Thanks for hitting it on the head, David.

Guys, what is the point?

I have a ton of figures, and V4 happens to be one of them. I helped out on V4~WM, so yes I obviously use it now and again. But it is not the last character I will ever use.

I tried my best to help out with Dawn, but people slaughtered it rather quickly. She is still in my Runtime and I still use her now and again.

I tried with a few versions of Antonia as well.

Does anyone want to guess what this taught me?

Here is a small list........

• Many people claim to know what they want but they don't, even when they get what they asked for.
• People want a weight mapped character that can use all of V4's stuff... I already helped on one of those, many people wanted just that....
• People claim that Poser needs to do "insert whatever". I am glad you don't work for SMicro...
• The next character needs.... Yes it does, it needs support instead of bashing it into a Runtime that never gets used.
• Here is a new Figure, it bends like crap, it renders like crap, please support it.... Not........... Don't even bother releasing one like that...
• I know what Poser should do... No, I don't think you do....
• Genesis should work in Poser.... Show me another app it works in........... Wait Studio, the one it is designed for.......... Use it in Studio then...
• Many people know what it is like to develop a figure... Great, where is it??????

Lots of people seem to have all the answers for this, but the fact remains that people are going to use whatever Figure they want too in Poser.

Arguing about it is beyond pointless, because you are not paying for anyone else's Runtime choices.

Your make art choices are going to be different than just about everyone else's even if you both use the same Figure.

This thread should have been locked a long time ago. Many people have laid out many reasons why they still use V4 and people are saying otherwise in many posts. Some of the posts are so off topic it is comical.

If you know what they next Poser character should have, then by all means make it and be done with it.

We will see how well it stacks up to any user, no matter what figures they use now.

Feel free to flame me, bash me, bash my work, etc. Because in the end there are some you that know far more about it than any else could, and have contributed basically nothing to Poser other than biased opinions....

Ironic isn't it..............

My favorites are: - the ones who want SM to add functions to the program that existed 4 versions back; and

• the screeching about how V4WM got no support.  LOL, you guys did such a great job weight mapping her, she had the exact same support as V4 on the day she was released.  V4WM was fully supported with V4's existing runtime from the day of release.  (with the single exception of long hair which some vendors created with unique/unconventional rigging)

ScareCrow my bad ,my bad I forgot how demented you where ;)

shvrdavid

most threads questions are answered buy the 3rd post.
if a stranger looked and all they saw was a few threads with a few post .
well ,it would make this forum look like a dead forum.
people think dead forum dead site.
so even thou we can't stay on subject or follow rules very well ,at least where keeping the site a live. :)
and with a thread titled "Why are you still using daz V4?" the title alone screams **"warning debate zone"
**but the question was answered so what's it hurt if where still having a conversion about CGI ,this is a CGI forum.

I know what Poser should do... No, I don't think you do....

don't know about that sells philosophy

Genesis should work in Poser.... Show me another app it works in........... Wait Studio, the one it is designed for.......... Use it in Studio then...

actually daz poser or any app characters will work in any app as long as you can export in the rig format

Many people know what it is like to develop a figure... Great, where is it??????
ahh ,if they could make there own characters ,well ,they wouldn't need daz ,poser would they

one last thing shvrdavid you all alt to hier Joe Public to rig all of poser characters.

Thanks Glitter.

I posted a pose file that corrects the long hair issue on V4WM in one click. It is in the V4WM thread somewhere. I should have put it in there as soon as the thread appeared thou. I also posted examples of how to deal with the shoes. Lots of people said how much they wanted a weight mapped version of V4, so they would not have to buy new content. Some people are asking for a character that uses V4 content, which to me is sort of pointless if they don't even want to use a weight mapped version of V4. They already have a weight mapped character that uses all of V4s content. More than one version is out there now to boot.

Rorr, one of the projects proposed and started at Poser Place was to weight map all of the Poser characters. I have most of them done, but mesh issues cause serious issues with symmetry commands and rigging projection to clothing. It is far too easy to break them using commands in the program. If people had issues with AntoniaWM and V4WM, I cant imagine the reaction that would happen if I released the Poser ones and someone used the symmetry command on them.......

There are a lot of people that have my beta version of Sydney WM, and you can tie her into a knot for the most part. A few have Jessi as well, which can also be tied into a knot.

Who weight maps them is not really the issue, it is the meshes that present serious issues.

RorrKonn Wrote:
"ScareCrow my bad, my bad I forgot how demented you where ;)"

No worries, at least it makes you savvy to what demented people can do.

Thanks Glitter.

I posted a pose file that corrects the long hair issue on V4WM in one click. It is in the V4WM thread somewhere. I should have put it in there as soon as the thread appeared thou. I also posted examples of how to deal with the shoes. Lots of people said how much they wanted a weight mapped version of V4, so they would not have to buy new content. Some people are asking for a character that uses V4 content, which to me is sort of pointless if they don't even want to use a weight mapped version of V4. They already have a weight mapped character that uses all of V4s content. More than one version is out there now to boot.

Oh, I vividly remember the hell we went through on that project and the genius fix with the toe of shoes!  LOL! And, you're right, of course.......we gave them everything they said they wanted......a weight mapped figure with no added expense of replacing the V4 runtime by buying it all over again. And, when every request was granted, the project just got savaged.  And continues to be savaged to this day.

