I have had people ask me over the years how to render images with my products, so I thought I would start a thread to deal with questions like that so everyone can learn and teach in one thread. I hope to learn as much as you so this is all about getting good results.

Please be kind or I will not come here again. Mainly the reason I have been absent in this forum is because of fishers and trollers. 

I want this thread to be fun as well as educational.

So here is the image I want to discuss.

It is 1920 x 1080 in size and took 18 hours to render.

Will post the render setting next.

Also, please use your first name in your replies, so it is easy to answer and so I can get to know you.

Tom.

Here are my render settings.

Hi Tom,

Absolutely awesome render. ...:o)

cheers,
dr (bob) geep
;=]

Let me start with my system specs.

Frankenstein build with the biggest tower I could find.

AMD 8350 8 core at 4.01 Ghz

32 Gig of Ram

64 Bit Windows 7

2 NVidia Geforce GTX 660 running 4@ Samsung 27" Monitors

4 Plextor 256 Gig Solid State Hard Drives

1 1.5 TB 7200 spinner

and my baby a pocket Seagate 2 TB Drive for daily back up.

Never leave home with out it.

The one thing to keep in mind is as Ted has told me about a thousand times,

There is no one size fits all render setting, so these setting are for this image only

Bucket size is default 32 so anything from now on that is not listed is Poser Default settings

Number of threads 7 as I have 8 cores and want one so I can run other programs. Use Own Process is checked.

Quality is set to 12 so the renderer takes a lot more samples. A more refined image for the little details.

Shaderate default is 0.95 which is good for test renders but the default shade rate for most objects is 0.2

so my choice of 0.25 is pretty good for helping with all the small details.

Also keep in mind that it takes all these setting to get a decent image and one feed off of another.

That is why they are divided up into sections such as Quality.

Next is Features and they are my defaults

Then we have enable ray tracing check and that is my default always other wise,

you would not see reflections in the windows like you see in the first image.

Bounces is set to 1 which is good enough for all my city block sets.

Ted explains Bounces this way.

1 if you want to see your face in the mirror.

2 if you want to see the back of your head in the mirror behind you.

3 if you want to to the reflection of a reflection of a reflections such as there mirror balls setting near each other

4 if you want your render to take a few weeks.

you get the idea.

1920 x 180 is the size of mu final render.

This render took almost 18 hours to render as the picket fence you see in the yard is a transparency mapped item.

Also the SSS adds time to the render as well and the many many displacement maps on the siding snow roofing etc.

So all these things get a pretty good looking image with out resorting to Enable Indirect Light which is a whole other subject.

I had a Skydome in the image so I used a spot light with shadows set to the setting you will see next, in the post.

Tom

Thanks Bob!

I forgot to say the snow was created with Snarlygribby's Snow Maker. Thanks Royston for letting me use it in this set!

The snow in the air was from a new prop I included in this set that you can load which is a parented prop that is set right in front of the Main Camera no matter where the Main Camera is in the scene.

Then I made a simple library of materials that can be applied to the prop that have snow, rain or even fog on them.

Uses the snow number Snow 05 for this image.

Tom

Here are the settings for my light.

As I said before I used one light but I was mistaken I used a point light, with the setting you see here.

Shadow set to .65

Shadows on ect with ambient Occlusion on with the settings in the little box that shows up when you click

on [Scene O C Options] button.

Number of samples helps to get a smoother shadow and help to get rid of schmutz in the scene when white meets white in a corner or along an edge.

Ambient Occlusion is a cheap version of Indirect Lighting.

Well that should be enough to get the ball rolling.

Tom

Thumbs Up

Nice to see you venturing back in, Tom. 

Do you have any hint or tips on how to move people into/around the scene?  I have several of your sets and love them, but I do struggle to add figures to the scene and get them posed and where I want them.

Thanks.  I'm Traci, BTW

Sad that anyone should shy away from a forum for the reasons you have given, I hope this proves a better experience for you.

Love the render but have a question, how much do you think the snow adds to the render time and what benefit do you get over adding it post work. Not a criticism just an honest question.

Paul

Do you have any hint or tips on how to move people into/around the scene?  I have several of your sets and love them, but I do struggle to add figures to the scene and get them posed and where I want them.

