Great to see you ODF. I regret that I wasn't frequenting this forum when you were active here. I really enjoyed reading over those old threads though. Thanks.

I quite liked Antonia.  (And I still do.)  However, I found her face very difficult to morph, and I suspect others did, too, because the characters made for her seemed to all sort of look the same.

I found her very easy to morph, possibly because I made her. An example of a quite different looking face morph I made is here (warning: nudity). Cage has also made some. I suspect the problem is that Antonia was designed to be morphed using quite different morphing techniques than what's common in the community.

Man, I gave an honest look at Scarlet from my point of few and was called an absolute dick for it, because I dared mention to DS or Genesis. The blasphemous words.

Show me what I said in my first two posts to deserve a lashing from Glitteratti.

I was labeled a DS user like that is something you find on the bottom of your shoe after walking across a field. 

You stepped into to add supportive abuse to someone who was all out attacking because someone dared to mention Genesis.

Here's some other things I have been called during this thread:

Insecure, Petty, Mean, Terrified of competition, Absolute Dick, Superior, Product basher, Lacking confidence in own products, Blow me!, Pathetic Dork, Angry little man, Sexually frustrated, Intently looking at dolls genitals, administer my root node, Stuff yerself, Clown, you don't contribute shit, pompous...

It's hard to see you guys as the victims...

Your right, this thread would have been closed long ago almost anywhere else but here. The mods here seem to be rather toothless, standing by as people tear strips from each other.

I will never understand why there is standing belief that people who use DS have no right to enter this forum. How can you just segment out a group of people for exclusion because they have a preference. Nor why Poser users feel that DS is the enemy. Have a look in the DS forums even here. You never see anyone saying you're just a Poser user how dare you step foot here on our sacred ground, begone with your trivial beliefs and questions. This is DS territory... It's funny how Poser users have had an App snobbery outlook for years and years, but now they are quick to draw the same conclusion of DS users. DS for a very long time had been seen as Poser's inferior little brother. Now that DS has grown up. I see of lot of Poser users with a sneer on their face that are happy to deride anything DAZ simply because of the state of Poser. 

If a DS content creator pops his head in here he should expect a lynch mob not to be inspired and embraced. Yet I always see people crying that Poser doesn't receive enough support from content creators anymore. Poser users have held themselves up as somehow an elitist top end of the sector and now that very attitude is adding to their woes, as they won't allow DS users to be seen on even footing with them. Always dismissing them outright, generally with just personal attacks.

My bias isn't clouding anything the reason I'm bringing "Killer" into the discussion is the title of the thread "Is it time to jump the V4 ship?" implies that Scarlet is being viewed as a V4 Successor. Sixus1's own marketing shares similar undertones. 

As far as me insulting anyone, have a look at my avatar I never declared to be an angel.

Amen........

Alright DMD, goodluck man. Have fun with it.

You have done nothing but insult me, since you joined the conversation today. Now your taking the high ground? What a laugh.

One comment out of 25 or so on topic hardly makes you a victim of derailment or trolling.

This place is a lost cause...

Pic attached of a Rendo forum community discussion of the next latest and great DS or Genesis Killer.

Great picture but I really can't believe this is a Rendo forum discussion, there is just too much warmth being displayed. For the record I am not someone objects to Daz users contributing to the forum or the discussion of Genesis, mainly as I am interested in 3D art in general.  I do however get fed up of the constant arguments, from both sides and I tend to get annoyed on the soothsayers predicting the doom of Poser.   Not aiming at anyone personally here as most the people who upset me are on my ignore list.

I found her very easy to morph, possibly because I made her. An example of a quite different looking face morph I made is here (warning: nudity). Cage has also made some. I suspect the problem is that Antonia was designed to be morphed using quite different morphing techniques than what's common in the community.

Could be.  However, I don't think Antonia looks very different in those two morphs.  Still has a long, thin face, with the same nose, lips, and distinctive cheekbones, jawline, and chin. I like to be able to morph figures to look like actual people.  I found that impossible to do with Antonia.

I quite liked Antonia.  (And I still do.)  However, I found her face very difficult to morph, and I suspect others did, too, because the characters made for her seemed to all sort of look the same.

