i have the fondness for v4 like some have for posette or judy.

she's like my younger sister.

i have the fondness for v4 like some have for posette or judy.

she's like my younger sister.

I do too. She was my primary go-to figure for several years. I think she suffers somewhat now from her massive success. That and the technology has changed and advanced since she first came out.

V4 Erogenesis' Lali .cr2 with morphs ++ and A4 is the figure set up I use for any kind of sexy pin up characters... as far as WM or fixes, Lali's jcm's are fine for a starter (they don't behave well with X&M's fixes though) and if that's still not enough I just export a welded version of the final pose and tweak in a modeler. Really, other than from a collector standpoint and experimentation, I'm not seeing a serious replacement for that set up anywhere in the Poser Native Figure realm.

P**n is what makes the world go round and that is even more true for 3D human figures. HW, SM, and Daz should wake up and make sure that their figures are fully functional. First one that does would have an advantage over the others. There would be no incompatibilities because it's all built in.

You can get full functionality on other sites. No need to catch a wake up call. There are plenty of products in that realm for these figures.

The Poser 5 adult male and female characters were/are fully functional with plenty of morphs already included.  They were released what...15 years ago...never seemed to make a difference.  All anyone ever seems to care about is that Mike and Vicki don't. 

only in the daz poser forums do ya hear this character is broke or it's not right or this n that is wrong.

never do ya hear it in a max,maya,C4D,zbrush etc etc forums.

you have the same tools as every one else in daz poser to rig it just the way you like it.

you have a selection of CGI App's to map,texture any daz poser character anyway ya want.

you have a selection of CGI App's to model ya daz poser character just the way ya want.

Here is test render of 3 V4(V4 with X&M Perfect Fix,V4WM and V4 with Lali Bits) and as for comparison G2F

As you can see on bum/buttocks on Lali bits V4 you can apply anything or any fixes still her arse will looks so weirdly if I can say this mildly,on other hand V4WM or V4 with X&M Perfect fixes looks OK and G2F yes this looks good too

Due this I rather use V4WM or X&M Perfect fix if I could and if I do pin ups etc then Arduino V4-WWG is great thing although doesn't work with WM this I need to investigate too

Thanks,Jura

Yes, true... but I know how to model and own zbrush and a couple other modelers. I'm not constrained by the need to have everything provided for me. Like I said, for me, as far as fixes go, Lali is a good start for jcm's... Not to mention all of the other morphs and features the .cr2 has.

Probably skimming around the edges of being obnoxious again but, one of the most irritating aspects of the Poser user base is the pervasive mentality that everything needs to be provided for you. It's like these pre made figures are some magical things. While it's nice to have most issues resolved for you with a paid product, and it's fair that a product should live up to consumer expectations, at the end of the day these are simply 3d models. Something not working as you like? Nothing is stopping you from fixing it yourself. Can't afford Zbrush, or Max, or modo? Blender and Wings are free.

Poser and DS are budget rendering and character animation suites with an emphasis on purchased pre made content. They're not art automation softwares.

@JoePublic: Your Danielle character could've been converted to a pose and redistributed that way, like any other custom figure. No need for RTE.

Shane, Danielle was a bit more than just a new "character". I also created new weightmaps for her, corrected joint centers and reworked the shaders to properly work in Poser.

Basically I offered Hivewire a free SR1.

Sorry, but I didn't feel like wasting even more of my precious time by learning how to write python scripts so I could properly "inject" new weightmaps and new joint centers as well as JCMs into a figure I'm not really interrested in in the first place, just because Hivewire all of a sudden pulled a "No RTE" policy out of their asses.

I asked around several times, and noone was willing to create that "injection pose" for me, so I guess it wasnt important enough for the community.

No problem for me.

I was just mentioning it to remind people here that everything happens for a reason.

@DeathMetalDesk:

Users of MAX, Maya, C4D, ZBrush are usually professional CGI Artists.

They are expected to build their own tools from the ground up.

Users of Poser/DAZ are usually hobbyists. The only thing they are expected to do is to properly type their credit card # once they are finished with their purchase of premade content.

After that, they, like any other consumer, can rightfully expect their purchase to work as advertised without any need of "fixing".

This of course includes base figures, too.

Personally, I can pretty much do anything a professional CGI-Artist can do, but I usually don't waste my time re-inventing the wheel.

That's why my "personal tools" are highly modified 3rd Gen DAZ figures. I don't need to feed my ego by building my "very own" figure from scratch. (And I don't think I could create a better topology than the DAZ professionals, anyway.)

