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Subject: How to make a head morph affect some but not all parts of the head (and 2 other


AsteroidLady ( ) posted Thu, 09 October 2014 at 6:22 PM · edited Wed, 20 November 2024 at 7:26 AM

If I want to use a morph, but I want to leave some parts of the head (for example the ears) unaffected, is there a way to do that? I have Blacksmith3d, if there's a way to do it in that.

Also: when importing a morph as an .obj, what number on the dial is 100%? Meaning, at what setting will it look basically the same as what was exported from the application it was made  in? (The answer isn't 1. It's less than that.)

Also: why do some of the body morphs from the morph packages only make the character's head inflate like a balloon, and don't affect the body at all?

Thanks.


RHaseltine ( ) posted Fri, 10 October 2014 at 10:04 AM

A morph just stores changes to the mesh, so if you want to leave the ears alone do just that - leave them alone. When you apply multiple morphs their effects are added, so having a morph that makes no change to the ears will not interfere with those morphs that do affect the ears. If you are seeing more effect than you expect when a morph is set to 1 then that sounds as if you were working on a shape that was already morphed itself - so your morph is adding an extra level of transformation that you were not expecting. You need to make sure that you are working on an zeroed OBJ - no morphs, not poses. The head scaling effect can be caused if there are two morph libraries - such as the RuntimeLibraries!DAZFigure name folder - on your system.


AsteroidLady ( ) posted Fri, 24 October 2014 at 8:07 PM

Thanks, what I was really asking is how to remove some information from a morph that is already created, so that I don't have to do it all over from scratch. Everything I've done is now baked in together, and some parts have gone wrong. I know there must be a way. Can't fix it with dials in Poser because the damage was done in another program. Can't undo it in that either.  It took a long time to make.  Need to know how to keep only the parts I want.


RHaseltine ( ) posted Sat, 25 October 2014 at 10:10 AM

What modeller did you use? IN modo, for example, you can copy the morphed mesh to a new copy of the figure using Background Morph, then use Apply morph through a selection to get a partial change - though you'd have to do some clean up, I imagine, at the join. ZBrush has similar possibilities though I can't recall the sequence of-hand. On the other hand, I don't think there's a way to do that in Hexagon and although I thought I'd read Blender had the needed tools last time I looked I couldn't find them.


Keith ( ) posted Sat, 25 October 2014 at 11:42 AM

Quote - If I want to use a morph, but I want to leave some parts of the head (for example the ears) unaffected, is there a way to do that? I have Blacksmith3d, if there's a way to do it in that.

 

BlackSmith3D does have the ability to do that. I forget the exact sequence since it's been a while (and a few versions ago) since I did it, but you are able to load a base figure, then the morph, and then use a brush to reverse the morph back toward the base figure where you want. As I said, i forget how, but I know it can be done.



AsteroidLady ( ) posted Sat, 25 October 2014 at 12:11 PM

I am using Blacksmith, but it is Faceshop that caused the problems. It messes up the ears and the back of the head, but I went ahead and used it at the time out of desperation to get the face right, and, as I said, everything I've done in all 3 programs is now baked in together. Looking for a way to apply it to just the face, not the ears and head. 


AsteroidLady ( ) posted Sat, 25 October 2014 at 12:13 PM

Thanks, I'll look into that.


ManOfSteel ( ) posted Sun, 26 October 2014 at 1:27 AM

Can you make a "face" that restores, say, the ears to their preferred state?  When you make a face, I believe you have the option to include whatever morph dials you want.  You could make a face that only includes the morphs that change the ears back to their preferred state.  That way you could add facial morphs or adjustments to your heart's content and then apply the "Restore Ears" face you made that will only change the ears.

I do it for poses too.  All my characters have a "back to normal" pose that restores all their settings.  I put the date in the name too so I know which one is the most current.


hborre ( ) posted Sun, 26 October 2014 at 7:23 AM
Online Now!

Unfortunately, Faceshop was not mentioned until the sixth post. The earlier versions of this particular software did not function correctly and caused similar distortions throughout the mesh.  I am not suprised that it is still a problem.  The issue is whether the mesh has been over manipulated to the point that the vertices are no longer in their original positions.  The morph targeting may no longer work.  I don't think there is any way to save this project.


AsteroidLady ( ) posted Thu, 04 December 2014 at 6:23 PM

Sorry to take so long to reply. ManOfSteel, I don't understand what is the procedure to do what you're talking about.


Teyon ( ) posted Thu, 04 December 2014 at 6:55 PM · edited Thu, 04 December 2014 at 7:01 PM

If you have ZBrush or access to ZBrush you may be able to salvage the situation.  Ideally, you'd be able to load the original, unmorphed head and then load the "damaged" one as a morph target. If that's something that you can do still, here are the steps:

Load your original head

Go to Tool>Morph Target>StoreMT

Then Load the "damaged" head

Go to Tool>Morph Target>Switch

You should now have the original head again.