I found her very easy to morph, possibly because I made her. An example of a quite different looking face morph I made is here (warning: nudity). Cage has also made some. I suspect the problem is that Antonia was designed to be morphed using quite different morphing techniques than what's common in the community.

I have her in my runtime along with many other figures. That is why I see Scarlet as a welcome addition and the efforts of the artists as a welcome contribution. Although, I have never subscribed to the idea that there needed to be only one figure that did it all. Variety is the spice of  life.

I have her in my runtime along with many other figures. That is why I see Scarlet as a welcome addition and the efforts of the artists as a welcome contribution. Although, I have never subscribed to the idea that there needed to be only one figure that did it all. Variety is the spice of  life.

I think that is more true now than ever.  In the old days, a figure was a big investment.  You'd have to buy clothes, textures, hair, etc. for it. And it was all wicked expensive.
With the material room and fitting room and dynamics, it's possible to use figures that don't have a lot of support.  Not to mention a lot items are pretty cheap these days, so the stuff you do buy isn't the huge investment it used to be. 

Ok, this thread is now just getting fucking ridiculous - from both sides.

I don't have Scarlet, so I can't comment on her mesh. I model, but I am in no way a professional. I'm much better at texturing. However, I do agree with quite a few people in this thread and those that know I use Poser almost exclusively would be VERY surprised who I actually agree with. Aside from that, this thread has gone so damn far off topic and off the rails that those of you - especially vendors - should really be ashamed. I would advise vendors to stay completely out of the forums, only because it will farther your business if people don't see you as combative, NOT because I disagree with anything that's been said.

To DeathMetalMask: shvrdavid has contributed to the development of Antonia, V4WM, Poser Outfitter among other projects. He's very good at what he does. Where is it written that in order to be good at what you do you have to be a vendor? Actually, the Poser product business was begun by people like him who freely gave their talents to the community. Renderosity was born. The rest is soiled history.

If we could now all quit this childish shit and get back to the thread at hand, that would be great. This kinda garbage is the reason I hardly post anymore.

Oh, and howdy odf, long time no "see" ;).

Laurie

I know that now Laurie, and apologized for my mistake. I don't think you have to be a commercial artist to be good at art, whatever that may be, BTW.

Especially vendors - should really be ashamed. I would advise vendors to stay completely out of the forums, only because it will farther your business if people don't see you as combative.

As a vendor, being in forums does not really affect sales. And FYI we are customers too. Also, would you not want opinions from people who make content for a living that can say what is required? Or would you just prefer comments full of fairy dust and praise? Past experience tells me that has never been beneficial to either side of the spectrum. Sometimes honesty is good and lets people know if they need to up their game. More useful than typing "oh that looks great, can't wait to add it in my cart" meanwhile they have no intentions of buying. All to be nice I suppose? That doesn't help anybody. Maybe it helps the spirit of a peaceful and happy community, but has no bearing on the business side of things, and does not help the vendor.

One more thing:

I'm a Poser user. I've been using the software since at least 1998. I also use Wings and Hexagon to model. That doesn't mean that I hate people that use Blender or Silo or whatever they choose to use. Let me tell you all something - in October my husband was diagnosed with bladder cancer. If  you think that isn't a jolt to reality, well, just let me tell you it is. It also made this Poser vs Daz thing so inconsequential to my life it's fucking laughable. Will all of you listen to yourselves? This software - all this crap - it ain't Hitler vs The World. It's bloody software!! And like all software, and all things, it comes and goes and we move on. In the scheme of a life, it's nothing but a small diversion. STOP making it into something more important. Please. Just stop.

Laurie

Hobbies are important to some people. Some of them build their lives around it. So is it wrong to be passionate about what you enjoy?

Especially vendors - should really be ashamed. I would advise vendors to stay completely out of the forums, only because it will farther your business if people don't see you as combative.

As a vendor, being in forums does not really affect sales. And FYI we are customers too. Also, would you not want opinions from people who make content for a living that can say what is required? Or would you just prefer comments full of fairy dust and praise? Past experience tells me that has never been beneficial to either side of the spectrum. Sometimes honesty is good and lets people know if they need to up their game. More useful than typing "oh that looks great, can't wait to add it in my cart" meanwhile they have no intentions of buying. All to be nice I suppose? That doesn't help anybody. Maybe it helps the spirit of a peaceful and happy community, but has no bearing on the business side of things, and does not help the vendor.

