Quote - > Quote - > Quote - > Quote -  

Why Daz only includes the gens in the pro bundles I cannot say. The payment processer reasoning makes no sense, as Daz accepts credit cards and Paypal, and you can buy porn with a credit card and Ebay (which is owned by Paypal) sells adult sex toys. But perhaps Daz is using a third party merchant account from a local bank. Who knows what kind of restrictions they have?

 

You can not buy porn with Paypal, if they find out a merchant is using it, they will lock their account and freeze their funds. I know of a site that tried and pretty much lost a few grand, and that was two years ago and still no resolution. Visa has also gotten pretty restrictive with what they will allow too; renderotica lost their payment processing for about a month over some of the promotional renders and gallery postings. They were already paying a higher rate through because of their status and had to use a specialized payment processor. They didn't get the processing back until several products were removed from the store and renders removed from the gallery. DAZ doesn't want that distinction as if they had it, they could no longer offer Paypal for payments or would have to use specialized payment processor. I'm guessing they would rather err to the side of caution to keep their choice of payment processors wider by not allowing certain things or bundling certain items in more expensive packs so that it's not the focus of a product and it's acceptable by the processor.

I said you can buy porn with a credit card, and you can buy adult sex toys from Ebay with Paypal. I didn't say you could buy porn with Paypal because you're right. I don't think you can.

That said, Renderotica had pose sets for rape and torture scenes. And hundreds of images of sexual torture in their galleries and advertising their products. They were extreme. Even I found them offensive and troubling, and that's saying something.

RDNA, Renderosity, and others regularly sell sets (cheap sets) including improved genital morphs, and feature full frontal nudity and close-ups of these genitals in product promo pics. Galleries here and elsewhere permit full frontal nudity. And have you seen some of the stuff you can get prints off at DeviantArt? :D :D

I'm pretty sure that payment processors know the difference between nudity and sexual violence. We know Daz is based in Utah and somewhat more uptight about their "image" than other marketplaces. That is their preference, and entirely their choice. But let's not pretend they are totally liberal in their attitudes towards nudity and sexually stimulating images, cuz they just ain't. :D

I think it's not so much about location and more about making sure they can keep selling. If your business depends on payments, then you make sure you do things in order to keep it. However they do from time to time have loftier plans about who they want to sell to, for instance when they wanted to have DAZ Studio in schools to teach about 3D, so products showing nudes would be geared toward who they want to sell to, not so much a prudish stance. You'd be more in a position to do that if your store was set up a set up so that it appeals to more people. Not to say that some of their products aren't skimpy, but for the most part it's set up so they're not at the mercy of payment processors that handle sites that get an adult designation.

However the OP wanted more information on M6-V6 not genitals and the such so we should probably keep the converstion steered towards that.

I don't know. The OP might very well be interested in whether or not the gens are included in the basic V6/M6 set. Even if OP isn't, other users who read this thread with similar questions might be. 

But I absolutely agree that they probably aren't interested in a debate about the merits of taking a particular "moral" stance in your business decisions. Daz does what it does. It does not stop me from buying their products, and in the end, that's what matters. I don't always agree with everything you or Zev0 say, but your products are quality work. Philosophical agreement isn't necessary in a free market. :)

PS: Maxim HD is an awesome character, btw.

I guess all DSON V6 comes with ?
1 DSON Core Installer
1 Poser Companion Files Installer

Will how well DSON works depend on the what Artist made them ?

Does DAZ require all venders to include DSON ?

Quote -  

PS: Maxim HD is an awesome character, btw.

Thanks :) Just making sure that vickie doesn't have all the fun when it comes to custom characters.

Quote - > Quote -  

PS: Maxim HD is an awesome character, btw.

Thanks :) Just making sure that vickie doesn't have all the fun when it comes to custom characters.

You're welcome. Those brave souls who are willing to risk Vickie's ire by making stuff for other people, particularly for the guys -- those vendors deserve some serious gratitude. :D

Quote - I guess all DSON V6 comes with ?
1 DSON Core Installer
1 Poser Companion Files Installer

Will how well DSON works depend on the what Artist made them ?

