@Male_M3dia
I hear you, but to be honest I just stay out of it and play it cool because honestly, without wanting to sound cocky, I know exactly where DAZ are heading with DS and Genesis, and where SM are heading with Poser.

I rely on neither of them for that reason, as far as I'm concerned it's all about format wars, simple as that.

@Vilters
Are you sure you're on a target list and that you're not just saying that to sound cool or whatever?
Doesn't sound like you at all mate, wait until Roxie hears about that!

Yeah, listen, already saw it!!!
Sounds cool, but what did you do, Vilters???
Was it really exciting, and did you get a thrill from it???
Can I call you Tony???
I've got stuff we could discuss if you wanted!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

Pumeco, read my last post. The personal atttack was on another site.
Thank you.

"To all:
Roll back in time. 10 years ago, V/M4 was the only possibility. Content creators where few, and they "rightfully so" made very good money."

.........

well...that is not really true. I have been in the market longer than 10 years, and the number of sales back then are no where near as high as they are now. There really was not good money to be made back then. There were less than a handful who could make a living off of product development. Now there are significantly more full time developers, and some of us are making good money with it.

The market has grown, but so has the quality of the figures, and also what kind of quality people have come to expect from their products. What would have passed as high quality even a couple years back just wont do anymore. People only want the best. (rightfully so)

Rawn

@Vilters
Sorry, crossposted, cool to hear the Roman outfit helped iron out some bugs!

 I think almost all the deletes and suspensions were more to do with comments getting personal and abusive rather than anyone belonging to a particular camp.

There have been a number of different threads recently that were talking of problems with DSON and all those were answered in a helpful way as far as I could see.  That is not to say there was anything wrong with DSON for, at the same time, there were also threads on problems installing V4 or M4 or getting the ++ Morphs working.

I think is has reached the point where most people have decided how they want to proceed and so it is only new Poser users and those that are returning to use Poser that want to make their choices.  One would hope we are so far away from the time of anger that we could try and help those make their choice without having an hidden agenda. 

If I had a question about using Genesis in Poser, I'd ask it at the Daz forums. After all, they should -- and can -- answer questions about the products they sell. In this forum -- depending on who's online -- it seems that you're just as likely to get misinformation or a lecture as an actual answer to your question. 

I think we'd be a lot better off if intentionally making false statements was a violation of TOS.

"DSON doesn't work in Poser" is a patently, obviously, and clearly false statement, no different in the quality of its falsehood from saying "Dawn doesn't work in Poser" or "Victoria 4 doesn't work in Poser." And repeating it over and over may well have affected the sales of those making Genesis content, and ultimately the profitability of the site that hosts those products and THIS forum. And I do not believe that simply tacking an "IMHO" (etc, etc)  to a false statement that otherwise pretends to be indisputable makes it okay.

"I don't like using the DSON importer" or "DSON doesn't work in Poser the way I think it should" are, on the other hand, legitimate statements of personal opinion.

In my experience, stating disputable opinions as though they were facts only leads to the dissemination of harmful myths, and contributes just as much to the environment of hostility as any sort of "personal" attack. Shane has said as much again and again, and I agree completely.

I don't come here much these days. We're advised to put annoying posters on our ignore list. But if I did that with all the people who are otherwise reasonable and post very useful information but still get overly passionate and irrational about one single subject, hardly any of the threads would make any sense. I'm missing so much of the conversation already that I can't follow half of them. Alas, except as a way to tune out complete idiots who never post anything useful, for me, using ignore isn't really a viable solution. 

Of course, people could stop pretending to be experts about subjects that they don't know all that much about....

"IMHO" has to be regarded as a legitimate use in disgussion though, otherwise there would be no other way to say it if that's what a person really meant.  I haven't used that term myself in this thread, but very often it's necessary to use it just to keep within the ToS and to keep people happy.  People are effectively advised to use "IMHO" so that they don't come across as being indisputable, yet you are upset that some use it and I can't even see the term used anywhere in this thread, so I don't know what posts you're talking about.

Even so, you can't have it both ways, Moriador, there'll always be that inpenetrable line where people need no accept that different people have different opinions, and that they don't have to agree with them, so really, things aren't as bad as they seem.