Zev0, if you've seen some of what I "thought" of other Poser figures that were supposed to topple V4, then ya know I don't want fairy dust. I'm very harsh in my criticism when I see something I don't like, especially if it's a for-sale item. I tend to give free things a pass because, well, they're free and people just don't tend to spend the time and, well, they're free. LOL. No, I can't make a human figure, that doesn't mean that I don't know what's wrong when I see it ;). We're ALL very familiar with the human form. I wish people would remember that.
Laurie

So then why crap on others for feeling the same way about Scarlet? And voicing their opinions?

Actually it just might effect sales if an individual doesn't care for an artist's personality. While I personally feel that an artist should be judged on the quality of their work rather than the quality of their character it's just an unfortunate fact that public perception of an individual is a factor. It's a good thing people tend to be forgetful.

See, now I am a person that will buy content because I need it. I don't have to like the vendor, but if that product is beneficial for my needs, then I will buy it. Isn't that why we buy content? To help our needs? Or do we buy content to cater for a vendors feelings?

Hobbies are important to some people. Some of them build their lives around it. So is it wrong to be passionate about what you enjoy?

It's not wrong, but people don't have to get so evil about something that's way more unimportant than their family, their health, their lives. It's not like I don't enjoy it as well...I've always got my head in some software or other, including DS at times. It's all the same to me. Just TOOLS. Not a life-threatening situation. Laurie

So then why crap on others for feeling the same way about Scarlet? And voicing their opinions?

Wow, I didn't know that I was crapping on others. Was I? I didn't intend it. In fact, I agreed with you, JoePublic, shvrdavid and Razor.... See how easy it is to take something the wrong way on the internet? I'm just really very tired of the Daz vs Poser thing. What does it matter what people use? Why? I have friends that use both. I don't CARE what they use. In one way, the DS forum is better than we are at this. You don't see these pissing contests over there. Know why? They don't CARE. And neither should we ffs. It's been years. We need to fucking get over it already. It's a useless argument.

Laurie

Totally agree on the pointlessness of the software battles thing going on here, Laurie. 

Thing is Laurie, some of us are just sick and tired of false promises been made. I started out in Poser, and my hopes have been dashed so many times in the past with regards to new figures. So yes, I will voice my frustration. Forget for a second that I am a vendor for the evil empire. Luckily I have found a replacement, but their are others here who haven't and deserve better. I am a suer of both apps, I invested money in both, I do not want to see part of my investment just fall away.

Oh, I don't like false promises either. And I'd voice it if I felt I'd been duped in some way. But you all have voiced - many times, and I agree with ya. But there comes a point when it's just beating a dead horse and further argument proves no purpose other than to breed more bad feelings. I know ya love DS and I'm totally cool with that. It's one of the reasons I've stuck with Poser for so long. I like what I can do with it. But I'm also frustrated by what I can't do with it. So I started to dabble in DS. Do I feel bad for doing it? NOPE. I paid SM good money for their software. I still use it. I haven't done anything to anybody. I haven't screwed anybody. In the end, it shouldn't make a difference ;). Use what works for you whether it's Poser, DS, Blender, Mojo..whatever. I'm just tired of the poo-slinging, every time I come into this forum. So I've turned to lurking instead. I go for weeks now without even lurking, and I always had this site open before. I'd rather have less strife in my life rather than more. Laurie

Anyways. I will wait to see the new content that comes out. For now, we have covered all bases of this release I think..

Still not sure why people are so anti V4 in the first place. I think she's a good figure. And I shop at Daz, when I, rarely, purchase pre made content. Perhaps others feel screwed by them in some way... but I personally have never had any bad experiences dealing with any of the poser content marketplaces. 

Good question. Ask them why:)

Monopoly.

Technically V4 is not a monopoly, but she might as well be, and that's why some people don't like her: she's too influential and over-powering.
She'd still be influential and over-powering against far superior products.

My opinion; that's why people don't like her, no one but the creator likes a monopoly because they're bad news (even though technically, she isn't one).

