I was reading the DAZ Studio forum and a discussion there got me wondering; is Victoria 4.2 a figure that is officially 100% compatible with both DS and Poser?

For example, I read that Dawn uses the same mesh for both programs, but comes in two versions of mapping so that she's 100% compatible with both programs (which sounds like a good idea to me).  But V4.2 doesn't come like that, yet I never hear any complaints about compatibility with her.

So does that mean V4.2 is officially 100% compatible with both programs 'out-of-the-box'?

Apart from the materials being different, is there any figure technology the default 'direct-from-DAZ' V4.2 uses, that is not 100% identical and supported in both DS and Poser?

Do all features of the default figure have official 100% compatibility in both programs?

I have np using Victoria 4.2 with Poser...

I believe there is load morph facility which is only for Daz Studio. 

There are a few dials dealing with leg and arm length that use tri-axis scaling and are mainly DS-specific; those I would stay away from.

I believe those morph dials are found in the the main body actor outside of the other morph++ dials. As long as you don't use any of those dials that are grouped together, the figure should work the same in both.

Quote - I believe there is load morph facility which is only for Daz Studio. 

Morph loader (and morph loader pro) is the tool for loading custom morphs. If you use this tool in conjunction with the ExP tool, you can create a bunch of custom morphs that will create their own custom channels that don't rely on the figure's community or internal morph channels. It also allows those channels to work in both Poser and DAZ studio. It also does reverse deformations so you can save your own work easily or create JCMs for your product.

This works good with products such as fix morphs, for example. But if you're only doing a head morph, this method is probably overkill.

I'm pretty sure that when she was first launched, it was at a time when DAZ weren't supporting versions of Poser newer than 6. That was way back in 2006 when the schism between Poser and Daz Studio wasn't as wide as it is now, but was starting to develop.

"Officially" then, V4 has never been supported beyond Poser 6. Daz, of course, are pushing Genesis 2 rather than V4 but I imagine there is still some support for DS users.

Smith Micro obviously have no obligations whatsoever as far as V4 is concerned: she's not their product.

Unofficially... have a trawl through the marketplace here, note the amount of new content being released for V4, and draw your own conclusions.

As I understand it, V4.2 uses the old Poser fall-off zone rigging for joints, both applications support this type of rigging. Weight mapping for joints was introduced with Poser 9/2012 and DS 4, but they aren't compatible between the two. To enable improved bending, Dawn is weight mapped, thus the need for two different versions.

Edit: I forgot to add that the DSON utility from DAZ allows the use of DS weight mapped figures in Poser, but there is no utility to convert Poser weight mapping to DS. Hivewire wanted to have Dawn work natively in both programs without the need for conversion at the user/program level.

I shouldn't post using a tablet - I always leave stuff out. Makes it even worse when the site goes down.

To add to my above post, I was just trying to point out that V4 was made when both DS and Poser used basically the same rigging.

Now for DS weightmapped figures to work in Poser, you need DSON, and a Poser Companion File, not just DSON (or export to a cr2, but that can have issues). The important thing to note is that because of the diffences in the new rigging and weight mapping systems, Poser and DS figures using the new systems are no longer naitively cross platform compatible 

Other than the issues mentioned above (which are more of a software features thing than compatibility), as far as I know, V4.2 is fully compatible in Poser, because the figure was designed to work natively in Poser with the falloff zone rigging that both programs used at the time.

Now that I probably made myself even less clear, I'll just go back into lurk mode where I can talk to myself and usually know what I am saying.

Thanks all, I have a lot better insight into what's what after reading the comments here :-)

Sounds good then.  I'm pleased there's something common to both programs, and while I doubt I'd actually vend one product for two programs, at least V4.2 works properly in both, and that means making stuff for her is at least a reality for me.  I can send V4.2 from PP2012 using GoZ and I don't have any issues.  Sadly I cannot do the same for Roxie because she has that new mapping stuff and PP2012 doesn't support it.

I haven't started on anything yet, but if we don't get a heavy sale on Poser Pro upgrades very soon, I'll just have to ditch the Roxie idea unless/until they fix the Morph Brush Mirror in Poser 10.

**
@Male_M3dia**
Sorry for the dumb question but what's the ExP tool, is it on here?
I just searched the Marketplace but can't find anything.

Quote - **
@Male_M3dia**
Sorry for the dumb question but what's the ExP tool, is it on here?
I just searched the Marketplace but can't find anything.