Thanks.  I'm Traci, BTW

I'm with Glitterati on this one. When one of the blocks is loaded anywhere other than at default position, it is shifted (sometimes VERY) far from where the figures load. Would it be possible for you to put some sort of "dummy" figure at the center of each block so that the user could at least look at the X/Z coordinates of that figure and get an idea of where to set the X/Z of the character? For me, that would be a very workable, simple fix. I just am not sure how to go about doing it! :)

And yes! GREAT to see you back! Please don't let other people's jealousies run you off again!

Hi Traci and Basicwiz,

You are not alone at that one. :-)

I like to go into wire frame mode and look from the top camera.

My units in Poser are Feet.

To move to the Top is a negative number and the homes on the top which is North by the way I have built this set.

So if you want a character on the sidewalk on the north side it is about -152 on the zTran

If you wanted the character to be at the top left corner of the block you would enter -152 on the xTran

So imagine a math grid.

To the left is a negative number and to the right is a positive number.

To move up is a negative number and to move down is a positive number.

Homes 1-4 are on the North side of the block so the side walk is around -152 on the zTran

Homes 4-7 are on the East side of the grid so the sidewalk is around 152 on the xTran

Homes 7-10 are on the South side so the sidewalk is around 152 on the zTran

Homes 10-1 are on the West side and the sidewalk is around -152 on the xTran

Those numbers are good on all my city blocks now if you rotate the block you will have to figure out which home you want to be

in front of and use the same method to get in the general position.

As far as the feet are concerned the number for the top of the sidewalk is around 0.8333 on the yTran.

Those number can get you in the general area and then the spinners can take it from there instead

of having to buy a new mouse every week from trying to move and move and move.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Hi Paul I would not want to try adding in post as that would make me crazy. :-)

The snow does add to the render time but I am not sure how to figure out how much as this image was an 18 hour render.

Maybe Snarlygribby will see this post and expound on that.

Tom

Hi Paul I would not want to try adding in post as that would make me crazy. :-)

The snow does add to the render time but I am not sure how to figure out how much as this image was an 18 hour render.

Maybe Snarlygribby will see this post and expound on that.

Tom

 

I should have been more specific in my question, sorry.  Indeed I would not try to do in post work what Snow Maker can do I was referring to the snow in the air which could be a simple addition of a layer in an image manipulation program.  If the reduction time is anywhere less that 15 minutes then it would take as long to do post work.  Just looking for ways I could reduce the 18 hours render time without having a major impact on quality. 

Thanks for the tips on placing figures, that is sure going to help in the future. 

Hi Paul,

Yes that would speed things up because transparencies do add to the time.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I am one who has to do renders in Poser only because my products are for Poser only.

Post work is generally a no no, for Vendors.

Adding things like text is permitted but tricks like layering are forbidden, for site promos.

What you see is what you get, so to speak.

Tom

Hi Paul,

Yes that would speed things up because transparencies do add to the time.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I am one who has to do renders in Poser only because my products are for Poser only.

Post work is generally a no no, for Vendors.

Adding things like text is permitted but tricks like layering are forbidden, for site promos.

What you see is what you get, so to speak.

Tom

 

Thanks for that, I do understand fully that post work would be excluded for promos, it is important that the customer gets what they think they are paying for.  The addition of the prop parented to the camera is a great idea and gives the customer the option of using that or post work

 

Hi Tom,

Huge fan of your work.  Your models are amazing to me. Thanks for sharing how to render them properly.

Tom

Hi Tom, 

I have a question about transparencies.   I know they can take a long time to render with IDL so that explains using AO but I was under the impression that unchecking Light Emitter from the properties of objects that use transparencies cuts down render time with IDL.   Is that the case with AO too?  If not, then maybe it wouldn't take as long to render with IDL and Light Emitter unchecked?  I tend to use IDL, along with BB's skydome and just one light for the sun, and have found that I can significantly reduce render time in this way.

Cathy 

Huge fan. Have them. Yes I do consider myself a "Block" Head as a result! :)

Subject of the thread is "Do you have questions about my City Blocks?"

My only question is when do you think you release block 20? :)

Hi Tom, 

I have a question about transparencies.   I know they can take a long time to render with IDL so that explains using AO but I was under the impression that unchecking Light Emitter from the properties of objects that use transparencies cuts down render time with IDL.   Is that the case with AO too?  If not, then maybe it wouldn't take as long to render with IDL and Light Emitter unchecked?  I tend to use IDL, along with BB's skydome and just one light for the sun, and have found that I can significantly reduce render time in this way.

