Inconsiderate people fill page after page of argumentative babble so ya can't have the conversation ya trying to have.
Then my thread gets locked for others inconsideration.
I want to know ,what there punishment was for disrupting are conversation
& getting my thread locked ?

Maybe stop bringing up conversations that you know have a history to start arguments? Or make your question more specific instead of such a broad topic. 

Too many people want to argue, instead of just ignoring inflamatory posts and those who post them. That's called feeding trolls. If no one responds to them then eventually they will go away. If they post something that violates ToS then a moderator will deal with it. If it's something major then you can send me a PM and I'll get it when I get back. I'm not always here just because my name says I'm logged in. And I'm not always following every thread.

When you do respond to them then you're putting yourself at risk of being the one that gets reprimanded. People seem to think that they are free to retaliate and not be held accountable for it, but retaliatory attacks are just as much against the ToS as an attack.

There are a few members here who like to say things they know push buttons but do it in such a way that does not violate ToS. The only way to counteract that is to ignore them. If you absolutely have to respond then do it in a way that can't possibly be seen as an attack or a counter attack. But even then that does not always result well, so the best action is to simply ignore them. That's why everyone has an ignore button.

Responding to posts that border on arguing usually always results in an argument and then you're both equally as guilty. Your opinion does not make you right or the other person wrong, and yet its usually always opinions being tossed around that starts these arguments. If someone says something that you know positively is not true then you can say so and provide evidence to correct it, as long as you do it in a mature manner, the way you would approach a co-worker. Debating an issue is not the same as arguing. Debating provides verifiable proof when there's a disagreement over something. 

Arguing is what gets most of these threads locked. And for the record, the Dawn thread was not locked for what Zevo said. I didn't even see his last post before I locked it. 

As for punishments and actions taken against other members, you're not entitled to that information. The only one you need to be concerned about is yourself.

~Shane

A professional forum where we can talk about Poser & CGI in peace would be cool.
Where are threads don't get infested with pointless endless arguments and locked cause of others.
Cause It's really getting old.

Apearenty the ToS are not working like they alt to.
Maybe we should upgrade them.

I don't mind opinions as long as they don't insist that I have there same opinions.
So why don't we add that to the ToS.

And add ,anyone that argues endlessly pointlessly & continuously & gets threads locked.
we could add that to the ToS.

Are they not reasonable ToS rules ?

I know my thread got locked cause one made a personal attack against 2 others.
I agree no one should make personal attacks.
but it's not fair to my thread to get locked cause someone else broke the rules.
Can't you just delete the rule breaking post instead of locking my threads ?

I'm sure this isn't personal to you, Rorr. 

Moderator can go through a thread that's gotten out of hand and read the thread, and pick and choose which posts to keep and which to delete. If he does that, he'll have 20 PM's from people wanting to know why THEIR post was deleted. It will take him all night.

Or moderator can lock the thread, leaving the evidence behind for anyone who wants to see why it was locked. And he'll still have some of the evening left for... his life. 

Moderation could be crowd-sourced, but I'm sure there are good reasons that almost no forums do it.

Or mod could be paid a real full-time wage -- but somehow, I don't think we have quite the traffic in the forums to justify that.

I hate seeing any thread locked if it is 'engineered' by someone posting and just does not like the way the discussion is going.  In this case I, emphasis on the 'I', think the Dawn thread had reached the point that there was no other choice as it was getting personal and going down hill fast.  Whether or not it was engineered, people can make their own decision.

And Moderators sometimes have the problem of leaving an inflammatory post while removing the replies that came as a result of it.  I see my reply to Wolf has been removed, but his question to me remains.  It makes it look like I can't answer stuff like that.

My reply was put there because there was a question, and by leaving that question intact, you are indicating that you're fine with the question being there.  If you're fine with the question being there then you should be fine with my reply to it.  My reply is my opinion and that is what was used as my reply.

You're effectively saying you're ok with the question, but you're not ok with the reply so you'll just delete the reply until the reply is acceptable to you.  If a person practiced such a move on the street, they'd be lynchmobbed.