It comes with/is a part of V4.2. You can read more about the EXP technology here

Hope this helps.

Ah, no wonder I couldn't find it
Cheers, DustRider!

Not sure how to tell you this, but V4 is only compatable with Poser, that was the program she was designed for and it's Posers native formats that she comes in. Every other program that can use her has to use converter software to load/import her, this is because they need to change the Parametric rig into something that program can handle. In the case of DS that means a basic weight map rig that mimics Parametric rigging, and no I'm not talking about DS4 as the conversion gets even more complicated with it.

infinity10, I believe you are refering to PowerLoader, it allows you to load and pre-inject morph packs for EXP enabled figures (Gen4 and SubDragon), problem with it is that it's always been slow and a bit of a RAM hog. You can actually load V4 into a scene, INJect the required morphs, apply a character and textures, pose and half dress her in less time than it takes PowerLoader to just load her and her morphs.

EDIT and if like me you had the CR2 exporter with DS2 & DS3 you could export a new CR2 that would load in a hell of a lot faster than her EXP CR2.

**
@Bejaymac**
I understood a lot of what you said, but how can V4 only be compatible with Poser, she's a DAZ figure and I've used her in DS!

Not sure what you mean :blink:

Attached Link: http://3dartdirect.com/the-digital-artists-complete-history-of-daz-3ds-victoria-5-the-most-popular-m

He means she was originally designed to be compatible with Poser 4. DAZ did not start coding Studio until Poser 4 had been out for a while. If fact, the whole reason stated at the time for creating Studio was as a hedge against Poser no longer being published.

Although I have specific problem with the title of this article, as I think it is somewhat misleading, it does appear to give a pretty decent  overview of Victoria's  history.

Actually, V4 was not officially compatible with Poser 4 (or 5, as I recall) - it required Poser 6 on release (and had to be installed into the application folder), but it remains compatible with Poser (and in Poser 7 SR3 and later doesn't need to be installed into the application folder).

@Clarkie
Thanks, that was an interesting read.  So is Genesis 2 the same mesh as Genesis 1 then?  Just the shape has changed and that's where the name changes come from?

• Victoria 5 is Based on Genesis 1
• Genesis 2 is just another name for Victoria 6 but is still the Genesis 1 mesh with new shape?

@Richard
Thanks for the heads-up, although it's a shame if she did't work with Poser 5 because that was when the major changes to Poser seemed to happen in IMHO.  Poser 5 seemed to be the biggest change from a previous version than any other version I can remember.

Richard would be a better person to ask about Genesis than I, Pumeco.

I thought you were into the history due to the link :biggrin:
But yup, the question goes to Richard then, or anyone really!

Richard will probably chime in an do a better job explaining Genesis 1 - Genesis 2, but here is the for dummies version (or is that the from dummy version)

V6 is based on Genesis 2 Female (aka G2F). With Genesis 2 DAZ went back to the old model of having a female specific version of the mesh, and a male specific version (G2M), rather than a single mesh like Genesis 1. As I understand it, they went back to separate models to better address the difference between male and female topology, and to provide improved UV mapping with less texture stretching issues.

The current derivatives of the G2F mesh include Victoria 6, Gia 6, Girl 6, Olympia 6, and Stephanie 6. Each figure has their own unique body shape(s), and their own unique UV maps to minimize texture distortion (as I understand it). There are also morph sets based on the G2F figure (i.e. the Evolution Morphs), that provide excellent results without using V6 etc., or you can use them in conjunction with V6 etc. to create your own unique character(s).

Confused yet? I am - time to go take a break before my mind melts.

(I hope at least some of this made sense - I'm sure Richard can clear the mud I just created)

V3 was just a morph for unimesh 3.
V4 was just a morph for the unimesh 4.

Genesis 1 mesh came with DAZ Studio 4.0 Pro Edition.
Genesis 2 mesh comes with DAZ Studio 4.6.2.118 Pro Edition.
There's a Genesis 2 mesh boy and girl morph.

Genesis 1 polycount is around 18,884. V5,M5 is just a morph you buy for Genesis 1.
Genesis 2 polycount is around 21,098. V6,M6 is just a morph you buy for Genesis 2.
So they added some topology to Genesis 1 to make it better and named it Genesis 2.

Don't know how they done the genitalia. ya half to buy the pro bundle to get that.

