Bloody hell, is this national 'troll a pumeco' day or something?
What was the point of posting that in an old, effectively dead, thread?

If you're stupid enough to think that your right to privacy goes hand in hand with paranoia, then you have a very real problem, one I certaily can't help you with.  And if you don't have problems now, hang in there, because with an attitude like that, I'm guessing it won't be long before you have some.  If you think that using a closed corporate OS with built-in backdoors is a better idea than using an open, publicly audited OS, that's fine by me, just as long as you don't try to piss on others who know better :-D

• I'm not the one who thinks the right to privacy is paranoia, you are.
• I'm not the one getting data-mined, you are.
• I'm not the one with an OS that has a mind of it's own creators, you are.

If you're really that pissed off with your OS to post something like this, chances are you're frustrated because you're using an OS which, deep down, you know you really shouldn't be using.  The way to deal with that is remarkably simple; ditch it and use some common sense like millions of us are doing over the world right now - it's really not the dodgy, top-secret, underground world you seem to think it is.

You do realise that there are more GNU/Linux based OS' installed on devices and systems than any other OS out there, don't you?

If it makes you feel any better, come join the "paranoia" brigade - you'll be welcomed with open arms!
We've been expecting you, but what took you so long?

Bloody hell, is this national 'troll a pumeco' day or something?
What was the point of posting that in an old, effectively dead, thread?

If you're stupid enough to think that your right to privacy goes hand in hand with paranoia, then you have a very real problem, one I certaily can't help you with.  And if you don't have problems now, hang in there, because with an attitude like that, I'm guessing it won't be long before you have some.  If you think that using a closed corporate OS with built-in backdoors is a better idea than using an open, publicly audited OS, that's fine by me, just as long as you don't try to piss on others who know better :-D

• I'm not the one who thinks the right to privacy is paranoia, you are.
• I'm not the one getting data-mined, you are.
• I'm not the one with an OS that has a mind of it's own creators, you are.

If you're really that pissed off with your OS to post something like this, chances are you're frustrated because you're using an OS which, deep down, you know you really shouldn't be using.  The way to deal with that is remarkably simple; ditch it and use some common sense like millions of us are doing over the world right now - it's really not the dodgy, top-secret, underground world you seem to think it is.

You do realise that there are more GNU/Linux based OS' installed on devices and systems than any other OS out there, don't you?

If it makes you feel any better, come join the "paranoia" brigade - you'll be welcomed with open arms!
We've been expecting you, but what took you so long?

Cell phones account for Linux base saturation's. Over all, Android is number one, (at 40% if you consider all devices) but obviously that has more to due with cell phones and tablets than anything else.

Free (or close to it) cell phones running Android saw to that.

As far as the desktops go, Windows has about 57%, Apple 18%, and Linux has 20%

Cloud computing servers are primarily VMWare as the root operating system, which is neither Linux or Unix even thou it has similarities. These servers usually run many operating systems at the same time, after booting to VMWare.

HTTP servers are primarily Unix or Windows Server.

As far as Linux Server goes. Ubuntu is number one, then Redhat, SUSE (novell), etc. Debian is number 7 even thou others are based on it. But many boot to VMware as the primary op system.

Linux desktops are similar, just take Redhat off the list. Debian hits 7 on that list as well.

Notice how much VMWare comes up yet it is not considered an operating system because of it was, it would really throw off the numbers,,,,

• I'm not the one who thinks the right to privacy is paranoia, you are.
• I'm not the one getting data-mined, you are.
• I'm not the one with an OS that has a mind of it's own creators, you are.

No, I'm the one that isn't going to accept the invasions that may or may not,(Probably not) come, by not USING those things.  No info in this machine, and I keep it that way.  If they want to know which groups I visit, I hope they have some interest in something besides a computer. If I'm getting data mined, would you be so kind as to tell me what they're mining that I should be paranoid about?

Good luck to hackers getting into my cell phone, when it doesn't exist, and won't.  Most useless thing ever developed, bar none.

IF they want my browsing history, I hope they find RIngebuRC interesting, it's good humor.  RCGroups or RCUniverse,likewise.  Groups and everything I post is there anyhow.  Meant to be read, they're not closed forums. 

You're complaining about windows, excessively, but if you don't use it, why in hell do you care if someone else does?  Complaining about flash, then don't allow the updates, nothing says you have to. 

OH!  I know!  It's my computerized radio control systems they can hack into! Not.  First because I don't use them, second because it's a 4.2 ghz frequency hopping system, good luck when the frequency changes every tenth of a second, and their equipment doesn't know where it's going to jump next.  Only if you want to believe that can happen, but even with me having a thousand dollars riding on that signal being stable, I'm not going to worry about it.  IF I wipe out a plane, the better chances are I did what's known as a Dumb Thumbs, not because someone hacked into my system.  If you don't want the updates, then don't let them install.  No problem.

I get very bored with the technofreaks telling me I can't successfully fly a model with the system I've used for thirty years, and of the geeks saying ONLY one OS is worthy.  The freaks and the geeks are in the same boat, and they're still wrong.

Doric.

@David
And what's remarkable about that is that GNU/Linux, like you said, has 20%, that's an incredible level now and is indication enough to know that in the future, almost everyone will have switched to it.  It's inevitable because the makers of the commercial OS's are just milking the public for as much as they can while they still can.  The only thing they're interested in is your data, because the data about you is the most valuable asset to them.  If every one suddenly stopped buying their OS, they'd still be trying to throw them at you for free, because without it, your valuable data isn't handed to them on a plate.

