful figure.  :-)  I know some haven't bonded with her, but for us Poser users who wanted a figure other than V4, she is a gift from the 3D gods.

It's not that expensive to get started with her.  One must have character though is here -- Oriana.  If you get Oriana and the Texture Transformer by the developer of BlackSmith3D, you can use any V4 skin and the Ori morph and create many gorgeous figures.  I mention Oriana because she has a ton of lip inj options.

Dawn is a lot of fun.  I don't use any other figure anymore. 

Hair fits are easy...just move a bit along the z and y axes and maybe enlarge a tad.  If it's a Figure, you just treat it as prop hair by creating a Figure Parent in Poser 2014.  Clothing is harder to convert but as I said, there is free stuff at ShareCG and any V4 dynamic item can be made to "fit" Dawn.  :-)

I love Dawn.  Wouldn't trade her for anything.

Quote - Dawn is a wonderful figure.  :-)  I know some haven't bonded with her, but for us Poser users who wanted a figure other than V4, she is a gift from the 3D gods.

It's not that expensive to get started with her.  One must have character though is here -- Oriana.  If you get Oriana and the Texture Transformer by the developer of BlackSmith3D, you can use any V4 skin and the Ori morph and create many gorgeous figures.  I mention Oriana because she has a ton of lip inj options.

Dawn is a lot of fun.  I don't use any other figure anymore. 

Hair fits are easy...just move a bit along the z and y axes and maybe enlarge a tad.  If it's a Figure, you just treat it as prop hair by creating a Figure Parent in Poser 2014.  Clothing is harder to convert but as I said, there is free stuff at ShareCG and any V4 dynamic item can be made to "fit" Dawn.  :-)

I love Dawn.  Wouldn't trade her for anything.

 

The problem really is that a figure needs to stand on their own. That means, "can i do everything with the character without borrowing from other figures?" With Dawn you can't. Even with the large push with (especially Poser) content at her release, the customers basically spoken and decided Dawn isn't what they needed. 

Dawn may have a life if it decide to be Poser only; that way it can do more things rather than a basic set of features found in both. Perhaps SM can work on its figure creation platform as it's pretty sad in comparison of what you can do and how easiliy you can do it in DS. However, techically and visually, it's way behind anything DAZ has done so I don't think in the long run it has a chance of being a viable DAZ character, so I really wouldn't invest too much in it.  Also note all the major vendors have basically parted ways with Dawn, either going back to V4 or V6, so the quality of her content has been way down.

I'm sorry -- I just noticed that this is the DS forum.

Please excuse.  I did a search for "Dawn," to see if anything new had been posted here about her, and didn't pay attention to the forum I was in.

Duh...sorry if my response above is not appropriate.  Since I don't use Dawn in DS, what I said doesn't really help the thread starter at all.  oops...

Well, maybe some applies to DS.  :-)  Just ignore the other stuff.

Unfortunately you will need if to not completly ignore Jan19's post at least be careful when pruchasing for Dawn.

From what I could gather using Texture Transformer for DS requires a bit of jumping through hoops.

A lot of characters and clothing made for Dawn do not work in DS.

Poser dynamics do not work in DS. You can use DS dynamics on Dawn but its fiddly - from my experience.

Sadly Dawn does not have much DS support, I use Crossdresser to dress her and it works quite well, but I am really really lacking textures, good ones, for her I have about 2 that I use, if there were more availble then I would probably use her more.

Just checked and the character Oriana is by fabiana, who doesn't do DS so that character won't work in DS, if you are looking for a character for Dawn, Hivewire have Raw's Kerri which I would recommend and here Sav has Maraki another lovely character that works well in DS.

Quote - I'm sorry -- I just noticed that this is the DS forum.

Please excuse.  I did a search for "Dawn," to see if anything new had been posted here about her, and didn't pay attention to the forum I was in.

Duh...sorry if my response above is not appropriate.  Since I don't use Dawn in DS, what I said doesn't really help the thread starter at all.  oops...

Well, maybe some applies to DS.  :-)  Just ignore the other stuff.

Actually it is appropriate, since Dawn was touted as the figure by Poser users to "heal the bridges" between Poser and DS users, but it's really done no such thing. The poser users give as much regard to DS users as they've done before, which is barely anything. This was evident when the initial push of DAWN products came along and they mostly ignored DS compatiblity. Healing indeed. ;) I think those people actually believed that Dawn was a way to get back at DAZ rather than bridge healing... but the majority of people that actually think about the product, rather than blind philosophy saw the figure for what it was and didn't invest in it. Which is why vendors don't make for it and you can barely find new content for it.... and the community bundle went over like large rock. But you'll see people post not about how it's healed the community, but a godsend for Poser users. 

Say what you will about DAZ but at least they've tried to get EVERYONE to use their products they best they could, where it hasn't been the case from the other side. If you invest in Dawn, you will be doing lots of converting because you'll barely find things for DS. Genesis was a huge wake up call for Poser users who thought DAZ should just cater to their needs when the figure tech hasn't changed in years. The environment has changed a lot in the last few years, and that's not the case, so there's been a lot a Poser figures not aimed to heal bridges but to get back for the fact that DAZ won't compromise their quality of their new figures for a scaled down, barebones figure like Dawn just because their software doesn't feel they have to work with another company for a change.