V3 had triangles in it and a high polycount so ,not acceptable for high end App's.
V4 was 100% quads but had a high polycount so DAZ was trying to make a mesh for Poser & highend app's,
but an around 60,000 polycount's not asetable for high end App's.
V5 and the new DAZ Studio with SubD's works like high end app's. First Vicky that I would use. 
Thay wanted a little more topology in V5 so they made V6.now where up to date. 

DAZ studio gets updates from time to time ,newer versions.
every version gets farther away from V4.
V4 was 15 years out of date the day she was released 10 years a go.
Since DAZ seems to be making every effort to be up to date with highend app's.
I doubt V4 is a top priority for DAZ.

G2F & G2M have the same poloycount.it's the same mesh.morphed diffrently.

Quote - V6 is based on Genesis 2 Female (aka G2F). With Genesis 2 DAZ went back to the old model of having a female specific version of the mesh, and a male specific version (G2M)...

G2F is Sydney, Olivia and G2 Jessi and G2M is the Simon, G2 James, Koji and Kelvin crew, which have nothing to do with DAZ.    The males and females used the same respective bodies, but different heads.

As RorrKonn notes, The 2 Genesis 2 figures are indeed the same mesh.  I easily created a Male morph for Genesis 2 female by simply exporting the Genesis 2 male...

Quote - > Quote - V6 is based on Genesis 2 Female (aka G2F). With Genesis 2 DAZ went back to the old model of having a female specific version of the mesh, and a male specific version (G2M)...

G2F is Sydney, Olivia and G2 Jessi and G2M is the Simon, G2 James, Koji and Kelvin crew, which have nothing to do with DAZ.    The males and females used the same respective bodies, but different heads.

You bring up a valid point there. The context of the discussion will definitely change the interpretation of the acronym G2F and/or G2M. I didn't even think to mention that some SM figures had the same acronym, probably because I assumed that pumeco new the other references - but then you know what they say about assuming something.

Thanks for the clarification.

Quote -
G2F is Sydney, Olivia and G2 Jessi and G2M is the Simon, G2 James, Koji and Kelvin crew, which have nothing to do with DAZ.    The males and females used the same respective bodies, but different heads.

Could some one exsplain how we got these acronyms for them to me ?
Whats G2 stand for ?

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - V6 is based on Genesis 2 Female (aka G2F). With Genesis 2 DAZ went back to the old model of having a female specific version of the mesh, and a male specific version (G2M)...

G2F is Sydney, Olivia and G2 Jessi and G2M is the Simon, G2 James, Koji and Kelvin crew, which have nothing to do with DAZ.    The males and females used the same respective bodies, but different heads.

You bring up a valid point there. The context of the discussion will definitely change the interpretation of the acronym G2F and/or G2M. I didn't even think to mention that some SM figures had the same acronym, probably because I assumed that pumeco new the other references - but then you know what they say about assuming something.

Thanks for the clarification.

However, unless you're shopping at Content Paradise, I don't think anyone will really be thinking of those older figures when you mention those acronyms, and they were not referred to as G2F or G2M.. just G2. Ok to mention for a bit of history, but not necesary to bring up in a a discussion of DAZ figures as acronyms have always changed to mean something different, always referring to the more recent ones.

Thanks all for the info, but being a crazy bunch, you've cleared-up one curiosity and created another :-D

I thought the whole idea of Genesis is that they don't need to change the base mesh itself.  If Genesis 2 has a different poly-count to Genesis 1, then surely any morphs aren't compatible between them.  And like RorrKonn, I'm curious what the G2 stands for on the Poser figures.  To hazard a guess I'd the say the "G" stands for "Generation", but those figures aren't the second generation of Poser figures so Generation 2 wouldn't make sense.

Quote -
Thanks all for the info, but being a crazy bunch, you've cleared-up one curiosity and created another :-D

I thought the whole idea of Genesis is that they don't need to change the base mesh itself.  If Genesis 2 has a different poly-count to Genesis 1, then surely any morphs aren't compatible between them.  And like RorrKonn, I'm curious what the G2 stands for on the Poser figures.  To hazard a guess I'd the say the "G" stands for "Generation", but those figures aren't the second generation of Poser figures so Generation 2 wouldn't make sense.

Well there are ways to transfer morphs between the two via DS's transfer tool; it generally requires a common shape between them, but the idea about a common base is the same between the males and females. The reasong for Genesis 2 figures are 1) specific weightmaps, 2) distribution of polygons specfic to a gender while keeping the same poly count and 3) base shapes that make creation of gender specific content easier (for example trying to visualize a bra on a figure without breasts was not easy with the first generation).