I rather model stuff that doesn't exist yet.

Anyway, I expect none of this from my fellow DAZ/Poser users.

I just expect anyone who takes money for his work to do a good job.

Yes, true... but I know how to model and own zbrush and a couple other modelers. I'm not constrained by the need to have everything provided for me. Like I said, for me, as far as fixes go, Lali is a good start for jcm's... Not to mention all of the other morphs and features the .cr2 has.

Personally I don't know how to model in ZBrush and many people over here are not skilled like you are although they own Blender or 3DS MAX etc I know how to model few bits in 3DS MAX and this is mostly only architecture for my personal use or I rather sometimes render in 3DS MAX than Poser due the V-RAY As most of people bought Lali due the one thing and this anatomical correctness and her morphs if I could say this non vulgarly,I do render with her,but after I've started to use Arduino V4 WG i started to use her more than Lali,i can apply on her(WG) any morph from X&M or Zev0 and everything is working without the problem,there is included too GND4 morphs/SheFreak etc

Thanks,Jura

JoePublic it would be easy to customize Roxie rigs with weight maps.

anyone could do it easily.

Probably skimming around the edges of being obnoxious again but, one of the most irritating aspects of the Poser user base is the pervasive mentality that everything needs to be provided for you. It's like these pre made figures are some magical things. While it's nice to have most issues resolved for you with a paid product, and it's fair that a product should live up to consumer expectations, at the end of the day these are simply 3d models. Something not working as you like? Nothing is stopping you from fixing it yourself. Can't afford Zbrush, or Max, or modo? Blender and Wings are free.

Poser and DS are budget rendering and character animation suites with an emphasis on purchased pre made content. They're not art automation softwares.

This is not only aspect of Poser user base,but everyone who pays for their content,those pre made figures should be error free and there we will don't need those fixes in first place and this is good starting point for us as customers  People who use ZBrush or MAX and Modo and many other SW they know how to model and most of us don't know how to model or how to fix it,i do own Blender or 3DS MAX (EDU edition) and really I don't know how to model and how to fix those bits,I do know how to model few bits in 3DS MAX and this is mostly arch related or some simple dresses etc

If Poser and DS is budget rendering SW,why you using? Or why you rather don't not build yours own base figure ? 

Thanks,Jura

@DeathMetalDesk:

Users of MAX, Maya, C4D, ZBrush are usually professional CGI Artists.

They are expected to build their own tools from the ground up.

Users of Poser/DAZ are usually hobbyists. The only thing they are expected to do is to properly type their credit card # once they are finished with their purchase of premade content.

After that, they, like any other consumer, can rightfully expect their purchase to work as advertised without any need of "fixing".

This of course includes base figures, too.

Personally, I can pretty much do anything a professional CGI-Artist can do, but I usually don't waste my time re-inventing the wheel.

That's why my "personal tools" are highly modified 3rd Gen DAZ figures. I don't need to feed my ego by building my "very own" figure from scratch. (And I don't think I could create a better topology than the DAZ professionals, anyway.)

I rather model stuff that doesn't exist yet.

Anyway, I expect none of this from my fellow DAZ/Poser users.

I just expect anyone who takes money for his work to do a good job.

This is very well put. I think that sometimes the long-time users don't realize what it is like to come into this community without experience or know-how. It took me a couple of years to get to the point that I could really do anything besides load and pose content that others created. If I had been expected to fix problems on things in order to make them work, I would simply have given up. This is a content driven market. The market would not exist if everyone could just whip up their own stuff to use. if vendors want customers to purchase their items, they do need to make sure that a novice end user can pick it up, plug it in and render without having to fix a bunch of things to make it work. Even though there are some things I can do--My skill level and my tools would never allow me to be able to fix some problems that come along.  

if ya going to have the philosophy I don't know how and I don't want to learn then ya stuck with what ya buy for $5.00's.

setting around n fussing about the $5.00 content is pointless ,if ya not willing to make a effort to learn CGI. 

ya buy poser n then ya don't want to learn to use it.so ya fuss about stuff.

poser has never been a big content seller ,they sell poser.

daz has always been the content seller ,at the end of the day daz is a vender.

Agree with what you said there, joepublic... especially the model stuff which doesn't exist. Although most things in art have already been done there's still plenty of room for personal interpretation, which is what I think you actually mean. 

@Jura, yes I have Arduino's yV4wg. And PoseidenTechs misty, and KarinaVag, and RajDarj's GSpot. Lol. Funny because I don't do to much pin up Posering and have never made any pornographic (in a conventional sense) Poser imagery. I used to just collect these things because of weirdness factor and just in case I ever felt like exploring that kind of 3d imagery.