For this reason, I'd stay away from Dawn. As a DS user, you have much better choices and lots more content available to you.

I am sorry I didn't note what forum I was in, but since I didn't... :-)

tparo is right -- Poser dynamics are different from DS dynamics, so that part of my post is totally irrelevant, as is the Oriana part.  I thought Fabi had done a DS version, but I guess that didn't happen.  So again -- very sorry.  And I don't know how the TT works for DS.

If I were a DS user, it would be hard to choose between Dawn and Genesis, because the Genesis females are gorgeous.  I love some of the characters made for the Genesis 2 female.

Quote - Actually it is appropriate, since Dawn was touted as the figure by Poser users to "heal the bridges" between Poser and DS users, but it's really done no such thing. The poser users give as much regard to DS users as they've done before, which is barely anything.

See, some Poser users feel that we're the black sheep in the DS community.  :-)  I don't know why DS/Poser users can't just forget which render program we prefer and concentrate on enjoying the art our compadres make.  And we're being presented with so many great render programs...Lux, Octane, Modo, LW...in the end, it's the artwork that counts, more so than the tools we use.

Maybe the reason there's more Dawn stuff for Poser than for DS IS because some of the Poser people were so hungry for a new figure.  We pounced on Dawn, and the vendors picked up on that. 

I wish something would heal our community breach, where it exists.  It doesn't exist everywhere.  At the main forum I post at, there's rarely any DS vs. Poser conflict because we all have a common love -- Dawn.  We don't care where we see her, just as long as we see her.  ;-)

I guess Dawn is an acquired taste, like oysters or a special wine.  From what I've seen though, once a user is hooked on Dawn, that's all she wrote.

Unman, I guess the only solution is for you to download the Dawn figure and try her out for yourself.  :-) 

Ok, my best to all DS/Poser/Lux/Octane/Modo, ad infinitum, users -- and you all have a great day.  :-)))

When Dawn came out I was sceptical because I had seen Antonia Polygon and My Michelle flounder. Nonetheless I did get quite a bit of Dawn items (for DS) but its never taken off. Only the Daz created figures seem to do well which leaves Renderosity in a bit of time warp as its PAs still seem to develop mainly for V4. I have so much V4 stuff already that any new V4 items have to be trully exceptional. I think it would be better for users if Daz Studio and Poser were interoperable. It would be great if Poser shaders worked in Daz Studio say. If there was a common system maybe we could get some independent people producers.

It would be wonderful, if Poser and DS had interchangeable formats!

In the meantime though, it'd be great if content makers and freebie makers, too, would take a lesson from artists like SAV.  Joanna creates for every figure I can think of, Dawn included --bless her -- and she creates for DAZ Studio AND Poser.

I've been a Poserite for awhile, using Poser Pro 2014, and I love it.  But I re-downloaded DAZ Studio this morning, and I was pleasantly surprised by the new version.  My Poser items imported well, and even the Poser poses worked.  It doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult to take items created in Poser and re-create them in DS format.

Then again, I may be in for a rude shock.  ;-)

I do wish we could all be one community again though, and not just for the sake of the Dawn figure, although I do love her.

Quote - I do wish we could all be one community again though, and not just for the sake of the Dawn figure, although I do love her.

I couldn't agree more! Maybe if everyone wasn't fighting all the time we might find that we all have a lot in common, and we could actually learn from each other. Like the software we use, the figures all have their individual strenghts and weaknesses. Having mature conversations about them would help everyone in the long run.

IMVHO, app/figure wars do nothing to promote either side of the argument, they just tear the community apart, and typically keep usefull information from being shared. Often you have to read through so much vitriol and dis-information to get to the little gems good information that you give up before you get there.

Back to the original subject - IMHO Dawn is a great figure, with lots of potential. I've even had some success using her in Carrara (the DS version). Initially I was quite glad to see a new weight mapped figure that could be used in both DS and Poser since I use both. Unfortunately, the economics just didn't work well for me. Getting both the Poser and DS versions of clothing, etc. is a significant increase in costs for me.

I can use Genesis/Genesis 2 in DS/Poser/Carrara without buying separate versions. Sure, the Genesis figures don't work as well in Poser or Carrara as they do in DS, but with limited 3D hobby funds, I have to chose to go with the less costly approach. If I was using just Poser or just DS, Dawn would make more sense for me. So it really comes down to cost, other than that, I think Dawn is really a great figure.

I'm just going to say that I agree with everything YOU said -- and leave it at that.  :-)

Especially the part about learning from each other.

Quote - I think it would be better for users if Daz Studio and Poser were interoperable. It would be great if Poser shaders worked in Daz Studio say.

Or if Poser could read duf files, without the dson middleman.  :-)

Quote - > Quote - I think it would be better for users if Daz Studio and Poser were interoperable. It would be great if Poser shaders worked in Daz Studio say.

Or if Poser could read duf files, without the dson middleman.  :-)

 

 

 

 

You mean Poser could read the DSON spec natively without using the DSON importer. 

DSON is a scene specification, not the import technology.

Oh -- ok.  :-)  Thank you.