But don't want to derail the V4 conversation, but going back to the ExP  (since I had to go out of town for the day), the ExP exporter tool is in DS, and though it takes a few steps, once you get the flow, it's pretty easy.

Basically you'll build your product with the morphs, any morph corrections, custom morph channels names and JCMs and save it as a CR2 (this way you can save it out again with any changes), then use the ExP Exporter to read the CR2 and save out the setup to a directory. Then you package that up so it can be saved to a runtime. Customers would just run the "Update V4" script to prepare V4 for the new injection channels.

So it could be used for bend fixes, custom characters that have JCMs, custom body shapes, emotions, etc. and not have those compete in the community injection channels where they could overwrite or be overwritten by other products.

Cheers, Male_M3Dia, I would likely have gotten round to asking what you just posted so you saved me the bother.  I'll have to read up on "channels" though, that's something else I need to get my head around!

Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote - V6 is based on Genesis 2 Female (aka G2F). With Genesis 2 DAZ went back to the old model of having a female specific version of the mesh, and a male specific version (G2M)...

G2F is Sydney, Olivia and G2 Jessi and G2M is the Simon, G2 James, Koji and Kelvin crew, which have nothing to do with DAZ.    The males and females used the same respective bodies, but different heads.

You bring up a valid point there. The context of the discussion will definitely change the interpretation of the acronym G2F and/or G2M. I didn't even think to mention that some SM figures had the same acronym, probably because I assumed that pumeco new the other references - but then you know what they say about assuming something.

Thanks for the clarification.

However, unless you're shopping at Content Paradise, I don't think anyone will really be thinking of those older figures when you mention those acronyms, and they were not referred to as G2F or G2M.. just G2. Ok to mention for a bit of history, but not necesary to bring up in a a discussion of DAZ figures as acronyms have always changed to mean something different, always referring to the more recent ones.

G2 Simon and Sydney are included in Poser 10 and PP2014.   If someone started calling a figure "Michael" I'm sure there there would be quite a bit of debate, and it would be equally legal; Victoria's trademark was renewed, but Michael's for some reason was not. (I actualy got the information from the USPTO, but I can't link to the page because it's a database query, so this will have to do)..

http://trademarks.justia.com/765/30/michael-76530152.html

BTW, G2 does indeed stand for Generation 2:

http://poser.smithmicro.com/g2-figures.html

As far at the subject goes, according to DAZ Install Manager, V4.2 Base is listed as compatible with Poser 9+, and Poser <9, with the lower limit being Poser 6, according to the product page....

To add to the confusion, there are Poser scripts to weight map Victoria 4 one is by Poser Place at RDNA, Alphaseed/Aeon Soul had done another. This helps considerably with her bending.

Quote - To add to the confusion, there are Poser scripts to weight map Victoria 4 one is by Poser Place at RDNA, Alphaseed/Aeon Soul had done another. This helps considerably with her bending.

That is where the position becomes grey because the the weight mapped scripts were not done by Daz and therefore aren't really covered by the 'Official Program Compatability".  Not that I am knocking the scripts, I use the V4WM script from Poser Place extensively.  As you say it helps with the bending and has the advantage of being free, easy to apply and one shot.   The clothes for V4WM do have to be run through outfitter, which I believe is not the case with the other script, but again the process is easy.   I have also never subscribed to the idea that a figure can be out of date so my definition of compatibility is 'does it work in Poser without fuss'.  For me and V4WM the answer is a resounding YES.

Yup, it's really just the official side of things I was curious about.  I knew there was a new weight map released for V4, but I would never use it when developing a product because the majority of users will only have V4's official tech on their V4's.

Quote -
Yup, it's really just the official side of things I was curious about.  I knew there was a new weight map released for V4, but I would never use it when developing a product because the majority of users will only have V4's official tech on their V4's.

That appears to be the norm.  The Alphaseed/Aeon Soul script for weighmapping appears to have no impact on the clothes, as far as I know.  For the Poser Place Script you just take the standard V4 clothing item and run it thorough the outfitter procedure which makes the changes for the RDNA script.  Takes a couple of minutes from launch to completion so there is nothing the vendor need do.  Also means all the V4 clothing already purchased can continue to be used. 

With the weight mapped scripts and all the fixes for V4 such as the 'perfect' range of fixes I would guess a large number of users have more than just V4 official tech, but again it would not appear to impact vendors for V4.