As far as yV4wg, that morph and prop set is definitely showing it's age... the included textures are too low res and have way too much burnt in specular. The morph itself has a large displaced crease around the waist and alot of crumpling around the Gen crease area. Saying that the included Gen prop is rudimentary is a kindness. You would be much better off, if you don't want to use Lali, trying out the Karina prop (free) over at shareCG.

http://www.sharecg.com/v/42779/browse/5/3D-Model/A-new-genital-prop-for-V4-A4-G4-S4-L3

Of course if detail isn't called for Arduino's prop is fine, it's just the accompanying morphs that have issues IMHO. (Which can be fixed easily, and I am wondering why arduino did not, even after updating the product these issues are still present. They were just worse before the update).

@ RorrKonn. Yes, end of the day Daz is Vendor. But this vendor also managed to make it's own app, and is doing more with it than what SM is doing with theirs. So, Daz has content and an App, SM just really has the App, which is way behind DS in terms of advancements.  I get tired of this whole SM's focus is the software and not content and Daz is just focused on content comments. So how is it Daz is able to do both and beat SM at its own game? When you put it in that perspective, you see the work that has to be done here from SM's side. If SM's focus is software, then shouldn't Poser be kicking Daz Studio in the ass in all aspects?

"Funny because I don't do to much pin up Posering and have never made any pornographic (in a conventional sense) Poser imagery. I used to just collect these things because of weirdness factor and just in case I ever felt like exploring that kind of 3d imagery."

Yeah, whatever!!!

Later,
Roxie - Girl With Blade

Daz seriously needs to work on their documentation ZeVo. It's disgraceful.

Also letting wonderful apps like Bryce, Carrara, and Hex flounder is another point of contention. These things have nothing to do with any SM/Daz back and forth.

Edit: Ok, they've done some things with Carrara... unfortunately the documentation of these new features is incomplete. It's really irritating.

Documentation......There is an active forum there where you can get more info and quicker, as well as endless vid links showing you how to do things. Documentation has never taught me how to do a specific task. It's mainly there to explain what features do within an app. If I post an image and ask why the character skin is not at it's best with regards to the scene lighting, do you think documentation is going to give me an answer? Or will users in a thread be able to help me more specifically and give advice faster? Same story with content creation. So to me documentation isn't even a deciding factor these days. There are many other formats that will give you the answer you are looking for. With regards to the other apps from them, if the market is no longer interested, then why continue forced development?

Agree with what you said there, joepublic... especially the model stuff which doesn't exist. Although most things in art have already been done there's still plenty of room for personal interpretation, which is what I think you actually mean. 

@Jura, yes I have Arduino's yV4wg. And PoseidenTechs misty, and KarinaVag, and RajDarj's GSpot. Lol. Funny because I don't do to much pin up Posering and have never made any pornographic (in a conventional sense) Poser imagery. I used to just collect these things because of weirdness factor and just in case I ever felt like exploring that kind of 3d imagery.

As far as yV4wg, that morph and prop set is definitely showing it's age... the included textures are too low res and have way too much burnt in specular. The morph itself has a large displaced crease around the waist and alot of crumpling around the Gen crease area. Saying that the included Gen prop is rudimentary is a kindness. You would be much better off, if you don't want to use Lali, trying out the Karina prop (free) over at shareCG.

http://www.sharecg.com/v/42779/browse/5/3D-Model/A-new-genital-prop-for-V4-A4-G4-S4-L3

Of course if detail isn't called for Arduino's prop is fine, it's just the accompanying morphs that have issues IMHO. (Which can be fixed easily, and I am wondering why arduino did not, even after updating the product these issues are still present. They were just worse before the update).

Hi there I do have Karina prop and use mostly only hip morphs which in most cases is enough for my needs and about the low res of the Arduino maps that's correct,they're bit on low res side and not sure if I do mean yV4-WG(this I don't have) I mean V4 WG Rs3 which is good addon its not as much detailed like Lali,but there every fix works as has been intended to work and I do usually fix some incorrectness if needs to be in other apps,just Lali is bit too much for me to fix her buttocks 

Thanks,Jura

Nowhere in my above statement did I say that Poser was better than DS because of documentation superiority. Daz needs to have accurate and up to date documentation for their software, bottom line. Yes, I go to online forums and visit the CarraraCafe to keep abreast of things... the fact that Daz is incapable of providing documentation for their software is just straight up bizarre.

OK, been fun trying to be conversational. Going to bail, too much drift herebouts.