Commercial OS's are effectively a data-mining server to them - you use - they gather.  Clouds, for example, are something that exist for a reason, it has nothing to do with your convenience and everything to do with them being able to monitor you and control what you can and cannot do.

@Doric
First off, I'm no geek, I'm a guy with common sense, and no one said Debian was your only option, either, it's just the option I chose and can highly recommend.  Buying a Raspberry Pi and installing the default Debian OS on it is a fantastic way for anyone to remove their fear of using a GNU/Linux system.  The thing costs peanuts and is likely the most important purchase they could make, they just don't realise it.

It's laughable that after all you just said in your post, that you have the nerve to call me "paranoid".  From what you just said, you're every bit as "paranoid" as I supposedly am.  If you're that paranopid then you might as well join us full-time and use a sensible OS rather than try unsuccessfully to hack a commercial one.  Nothing you do on a Commercial OS will stop it sharing data about you - the solution is simple - don't use a closed commercial OS.

If you're that clued-up on these things, then you should know, by default, to avoid the commercial OS's.  And as for the stuff they're data-mining about you, dear god, you really need to do some serious web-based research on the subject and avoid advertiser-funded sources of news.

There's a saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" - and Crapple, Farcebook Googlespook, Microdick and Twatter are as big as they get.  Bottom line is you either wise-up pronto, or it's your data that will be falling along with them when the (now classic) inevitable happens.  As is common knowlage nowadays, the price people will pay is going to be direcly linked to how much data they managed to milk from them, and the more they keep up the commercial OS usage, the more the milkage will be.

They can't do anything with what they don't have, it's that simple - honest it is.

You apparently have difficulty with the English language.  My cell, blackberry i-pad or whatever can't be hacked, because I first have no need for those things, and secondly because I don't have them.  If you want to waste your money on that crap, have at it, just don't invite me. 

The sites you mention, the so called "social networking", another thing I don't use, they're worse than useless.  ebay, another trash site, one for the real rip off artists.  Paypal, forget it.  Don't need it, just a useless scam. 

OH!  Page Plus crashed!  Do I care if someone knows I did something dumb and the program puked?  No.  DO I care if there was a crash and Microsoft asks me to send an error report?  Am I going to send it?  No, not for a ten year old program.  Do I care if flash crashes and sends a report to home?  No.  As far as I know, the "drastic, terrible, horrid" data mining by the big software firms, isn't happening. 

Don't you think, every time you take your car in for service or repair, that information, if you took it to an authorized dealer, goes back to the car company?  Sorry, it does, and with a lot more personal information than I have in this machine.  Do I care if someone knows what I posted on a group?  If I did, I'd be pretty stupid to have posted it.  How about the rash of breaking into corporate systems and stealing data there?  The better chance, by a huge margin, is those were either unix or linux based systems, not windows. 

If you're that worried someone will find out what you're doing, the better chance is you're doing something you're not proud of to begin with.  Worry on, just keep in mind that a lot of people don't like windows, but we still use it, without any problems.  YOur opinion counts for one, you, nobody else.  You're kinda outnumbered a little.

Doric

@pumeco 

Windows is not going anywhere, for a long time. Yes Linux has slowly gotten more percentage, but the gain has been no where near as fast as many people like yourself predicted. 

Way back when Windows Me was a complete disaster, many Linux buffs predicted market saturation would be over 50% on desktops in a few years, and it is not.

Same thing happened at Vista, and it didn't happen then either.

The increase that has been seen lately (about 10%) is from systems like the Chromebook. and get what you pay for.

Very few mainstream programs will run on it, which is understandable since it is still considered a work in progress. Even by Google.

Microsoft was slow to take action, but have since released similarly priced stripped down notebooks that will run most programs that customers already have. Once that happened the gap stopped changing in Google's favor and is actually starting to go back the other way again.. People are familiar with Windows, and have many programs that will run on it. Windows 8.1 has more reverse compatibility then 7 did, which adds even more software that will run to the mix.

One of the biggest hurdles Linux has, is the consumer. And the average person is not going to put up with Linux as soon as they can no longer do what they did with Windows.

Try to play a DirectX11 game in Linux... Yes you can get it to work, 5 years after the Linux people announced it would. Guess what, Windows 10 uses DirectX12... Your 5 years behind with Linux, again....

Try to install your favorite Windows program in Linux, if there isn't a Wine wrapper for it, it wont work. Yes there are free alternatives that run fine in Linux, but it will be set up completely differently and require someone to relearn a program to do what is second nature in Windows. Most people don't want to spend weeks learning a new software when they have one they already know.

The best chance to disrupt Windows reign, is not with the current Linux. It will have to have huge advantages over what everyone has now, and presently Linux does not.

@PrecisionXXX
Yup, clearly another troller who I'm guessing has an atom-sized brain.

Continue kidding yourself by all means, but quit kidding others, because the facts are out there, and it's time you discoverd them.  My grasp of the English language is fine, so I suggest you grasp it is well.  You're clearly one of those who mouth-off about stuff they only think they know about, but you're right, I am indeed hiding something, I'm hiding what is my business from those companies, because my business is my business, not Apple's, Google's, or Microsoft's business.  You don't even need to have been a member of Farcebook for them to track and data-mine you, they can do that even without you ever being member, so I'm afraid your your smug, lax attitude just jumped up and smacked you in the face - your beliefs literally just fell apart in an instant.

Until you actually get to the stage where you know what you're talking about, I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, or go and troll everyone else who uses a GNU/Linux system, see if you can make all of them look like criminals as well, because I've noticed that's all your posts are trying to do every time you have posted in this thread.  Carry on as long as you're prepared to face the consequences of doing so.