You should either put back my reply or remove the bait, because as long as the bait remains, you're indicating it is ok to reply to it.

Quote -
And Moderators sometimes have the problem of leaving an inflammatory post while removing the replies that came as a result of it.  I see my reply to Wolf has been removed, but his question to me remains.  It makes it look like I can't answer stuff like that.

My reply was put there because there was a question, and by leaving that question intact, you are indicating that you're fine with the question being there.  If you're fine with the question being there then you should be fine with my reply to it.  My reply is my opinion and that is what was used as my reply.

You're effectively saying you're ok with the question, but you're not ok with the reply so you'll just delete the reply until the reply is acceptable to you.  If a person practiced such a move on the street, they'd be lynchmobbed.

You should either put back my reply or remove the bait, because as long as the bait remains, you're indicating it is ok to reply to it.

You can always take your response to sitemail. It keeps the thread from becoming argumentative or locked and can also keep it on track. That's something I miss from either my AOL or Compuserve days, when you could answer a particular post, but keep the main thread on track. At any rate answering via sitemail is the next best thing and probably the best solution.

In my reply, I actually asked that any replies are done by messaging me, so agree on that.  I feel just as bad as anyone else about RorrKonn's thread getting locked, I have nothing against him, I like the guy and there's no reason I would want to get his thread locked.

It still remains, though, that Wolf is asking me a question in his post.  Either Shane left it there accidentally, or he's fine with the question being there.  If he's fine with the question being there now that he knows my reply to it, the post is bait because he knows what my reply would be and he's leaving it open for the question to be replied to.

It's a taunt, so if the reply that came of it wasn't acceptable, then nor should the taunt be.

Quote -
In my reply, I actually asked that any replies are done by messaging me, so agree on that.  I feel just as bad as anyone else about RorrKonn's thread getting locked, I have nothing against him, I like the guy and there's no reason I would want to get his thread locked.

It still remains, though, that Wolf is asking me a question in his post.  Either Shane left it there accidentally, or he's fine with the question being there.  If he's fine with the question being there now that he knows my reply to it, the post is bait because he knows what my reply would be and he's leaving it open for the question to be replied to.

It's a taunt, so if the reply that came of it wasn't acceptable, then nor should the taunt be.

Yeah, well, let it go. In the course of things it's not that important and no use bringing that mess into a new thread.

Maybe we should start a "Take it to Sitemail" campaign. Whenever the thread looks like it's in danger of being  derailed or an argument breaks out, someone (or maybe everyone) should kindly suggest the participants take their conversation to sitemail.

Such things are extremely important, so hopefully he will rectify it.

Quote - Too many people want to argue, instead of just ignoring inflamatory posts and those who post them. That's called feeding trolls. If no one responds to them then eventually they will go away.

If you ban the trolls, you don't have to wait for them to leave or deal with any of it.

Pretty simple concept... Rarely utilized.... Covered in the TOS....

     "Members and users are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that is constructive and respectful of others at all times........................"

""Maybe stop bringing up conversations that you know have a history to start arguments? Or make your question more specific instead of such a broad topic. "

This ^

.....and this thread moves towards locking. since the fights now move to here.

".....and this thread moves towards locking. since the fights now move to here."

we hope not.

Back on topic @ Rorrkorn Although  I personally received no PM's from the staff regarding any of my comments in the "Dawn"Thread please consider the possibility that others may have been given reminders.
all moderation is not done pubilcly.. the mods are on the  job.

and the fight is STILL being brought to a thread that has NOTHING to do with it.

A thread which:

A - Would not exist if it weren't for the way things are being moderated.
B - I would not be posting in if liberties were not being taken with my opinion.

"and the fight is STILL being brought to a thread that has NOTHING to do with it."

Mods notified.

Pumeco: Dude... seriously????

We just went over this! You even agreed with me! WTF?  Please!  This is a whole 'nother thread and you're still going on about something that happen in the LAST thread that got locked!

Please:

a. Put Wolf 359 on ignore, and,

b. Let it go and DON"T DERAIL THIS THREAD! or,

c. TAKE IT TO SITEMAIL.