Does DAZ require all venders to include DSON ?

DSON is the scene file notification specification that is saved from DAZ studio. So scenes, materials, characters, morphs, etc are saved in DS to this spec. So everything that is saved in DS is DSON. This is not a import technology though, and I think that's what confuses everyone.   Poser reads the DSON specification through the DSON Importer. The importer is the technology, that reads the DSON specifcation just like DS can read basic mc6 files from its built in importer.

So everything that is made for genesis is not automatically Poser ready. Clothing and certain morphs have to be made a certain way and tested in Poser to make sure it works, and from that a vendor would create the Poser companion files. So if you see a product that includes companion files then it was tested for use in Poser.  If those files aren't included, you can try to make your own companion files or use one of Mec4D's or Dimension3D's utilities to read the files, but it may not be guaranteed to work. For example DS does not require clothing to be grouped so those will not work in Poser, but works fine in DS. Also clothing that uses smoothing in DS will have issues in Poser as well.

DAZ does not require vendors to make items that are compatible with the DSON importer for Poser, but there are a few vendors such as FWArt, OOT and Nikisatez, that use Poser for their rendering so they include the Poser companion files for their characters and clothing. Also my products include companion files and include custom adjusted rigs so the scaled characters (such as the hero shape and the teens) work in Poser as well.

Quote - > Quote - Doesn't matter really. The mesh and HD tech works relatively the same in Poser if people bother to save PoserCF files. Most of my products work identically in Poser, including the HD tech. Performance will vary ofcourse, but the tech still works.

 

that you do not mind does not mean you can do whatever you want, if you want to show functions daz there a forum for that software, it is not that hard to understand (though your goal is clearly another ..)

when Male_M3dia Zev0 & post in  this forum, are guaranteeof bother poser users with endless, endless,endless  replys until they can their goal, distorting the thread, make people stop posting here by attacks suffering

a moderator will do something to stop this constant harassment from these characters ???

ps. Male_M3dia Zev0  I find a picture ,is some member of your family?

http://www.cinemaseries.es/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/troll-hunter-2010.jpg

I'm a Poser user that found that video informative. It certainly makes me want to give Genesis a closer look whether using it in Poser or Daz. I would prefer to use Poser as I have much time and money invested in it. But if I end up moving to "the darkside" it will be because it is of benefit to me personally. I certainly hope Smith Micro will come up with a solution to what I see as a figure gap but if they don't then customers will have to make their own decisions as to what figures/software to use going forward. I prefer to act from knowledge rather than emotion.

2 pages filled with txt.
A Forum that has given up its formating.
Some name calling.
An intervention by a Mod.

And nobody has had the guts to answer the OP honestly.

V6/M6 are DS only. Period, and of argument.

At the cost of nerves and hair (your own, not the figures) some "can" get them to work 50% in Poser.

One at a time that is.

Load and cloth 2 or more in a scene and start making coffee to fill the wainting gaps.

Quote - 2 pages filled with txt.
A Forum that has given up its formating.
Some name calling.
An intervention by a Mod.

And nobody has had the guts to answer the OP honestly.

V6/M6 are DS only. Period, and of argument.

At the cost of nerves and hair (your own, not the figures) some "can" get them to work 50% in Poser.

One at a time that is.

Load and cloth 2 or more in a scene and start making coffee to fill the wainting gaps.

The OP wanted to know what the differences between V6/M6 and V4/M4 and V5/M5, which is already set up in Poser.

Since the OP already has Genesis set up in Poser, saying that it is DS only does not answer his question, but derails the thread even more that it was on the first page.  All of the figures in question were created with DS. M4/V4 were created with ExP technology, where that tool is part of the DAZ Studio software, and allows channels to be added to the figures that does not overwrite existing channels. This is how addons such as Aiko, stephanie 4, Morphs++, Muscle Morphs, and Creature creator morphs are added to the base figure.  Also there is functionality in V4/M4, such as torso and arm length, that is DS only as well. So all three have features that are DS only.

So basically you still specified something that is common in all three products.