Now, get the f*ck out of here before your mouth gets you into trouble - go play with your Windows or whatever.
Privacy is a right you are born with, and hanging onto it is not a criminal activity.

And finally, I don't need to "worry on" - because I'm not the one using a commercial OS, as I've already pointed out to you (and it was in English).

@David
Sorry, crossposted again!

Makes no difference though, not really, GNU/Linux is gaining ground faster than it ever has, and one of the reasons for that is people are getting wise to whats really going on.  The more it happens, the more people are aware of it and the more people ditch Apple and Microsoft because of it.  It's not perfect, but seriously, I mention the Raspberry Pi because it's the easiest way to get into GNU/Linux for those that have never used it, or have used it years ago and couldn't understand it.

One of the biggest problems people used to have with GNU/Linux is the installation of software, they thought it was overcomplicated.  But with a Raspberry Pi, you get a computer and a ready installed Debian OS, and installing new software on it is as easy as searching the software section, selecting what you want from the result, and clicking install.  It's not a power computer, it's not meant to be, but the point is, it's a self-contained computer - completely seperate from your main computer.

For peanuts, you get a peice of hardware and a ready installed OS that is dead easy to use and is not commercial.  The bonus is that having a seperate device to hand, you soon get the hang of using it, so then installing the OS on your main system later on, is no problem.  A further benefit is that you have a safer system for browsing the web, and being totally fanless, it's silence means it can double-up as a cool little media player that'll run 1080p, no sweat.

My Pi is never switched off, it must have been running for at least two months now without a break since I last rebooted it.  The silence means that I use it to watch movies when I'm in bed and don't have to bother about falling asleep and being woken again by the sound of a noisy fan.

It's a great little device in more ways than one, and everyone should have one.

Now, get the f*ck out of here before your mouth gets you into trouble - go play with your Windows or whatever.
Privacy is a right you are born with, and hanging onto it is not a criminal activity.

SInce you choose to be the jerk and everyone else has to be wrong,  Suppose you spell out exactly what someone is mining out of my computer.  If you can't, then just shut the f*ck up.  IF THERE'S NOTHING IN IT, THERE'S NOTHING TO GET OUT OF IT.   Or are you magically connecting with my life by some  profane means?  If you think anyone can get anything out of my other two computers, good luck for them, because they don't see the line and never will, I work with those, this one is my "play box".  My own laptop upgraded from 8 to 8.1, all I can say is it went from unusable to useable.  I'm not going to complain about that, and I've denied it access to the net now.  BFHAD.

I'm not going go out and buy a blackberry because some one thinks I need one because his life would end without it.  Sorry, I live in the real world, not a fantasy created by a bunch of silicon chips. 

And again, exactly what are they mining out of my  computer when I don't put anything in it?  Answers, or admit you don't know, you're just parroting what some talking head told you.

Doric.

"Makes no difference though, not really, GNU/Linux is gaining ground faster than it ever has"

This was recently updated. This is average op system based on desktop http internet server requests. It isn't fantasy, it is fact.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Notice that Linux is now 1.25%. A year ago it was 1.38.

Linux is loosing ground again, not gaining. The spike in usage can be traced right to the Chromebook if you know where to look, and the spike is over.

The only thing gaining, is delusional and biased statements claiming that it is

The number don't lie. These are real time statistics that reflect what is actually being used the most to do internet requests across all desktop devices.

At the rate the Linux usage decline is going, it will soon be lower than it ever has.

As far as mobile and tablets go, you are incorrect again.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8&qpcustomd=1

IOS and JAVA far exceed any Linux based system.

Linux has lost ground there as well.....

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I substitute your reality for my own..........

"And again, exactly what are they mining out of my computer when I don't put anything in it?"

Nothing, absolutely nothing, but don't you see how you're contradicting yourself there?

What's the point in having a computer and the convenience of, say, being able to pay online in an instant, if you're scared to use it?  People should not have to be concerned about using a piece of hardware and software that they own, and no company should ever have control over other peoples systems, we should be able to trust what is in our own homes with absolutely no holdbacks at all - your home is your own private space - not a freaking playground for every corporate tosser who feels like it, to dip their corrupt noses in.

Unfortunately, we cannot trust commercial OS's so we absolutely need to take steps to prevent the snooping and data-mining that goes on.  You do that by starting off with a trusted and open OS.  I get you have a system you cannot get data-mined from, but if the reason for that is "because you don't use it"  - it's not really relevant to what we've all been discussing here.

There will come a time when there is no such thing as cash, and absolutely everything you need to do, will have to be done using your computer or whatever.  When that time comes (and it's not too far away from the looks of it) you are going to have to use that computer or some device, for the things you are currently not prepared to use it for - you won't have a choice in the future.

@David
Yeah but statistics are just 'waypoints' that should never influence what you want to do.

It doesn't matter to me whether one, one million, or one billion people use GNU/Linux.  I use it myself for the reasons I pointed out to PrecisionXXX.
In an ideal world, we wouldn't need to be concerned about this stuff, but unfortunately, it's not an ideal world.

I completely agree that statistics should not influence what any one person wants to do, use, etc.

But at the same time, the statistics show that Linux is loosing ground on all fronts.

It is a shame that it is, and having a zillion different versions of it is most likely what is killing it.

Now that it is loosing ground again, getting more apps developed for it will shrink at the same time rate.

Yes there will always be some people using it, but not in areas that other operating system prevail.

 I recently worked on a low - spec laptop which was supplied with Windows 8 and, due to the low spec, was almost unusable.  I did a general clean up and Windows update but the laptop was still a pain to use.  Then came the point where I had to upgrade to Windows 8.1.  After which is was very much better.  It will never be a gaming machine but with Windows 8.1 it was usable something it was not with Windows 8.