"Yes, end of the day Daz is Vendor. But this vendor also managed to make it's own app, and is doing more with it than what SM is doing with theirs. So, Daz has content and an App, SM just really has the App, which is way behind DS in terms of advancements.  I get tired of this whole SM's focus is the software and not content and Daz is just focused on content statements. So how is it Daz is able to do both and beat SM at its own game? When you put it in that perspective, you see the work that has to be done here from SM's side."

Well said indeed,

If one takes more than a casual Glance at DS4 , as I have been lately,

it becomes obvious the DAZ Studio Pro is Equally focused on both Content Creation

as well as Content presentation.

and it supports all of my legacy Poser6 era content

Also I recently 

realized a great pipeline to get  fully textured&animated genesis Characters into My Maxon Cinema4D

Via DAZ's "MDD out" feature

as it applies point level animation to static, fully textured genesis Obj file

imported to Cinema4D.

Another big  area where I personally see the poser market Failing is Hair offerings

particularly for males .

Thankfully DS has the option to convert genesis hair figures to textured props

enableling me to export them for use on My poser figure in Cinema4D.

" If I post an image and ask why the character skin is not at it's best with regards to the scene lighting, do you think documentation is going to give me an answer? Or will users in a thread be able to help me more specifically and give advice faster? Same story with content creation. So to me documentation isn't even a deciding factor these days. "

Agreed and trust me this is the case even for the so called "high end" programs from Nextlimit Realflow to Autodesk Max.

A vibrant& Active Online user community is often ones best resource

Poser's Math intensive Material Room comes to mind in this regard.

I'll just pop back to address something that jura said earlier...

"If Poser and DS is budget rendering SW,why you using? Or why you rather don't not build yours own base figure ?"

Poser and DS are budget software. There's nothing wrong with this. Why? Because I love Poser, It was my introduction to 3d. I enjoy making stuff for and with Poser and I've spent a great deal of time learning how to use its less than obvious features. Poser is incredibly deep once you strip away all of the surface make art button aspects and take a look inside its files, the set up room, the cloth room, etc. Kinda like why Wings is my favorite modeler even though I have software that's more fancy (as box modeler Wings will give any other modeler a run for its money, modo included). I have made my own figures, although I don't think robots or tentacled creepy crawlies or articulated plants would look as good bent over a couch as V4 can (not to mention that the idea of trying to model as well and rig something even remotely sophisticated as V4 on ones own is absurd, like Joe said no need to reinvent the wheel. Nice to know how to put some new rims on though. 

Zev0 the point was if ya get C4D ,max ,daz ,poser etc etc

and if ya don't learn how to use it .then ya limiting ya self .

and setting around fussing about it woun't change nothing.

but learning the app will open a lot of doors and change everything.

I have poser and daz studio there CGI app's that do what they do.

but since ya want to do this vs that app

ya want to play daz studio vs max,mudbox ?

@ ZeVo and Wolf, everyone knows that learning the deep stuff with any software is going to take alot more than just reading the documentation. You are both stating the absurdly apparent. What's also absurdly apparent is that Daz's basic included documentation is about 3 versions behind. And has been for a long time. There's nothing to argue about with this, it's a complaint I've heard at every forum, in product reviews, and when I sit down to use Carrara. Why this is not being addressed is a mystery.

Disagree with the budget software comment. Would you classify Blender as budget software? Surely it is since its free? Yet it is used by industry professionals. Don't brand something just because of who it was aimed at when it started out. Same can be said about price tags attached. I have seen some really expensive apps that are pure crap. In contrast, I have seen renders created with these"budget" softwares that give ones made by professional apps a good run for their money:)

@ ZeVo and Wolf, everyone knows that learning the deep stuff with any software is going to take alot more than just reading the documentation. You are both stating the absurdly apparent. What's also absurdly apparent is that Daz's basic included documentation is about 3 versions behind. And has been for a long time. There's nothing to argue about with this, it's a complaint I've heard at every forum, in product reviews, and when I sit down to use Carrara. Why this is not being addressed is a mystery.

Probably because the situation is generally exaggerated and this argument is trotted out every time these app wars break out. Most often the people that try this rehashed argument hasn't looked at DS in years, nor really used it. That said, if the docs were really an issue, there simply wouldn't be the amount of content available for pay nor freebies made from the app. And as others has said, even the more expensive apps lack docs; I know my zbrush 4.7 doesn't go too in depth with information and I have to do my proper research to find out how to do stuff. I'd let that argument go as it's beating a dead horse.  