If you have actually all three characters then I would think you could see what are the difference so the OP has a better idea of what the differences are and could contructively contribute to the discussion. But saying DS only doesn't adequately describe the differences between all three, because all of them have features that only can be used in DS.

EDIT: I had started to type up what I believed the differences between Genesis 2 and the other characters, since I own and developed products for all three, but I checked back and saw the drama unfolding and waited until it died down. I can add that in if the OP wants to know.

Quote - 2 pages filled with txt.
A Forum that has given up its formating.
Some name calling.
An intervention by a Mod.

And nobody has had the guts to answer the OP honestly.

V6/M6 are DS only. Period, and of argument.

At the cost of nerves and hair (your own, not the figures) some "can" get them to work 50% in Poser.

One at a time that is.

Load and cloth 2 or more in a scene and start making coffee to fill the wainting gaps.

Now is that honesty, or personal experience? Because I can use them just fine in Poser. Render speeds using G2 in Poser are no different than using any other figure. Only slowdown is when morphing in preview because most don't set sub-D to 0, you only need it turned up just before rendering. Sure it takes a bit longer to load clothing, But I don't mind the extra wait knowing I will have an awesome character render.

Quote - 2 pages filled with txt.
A Forum that has given up its formating.
Some name calling.
An intervention by a Mod.

And nobody has had the guts to answer the OP honestly.

V6/M6 are DS only. Period, and of argument.

At the cost of nerves and hair (your own, not the figures) some "can" get them to work 50% in Poser.

One at a time that is.

Load and cloth 2 or more in a scene and start making coffee to fill the wainting gaps.

Would venders keep bothering with DSON if it didn't sell ?
Isn't it the Artist choice to deside if Gen2 is for there Poser ?

Hi Everyone again! I still would like to know the difference between Genesis 2 and other figures. Cheers

Quote - Hi Everyone again! I still would like to know the difference between Genesis 2 and other figures. Cheers

Which other figures? You need to be more specific, because there are differences between each of them depending on who made them. 

~Shane

Quote - Hi Everyone again! I still would like to know the difference between Genesis 2 and other figures. Cheers

There's no other mesh out there that you can compare to Genesis 2.

There's Genesis 2 and then there's the rest.

Quote - Hi Everyone again! I still would like to know the difference between Genesis 2 and other figures. Cheers

Let's start with genesis versus Gen 4.

Genesis has around 18k polys versus the (i think) 70K polys in Gen4. Genesis uses pixars opensubdivision to smooth out the low poly mesh. With some tricks in how those polys are placed you can get some decent looking morphs out of the mesh... or have characters that use the HD technology.

Genesis is able to use multiple UVs and can be switched on the fly in DS or via a companion file in Poser. Gen4 only has one UV per character.

Genesis is weightmapped for improved bending. Genesis also can have adjusted rigging so you can make larger or smaller characters on the fly. Any genesis character can use clothing made for it, with the automorph generation (or transfer active morphs in Poser). Some extreme shapes may need custom fits, but generally clothing will fit.

Genesis also supports geografted items, which replace parts of genesis' mesh, so you can add horns, tails, or genitalia.

Genesis does not have injection channels, morphs are added to the figure via dsf files containing morph and rigging information. The morphs are added when the figure is loaded into the scene. This keeps morphs from overwriting each other like in Gen4 and you won't run out of injection channels. Gen 4 uses injection channels, but can add additional channels via ExP technology, which adds new channels to a figure.

The genesis platform allows you to create character files, so you have premade figures that automatically load, such as the base V5 and M5 characters. You can use wearable files, which allows you to load a particular outfit on a character via a single preset. So if you had a football outfit, instead of loading each piece you would load the entire outfit via a preset.

Genesis 2 has the same features of Genesis 1 but:

• Is separated into a male and female base. This makes it easier for content developer to make gender specific clothing (for example it was difficult to make a bra on genesis as the base figure had no breasts), the polygons are arranged slightly different to add more detail to specific parts of each gender, and each has a specific weight map that allows more gender-specific bending, which needs less correctives than making a specific gender with an androgynous shape like genesis 1. Genesis 1 uses a single base figure which contains both male and female morphs, it allows users to mix morphs, but requires a lot more correctives behind the scene that a vendor has to make to correct for the single weightmap.