I am not anti V4, but at the same time it would be nice to have a character that is better. But better how? and for what? That seems to be eluding everyone for the most part.

I don't use V4 a lot, and that is simply my choice. But I use lots of other characters. V3 is probably the one I use the most, and that is because I am a V3 hold out, and like the fact that V3 has for more polygons on the face than just about any other Figure out there. To me having all those polys is a plus, not a minus. Apparently the V4 fan club does not miss the poly density on the face.

I think people just want a figure that is able to do more with more ease. At least something on par of what the competition can do. But they want it for Poser. Anything less than that and they will be met with disappointment. The bar has been raised in terms of what a figure can do, so that's what they want as well. At least something similar.

No matter how good a figure is, it will never take off well unless it has supporting products.

You could make the most realistic figure, with great bending, and easy to pose, that renders like a dream. But unless you have a ready made catalog for it when it is released, people will not have any use for it.

I have been through several new base figure releases in my time as a product maker, and it takes about a year for the market to start to really adopt the new figure as something worthwhile for their runtimes. So that means for that first year, not many product makers are going to take that gamble on slow sales....and as such, there will not be many new products for that figure.

Without the new products for the figure, the interest in that figure dies away. That is the cycle of death for new figures. We have seen that with several "new" poser figures in recent history.  It is not because the figure was all that bad (well..ok..some were LOL). But nobody wants a figure that only has 2 dresses, and a half dozen skins. It is really not that usable.

What saved DAZ and allowed them to keep sales strong with their genesis line is that they were able to make it so that much of the previous generation stuff still worked "decently" (not perfectly...but decently) on the new generations. So there really was no time where the figures could not be dressed and posed and look fresh in a scene.

Independent figures do not have that luxury.

HW made a sincere attempt with Dawn to have a number of product makers attempt to back her with products, that is why she has done better than a number of new figures......but in the end, she just didn't hold up to popularity like the daz figures, and the market returns were pretty low (speaking of my personal experience that is...and is not meant as a reflection on her market sales as a whole)

I don't have anything against V4.  Still use her a lot.  Still buy stuff for her.  But I'd like something better.

My favorite figures are still SP3 and David.  Especially when weight-mapped.  And I still have the most clothes and stuff for them. The only real drawback is the textures for them tend not to be EZ-Skin friendly.

And Scarlet (with fixes of course) might turn out to be the next big thing for someone. Which is fine with me. I like Mankahoo's Angela figure and I still have ppl asking "who?" - and she's been out for years. LOL. She can't do anything V4 can't do and she's not particularly realistic, but I like her for some reason or other that only my subconscious knows :P. I really like the Genesis 2 figures also, so for practical purposes (because of the glut of products for them) I'll focus on them from here on out. I have enough stuff for the 3's and 4's :). I wish Sixus well tho. It's a really tough market.

Laurie

Any new figure is going to struggle for a while in this market until content for it builds up, which makes it all the more important for figure artists to make that figure as top notch as it can possibly be, and design it in such a way that corrections and modifications can be done to it as needed without having to rework all the content that comes along between initial release and said modifications, if any, are necessary.

The biggest hurdle that anyone is going to face is the simple fact that it takes more effort to build content in Poser than it does in DS. This isn't an opinion, it's simply fact. DS is nearly drag-n-drop now, while Poser still requires more tinkering. Any content artist that has built content for both programs can see that. Hopefully that will change or at least level out a bit more with the next version of Poser, but since none of us know when that next version is going to show up, it's irrelevant at this point.

I have her in my runtime along with many other figures. That is why I see Scarlet as a welcome addition and the efforts of the artists as a welcome contribution. Although, I have never subscribed to the idea that there needed to be only one figure that did it all. Variety is the spice of  life.

"I think that is more true now than ever.  In the old days, a figure was a big investment.  You'd have to buy clothes, textures, hair, etc. for it. And it was all wicked expensive.
With the material room and fitting room and dynamics, it's possible to use figures that don't have a lot of support.  Not to mention a lot items are pretty cheap these days, so the stuff you do buy isn't the huge investment it used to be. "

I agree, that the adoption of a new figure usually does require a significant investment, but as you pointed out the fitting room has helped in that and I have definitely grown quite fond of using dynamic clothing. It is fairly easy to adapt dynamic clothes from figure to figure. I'll bet it would not be too hard to adapt some to Scarlet, which might alleviate some of the cost burden for people who choose to adopt her. Also, I have found that fitting hair to just about any figure is pretty easy so... 