Here is a genuine use for "IMHO", because IMHO, the reason there is so much fighting on these forums is down to two companies (DAZ and SM), it's not down to the users, the users didn't buy into these products just so that they could let rip on a forum, they bought them because they have an interest in 3D graphics and art.  So IMHO, if either of these companies honestly gave a crap about the customers, they would realise that they need to sign a deal and decide on an open platform agreed upon by both of them, and for both of them to ensure that their own product works flawlessly with that format.

Both of them need to realise that they need to put the effort into making the actual program better than each others and to hell with the figures.  If these companies spent as much time on adding useful features and fixing bugs as they do playing their freaking childish format wars, both us, and them, and the freaking forum would be much better off.  We never had to deal with all this crap when there was no figure formats to decide between, that's why the forums were a better place back then.

If you want to complain about the starte of the forums, blame the causes, which "IMHO" are DAZ and SM, not the users of the forum.

You know what's funny, I honestly don't even know where the arguments come from half the time

Because there are still a few people who think Genesis 1/2 shouldn't be allowed to be discussed here in the Poser forum because it's a DS-based figure. What they fail to acknowledge is that there are ways to get Genesis 1/2 to function in Poser, and there are more and more people doing so, because they want to use Genesis in Poser, and those people are going to have questions about it, and Genesis is going to be an on-going topic. So for those who for whatever reasons have a problem with that, the answer is simply - deal with it. Ignore threads about Genesis if you don't want to use it or don't like it, but trying to turn every thread about it into an argument is just going to get your posts deleted and yourself suspended, cause I'm not putting up with it, and admin aren't going to put up with it. I've said this repeatedly - Genesis is not an off-limits topic here, because it does work in Poser, and those people who know how to get it to work in Poser are welcome to post here. Those who want to be immature and cause arguments are the ones who aren't welcome. Really it's that simple.  ETA: Also, anyone who prefers not to use their ignore button, due to the possibility of missing out on the overall conversation, can always PM me directly about a specific post that is argumentative or otherwise hostile that I might have missed, and I'll take care of it - instead of jumping into the argument yourself and running the risk of getting your own posts deleted. Just because someone makes a negative post does not mean you have to respond to it - that's called feeding trolls and is never a good idea.

You can also PM FictionalBookshelf or Boni - our two coordinators, if I'm not around. (Might have noticed I haven't been around much lately as I'm working a lot these days, but I'm still here as often as possible, usually in the evenings lately, and I check my PMs and e-mail at least once a day). 

I've said over and over, I don't mind what you guys discuss, as long as you keep it civil and mostly on topic, and don't derail threads or cause arguments. I really try hard not to be a nazi mod. 

No worries, and thanks for the heads-up but I try to stay out of the Genensis arguments anyway, like I said, I just don't have any interest in it.

I can say with all honesty that you won't find me dissing Genesis or DAZ Studio anywhere, not in any thread.  As far as I'm concerned, DS is something I used to like (until the Content Manager crap came along), but I don't like the way DAZ are doing things lately so I generally avoid their products now (both the figure and the program), even though I have no doubt they're still good products.

No worries, and thanks for the heads-up but I try to stay out of the Genensis arguments anyway, like I said, I just don't have any interest in it.

I can say with all honesty that you won't find me dissing Genesis or DAZ Studio anywhere, not in any thread.  As far as I'm concerned, DS is something I used to like (until the Content Manager crap came along), but I don't like the way DAZ are doing things lately so I generally avoid their products now (both the figure and the program), even though I have no doubt they're still good products.

LOL, what you did is called a backhanded compliment, which is basically a diss. Just saying "I can say with all honesty you won't find me dissing Genesis or DAZ Studio." would have been sufficient enough to keep you honest.. but then the next sentence, you actually diss the product and the company (Content manager, the way DAZ runs things, you avoid their figures). Then lastly throw a compliment to attempt to cover up the dissing. ;)

If a thread is opened with the title along the lines of "having problems with DSON" I never enter the thread, not because I hate Genesis but because I am not personally interested and have never used it.  It also means I am unable to help as I have no personal experience of using it and anything I posted would be at least third hand.  I do agree however that the post should be valid in the Poser forum and, if there is not decent answer forthcoming, there is also the Daz forum because I don't think that should be a no go area either.