Cathy 

 

Same here. I've done big test renders on scenes where I've unchecked "light emitter" on all transparencies (especially leafy trees and bushes and grass and transmapped hair), and I've seen so little difference that I now do it as a matter of course. It does indeed reduce IDL render time dramatically, and now I render everything in IDL. Most of my images have render settings somewhere between the final settings posted above and a draft render (pix samples: 6 or 7; min shading rate: 0.4, IDL close to default). Most of them have a bunch of point lights (5-20) for candles/torches/lamps; and an image at 4k x 5k pixels generally renders in about 1.5 hours or so. I'm not running a speed demon of a machine. ---

Tom, I'm a big fan of your models! 

My question is when can we get a bus stop - Greyhound had some incredibly interesting bus stations.

Oh, and a small hospital - a lot of small towns got them in the '30's.

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay buy Ilona and I are deep into a new product and it is getting ready to ship off to Brazil to have her work her wonders!

Can't say what it is but should be in the store early next month.

In Order, here are my responses as I am still going like a cat covering up crap on a tin roof!

hornet3d Thanks for being understanding. :-)

puterdude  Thanks a lot! It is worth it to me to come in here once in a while.

Kalypso  I don't understand most of what you are asking because I don't get abbreviations.

Also, why is abbreviations such a long word. One would think there would be a shorter version of that word?

Please use whole words so I know what you are talking about as I don't come in the forums much. And I have severe

attention deficit disorder and get lost in terms real easy. Sorry.

Gary, you old Block Head, I think I would not have made it with out you man! I think you own every one of my blocks.

So because you are a good customer I will tell you when block Twenty is due. I just have to design and build it first before I can give you a firm date. :-)

Sorry bud, I am only one guy and can only do one at a time. But I will say I am back on the case so to speak when it comes to full city block sets.

They really are my true passion! Might even squeeze a car or two in here and there. Also want to do more with Ilona, if my mind can take it.

She is such a Peach!

Moriador,  Same response as Kalypso

I am actually hoping Ted will chime in here and ad his infinite wisdom to this thread. Keep in mind he has told me several times

there is no one perfect set up for every scene. They each have their own variables that call for different measures.

When it comes to Ted there is one right way, and it involves a googleplex of math. :-)

Sorry Ted You still are, and always will be the man!

ssgbryan   Those are good suggestions and will add them to my possibles list. No guarantees bud.

That is all for now as it is almost 2 in the morning and I am trying to get back on a day schedule like real people do. :-)

Tom

P.S. Why can't I click on my picture and have it expand to full size?

**
**

I love your city blocks.  would like a modern city though too.

Love esther

Hi esther,

Glad you like my stuff. :-)

Not in the Planning Commissioner's adgenda for the near future.

Sorry

Tom

City Hall is another good one.

On the list.

Even though this is not the purpose of this post. :-)

Thanks for the suggestions.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Your models are superb! They are totally Poser friendly as well which makes them even more fantastic!

I have a question which may be for anyone out there in general. When a huge set is loaded, like Tom's beach wharf set, the camera suddenly moves in tiny increments and is very jumpy. I use the 'main camera' mostly. Is there a certain Poser camera or trick way to get the camera to move around smoothly inside huge sets?

Thanks! Mike

 The City Blocks set is amazing. I salute you on the level of detail and the time you put into it. Though I haven't purchased any of them yet (and I stress YET), I love browsing through the pages and admiring how much work you've put into them. I've used Poser since 1998, and this is quite possibly the largest and most-detailed set that I've ever seen.

 As for the abbreviations used earlier: IDL means Indirect Light (which should actually be IL, since Indirect is one word, not two, and acronyms/abbreviations can only reference whole words or hyphenated words), and AO is Ambient Occlusion. SSS is Sub-Surface Scattering.

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond but I have been buried.

Coleman, the Ocean Front comes with 16 Cameras that you can use to get close to where you want to go. Once you are close then you can move the camera with the crappy little move and pan tools. I really hate them because it is like walking through molasses, with mud shoes, while wearing a tar coated pair of pants. If you select the main camera then you will see the Transform spinners show up. Keep in mind Poser is not a high end graphics program so they have limited resources to work with.

Any way, once you select the camera go to the Transform section and double click on the names of the xy and z controls and set the Sensitivity to something like 100 if you want to move the camera a hundred feet easily. For a really big move set it to 500. Just think of real world when you change these settings.