The Poser successor to V4 should come from DAZ. They could release a new V5 for Poser... poser rigged and weightmapped. A separate figure with clothes for it also targeted to Poser users. Why not tap back into that market. If they want they could create a clone for Genesis 2 Female so any clothes for the new poser figure could be autofit to G2F. 

Otherwise is see the gap widening... esp. when vendors need to include Iray and 3delight materials for DAZ products... guess what Poser Materials will be dropped.. its already happening. 

As for Sixus... I have alot of his cool monsters... but this effort seems out of the blue... at least Dawn had the community working with them before her release.

I doubt DAZ are going to support Poser much longer. It is only a matter of time before they drop support all together on future content. Sorry, but SM needed to show them support with DSON. DAZ could not do it on their own and needed SM to incorporate certain features. But we all know SM's stance on the matter anyways. As for a separate version of V5 or any other character from the Genesis line, that would have never worked. It defeats the purpose of what Genesis is. Half the content available would not get a Poser version. It is why Dson was created to easily emulate one version to work in both apps. There is no way the majority of vendors or Daz themselves were willing to do two different versions of the same product. Had the return reflected the effort then maybe. But statistics says otherwise.

SM knew Genesis was in the works, Daz told them what they were doing, it was up to SM to either say they were on board or not. They chose otherwise. Understandable they wanted to stand on their own feet, but for years they were dependant on Daz, (their own content was never the reason people bought Poser) and should have had a backup plan if they were not going to be on board. Things could have been different, but it is what it is. SM has to find a way to make themselves viable again.

And yes, I agree. Scarlet needed to be a community type effort to gain traction. Selling the developer content for her was a bad idea for one. Also giving it to other people prior to release would have possibly meant more content released on day one. To me she comes across as Sixus's figure, and if you want to develop for her you have to pay. No thanks. I don't see a reason to when there is no proven record that this figure would make it big. As content developers we need assurance, and to get that from independent parties is very hard.

Still not sure why people are so anti V4 in the first place. I think she's a good figure. And I shop at Daz, when I, rarely, purchase pre made content. Perhaps others feel screwed by them in some way... but I personally have never had any bad experiences dealing with any of the poser content marketplaces. 

My answer is: It is not the mesh, it is how she is handled. She comes with a whole lot of morph++ setting, which seems to be good, but all ou get in the sttores are remote dial files that set your morph++ sliders. And this for years. It just bores me. If anybody comes along with custom made morphes, I'd go for it, but this is realy a rare event in the stores.

For example: I was looking for a long time to find some nice smiles for V4. The default smile is just ugly, but nobody made a custom new smile set. all that was availeble are sets of existing morph++ combinations, that don't really make it better.

So, after allmost 9???years of V4 every published morph-set just look the same to me. Pixi-faces with that all the same "oops, I've stuck a magic mushroom up my butt" face.

so don't get me wrong, V4 is a great figure. It is too bad, that a modern weight mapped V4 doesn't get more support from the V4 fans, and nobody wants to do something unique with her.

I can only name 3 Vendors, who stick out of that mainstream morph++ all-the-same-V4-look:

AlphaseeD (Alice)

Blackhearted (GND)

Erogenesis (Lali) (Allthough not published, she is an example, what's possible with V4)

I usually liked to have a lot of morphes coming with a figure, but those should not block the figures development and lead into stagnation and a run of the mill repeating of all the same character sets.

But this is only my thought: I know a lot of users just like to click and render and that's it. But I think, it doesn't need a PoserPro2014, just to put a Pixi on a mushroom in front of a DAZ environment magic forrest.

So sorry, I didn't mean to hijack this, but there has been asked that question, and someone else liked it to be answered.

I'm with Zev on this, it's not up to Daz to provide the next big Poser figure, why should they? Do they really need to tap back into the poser-only market? I'd say they are far better off focusing on growing their own market based around good figures designed to take full advantage of their own software. It's high time SM pulled their fingers out and developed a really good figure of their own.