The problem with the use of IMHO is that sometimes it is not that, regular posters know that the opinion is not honest and the user in question knows it because of dubious of contradictory posts from the same user in the past, unfortunately the new user does not have the information required to see through the statement.  Of course that does not mean that IMHO is not valid it is just abused, but like so many other terms, it is the user at fault not the term in question. At the end of the day it is just a fact of life.

Where I do have an issue is where Genesis or DSON is not explicit in the title but thread is hi-jacked to turn it into a Genesis issue and very rarely in a helpful manner.  I used to respond thinking that the poster was actually interested in the subject but soon learnt this was not the case so now I don't bother.  The ignore button is useful but also limited so I think in future I will follow Shane's guidance and just PM him if I have an issue and let him decide.   

@Male_M3dia
No I didn't, I dissed the way DAZ do things now, not the product, not DS, not Genesis (go back and read it properly this time).

I don't need to rationalise to anyone why I don't like something, either.  Like I said earlier, DAZ, to me, are getting to be like another Apple, and I don't do Apple for the same reason I don't do DAZ anymore.  So in a nutshell, I won't be patronising either of those companies, it's not Anti-DS or Anti-Genesis either.  It's basically the right to like what I want, and dislike what I want - so I'm afraid you'll have to live with that because it's not going to change.

@Hornet
Yeah, but Igonre buttons are for wimps!

If people need an ignore button then it's highly likely they shouldn't be using the internet anyway, it's really not the place for them.  In real life, if someone says something you don't agree with, it's not like you can stick a giant globe over them to ignore them and pretend they're not there, surely you just ignore them without the aid of the giant globe and move on, and that's all people need to do on a forum or the internet in general.

Take Male_M3dia's reply to me just now, I could have put him on "ignore" for thinking he was trolling and that I might be wrong about him.  But if I did that, it would mean I'm not man enough to answer posts for my attention, and that in turn would mean I'm a hypocrite, and one thing am I not, is a hypocrite.

Yeah, listen, well I don't care who likes Genesis, I don't!!!
A Genesis might have a Vickie hiding in it!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

Good point, Roxie, and I wonder, it might even be DAZ's way to sneak their Vickies past you and into Poser!

Yeah, that's it, that's what I'm saying!!!

Listen, they know how hard it is to get a Vickie past me, so they started to do it through the DSON importer!!!
It's two layers of protection for their Vickies!!!
First they hide a Vickie inside a Genesis, and then Genesis creeps it's way into Poser through the DSON importer!!!
Before you know it, another Vickie has got into the Poser viewport and another Poser person misses out!!!

I worked it all out, and I'm on to it!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

I'm so proud of you, Roxie.

@Male_M3dia
No I didn't, I dissed the way DAZ do things now, not the product, not DS, not Genesis (go back and read it properly this time).

I don't need to rationalise to anyone why I don't like something, either.  Like I said earlier, DAZ, to me, are getting to be like another Apple, and I don't do Apple for the same reason I don't do DAZ anymore.  So in a nutshell, I won't be patronising either of those companies, it's not Anti-DS or Anti-Genesis either.  It's basically the right to like what I want, and dislike what I want - so I'm afraid you'll have to live with that because it's not going to change.

Regardless, you still dissed when simply ending the sentence and ending the post would have done it. Content manager is part of DAZ studio, so it actually applies. You surely don't have to explain anything, but you ultimately did by continuing your posting farther than you should. By doing that you simply made your statement less than sincere that you wished it. Don't worry, people do it all the time, but thankfully not to each other faces... because most of us know to use restraint and stop before we contradict ourselves in those situations, but get a little freer online because of the anonymity. ;) I'm not saying it to be mean to you, just to make you aware of these types of posts where people convey the exact opposite of what they actually intended.

@Male_M3dia
Don't continue trolling, cause if I wanted to let rip with you, I guarantee you'll lose the battle of wits ;-)

I've just re-read the post (for the third time now), and there is nothing wrong with it at all, it was a perfectly civil, friendly reply to Shane.  You just sound like you're trolling, by trying to make it sound like something it wasn't.  I'm on a last warning here, so your attempts to troll me into getting a permanent ban will have to fail you (and it's clear to me why others have a problem with you now).