@David
Yup, but again, those statistics always change, it goes up and down, and like you said, it's usually in conjunction with other events.
I think the big event, the one that will have millions running to Debian like a heard o Elephants, is if Apple's customer data gets compromised.

To be honest, I'm only using the word - if - just to be civil about it, but as far as I'm concerned it's more a matter of when, than if.
Same with Google, same with Microsoft etc.

"And again, exactly what are they mining out of my computer when I don't put anything in it?"

Nothing, absolutely nothing, but don't you see how you're contradicting yourself there?

  You do that by starting off with a trusted and open OS.

Open and trusted, and well documented to every hacker on the planet.  As far as the on line sh*t you seem as to not be able to live without, what's wrong with checks, cash, and the telephone when I have to?  I don't email my kid, I drive to go see her.  I only use my credit card with a few places, but those places, I've dealt with for more than thirty years.  By phone.  If I have questions, I don't wait a day or two for answers, I ask them and get the answers right away.  How is on line superior?  Banking, I get a monthly paper statement, to be filed with the rest, I know where I am with that.  And no, I'm not contradicting myself, I'm saying there's nothing there to mine, I don't have to worry.  If I was worried someone would read what I post, I wouldn't post.  The answer isn't what might be mined, it's putting what anyone would want to mine in the computer that's the problem.  And the argument that money is going to be made obsolete, bullpucky and the technofreaks dream.  "Bring your computer so you can plug into the parking meter".  Paypal, ebay, "Wow!  Get it now!  Rare! Vintage! and only $199.95!"  Just don't look it up where you'll find it's still available for $19.95 NIB from any reputable dealer.  But that's your world, not mine. I'd rather go talk to the dealer.

If I order from one of my suppliers by phone on Monday, I'll be opening the box before one in the afternoon on Wednesday.  If I order on line, it will probably be Friday, which I suppose in your mind is an improvement as you didn't have to talk to a human.  If you're happy with linux, goody.  Just don't think everyone else is going to fall into lockstep with you because you like it.  The rest of us get along just wonderfully with what we have and don't complain because you use something else.  Your opinion counts for exactly one, yourself and nobody else.

Doric

Hey,

• I take it you missed all my posts where I said I never use SmartPhones, iPads, Tablets, or the tapped webcams and microphones built into devices?
• I take it you think I prefer online transactions to cash, are you serious?

Give it up, for god sake, you're preaching to the choir with that lot!
I'm the last person you need to say that sort of stuff to, I own none of that crap and never will :-D

I can't make it any clearer than I already did, my point is that while we can choose to do things the way we want to right now (most of the time), those days are coming to an end, and when they do, you will not be able to do things the way you are doing them now.  But you're right, what I said is my opinion, but equally so, the same is true for your own opinion.

Neither of our opinions will change the fact that there are Debian users out there who cringe at the very thought of a commercial OS, and there are Windows users who cringe at the thought of using Debian.  At the end of the day, the proof of what is the safer option to have in your life, will ultimately come when the first of the Commercial OS's user-data gets compromised.  So basically, the one that keeps it's data secured the longest, wins, fair enough?

But you see what I did there?

You'll never see the user-data from Debian getting compromised, it's impossible because Debain have no user-data to compromise.
So may the best OS win, let the battle commence!

God, I love my Debian :-D

Funny. I'm still using Windows 8. No "forced" upgrade for me. I've punched the upgrade nag at least six or seven times since this thread appeared, just waiting for the time when it wouldn't work. Hmmm. Maybe I'm just special. ;)

I agree with you, Doric. The best way to protect yourself from the bad guys is simply not to play their game. As for open source: heartbleed, shellshock, truecrypt. Meh.

Unless you live in a third-world country, you're not going to have all the options you have now, in the future.

And if you go around using the web unaware of how they're doing all this, Farcebook, for one, are tracking and data-mining you even if you've never visited their website.  This illusion you both have of thinking that "if you don't give them anything, they don't have anything" - is an absolute load of crap!  You don't have to give them anything, these corporate monsters are taking it from you without you knowing it, and without you giving them permission.

As for you punching the nag screen, you should not have to deal with that nag screen in the first place, isn't telling them once good enough for them?  You paid for your software and you should be left in peace to enjoy it, but instead, what they're forcing on you (even without the upgrade) - is automated harassment through a persistent nag screen that will not take no for an answer.

• Using Debian, I don't even need to know the meaning of a "Nag Screen" - because they don't exist.
• Using Debain, my user-data will never be compromised - because the OS doesn't gather it in the first place.

Figure it out.

Live in your fantasy worlds by all means, but if it were possible, I'd bet my life that using Debian is the safer option than any commercial OS, because it's impossible for me to loose that bet.  You can either know when your argument is defeated, and accept it like a mature adult, or you can go on kidding yourselves.  I realise you didn't address me in your post, but from now on I'm asking for no-one to address me in this conversation.  I'm sick of trying to explain things where the logic is so obvious that even a child would grasp it without any difficulty at all.

Trust a commercial OS and you'll pay the price further down the line.
Over and out.

As for you punching the nag screen, you should not have to deal with that nag screen in the first place, isn't telling them once good enough for them?  You paid for your software and you should be left in peace to enjoy it, but instead, what they're forcing on you (even without the upgrade) - is automated harassment through a persistent nag screen that will not take no for an answer.