Quote -
A thread which:

A - Would not exist if it weren't for the way things are being moderated.
B - I would not be posting in if liberties were not being taken with my opinion.

and NOTHING to do with your disagreement in the other thread. whats next? taking over a thread on hair? one on cars?

*get real dude. this is the behaviour thats being complained about!

pumeco : out of the last 12 post 1/3 of the post on this thread are about your probleam with another member.

would be best if talked privatly with AmbientShade about it.

before this thread gets locked.

*That's why?  "cos you won the argument"?  On a hardly important forum?  That's why you are acting like this?  *

I Wish that's all I had to worry about in life.  Cya around dude. 

erm no... I think, really, you are having a tantrum.

please do not speak to me again...

/ OT

Quote - You misread: I did win the argument...

So if you did win the argument, why not just drop it and move on.

Your constant ranting about what a Mod did will do nothing....

Best of my knowledge, you are not a mod. Get over it already.

/back to thread

Oh, I didn't misread it at all. I did read the posts of yours that got removed, and I agree with the mods decision.

You are missing the point all of us are trying to make: You are having a tantrum because 'I won the argument, but people cant see it because it got removed'

Be an adult and let it go. Please

moriador  : I can't imagine doing this job for a $100.00 a day much less for free.

hornet3d : problem is anyone can get a thread locked with one sentence.

EClark1894 : Thanks for you support.

shvrdavid : Want to be a Mod ?

wolf359 : Maybe I could have titled my thread better or worded a question better.
I'm so sick of this civil war .
I didn't know dawn was considered the enemy.
I know it would never happen
but we alt to be able to talk about any software or any mesh in a battle free conversation.

pumeco, why don't you take your own advice,  and sitemale ambientshade about the issue.

Might get you a quicker response without ticking off everyone else in this thread.

Well, I think everyone should step back and exhale. First, I think this thread has pretty much run it's course, (sorry Rorrkon). Second, we've all ignored AmbientShade's advice. Pumeco has had his say, and if he hasn't finished, then just don't respond anymore until he has something noteworthy to say about the onpoint topic.

No point in to keep on kicking this can down the road.

And if you do feel the need to respond to Pumeco:

Take it to sitemail!

Quote - Well, I think everyone should step back and exhale. First, I think this thread has pretty much run it's course, (sorry Rorrkon). Second, we've all ignored AmbientShade's advice. Pumeco has had his say, and if he hasn't finished, then just don't respond anymore until he has something noteworthy to say about the onpoint topic.

No point in to keep on kicking this can down the road.

And if you do feel the need to respond to Pumeco:

 

Take it to sitemail!

The campaign has not run it's course until we have a place to talk CGI in peace.
If it takes a 1000 locked threads to get there so be it.

In the Poser 4,5 days .
I said I would make meshes for Poser when Poser got SubD's on this forum.
So now I'm going to make Poser meshes on this forum.

I know I'm jumping threads here but one thing that V4 had going for her was a peaceful forum.

Quote - shvrdavid : Want to be a Mod ?

All they have to do is ask.... Wouldn't be the first time I was a mod and/or admin of a site.

Be careful what you wish for, lol...

"Best of my knowledge, you are not a mod. Get over it already."

David, I wouldn't want to be a mod even if they paid me, so I'm totally baffled by that comment!

I get ya feel picked on bulled and baited.
just feels like everyone is against you so you strike back.
I get it.
but all this fighting is causing a lot of trouble for every one.
Is it fair that my threads keep getting locked cause of others ? no.
but if I get on the forums and start a fight .that will only make it worse.
you half to use politics to resolve what problems can be resolved.
you half to stop fighting or leave.

Quote -
"Best of my knowledge, you are not a mod. Get over it already."

David, I wouldn't want to be a mod even if they paid me, so I'm totally baffled by that comment!

My point is that any mod can delete what they see fit and there is really nothing anyone that is not a mod can do about it other than not post.

Yeah, you can bitch and complain about it, but chances are better than good that it won't change a thing.

Can it be undeleted? Chances are really good that it can be.

Will it be undeleted? I seriously doubt it.

Will something that you or I think should be deleted get deleted? Again, seriously doubt it, or it would already be gone.