So, to return the sarcasm you just tried to feed me, most people will see nothing wrong in my reply to Shane (because there is nothing wrong with it), it's only those that have 'problems' that will see something in it that simply isn't there - you being one of them.

@Male_M3dia
Don't continue trolling, cause if I wanted to let rip with you, I guarantee you'll lose the battle of wits ;-)

I've just re-read the post (for the third time now), and there is nothing wrong with it at all, it was a perfectly civil, friendly reply to Shane.  You just sound like you're trolling, by trying to make it sound like something it wasn't.  I'm on a last warning here, so your attempts to troll me into getting a permanent ban will have to fail you (and it's clear to me why others have a problem with you now).

So, to return the sarcasm you just tried to feed me, most people will see nothing wrong in my reply to Shane (because there is nothing wrong with it), it's only those that have 'problems' that will see something in it that simply isn't there - you being one of them.

No worries at all. I posted my query over to some of friends that are college professors to make sure it wasn't just me. So I'm enjoying their input. We can get back to the thread now.

 STOP.

Everybody said what they had to say?
Then STOP.

This ping-pong game has no purpose at all.

@ Moderators 

Feel free to close this tread.
Thank you.

@Hornet
Yeah, but Igonre buttons are for wimps!

If people need an ignore button then it's highly likely they shouldn't be using the internet anyway, it's really not the place for them.  In real life, if someone says something you don't agree with, it's not like you can stick a giant globe over them to ignore them and pretend they're not there, surely you just ignore them without the aid of the giant globe and move on, and that's all people need to do on a forum or the internet in general.

I don't mind being a wimp, I just try and remember the advice "avoid loud and aggressive persons they are a vexation to the spirit".  Off of the internet I do not use a globe over my head if I find someone is spouting rubbish or is looking for a fight, I walk away quietly, so it is still ignoring someone.  I take very few things personally but I do tend to get annoyed if I see others abused or bullied, that's just the way I am.  Problem with the Internet is it has a tendency to bring out the worst in some people and they say things to others they would never say to someone face to face which makes bullying so much easier.
I take

I can say with all honesty that you won't find me dissing Genesis or DAZ Studio anywhere, not in any thread.  As far as I'm concerned, DS is something I used to like (until the Content Manager crap came along), but I don't like the way DAZ are doing things lately so I generally avoid their products now (both the figure and the program), even though I have no doubt they're still good products.

I just uninstall Content Manger from the Control Panel and Studio 4.6 still works fine for me.  I haven't yet installed 4.7, so I can't say if that affects it. Companies are not friends nor sports teams; if someone has something useful at a good price I'll buy it....

No worries, and thanks for the heads-up but I try to stay out of the Genensis arguments anyway, like I said, I just don't have any interest in it.

I can say with all honesty that you won't find me dissing Genesis or DAZ Studio anywhere, not in any thread.  As far as I'm concerned, DS is something I used to like (until the Content Manager crap came along), but I don't like the way DAZ are doing things lately so I generally avoid their products now (both the figure and the program), even though I have no doubt they're still good products.

LOL, what you did is called a backhanded compliment, which is basically a diss. Just saying "I can say with all honesty you won't find me dissing Genesis or DAZ Studio." would have been sufficient enough to keep you honest.. but then the next sentence, you actually diss the product and the company (Content manager, the way DAZ runs things, you avoid their figures). Then lastly throw a compliment to attempt to cover up the dissing. ;)

This is the typical comment that seeks to bother users and usually has accustomed us Male_M3dia

I ask , why do not I delete as usually done with my comments Ambientshame?

I repeat you are a discriminator which allows your friends surreptitiously attack other users and delete those that are not part of your circle, you are a pathetic Nazi, this forum is destined to die because of people like you and your "DAZ friends"  (which is what looking , not even hide it)

the 99% of the folders involved this guy end unhappily,
You asked the administrators of this site 4 times they throw me, I ask you ¿how many times you asked the thrown out to
@Male_M3dia ?