Would someone like to inform pomelkopf that there is a process for disabling updates?  And as it's written by the people that wrote windows, it even works.  Pomelkopf, you need to change your news commentators to some that aren't in panic mode constantly, or start to realize that you can trust nothing you get from the net, or the mags.  Panic mode should be reserved for that second after your car drives off a cliff at full speed, otherwise,it's quite unbecoming anything.

Doric.

Panic is what you do if you rely on a "commercial" OS - it's not something Debian users are familiar with :-D
So like I said, you stick to your Windows, I'll stick to my Debian.

Constantly trolling to justify your stupidity, isn't going to change anything.  Getting all upset and shouting about it, calling people names like some 'frothing-at-the-mouth' loonatic, isn't going to stop me from using Debian and it's not going to stop you from using Windows.

If you're happy with Windows, use it, but what do you what me to do about it?
Exactly, so stop going on about it because I'm not interested in Windows, or your opinion :-D

Panic is what you do if you rely on a "commercial" OS - it's not something Debian users are familiar with :-D
So like I said, you stick to your Windows, I'll stick to my Debian.

Constantly trolling to justify your stupidity, isn't going to change anything.  Getting all upset and shouting about it, calling people names like some 'frothing-at-the-mouth' loonatic, isn't going to stop me from using Debian and it's not going to stop you from using Windows.

If you're happy with Windows, use it, but what do you what me to do about it?
Exactly, so stop going on about it because I'm not interested in Windows, or your opinion :-D

Fine.  Stick with debian then, the only one that cares is you.  However, I'm not interested, I don't care what system you use, but the lying BS about how bad WIndows and Mac are, unwarranted, untrue, unwelcome.  Oh, BTW, Don't care what you want to call me, as long as it's not late for supper.  I'm also, or have been known as:

Lennie the Lurker

President and Public Relations Officer

Whack-a-loon ink.

Makers and Purveyors of Fine Quality Loon Mallets.

Thanks for telling me ... yeah ... well I'm not telling you what I'm also know as ... so there :-D

Gotta love keyboard warriors, hows the Acne?
Oh, and don't forget to tidy your room.

@pumeco

You talk about Debian users not having to worry about anything, but you must not have been a Debian base user between 2006 and 2009.

If you were, chances a better than good that your system was compromised and data mined.

There was a code change on it early in 2006, that introduced a huge security issue.

I know, I know, lots of people look at the code and it is all good.

Accept that for 2+ years and multiple updates (in 3 thru 4), no one writing Debian updates noticed that every Debian install had a serious security issue in OpenSSL.

Anyone that knew it was there was in your system so fast it wasn't funny.

The fix for it was drastic, and far more than just that had to be changed.

So much was changed, that there could be another issue in it that no one has discovered on the side that fixes it.

Did I mention that it still is not fixed???? Oh, just did...........

You always mention how safe and secure Debian is and it has had severe security issues in the past, and still has some.

To err is human, to really foul up requires a computer..... The errors continue to plague OpenSSL....

Here is the current list of OpenSSL issues in the very OS you are running. Some are fixed, others are not. Which means you are not as secure as you think you are.

https://packages.qa.debian.org/o/openssl.html

and

https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/source-package/openssl

And this is just the issues with OpenSSL....

Makes no difference to me, it's still way better than using a commercial OS

No OS available is free from flaws, and Debian, just like the commercial OS's, has a list of issues to fix.  The difference is, those issues aren't hidden from you, the code is publicly auditable, and for that reason alone you know it's not designed to screw you.  If an intentionally malicious feature ever got into Debian, that would ruin it's reputation, and as Debian has a reputation for security, that's good enough for me.

I don't think my system is inpenetrable, that would be bumb and unrealistic.  All I expect is to be able to use my computer, secure in the knowledge that I'm not using something that was designed to be a server to ship-off my data to a bunch of data-mining corporations.  Our user-data has nothing to do with those corporations, it's absolutely none of their business, so I'm not going to hand mine to them on a plate through using those custom designed data-mining servers they try to pass-off as an OS.

You're every bit as welcome to use one as Doric or anyone else is, and that's your choice, but I won't be.

For those who like to pay money to corporations so that they can be data-mined - there's MacOS, iOS, and Windows.
For everone else - there's Debian.

f you're happy with Windows, use it, but what do you what me to do about it?
Exactly, so stop going on about it because I'm not interested in Windows, or your opinion :-D

I can't speak for Doric, but for myself, what I want you to do is stop calling everyone who disagrees with you stupid (among other things), stop preaching as though you personally know the word of the internet gods, and stop the constant software bashing. 

--

The reason I permit the upgrade nag to appear is that I intend, at some point, to upgrade, and I am not in the least bit perturbed by having to click a single button once a week. If that kind of thing really gets your blood pressure up, then congratulations, you must have an extremely good life. In my life, such as it is, a software nag is a tiny, tiny inconvenience of such little consequence that I barely notice it. I find that there are far more important things in my life to obsess over than what OS other people are using.

You're every bit as welcome to use one as Doric or anyone else is, and that's your choice, but I won't be.

For those who like to pay money to corporations so that they can be data-mined - there's MacOS, iOS, and Windows.
For everone else - there's Debian.

Did you ask about that on alt,alien.vampires,flonk.flonk.flonk?  Or maybe you'd like to go to alt.hackers.malicious. I'm  sure they'd explain where the weaknesses in debian are, and maybe even send you a few samples.  Or, maybe I'll go to alt.fan.karl-malden-nose and invite them to come and play with you.  They'd have a lot of fun.  Except those groups are extinct, but the people aren't.  I'm quite sure alt.usenet.kooks would have really had a ball with you too.  You might even have won the KOTY award. 

Do us a favor and hurry up shutting up about a system we don't care about. 