Poser was once the only show in town and DS popped up as the little poser-compatible clone sidekick, but those days are over, DS is a real contender now with its own development path. It would stunt the development of both programs if they and their content had to stay fully compatible with each other forever, better for each to develop its own strengths. If content developers have to choose one to support, then that's just how it is. If they want to make content for both it'll take more work as the 2 programs diverge, but they'll have 2 markets to sell to.

Agreed. Most people just use the basic morph packages on V4 to create characters so all offerings tend to look the same. I have seen some really unique custom made ones, but only a hand full of people create those.

My point is: "why should I decide, at all ?"

Sometimes I'm with Roxie, sometimes Genesis2F.

There are two apps, trying to get me. Fine :) , show me, what you've got.

For example: I've never felt comfortable with DS, but now that they've introduced that IRay rendering, DS became more tempting.

Let's see, what SM is doing next.

So, why worry, why bother, why fighting in the forums? Lean back, and see what bunny they will pull out of their top hats. After all, you are not married to any of those softwares ;)

Darn, sorry it should not turn into a DAZ vs. SM fight again.

No there is no fight lol. My point is in order for a figure to flourish, it needs support. Maybe users don't have to choose and can use whatever they want, but unfortunately us content creators have to bank on ones that are a secure investment. The downside is that most figures who do not make the cut will not get the content attention they deserve. What good is a figure if it cannot do half the things you wish it could do? So that is the situation. Most people would like to use more of a certain figure but because of the lack of content available they can't. This is why it is essential that a figure gets the right backing, or people will use one that caters for their needs. And if a particular company or party does not provide them with that option, users will simply go to where one is available. As a company your aim is to keep your users and customers happy, and it is your responsibility to make sure that happens.

Two V3 custom morphs I made.

If you just spin dials, your characters naturally will look like "Dial Spuns"

Of course there are exceptions to the rule like "Mogadeet" who did incredible things by just spinning V3/M3's head dials:

The-Many-Faces-of-Moggadeet

Two more custom morphs I made for David3WM:

The point: The argument that "we need more than a single figure because morphs cannot create enough variety" is simply not true.

(Look at RawArt's work with Genesis. If that ain't enough "variety" for you, I don't know.)

On the contrary, one high quality figure with professionally topologized, flexible face geometry would inspire more professional CGI-Artists to perhaps try out that DAZ/Poser "hobbyist-thing" and thus do more for the general quality of DAZ/Poser art than a slew of hard-to-work-with, non-supported low-quality figures.

"It seems SM just does not have to funds to pay for Figure developement.

and Most independent Figure creators

understandably do not find it a viable investment for the work required.

I dont understand why there exists, in the minds of many, that there must be a 

Non Daz "Vicky4" killer for poser

Even if it somehow occurred you still would have a long way to go in the area of content

just to Match what Already exists for V4

all the while the newest high quality content has migrated over to genesis anyway."

I actually have to agree with Anabran here.

Unless some "Angel Investor" dumps a few ten-thousand Dollars onto SM to help them pay for a viable "Vicky-Killer", I see no chance of such a figure ever surfacing.

Way too much professional work needed for a "Community-Project".

The only very slim chance they still have is for SM to turn around 180°, go back to DAZ and ask them very nicely if they still might find it in their hearts to share the Genesis tech with them, like they originally intended.

DAZ won't build a "Poser compatible" V6 because they, a) Can't as Poser currently still lacks the necessary tech, and b), They don't have to as they already make enough money.

MAYBE they are still willing to share the technology as long as SM does all the work. (But things changed a bit in the last few years. Genesis is fully established and they need the Poser market less than ever.)

That's the only chance I see to jump start Poser back into life: One figure, one system, one community.

33rpm Vinyl replaced 78rpm Shellacs, Compact Casettes replaced 8-tracks, VHS replaced Betamax, CDs replaced analog, mp3 replaced CDs, DUF replaced the cr2.

It was a format war and DAZ won.

Once Poser gets over the fact that it "lost", it can adapt and thrive again.

Like all the other companies did.