What happened to the Scarlett convo, btw? ;)

I'm looking at my included documentation. I didn't say that I'm unable to access the community, even from within the app, to learn the how to use the features. Version 8.1 pro build 135.

It's just something that I think Daz should prioritize... I guess they quit development on Carrara. Not sure why they're hanging on to this stable of software, which still has users, if they are going to focus solely on DS.  I mean I get the focus, more power to them. it's a small pond. But to let the others wither away into obsolesence seems unnecessary. 

MaleM3dia, I purchased software from Daz, Carrara. this has nothing to do with DS. Wasn't even aware that DS documentation is incomplete. That is even more weird.

I have poser and daz studio there CGI app's that do what they do.but since ya want to do this vs that app

ya want to play daz studio vs max,mudbox ?

And out of the three what App caters for this type of market the best? How many use those apps for the content sold here? Kind of a silly comparison to make to be honest. The others are primarily content creation tools. Yes they can render as well, but how long will it take to set up using assets from this market? Material conversions etc. The comparison that should be made is between apps that apply directly to THIS market. Bringing in other ones make no sense lol.

 

 

 

OK. Bye.

MaleM3dia, I purchased software from Daz, Carrara. this has nothing to do with DS. Wasn't even aware that DS documentation is incomplete. That is even more weird.

It isn't. Check the wiki. That's where the updates are. And Carrara is at 8.5 with another update that occurred last week.

Doesn't matter what version it is at now, 8.1 is the latest that will run on my Mac.

I'll take a look at the wiki... Thanks. 

Let me prove how viable documentation is these days. Poser is apparently very well documented right? It has a thick Bible. So why are constant threads being popped up asking the most basic questions? Maybe, just maybe, nobody really cares or reads the documentation that is provided:) People want instant answers and don't want to troll though chapters and chapters trying to find an answer to a simple task. Most will just start a thread. EG I see Poser users asking questions all the time regarding how to do things, but it comes with documentation that covers everything? My point is, documentation isn't really something that is sooo important. People will use other methods of obtaining answers to what they need, and most of them get the answers they want regardless if an app has documentation or not.

You are one argumentative dude, ZeVo. I just posted earlier my clarification about the term "budget". The term refers to cost not functionality.

Your not here to discuss anything Zero. My mistake.

Naaa. I don't just sit here and agree with comments I don't really agree with. If I don't I will say something:) I have always done so. Don't like me, place me on ignore.

OK. Henceforth ignored.

Awesome thanks:)

lol

Zev0 : LMAO

is not the biggest thing daz studio is made for , rendering and posing Vicky ?

I'm talking about the best looking CGI character possible with the best rigs best dynamic hair and cloth .

max,mudbox wins ;)

I just wanted to say that it makes a change to be able to sit back and watch others have at each other, fun stuff :-D
Here follows a prediction of the conversation to follow between DMD and Zev0

Bye.
Bye.
Oh, and BTW ... oh never mind.
Dude, just put me on ignore.
Don't tell me what to do.
Well how else can you ignore me then?
Stop talking to me.
No, just put me on ignore.
You first.
Ok then I will.
Right then.
Right.
So did you put me on ignore?
No.
Why not?
Cause the Ignore button doesn't even work.
Well you better stop talking to me then cause I don't want to hear this shit!
Why not just stop listening?
How can I if you keep talking?
Don't read my stuff then.
Don't worry about that, I won't.
Poser sucks cock.
Right, that does it, I'm really putting you on ignore this time.
RIght then.
Right.
Blender is King.
I didn't see that, you are on ignore.

LOL! Get out the Popcorn!

 I have seen some really expensive apps that are pure crap. In contrast, I have seen renders created with these"budget" softwares that give ones made by professional apps a good run for their money:)

I think this just comes down to the person using the software and their level of proficiency with it. I have gone back and looked at some early renders that I made with both DS and Poser and I can see definite improvement since I first started using them. There are some massively talented render artists doing great stuff with both Poser and DS as well as other less expensive software. Likewise I've seen some really great stuff done with Vue and Maya, so I think sometimes it really just comes down to the proficiency level of the artist.

Lol Pumeco can post for me since he's already doing a fantastic job:)

I think this just comes down to the person using the software and their level of proficiency with it. I have gone back and looked at some early renders that I made with both DS and Poser and I can see definite improvement since I first started using them. There are some massively talented render artists doing great stuff with both Poser and DS as well as other less expensive software. Likewise I've seen some really great stuff done with Vue and Maya, so I think sometimes it really just comes down to the proficiency level of the artist.

I fully agree.