And I'll guess you weren't even out of high school, if you were even in school, when I was Lennie.  But, those groups were programmers, not hackers, and knew the ins and outs of all of the operating systems as a matter of making a living, and irritating people.

If debian is so great, why aren't the professional 3d programs ported for it?  Hmm?

Doric.

BTW, most people know, the "I" in Doric is silent. Did you?

Pumykins, you want no one to address you, but you want to be able to keep making posts. LOL. The internet doesn't work like that. If you post in a public place, then you're inviting a response. The only way to NOT get a response is to NOT POST.

I asked ages ago what exactly it was that Microsoft was mining from me, and you still haven't told me. What are they getting? Specifically. More to the point, what are they getting that every single organization that has ever accepted my credit card has not been getting (and been getting now for decades)? 

If you're concerned about the NSA, you had better believe that open source OSs are completely compromised. You don't think the NSA has programmers adding code to it when they are freely able to? Sure, it's open, so people would be able to vet that code, wouldn't they? Yeah. Exactly as they were able to vet the code that brought us shellshock and that had compromised servers since 1989. That's a very long time for every server using those packages to be vulnerable to intrusion from a code error that the programmer wasn't even trying to hide. Were you even alive in 1989?

Whoever has been telling you that open source is so secure is either quite gullible themselves, hasn't heard of Edward Snowden, or is working for the government. Or is GCHQ issuing you a paycheck? You can be honest with us. We won't judge you for it. :D

@Doric
I think quite a few of us worked out that the "i" in your name is silent, but now that you've actually admitted it point blank, it'll be interesting to see exactly how much longer you are permitted to troll a member who has already asked you to stop addressing him.

@Morikins :-D
You're starting to behave irrationally, because evey question you just asked has been answered more than once already.  I'm not interested in defeating the 'Big N' - that would be quite a feat.  All I'm interested in is keeping the corporate data-mining tossers out of my business, because my user-data is none of their business!  I'm sorry but if you can't grasp that, I can't help you, and if you miss it yet again even this time, then it just means that you're choosing to miss it.  I couldn't care less about "Doric", or how many big names he manages to spell.  I do care about how you come across though, I've never seen you as a troll so far, so please, keep it that way because seriously, I can't make my position on the whole data-mining thing any clearer than I have:

I do not trust Apple, Microsoft, or any other commercal OS - but I do trust Debian.

As for what is getting data-mined from you, dear god, that's something you need to research.  With a bit of luck you'll be waving goodbye to Windows pretty quick and without any resevations whatsoever.  But if not, like I said, that's fine as well because at the end of the day, it's not me that'll be using it's, it's you.

Regards you not minding being nagged by a product you paid for, I'm happy for you, but personally, it's not something I tolerate.  If I were in the position I didn't want their "enhancements" while running a Windows system, I'd be pretty pissed-off about a constant nag screen.

If my non-existent user-data manages to get data-mined from my use of Debian, it'll be a miracle, and I'll be the first to take my wooly hat off to you and admit defeat if that happens, because despite your opinion of me, I'm really quite happy to be defeated and don't mind admitting when I got something wrong - not in the least.  So if Debian turns out to be a mistake, believe me, I'll happily accept it.

Only time will tell, but like I keep trying to get you to realise, my OS user-data can't get compromised because my OS doesn't collect it in the first place.

@Doric
I've been thinking about what Moriador said, and as you're obviously so well clued-up on all this stuff, ok then, I have a question for you.

Rather than go on the abusive because I recommend Debian, what 'OS' do you recommend to onlookers?

See if you can answer that without spouting your panic-ridden bullshit about you not even connecting your computer to the web.  People won't give-up using their computer on the web, that's obvious.  If you have such a low opinion of Debian, what other option is there, what option would you choose assuming a person actually needs to make use of their computer on the net?

You clearly like to badmouth me for recommending Debian, but so far you have offered no alternative to it whatsoever.  You're being asked a civil question in a civil manner, so see if you can reply to it in a civil manner - what would you use?

The one making the claim is the one who is responsible for doing the research. If you can't tell me what data MS is supposed to be mining from me, then that tells me that you don't know. It's not up to me to verify YOUR claims. That's up to you. Or, of course, you can just say "do the research". And I can say that your mind is being controlled by small plush unicorns, and if you did the research, you'd know that. :P

Like I said, it's not a constant nag screen. It's one mouse click a week. If that's constant to you, then I guess you don't use a computer very much. LOL.

I don't know about Doric, but most of us aren't interested in recommending OSs to other people. Usually by the time they are posting on the net, they've made up their minds already. We'd only give opinions if someone asked... or in this case, if someone started giving unsolicited advice. From what I can see, no one said that Debian is a bad OS. What has been said is that your claims that Windows is as evil as you say are quite dubious, and your insulting people who use any other OS besides Debian is disrespectful and -- unfortunately -- a far more memorable indicator of your character than just about anything else you've done or said.

Most people aren't interested in recommending other OS's to people, because most of them haven't a clue why other people do it.  You reply is yet another indication that you have no idea of why that is - and that's not my fault.  If you honestly don't know what's going on with those OS's, then there is something wrong somewhere along the line.  And I'm not the only person on these forums who knows what goes on, either.  Shane is clealy aware of some of it, as is FightingWolf as was proven by a post of his the other day, here's something for the Apple users to think about:

"The same thing that you are complaining about is done with Mac OS.  Your Mac OS tracks your behavior as well and collect more data than adobe flash. Washington Post Article: Apples Mac Computers Can Automatically Collect Your Location Information I

"Once Yosemite is installed, users searching for files – even on their own hard drives -- have their locations, unique identifying codes and search terms automatically sent to the company, keystroke by keystroke. The same is true for devices using Apple’s latest mobile operating system, iOS 8"

See even Apple does what adobe does and more."