• Has about 21K polygons versus genesis 1's 18K. Each figure has a slightly different polygon flow and distribution.

• Both male and female characters are able to share clothing. You would have to use either autofit in DS or the Cross fit tool which adds the gender directly to the clothing, bypassing autofit, which works well for things like tunics, dresses and loin cloths.

• Both genesis 2 figures can also share morphs. Each figure has a clone of the other so those can be used to transfer mrophs.

• Genesis 2 has a rigged jaw so it handles expressions a lot better than Genesis 1.

• Bending is improved in genesis 2 due to the improved gender specific weight map and rigging.

Both Genesis 1 and 2 can use HD technology with allows a vendor to sculpt detail into a subdivided mesh and use that as an enhancement of the base morph. So you could create a characters then a HD version that has skin folds, wrinkles, creases, moles, etc for a more detailed character when rendered.

That's enough to at least get the list started.

Thanks for the concise list of features and differences Male_M3dia.

One correction I would make though, is that Genesis 1 is also separated into male and female bases, like Genesis 2. It wasn't to begin with, but it is now, and has been for as long as I've been working with it, (off and on for at least the past year, definitely prior to V6/M6). 

~Shane

Quote - Thanks for the concise list of features and differences Male_M3dia.

One correction I would make though, is that Genesis 1 is also separated into male and female bases, like Genesis 2. It wasn't to begin with, but it is now, and has been for as long as I've been working with it, (off and on for at least the past year, definitely prior to V6/M6). 

 

~Shane

No, genesis is a single figure. Are you looking at a character preset for those male and female bases?

No, i'm looking at "Basic male" "Basic Female" and "Basic child" all listed as actors, under Genesis Starter Essentials. 

~Shane

Once again! Many thanks.I now have a clear idea on which way to go! Cheers

A bit more explanation of how genesis is one figure:

Triax figures such as Genesis, Genesis 2, the DS version of Dawn or the DAZ Horse 2 distinguish their characters by folder heirarchy. Any morphs below a particular character directory are loaded for that figure. 

For example if you were to look in the structure for genesis at data - DAZ 3D-Genesis ,  you would see a 'Base' folder (and possible a genitalia folder(s) if you bought any of the pro packs that had it). then below that are folders for the UVs, morphs, projections, clones, etc. So both the male and female morphs are combined when the figure is loaded.

For Genesis 2, instead of a base directory there is a Male and a Female directory, each containing sets of morph, UV, etc directories. So this is set up for a male and female figure. Since morphs and uvs are files, you can easily just copy morphs and uvs back and forth for them to be available in each figure, though for morphs there may be some slight differences because the deltas are based on a particular base.

Quote - No, i'm looking at "Basic male" "Basic Female" and "Basic child" all listed as actors, under Genesis Starter Essentials. 

 

~Shane

Those are morphs of the genesis figure. Genesis is still the base shape. A character preset would give the illusion that its a separate figure because it hides the dials that are set. So you could load the basic male shape preset and still see a dial for V5 in it because everything is loaded into one figure.

Caminandas seems to fit this thread

Quote - No, i'm looking at "Basic male" "Basic Female" and "Basic child" all listed as actors, under Genesis Starter Essentials. 

 

~Shane

It's just genesis with one of those morphs dialed in.

Ok Gotcha. 

DS's library is extremely confusing to navigate, which is why I rarely use it. Everything is dumped in one folder and I have to scroll through everything just to find the base figure I'm looking for. I've yet to find a way to separate clothing from materials or props or figures or other models. 

Regardless, once I find her in the pile, I can send Genesis 1 female shape to zbrush and build a bra for her with no confusion as to which gender she is. 

~Shane

Quote -

• Genesis 2 has a rigged jaw so it handles expressions a lot better than Genesis 1.

Forgive me for forgetting about this. It's actually the main reason I decided to try M6 and V6. The expressions simply are much better.