Click and hold on the Standard Brush so that you can select the MORPH brush from the popup list of brushes.

Using the Morph Brush, paint only in the areas you want the Morph to appear.

Once done, go to Tool>Export and give the OBJ a unique name. Then load it into Poser as a morph target for the head of your character.

HOWEVER

If the program you were using has changed the vertex order and you can no longer use the "damaged" head as a morph target, you'll need to do this instead:

Tool>Import and import the OBJ for the original head

Tool>SimpleBrush to switch off of the original head for now.

Tool>Import and import the damaged morph

Now click on the original head and drag it onto the workspace area.

Hit EDIT in the top menu (it's right next to DRAW) - this will allow you to work on the objects in 3D space.

Then go Tool> Subtool>Append  and choose the damaged morph

Both objects should be in the scene now. Click the Eyeball icon next to the damaged morph to hide it for now.

Make sure you are working with the original head by clicking it in the subtool menu

Go to Tool>Morph Target>StoreMT

Now hold down the CTRL key (on PC - I believe it's CMD on Mac) and paint over the ears and any other part of the head you don't want changed by the morph. This is called masking.

Then click the Eyeball icon next to the damaged morph so that you can see it again.

Make sure you are working with the original head by clicking it in the subtool menu

Go to Subtool>Project>ProjectAll to project the shape of the damaged morph to the original head. Becuase you masked out the areas you don't want changed, this should only affect the areas that are unmasked. 

Hide the damaged morph as described earlier (or simply hit the Solo button while the original head is active).

Check to make sure the projection didn't create any unwanted spikes or geometry movement (this can sometimes happen depending on your settings for the projection or distance between objects).  

If you find anything that needs cleanup hold CTRL (or CMD) and drag in an empty area of the workspace. (this clears the mask you made, allowing you to edit the entire head)

Then use the Morph Brush to morph back any unwanted changes.

Export when happy with the result.

Hope that helped.


ManOfSteel ( ) posted Fri, 05 December 2014 at 2:07 PM · edited Fri, 05 December 2014 at 2:19 PM

No need to worry about the late response.

Instead of a morph, make a face that only includes the morphs you want to change.  Or make a face that only includes the morphs you want to restore.  For instance, when you save a face, there is a little button that says "Select Subset".

file_82161242827b703e6acf9c726942a1e4.jpClick on the "Select Subset" button and a list of all the morphs in the figure will appear.  Click only the morphs you want in the face, and then give the face a new name.  In this case I named it "Bruce default 12052014".  That way I know it's Bruce's plain face as of Dec. 5th, 2014.  Then you save the face.

file_1385974ed5904a438616ff7bdb3f7439.jpNow, I can screw Bruce's face up any way I want.  I can give him donkey ears, make him really mad, make his nose really big, or make a new face with a huge amount of changes, and when I want to change him back to normal, I don't have to remember what morphs I changed.  I just choose the face "Bruce default 12052014" from his library of faces and apply it, and back he goes in a flash.

The same thing can be done if you only want to change certain things.  Let's say you wanted to make a face that left the face unchanged but changed the ears and mouth to cat ears and a cat mouth.  Then you'd make a new face as above and only include the ear and mouth morphs.  That way when you apply it, ONLY the ears and mouth will change.  Or let's say you wanted to make a new face that restored his ears to the normal ones he has now but left all the other face morphs alone.  Then what you'd do is, while he's in his normal state, you'd make a new face that only includes the ear morphs.  Or let's say you made a custom morph on his face and you want to make a way to apply only that morph.  Then you'd make a new face that only includes the custom morph (or morphs).  If that custom morph changes any part of his ears, and you didn't want it to, simply choose the new face that ONLY changes his ears to a normal state.

That's for the face.

But you can do the same thing for the body with poses.  Make new poses, but only include the morphs for the bodyparts you want to change by using the "Select Subset" button to select the morphs to be included in the new pose.  Include morphs that are already in the figure, or custom morphs you made yourself.

As to your other questions, the "full" setting for morphs is indeed 1.  What might be happening is that other morphs were included in that morph that are contributing undesired effeccts to the desired effect.  When saving morphs, only the ones that need to change should be saved in it.  So if you save a new morph, say, one that makes a clown nose, and the ear morphs were not set to 0 when you saved it, then the "Clown Nose" dial is going to make the nose AND the ears change.

As to your last question, that depends on whoever made the morph, and it might have something to do with what I just said above.  Maybe, by accident, the maker of the morph forgot to set a "HeadLarger" morph (or something similar) to 0 when he made a new character morph.  Consequently, applying the new character morph is going to make the head bigger too.