You still want to try and convince people that using a commercial OS is a better bet than my recommendation?
Give it up, Moriador, this stuff is beyond monstrous!

I could give you a whole bunch of proven data-mining, but again, I'm not going to.  The reason I'm not going to give you anything is because it get's people curious, and when they get curious they are going to seek out that information because no one is handing it to them.  And while they're seeking out that information, they learn a whole lot more than any post I could make on the subject.  This stuff is not secret anymore, there is literally tons of this stuff out there, all proven, all verified

And I've told you before, I like Windows, I've used it ever since I had a PC - it was always my choice of OS - and it's not like I enjoy the inconvenience of having to start again with another OS.  But I will not tolerate the sort of thing that goes on, it is monstrous, and I post what I post because even the very thought of people using these monstrous systems without knowing what's going on, feels inhuman.  It's feels like letting someone do a skydive if you know they haven't fastened their harness properly.

The only questionable characters are those who defend this bullshit - not those who fight against it - troll.

I don't use a Mac. So, I'm still curious. Not because I can't do the research, but I want to know if you can. It would seem that you can't. Or won't. Because you won't like what you find -- which is that MS has one of the strictest privacy policies of all software vendors, and the most to lose from a big scandal.

So. MS knows the IP of this machine, which gives geolocation information. Something every single website I've ever visited knows (or can know). MS knows what OS I use. So does every website I've ever visited. MS knows the validation serial number of the OS. So what? They don't know who bought the machine I'm using. MS knows a few more odd pieces of technical data about my machine, not unlike what's in my signature in these forums. What else? Not much. And absolutely nothing that points towards MY IDENTITY. Hell, Renderosity knows far more about me than Microsoft. I quake in fear of the Rendo marketplace gods!

Google might know a lot more about me -- if it actually knew who I was. What it knows is that a whole bunch of activity comes from a particular IP in my city. Wow. Good for Google. Whatta they gonna do with all that data? Well, they might change the UI of their search engine. They might improve their algorithms. Hell, they might even decide that nothing on YouTube is worth keeping except audio books of Herodotus and videos of kittens falling asleep.

What exactly is anyone going to do with all that data?

You're not afraid of GCHQ, but you are afraid of Microsoft. Sorry. Doesn't compute. 

F*cking hell :-D

Next you're going to tell me that MS has keyloggers and are logging everything I type and view and hear on my machine, not to mention the mic is always on, right? And they employ an army of 100 million people who spend 18 hours a day without breaks, watching all this activity, furiously taking notes like Stasi spies, and compiling a huge dossier. And no doubt aliens brought to earth by Hilary Clinton piloted the planes that hit the World Trade Center on 911. Oh, and Steven Colbert is a lizard man.

Pumykins, you should read some serious sci-fi. In less than twenty years, we'll have quantum computing, and shortly after that, a self-aware, self-propagating AI with such a high level of intelligence that no human on earth can even imagine its full capabilities. It won't be long before that machine will know everything, down to every configuration of adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine in every molecule of DNA for every living thing on earth. The Singularity. It's a thing.

And you're worried about Microsoft knowing what kind of hardware you use? :D 

@Moriakins
As it's you, and I have a certain fondness for you (although god knows why after the way you treat me), I typed "Windows keylogger" and found this:

It took me like one second to find it :
Microsoft admits Windows 10 preview has a keylogger

I laugh at your posts, Pumykins. And I do mock you, true. But it's not malicious. :D

WIndows 10 preview has a keylogger. Okay. So what? 1. They state it explicitly. 2. Logging behavior in developmental or beta software is hardly new or surprising.  3. It's no indication that there will be such a logger in the actual public release, and given the public response to such things, it seems extremely unlikely. 4. If there is, I won't use it. 5. There isn't one in the version of Windows I'm using.

Edit 6. Apparently, MS even tells people using the preview not to install it on production machines -- that is machine that in actual use for anything but testing.

"I laugh at your posts, Pumykins. And I do mock you, true. But it's not malicious. :D"
No worries Moriador, and to be honest I'm not in the mood to battle any more, my head will explode if I keep it up.

@Doric
I've been thinking about what Moriador said, and as you're obviously so well clued-up on all this stuff, ok then, I have a question for you.

Rather than go on the abusive because I recommend Debian, what 'OS' do you recommend to onlookers?

See if you can answer that without spouting your panic-ridden bullshit about you not even connecting your computer to the web.  People won't give-up using their computer on the web, that's obvious.  If you have such a low opinion of Debian, what other option is there, what option would you choose assuming a person actually needs to make use of their computer on the net?

You clearly like to badmouth me for recommending Debian, but so far you have offered no alternative to it whatsoever.  You're being asked a civil question in a civil manner, so see if you can reply to it in a civil manner - what would you use?

Which ever one they would choose.  Not my decision to make, and damned sure isn't yours. It's not that you prefer your brand of snake oil, it's that you're pushing it and dissing everything else.  Don't forget, you're in the less than 20%.  Hardly mainstream.  BTW, I have three computers operational at the moment, and this one is the only one allowed to know there IS an internet.  What's the problem?
Doric.

For me, 20% is pretty mainstream, it's almost a quarter of the market, I think that's very impressive considering what they're up against!

Regards me pushing Debian and dissing everything else, you're taking things too literally.  Yeah, I do push Debian in contrast to any commercial OS, but I don't push Debian as being the only alternative to a commercial OS.  I've tried all sorts of distros.  Trisquel is another one I would have no problem using (if only I could).  I can't use Trisquel though, because the hardware on my main box isn't supported due to the lack of open drivers for it.