As for how well it works in Poser, I'd say much better than 50%. It's a bit of a PITA to install (though Daz forums are very helpful in getting you through this). And the Poser Companion Files are organized in a truly bizarre fashion. But you can reorganize any of the folders inside the library directory of your runtime, so that's not really an issue once you get a system going. 

I lost a few hairs installing Genesis. But that's mainly because I hadn't slept for 30 hours when I did it. :)

I do wish more vendors included Poser Companion Files. But I understand why they might not. The fact that Daz offers an unconditional refund within 30 days means that if you buy something that you can't get to work, you're not stuck with a purchase you can't use.

Loading multiple figures in a scene isn't something that the vast majority of renders requires. Most are of a single figure. And frankly, when I first got V4, I couldn't load more than 2 of her without Poser crashing. If I'd given up then, well... hmm... I'd have a lot more money in the bank, I guess. But you get my point.

The only issues I have are: 1. a slow down of the Poser UI, specifically the parameter dials, when I use fully clothed HD characters, and 2. DSON doesn't seem to understand visibility settings on body parts and tends to make them unselectable instead. However, if you've got "Poke-Away" (a morph that makes individual body parts extremely slender, which is a great solution), you don't need to use visibility settings to deal with pokethru.

Once I have characters posed and clothed, though, renders are just as fast as rendering Gen 4 characters.

As for Genesis itself, it's actually quite a joy to load up an extreme morph, like JoeQuick's Mouse or RawArt's Rat, load some Genesis compatible clothing, use the DSON apply current morphs script, and watch the clothing fit. Magic.

Quote - Ok Gotcha. 

DS's library is extremely confusing to navigate, which is why I rarely use it. Everything is dumped in one folder and I have to scroll through everything just to find the base figure I'm looking for. I've yet to find a way to separate clothing from materials or props or figures or other models. 

Regardless, once I find her in the pile, I can send Genesis 1 female shape to zbrush and build a bra for her with no confusion as to which gender she is. 

 

~Shane

On genesis 1, you would generally build on the base shape. You can build to any particular shape but you would have to use an option in the Transfer Tool to reverse the clothing to the base shape and clean the mesh up. If you had any details on the clothing, they may end up warped using this method.

This is basically one of the major reasons for the gender split in genesis 2 as you don't have to do all that to get an outfit and designed on a female shape.

Did anybody mention Breast bones? Genesis 2 male and female has breast bones, meaning you can just click on each breast and move it around at will, and does not require movement morphs like Genesis1 in order to move the breasts. This comes in handy especially when applying clothing where you can move them around to get a more defined fit. You can also adjust the x y and z scaling of each breast, which I think is very handy. It also helps in creating a more natural appearance in posing if the character leaning to one side. EG just move the breasts slightly in that direction to simulate gravity.

I forgot about the breast bones. Sometimes they are a nuisance on the male characters though and i have to adjust the bones back on some poses.

Also about the file structure in DS:

Yes, the structure takes some getting used to because you have to set up a character in two places: under the data folder which is where the actual definition of the morphs and clothing go, then specific places for where the user actually accesses:

People - this would be where you generally would find each figure and their respective characters, clothing, hair, materials, etc.

Props - this would be the props and sets for a scene (things get mixed up here)

Lights - This would be for ds-specific lights

Environments - these would be full sets for a scene (though props get mixed up here)

(The above items are generally define as user facing files, so you can generally move these anywhere you want, but unless you understand how things are set up you probably shouldn't. Anything in the data directory should NOT be moved... that's like trying to organize your geometry directory which is kind of a no-no since it would be like organizing your obj files where the cr2s and props can't find them)

Runtime - generally textures would fall under this directory though if you have any poser items, they would fall under this directory as well. This is generally why I would keep Genesis items in their separate runtime from other Poser items so you don't get the urge to start organizing things like you would regular poser runtimes because you'll quickly foul up your genesis set up. Because your DSON/Genesis items are sitting above the runtime structure, you can mess up your set up here as well, so it's good to just keep Genesis items separated from Poser items)

If you do organize the Poser companion files, all four files with the same name and different extensions have to move with it. (for example, a pz2 companion file would have a .duf, .py, and .png file that all need to be moved together with it. The pz2 would have a python call in it to the .py which calls into Poser's plugin architecture and the .duf is the actual file with the information. A companion file with the .mc6 extension may have Poser-specific shader information in it in addition to the calls mentioned previously)

and they say there's no manuel ;)

Quote - I forgot about the breast bones. Sometimes they are a nuisance on the male characters though and i have to adjust the bones back on some poses.