Oh, and another reason why I don't do any "community work" anymore, Shane:

Against my better knowledge (Poor topology, broken rigging, unrealistic shape, lackluster looks), I spent some of my time with Dawn, trying to fix her as best as I could:

But thanks to Hivewire's "No RTE-ncoding allowed" policy, I couldn't even give her away.

And that, as well as the constant anti-Genesis trolling, was the end of 15yrs of "giving back to the community" for me.

I don't think SM will work with Daz in the near future. In fact I see them working more with Hivewire as an alternative. So chances of SM adopting Daz tech is very slim. And ye if Hivewire dropped their pride and rolled with your version of Dawn, she would be a much nicer figure to look at lol.

"I don't think SM will work with Daz in the near future. In fact I see them working more with Hivewire as an alternative. So chances of SM adopting Daz tech is very slim."

Yeah, I'm afraid they still try to go the way of least resistance.

"And ye if Hivewire dropped their pride and rolled with your version of Dawn, she would be a much nicer figure to look at lol."

THANKS! Yes, it's a shame. Lots of people loved her, going by the comments she got back then.

That one with grey hair would look totally awesome if she was a brunette and had a bush.

Those images of Dawn are indeed very striking... totally out of the loop when it comes to Dawn but is it my imagination or does the figure seem more like V3 than V4? Maybe a pointless or meaningless question but just something I've noticed in most of the images I've seen of her, there's something very Poser Daz Retro feeling about the figure.

Seeing what seems to be some clone stamp style seams showing around the shoulder region of that particular skin she's wearing though.

Might just be an effect of the lighting and topology...

Those images of Dawn are indeed very striking... totally out of the loop when it comes to Dawn but is it my imagination or does the figure seem more like V3 than V4? Maybe a pointless or meaningless question but just something I've noticed in most of the images I've seen of her, there's something very Poser Daz Retro feeling about the figure.

Yes, I think so too. That's excactley, why I don't like Dawn. She is so retro. I even think, she is more V2, than V3. At Joe: Did I understand this right. You've could have made major improvements on Dawn, but you are not allowed, because their EULA forbids RTE encoding.

It's not, that you've been unclear, it's just, that I can't believe a company is so st....ahm  strikt. I hate it being patronized.

About Scarlett in order to be back to the topic ;) : I do like her head.I wish, there'd be a major update dealing with her symmetry and rigging issues. She is very, very expensive, so I am really hoping those will be addressed. That recent update is not update enough. Renember the prize. It was 30$ the full prize was even 50$.

I won't ask for refund though. It was me, jumping on a new figure without checking out the forums. I am just to corious to resist.

Dawn might look like V3 because she was modeled by the same person that had a lot to do with modeling V2 and V3.

Laurie

In terms of Poser future development, I do think that the powers that be do need to take a close look at who they are primarily marketing their product to and put more effort into a content support market. I also think that to make a very highly developed character that is suitable for the content creation market, it takes a lot of experience with a team that is supported by the software developers. I know what people are saying about dial morphs here in relation to V4 and her morphs ++, but the average end user customer really needs those morphs to get a look that pleases them. I cannot remember the last time that I used a zbrush/original morph that someone else made without doing some of my own dialing over the top of it. Most of the time I never even touch someone else's original morph that they did for the V4 character simply because I have a preference for a particular look that I can get just fine using the dials. I have the same experience with Genesis 2 and with Dawn, both of which I use and whose morphs are sufficient to create looks that I like. When I look at investing in a character, whether it is for DS or for Poser, I kind of compare the developer created dial morph options to the extensive set of Morphs ++ that was developed for V4.

Back to the OT, I think that a "Vickie Killer" for the Poser market needs to come from a development team, whether it is SM, Daz, HW,  or whoever, who is focused on creating a character that has Morphs ++ range of morphs that enables the end user to easily morph the face into dramatically different shapes, that takes advantage of some of the rarely used Poser features such as the face room, and also is the primary focus for content creation with a team that can back it up. With that said, I think Scarlet is a nice addition to the runtime, but will likely experience a similar level of success as many other independently developed figures.

It's hard to say what the future will hold for Poser development at this point-- with Nerd 3D now heading up the project, I am very much looking forward to seeing what direction Poser takes.  It will be interesting and hopefully some exciting new developments--