Morkonan ( ) posted Mon, 08 December 2014 at 8:46 PM

Thanks, what I was really asking is how to remove some information from a morph that is already created, so that I don't have to do it all over from scratch. Everything I've done is now baked in together, and some parts have gone wrong. I know there must be a way. Can't fix it with dials in Poser because the damage was done in another program. Can't undo it in that either.  It took a long time to make.  Need to know how to keep only the parts I want.

You can't do that easily in Poser. The "Parts" that you want do not exist. Instead, the entire "Face" (The "head" group.) includes the ears, nose, eyes, mouth, etc... Those are all one "part." (A "group.") There is no way to apply morphs separately to specific features of the face. (Though, in certain versions of Poser, you can elect to apply a morph to only one side or another, along the x axis.)
Your most immediate and effective solution is to correct Faceshop's errors using either an external modeler or using Poser's "Morph Tool." You can try combining your manipulations with Poser's Morph Tool with dial adjustments for the ears from a standard morph pack, in order to get some speedier results or more correction choices. Because the ears have very dense geometry, due to their intricate topology, you may be able to get really good results just using the "Smooth" tool in Morph Tools.

Make sure you have selected a "New" morph, when using the Morph Tool. This way, you can apply the morph separately, later. You can even export the head and neck, once done, as separate objects, and then import them as morph targets in order to "back out" your adjustments and, perhaps, help to restore the mesh a little bit. It's going to take some fiddling in order to get right.

As was noted above, it is possible to use some advanced third-party modelers to manipulate object morphs in order to only allow certain vertices to respond to the morph. But, you probably don't have access to those. Still, it's worth looking around for free 3D software and its capabilities, if you really want to try to fix this.

You could also do this manually... by editing the .obj file and removing/re-zeroing the deltas for the vertices that contain the ear geometry. I wouldn't suggest making that a first choice, though. It'd be like hunting hunting a needle in a boxcar full of needles...

It might, just might, be possible that you can try to fix this issue using Poser's grouping tool. For instance, you could try loading the morph, then regrouping the ears as a new group, then zeroing out the new group, then restoring the entire "head" group and exporting the finished head as a morph target. I don't know how well this would work or if it would work, since regrouping an object generally destroys its ability to work with morphs for a now-unrecognized group. Then again, Poser does a lot of weird stuff with that sort of thing, so it might be worth a shot in the dark. (It'll probably just go nuts and lock in whatever morph you have and make it a base object, which means no morph dials will do anything at all. But, it's Poser... maybe magic will happen? :) Trying to fudge it by regrouping and hoping to fool something is better than jumping into a pool full of man-eating sharks, right? Of course it is! Probably won't work, though... :))

You could try to see if there's something in Blender you could use. It's free and only slightly less annoying to work with than a box full of wet cats. But, it has a very large user-base and a very helpful community, all who probably love herding cats... I wouldn't be too surprised if someone hasn't come up with some sort of tool or script that enables you to do this very thing. Minus the cats.

Faceshop is notorious for mangling geometry. That is mostly caused by the difficulty in applying landmark targets for the program so it can recognize geometry placement. The rest of it is caused by... Faceshop. I've had several iterations of the program in hopes that it would yield a quick, easy and cheap solution to custom face-morph bases that can be cleaned up later in a 3D app. No such luck. I've never used any Faceshop morph for anything at all - All were unusable for any decent morph result. (Because of the problems with the first iterations of Facehop, I learned how to accurately sculpt custom face-morphs in 3D applications. So, it's got that going for it, I guess... )But, your mileage may vary and if you spend a heck of a lot of time with it, you might get a usable morph out of it for one render, just so long as you don't plan on doing anything else with it.

A far better program for this sort of thing is Facegen. However, it is comparably expensive. But, it is also much more versatile.

(Note: There are plenty of old Faceshop-bashing threads, I'm not trying to bash it, here. I'm just being as honest as I can be with a frustrated Faceshop user. I couldn't code Faceshop, so it's a much better product than I could ever produce. That's not saying much, though.)


aldebaran40 ( ) posted Tue, 09 December 2014 at 6:47 AM · edited Tue, 09 December 2014 at 6:47 AM

If you have ZBrush or access to ZBrush you may be able to salvage the situation.  Ideally, you'd be able to load the original, unmorphed head and then load the "damaged" one as a morph target. If that's something that you can do still, here are the steps:

Load your original head

Go to Tool>Morph Target>StoreMT

Then Load the "damaged" head

Go to Tool>Morph Target>Switch

You should now have the original head again.

Click and hold on the Standard Brush so that you can select the MORPH brush from the popup list of brushes.

Using the Morph Brush, paint only in the areas you want the Morph to appear.

Once done, go to Tool>Export and give the OBJ a unique name. Then load it into Poser as a morph target for the head of your character.

HOWEVER

If the program you were using has changed the vertex order and you can no longer use the "damaged" head as a morph target, you'll need to do this instead:

thanks for this was very useful for me


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