If you had posts deleted, so be it. It was a mods choice to delete it, just like it was your choice to post it.

There is nothing fair or unfair about the moderation either, it is just moderation.

You don't have to like it, I don't have to like it. I don't complain about what I can not change anymore.

I ran into a similar situation years ago with some of my posts on another site, and they were quick to inform me that I was more than welcome to post elsewhere.

@RorrKonn
I don't feel bullied, I never feel bullied because I can look after myself online and on the street (and I get the impression you're exactly the same).

At the end of the day the thread will either get rectified or I won't need to make the decision to leave myself, Renderosity will do that for me.  Companies usually take the easy way out, so they'll likely do the same.

@David
True, but I don't have to be fine with selective moderation either.

@ RorrKonn -

IMO it’s impossible to have a discussion about the different third-party human figures without a thread becoming argumentative because they are primarily commercial platforms. That’s enough to generate strong opinions.

When it comes to discussing software it’s a similar issue. Example - I have AppX. Someone asks how to do something and I respond, AppX can do that. Someone else responds and says, ah, but AppZ can do that faster and better. The result is conflict - I have invested time (and possibly money) learning AppX and someone has just told me that it was a waste of effort. I will immediately look for reasons that I am right and they are wrong, because otherwise I may have to consider that I made a bad investment. Which would make me feel a bit stupid, and who likes feeling stupid?

If you’re going to make your own meshes for Poser (excellent!) then my suggestion would be try to make your threads/questions quite specific and avoid discussing or drawing direct comparisons with existing figures/models. On software, if you ask which app is better for modelling (for example) you’re more likely to get arguing, but if you ask what kind of workflow other people are using to do stuff - get them to talk about their experience - there is more chance it’ll be constructive.

Comparisons between things when people have time and money invested in those things is always going to be asking for trouble ;)

Quote - @David
True, but I don't have to be fine with selective moderation either.

Would you be upset if one of my posts was deleted? Or would you be selective about what you said about that?

Interesting thought, isn't it....

The bottom line is that we don't have to like it, and complaining about it is not going to change it.

It's a given...

I've suspended two people today. I have no problems suspending more. 

The arguing stops now. I don't care who said what or who feels like they're being unfairly treated. The next argument that springs up for any reason on any thread, everyone involved gets a 7 day vacation, and I can extend that indefinitely for anyone who has a problem with it. Maybe then the rest of the members here can use this forum in peace. 

~Shane

"The arguing stops now"

I'm sorry to read that, I was having so much fun (especially when rendering takes time).

We're living in a fantasy world, where Reality has become a product, where we're discussing the six lifes of a cat named Vicky while on Earth only a few celebreties have made it to Wife 8.0 (or 9.0 or even 10.0, see http://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities-with-the-most-marriages/general_crack which is complete OT anyway).

And where trolls have become alive in the forum, troll feeding is prohibited, the zookeeper gets angry about it and sends us on vacation for punishment.

Anyway, can we get a forum for answering questions at the content / techniques level, and a separate one for the zoo we apparently need so much?

@ RorrKonn -

IMO it’s impossible to have a discussion about the different third-party human figures without a thread becoming argumentative because they are primarily commercial platforms. That’s enough to generate strong opinions.

This kinda like a catch 22.
I need to know what CGI Artist like and dislike about there mess.
So how would you find out with out war breaking out ?

When it comes to discussing software it’s a similar issue. Example - I have AppX. Someone asks how to do something and I respond, AppX can do that. Someone else responds and says, ah, but AppZ can do that faster and better. The result is conflict - I have invested time (and possibly money) learning AppX and someone has just told me that it was a waste of effort. I will immediately look for reasons that I am right and they are wrong, because otherwise I may have to consider that I made a bad investment. Which would make me feel a bit stupid, and who likes feeling stupid?

Well when it comes to modeling ,I'm Killer.
but when it comes to spelling ,grammar & phrasing things correctly
,far from killer.I'm my own worse enemy at times.

I'm fascinated with CGI Software ,I play with all of them.
I don't think ones better then another I just think there different.