Also about the file structure in DS:

Yes, the structure takes some getting used to because you have to set up a character in two places: under the data folder which is where the actual definition of the morphs and clothing go, then specific places for where the user actually accesses:

People - this would be where you generally would find each figure and their respective characters, clothing, hair, materials, etc.

Props - this would be the props and sets for a scene (things get mixed up here)

Lights - This would be for ds-specific lights

Environments - these would be full sets for a scene (though props get mixed up here)

(The above items are generally define as user facing files, so you can generally move these anywhere you want, but unless you understand how things are set up you probably shouldn't. Anything in the data directory should NOT be moved... that's like trying to organize your geometry directory which is kind of a no-no since it would be like organizing your obj files where the cr2s and props can't find them)

Runtime - generally textures would fall under this directory though if you have any poser items, they would fall under this directory as well. This is generally why I would keep Genesis items in their separate runtime from other Poser items so you don't get the urge to start organizing things like you would regular poser runtimes because you'll quickly foul up your genesis set up. Because your DSON/Genesis items are sitting above the runtime structure, you can mess up your set up here as well, so it's good to just keep Genesis items separated from Poser items)

If you do organize the Poser companion files, all four files with the same name and different extensions have to move with it. (for example, a pz2 companion file would have a .duf, .py, and .png file that all need to be moved together with it. The pz2 would have a python call in it to the .py which calls into Poser's plugin architecture and the .duf is the actual file with the information. A companion file with the .mc6 extension may have Poser-specific shader information in it in addition to the calls mentioned previously)

Thank you! That's very helpful.

I keep a separate directory for Genesis content, indeed. I don't touch the folders in the Daz library. But I do organize the folders in the runtime>library. Mainly, I'm just moving or renaming folders so I don't have, for example, Genesis 2 male clothing under: Genesis 2 and Daz Genesis 2 and Genesis 2 male and People>Genesis 2> and Daz People>Genesis 2... and so on. All the G2M clothing subfolders beneath those categories can go into one directory for Genesis 2 male clothing. I haven't noticed any issues with Poser finding the correct files. :)

Quote -  

Thank you! That's very helpful.

I keep a separate directory for Genesis content, indeed. I don't touch the folders in the Daz library. But I do organize the folders in the runtime>library. Mainly, I'm just moving or renaming folders so I don't have, for example, Genesis 2 male clothing under: Genesis 2 and Daz Genesis 2 and Genesis 2 male and People>Genesis 2> and Daz People>Genesis 2... and so on. All the G2M clothing subfolders beneath those categories can go into one directory for Genesis 2 male clothing. I haven't noticed any issues with Poser finding the correct files. :)

Those folders would be the Poser version of the user facing files; the poser files you're moving are just shells for the DSON Importer calls. So the four versions of the files I said in my previous post should stay together. The files that are in the DSON Core installer contain the data directory, so as long as Poser knows where the data directory is you should be fine.

Quote - > Quote -  

Thank you! That's very helpful.

I keep a separate directory for Genesis content, indeed. I don't touch the folders in the Daz library. But I do organize the folders in the runtime>library. Mainly, I'm just moving or renaming folders so I don't have, for example, Genesis 2 male clothing under: Genesis 2 and Daz Genesis 2 and Genesis 2 male and People>Genesis 2> and Daz People>Genesis 2... and so on. All the G2M clothing subfolders beneath those categories can go into one directory for Genesis 2 male clothing. I haven't noticed any issues with Poser finding the correct files. :)

Those folders would be the Poser version of the user facing files; the poser files you're moving are just shells for the DSON Importer calls. So the four versions of the files I said in my previous post should stay together. The files that are in the DSON Core installer contain the data directory, so as long as Poser knows where the data directory is you should be fine.

Perfect. Thank you. :)