You are untenable

ps.you do not send me PM because your messages do not read, I delete them without reading them, I am big to hear your constant threats (and honestly I do not care)

you can beg to throw me out, maybe the 5th time you have success

@Hornet
Well, it's true people say and do stuff to others that they wouldn't do in a face to face situation, they have a name for them, something to do with keyboards I think, but I can't remember what it's called.

@Rod
Thanks, but last time I tried DS I discovered first of all, that my usual downloads had disappeared (without warning) and were replaced by something I couldn't click to install.  I then discovered the reason for it, DAZ forcing their "Content Manager" on to me (or rather, trying to).  I don't need or want a "content manager", and as the product is the same, DAZ should have no problem me logging into my account and downloading the usual ZIP files.

BTW, thanks for the civil reply, it's a pity Male_M3dia doesn't have the same grasp of things :-)

@Alderbaran
I'm also onto Male_M3dia's tactics now, and I just want you to know you're not alone in spotting it!
I'm amazed he's allowed to do it so often if this is why he gets all that flak :-D

No wonder!

What is this thread about again? I lost track.

Oh ffs...I go away for MONTHS and we're still at this. I think it's well past time for cat pictures.

Laurie

@Daffy
To be fair, it seemed to be simmering down until Male_M3dia started his (apparently typical) trolling earlier today.
As you've just returned, I wouldn't let this thread put you off.

What is this thread about again? I lost track.

Seems to be some sort of discourse on the State of Man.  Not encouraging so far, but maybe the good part is coming up......

P.S. Laurie, I've been wondering where you have been hiding!  :)

Real life is a real drag W&W ;). That and Rendo won't let me in under LaurieA anymore for whatever reason...lol. I'm stuck with the old moniker for now ;).

Now, back to....what was the topic again?

Laurie

@Alderbaran
I'm also onto Male_M3dia's tactics now, and I just want you to know you're not alone in spotting it!
I'm amazed he's allowed to do it so often if this is why he gets all that flak :-D

No wonder!

thanks pumeco but unfortunately this not going to changea couple of months @ Male_M3dia not you post on here and the result was made:
any folder or comments closed, all peace...

he back with their usual sophistries and returned chaos

There is a saying in my country that says:
if it barks, has 4 legs and wags its tail, we all know that we are talking,

but AS not suspended nor deleted their post, this will end in the near future with Male_M3dia ,  Ambientshame and ZevO embracing and celebrating the end of Renderosity

I found it and other friendlier places for Poser users so fortunately I come here less and less ,  and after the treatment I received from the discriminator Ambientshame I do not think I will ever buy anything more here

 Now you mention it, this is not the 'Hello Dolly" I seem to remember.

 Trying to get back on track though, has anyone used Dolly and, if so, how about some renders.

@Alderbaran
Drop me a message and tell me where the other place is, just in case Shane actually believes the crap Male_M3dia said, and I end up getting zapped!
There must be a reason Male_M3dia can still do this with the reputation he has, so I'm not holding out much hope for my own membership remaining.

 how are you all not tiered of fighting. I'll never know.

there's a ignore button now.

oh and the new rule is if your going to post a argumentative post ya half to post your original render to go with it .

render away :) 

RorrKonn for mod ;-)

 
pumeco quote RorrKonn for mod ;-)

LMAO the inmates would be running the asylum then :)

@pumeco

Ok check PM

**
**

**@**RorrKonn

We are running for asylum now...

You do not need to DAZ's DIM (Download Install Manager) to download your content from DAZ.  Go to Product Library from your account select a product and there will an option to download manually.  The DIM files are just zip files that can opened with just about any zip utility although Windows built-in zipper doesn't like zips with 0k files inside which some products do have.  When unzipping extract the files that are inside the "Content" folder inside the zip.  For anyone that may want to try DAZ Studio you do not need to use Smart Content that is handled by CMS (Content Management Service).

@RorrKonn
:-D

@Alderbaran
Got it, cheers ;-)

@Jetsmart
I did try that, and they wouldn't unzip in any way, but at least that sounds promising.

What about renaming them, though?
Is there a certain extension the unzippers would be happy with with these files?

 all these post n no .jpgs

oh ya nickel back nickelback no fixed address is out

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEW_MGMIgp8

rock on :) 

Personal attacks against moderators will also get you suspended, whether you choose to read your PMs or not is not my problem.