If you’re going to make your own meshes for Poser (excellent!) then my suggestion would be try to make your threads/questions quite specific and avoid discussing or drawing direct comparisons with existing figures/models. On software, if you ask which app is better for modelling (for example) you’re more likely to get arguing, but if you ask what kind of workflow other people are using to do stuff - get them to talk about their experience - there is more chance it’ll be constructive.

Comparisons between things when people have time and money invested in those things is always going to be asking for trouble ;)

Probably why trouble seemed to attach it's self to me.
Don't want or need trouble ,it's never good for business.
Thanks for your advice sincerely appreciated.

Quote - Anyway, can we get a forum for answering questions at the content / techniques level, and a separate one for the zoo we apparently need so much?

ROFL.

You have no idea how many times this same thought crossed my mind while I was a Mod! 

Quote - > Quote - Anyway, can we get a forum for answering questions at the content / techniques level, and a separate one for the zoo we apparently need so much?

ROFL.

You have no idea how many times this same thought crossed my mind while I was a Mod! 

we had one. long long ago.. and for some.... illogical....reasons it was shut down. since then, we've had the spill over into the main forums.

tho it's never been this bad before..

The ironic thing is that RK's locked thread ended with a question which had been asked preciously in the thread and never answered.  :rolleyes:

There is a lot of good information on this Forum, but some folks need to stow their egos.  I'm sure glad I decided not to volunteer to be a Mod; I had considered it last time around....  :scared:

okay, let's focus on the  main issue as set by our OP RorrKonn:

"I need to know what CGI Artist like and dislike about there mess.
So how would you find out with out war breaking out ?"

Well, I can give you no facts but my opinion only, for what it's worth.

My first consideration is that the forum-community, the gallery community, the community of freeby users and the one of content purchasers are only mildly overlapping. So I might ask the forum but when the threat gets locked I'd grab what I've got and then that's about it. The forum is not the users!

Then I would approach various gallery-users whose images are about in line with the stuff I'd like to make, and ask them directly in site mail.

For freebies and commercial stuff, the trick is to get to the users / buyers, which are not the makers / vendors! One way is to make some free stuff for various characters, then see which of those runs best. Perhaps you can include a questionaire with the product pack, and offer something extra for the ones responding. Responses will be different per site.

Then make various commercial things if you want to go that route, and issue each one via a different site / route. Then evaluate the results, your satisfaction with the process, etc.

Also note that forum-users are willing to help - in most of the cases. Some well known vendors might be willing too, some others will just hold off. In any case it might pay off to approach them directly via site mail.

Simply stated: no forum-words can replace your own acting. No debates, no trolls, no zookeepers. Site mail is your friend.

Just my 2ct

Threads like this one shouldn't exist in the first place. It should be a direct question to the forum mod. This is one of those "lets stir some sh!t" threads:)

aRtBee : Thanks

RorrKonn  :

In this case should be agree with zev0, maybe these kinds of questions need to be made to persons having power of decicion and not here, I agree with your original planting, in fact I have written on several occasions that it is a total lack of respect the way arbitrary in that thread block is cleared and without regard the time and we take part in them (and I was wrong to write it here,I  should have commented as we say here "with the owners of the circus and not with monkeys") -before you delete something ambienshade , I  said it is a common saying in my country and it is not an insult at all (means asking some people who can decide)-

Ok , On the other diffrent  hand  , I think I would be a good moderator,  just have to have common sense and treat everyone equally, unfortunately now I have no time to do this task but I promise that when I have time I will offer me as a moderator, I promise not indiscriminately delete folders,not threaten members  and respect people who take the time to participate with the objective that the Poser community feel comfortable here ,and above all things I promise I'll NEVER REQUEST to  the administration here that they remove poser members from here, quite the contrary, I invite all to become involved

My slogan would be somethig like that:
Aldebaran40 for Poser moderator  2015/16
"In Aldebaran40 we trust ..."

I was a mod. for a few years over at planit3d.

Luckiliy it was a very specific and non-contentious remit, 'Hardware and Technical'...

...but what made it easy was the fact that I'm always right!

;-}