If I were to use it solely as a web machine, no problem, but I aim to move completely to the new OS, so the drivers have to be good otherwise the graphics performance stinks.  What's good about Debian is it supports a massive amount of platforms and a massive amount of drivers, so much so, there's even a dedicated version of Debian for the Raspberry Pi (Raspbian) - which is the official OS of that device.

For the price of a few Blu-rays, a complete noob can pick up a brand new Raspberry Pi and a ready installed Debian OS.  People can play with GNU/Linux easier then it's ever been possible to do, and all on a dedicated device seperate from their man box.  This is why I push such things, it's not just that it's default OS is Rapbian (Debian), it's that it takes away the scare factor a lot of people have about "Using Linux".

If I were to use it solely as a web machine, no problem, but I aim to move completely to the new OS, so the drivers have to be good otherwise the graphics performance stinks.  What's good about Debian is it supports a massive amount of platforms and a massive amount of drivers, so much so, there's even a dedicated version of Debian for the Raspberry Pi (Raspbian) - which is the official OS of that device.

For the price of a few Blu-rays, a complete noob can pick up a brand new Raspberry Pi and a ready installed Debian OS.  People can play with GNU/Linux easier then it's ever been possible to do, and all on a dedicated device seperate from their man box.  This is why I push such things, it's not just that it's default OS is Rapbian (Debian), it's that it takes away the scare factor a lot of people have about "Using Linux".

Absolutely duckiy, wonderful,outstanding.  Now the question you didn't ask, "Do I give a sh**?"  That I can answer, no.  Not now, not next year, not ten years from now. I have no idea what BluRay is, or if there even is such a thing, but guess it's either some kind of mindless entertainment device or maybe your music videos that you pay for, watch once, and pay again.  Raspberry Pi?  Better beat what my wife used to make or it's not worth a damn.  "Official OS"?  declared so by who?  And again, I don't care.  What you fail to see is I look at all of that crap as playbaby things, things I don't need.  I'm not one like you, if you were disconnected, you wouldn't exist.  I'm connected if I want to be, and disconnected if I don't.  OH!  Someone might steal my home phone number!  See if you can get me to answer it, that tells you how much good it will do you.  Or if I do answer it, try to get me not to hang up.  The things you seem to hold supreme, I discard as useless distraction.  I don't live in a silicon generated fantasy, I live in reality.  Nothing you mentioned existed 30 years ago, and we were better off for it not existing.
Doric.

"Nothing you mentioned existed 30 years ago, and we were better off for it not existing."
Finally, something we agree on.

pumeco...

You keep mentioning 20%, but the numbers are far lower than that depending on how you look at it..

I looked back thru the records and Linux usage has never hit 20%, ever......... Not even close, no matter how you look at it......

They are far lower than I previously thought as well. Before you freak out, note usage....

For Linux desktops, http requests are 1.25% and it has dropped every month for over a year.. ...

Desktops make 90 to 95% of all http requests every month. 90-95 % Includes all operating systems, and just 1.25% of those are Linux based.

For mobile, Linux varies around 12% if you include all possible variants that are not MS/Apple/Palm, etc....

Unfortunately some of the ones that the Linux stats include, are not actually Linux at all... That is where the differences come in, on certain statistics...

Include just Linux in the mobile http request equation, currently it is less than 1% ............... 

What does all this mean? It means that a lot of people have Linux based stuff and don't use it. The 20% number is based on shipped units, not usage....

Don't get me wrong, Linux has its place, but bullshit numbers are just bullshit numbers. If you don't use something, how could you count it as using it?

So, if you crunch the mobile numbers, 1 out of 20 people that own a Linux based mobile anything use it on the internet. 19 out of 20 just use it as a phone, since that is what it is...........

Total internet usage for http requests with Linux is about 1%

Picking up your Linux Phone and calling your mother doesn't really make you a Linux user, just a good kid that calls his mom.

When I was younger and called my mom on a land line, did that make me a switchboard user?

For me, 20% is pretty mainstream, it's almost a quarter of the market, I think that's very impressive considering what they're up against!

Regards me pushing Debian and dissing everything else, you're taking things too literally.  Yeah, I do push Debian in contrast to any commercial OS, but I don't push Debian as being the only alternative to a commercial OS.  I've tried all sorts of distros.  Trisquel is another one I would have no problem using (if only I could).  I can't use Trisquel though, because the hardware on my main box isn't supported due to the lack of open drivers for it.

If I were to use it solely as a web machine, no problem, but I aim to move completely to the new OS, so the drivers have to be good otherwise the graphics performance stinks.  What's good about Debian is it supports a massive amount of platforms and a massive amount of drivers, so much so, there's even a dedicated version of Debian for the Raspberry Pi (Raspbian) - which is the official OS of that device.

For the price of a few Blu-rays, a complete noob can pick up a brand new Raspberry Pi and a ready installed Debian OS.  People can play with GNU/Linux easier then it's ever been possible to do, and all on a dedicated device seperate from their man box.  This is why I push such things, it's not just that it's default OS is Rapbian (Debian), it's that it takes away the scare factor a lot of people have about "Using Linux".

See, Pumy, this kind of post is actually far more persuasive (and it's not in the least bit offensive). I think you do best when you point out the specific reasons TO USE this OS rather than the reasons NOT TO USE our current one. People may disagree with your reasons, but not your reasoning. You're a good salesman (if you will excuse the term -- I don't mean it literally) when you stay positive. :)