Hope that gets you pointed in the right direction.

DrNewcenstein thanks for the kind words. Also what the terms mean.

Would it not be called EIL short for Enable Indirect Light? :-)

Tom

No questions, but a lot of kudos. :=3

These are awesome models.

I have some minor quibbles, like the street signs being too modern for 1950s, and no transformers on the power poles, but what do expect from a scale model railroader and someone who does cadd work in his spare time. :=3

My latest render using your models is below. :=3

As you can see I turned off the street signs: too many stop signs on a through highway, and the outer power lines, as they didn't connect with anything.

Again, great modeling. :=3

Sorry for the double post, but I waited too long and I can't edit my previous post.

I was wondering if you could add a small city power plant that many small cities had, and some still do, like Vineland, NJ.

If not a full power plant maybe a sub-station. This would give more of a small city feel of the '50s. That and possibly a gas pressure tank, the telescoping kind, that some cities had to keep the local natural/coke gas pressurized.The power plant and gas tank could be on one block, as the gas could supply the power plant. :=3

Hi Lion,

I am not sure what you are trying to explain .

Would you be so kind as to post a couple images of what you are talking about?

Tom

Hi Lion,

I am not sure what you are trying to explain .

Would you be so kind as to post a couple images of what you are talking about?

Tom

Tom, Here are two photos. The first one is on a H-O scale railroad

and one from the 30s or 40s

LionkingCMSL

I have some minor quibbles, like the street signs being too modern for 1950s, and no transformers on the power poles, but what do expect from a scale model railroader and someone who does cadd work in his spare time. :=3

Hi Lion,

The reason I don't go to the extent that Stone Mason does on detail, is because I put a self imposed limit of 100,000 polygons on each of my city block sets.

That way you can actually have more things in the scene. :-)

The street signs that I see in my home town have been here longer than the 50's and they are very similar to the ones on my sets.

Tom

So you want several of those silver things to fill a city block?

I have a different plan in mind.

I am finishing up city block Twenty and it will feature around 12 more homes.

The next set I want to get off into industrial stuff for a while, as I really get a kick out of rigging things like cranes that travel on tracks etc..

You can bet there will be some huge tanks and conveyors and piping etc. broken out windows plywood filled windows and the like.

Also want to get a few more low poly sets after while but not sure how much people like them.

They are just for background blocks so I try to keep them under 5000 polygons.

Tom

So you want several of those silver things to fill a city block?

I have a different plan in mind.

I am finishing up city block Twenty and it will feature around 12 more homes.

The next set I want to get off into industrial stuff for a while, as I really get a kick out of rigging things like cranes that travel on tracks etc..

You can bet there will be some huge tanks and conveyors and piping etc. broken out windows plywood filled windows and the like.

Also want to get a few more low poly sets after while but not sure how much people like them.

They are just for background blocks so I try to keep them under 5000 polygons.

Tom

Tom, Not several, as there were only one or two in any one location. Putting one in an industrial setting would be ideal.

Just so you know the top and middle section(s) go up and down. Walthers, the model railroad people, have the H-O scale version that is shown in the first photograph. You can find it here: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2907 . It might help you to have a model or download the instruction sheet to see how the tanks work.

As for the low-poly sets I have only gotten two, the one included with the 81 block set and #2. I plan to buy the remaining 7 and the last remaining 3 of the City Blocks sets that I do not already own: 16, 17, and 19.

I'm sure that I'll use the low-poly sets in the future and the two sets I own look fantastic.

LionkingCMSL

I might have, I'll have to look, some pictures of the old gas plant in Racine, late forties.  IIRC, they had six of the tanks, and IIRC, they called them "gascolators", for whatever reason.  Probably something differently named somewhere else, but I don't care about somewhere else.  I remember seeing some shots of the coke furnaces that made the coal gas, not particularly spectacular, a large brick building with several large stacks.  Might have them, might not.  Old enough now those things don't mean anything to me any more, almost forty years since I lived in Rat-scene.

Doric.

Looked, nope, apparently when I relegated the ho stuff to the attic, I relegated any photos that didn't have family in them to the boxwood heater.  OH, well.  Back to my search for a blueprint house that can do something wider than 36 inches without having to pay for 3 prints to get the whole model.  Could get it done locally, at $20 per sheet, and the plan I have PDF for is three sheets.  Nope, too expensive.

Doric.