I hate to repeat myself, but I have come to the conclusion that what a lot of people want is for Poser to become DAZ with a Poser logo.  Nothing else will suffice.

But, hey, here's a new figure for them to savage.  And it's FREE!

Oh, and she comes with free clothes as well.  Spherical rigging, but done well!

http://www.sharecg.com/v/81385/gallery/11/Poser/AYANA-DOLL-by-Glidman

http://www.sharecg.com/v/81386/gallery/11/Poser/Clothing-Pack-for-Ayana-Doll-mat-node-update

shvrdavid my bad I actually meant Roxie n Rex and the new SubD characters for poser pro 16 etc etc.would be cool if they had flawless rigs.

I know smith micro inherited a mess with the old character's.
you have my sympathies trying to fix that.
I'm not sure if a truck load of lighting could accomplish that miracle. 

Good find Glitter, off to download it and check it out.

I must have missed all the savaging of V4WM, must have been too busy using it at the time and I still am, almost every day.  V4WM is not only fun to use it has saved me a fortune.

I must have missed all the savaging of V4WM, must have been too busy using it at the time and I still am, almost every day.  V4WM is not only fun to use it has saved me a fortune.

It was pretty brutal.  Folks were unhappy that it wasn't just a "load, pose, render" solution.  They had to run a python script once. Of course, the folks who worked on the conversion got the "blame" for adhering to the DAZ copyright rules.

It was, in fact, the reason you are unlikely to ever see another DAZ figure WM conversion done.

Do poser users want a daz studio that reads poser.I can't speak for the others.
but I can say what I want .

I want perfection.
I want a subDed polycount around 20,000 character that is anatomically correct and is rigged perfectly ,bends perfectly.
that has a monumental amount of sinceable "not V3 like morphs" morphs and wicked texturing.and endless support from the creator.

now do I care who daz ,poser ,max ,mudbox etc etc delivers it ? NO, I just care I get it. All I care about is I get what I want.
and I'm betting I'm not the only human that thinks this way.

I'm so glad I released V3WM and D3WM (And I think I gave away one copy of M4LOD-WM and V2PreTeen-WM, too) without any expectation of saving the Poserverse from the evil empire of DAZ. Lol.

I made them purely for fun and to demonstrate what Poser is really capeable of and what should rightfully be expected from a "native Poser" figure.

I knew exactly what the "one-click-render" crowd expected so instead of "mad genius" rigging, I left the joint centers alone to make them compatible with non-weightmapped clothing without the need for any "cloth conversion" python script nuisance.

Don't get me wrong, that script, like most of cage's scripts, is probably sheer genius, but didn't you folk really know that anything beyond "load-pose-render" is way too much work for the average user?

Besides:

Antonia was a nice "amateur" mesh, but one look at her mesh topology was enough to give ample proof that she wasn't even remotely in the same league as the Vickys.

Combine that lack of proper muscle topology with more "mad genius rigging" and looks that only a mother could love and the result was obvious to anyone except those dreaming of becoming the white knights of the Poserverse.

Then you guys pressured Phantom3D into weightmapping V4. I warned him that he should only do the stuff he was really comfortable with.

He re-rigged her anyway against his better judgement and it shows. Her ass still explodes and her ellbows are like wet noodles. Then there was the need for cloth conversion and again everyone but you knew immediately that that would make her a stillborn.

Then Dawn. I mean, WTF? She looks like V1 before Anton made her pretty and then they claim her to be "made for Poser" while she was actually rigged in Studio?

Seriously, even Posette had better mesh topology. Before I resort to using Dawn, I rather use V1 or at least Stephanie 1.

Oh, wait, Dawn and Steph 1/Michael 1 were made by the same guy? How come he obviously forgot everything about proper mesh topology in the meantime, then?

Sorry, I knew that Dawn would be a dud the moment I saw her topology. (Or lack thereof)

And so knew everyone else.

Really, you folks must be around just as long as I am and you still DO NOT KNOW how the masses "tick"?

They want hassle free, one click functionality.

They want the latest, greatest Vicky to "just work" in Poser the same as she does in Studio.

Yes, they basically want Studio with a Poser layout because they can't even be bothered to spend a few minutes learning a new interface.

They are incredibly lazy because that's what Poser is actually all about!

Too lazy to model, to map, rig, heck, even too lazy to pose? Poser (and your creditcard) will do all this for you!

And then you throw that Nerdy McNerd stuff at them and expect them to worship the ground under V4WM's feet. Lol.

Sorry, but that's not how the average human behaves.

They want it all, they want it now, and the want it with as little effort as possible.

So, please, please, please can we finally put all that butthurt to rest?

Neither you, nor SM, nor Hivewire seem to have the slightest clue WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT.

They neither want dumpy Antonia nor soggy ellbowed V4 nor horse-faced Dawn.

They want something NEW and FRESH and HOT that still can use their myriad of V4 outfits they hoarded in the past. Without the need to run any conversion software.

DAZ knew that so they created GENESIS and AUTOFIT which can do everything you wanted to achieve, only better.

I'm so sick of the constant whining in this place.

Nothing you did was good enough. Because it simply wasn't "good enough".

And you have noone to blame for it than (mostly) SM for not giving you the right tools (I.e. a figure with a mesh topology as good as the DAZ figures have), and yourself for completely getting high on your own awesomeness.

Either PoserPro 2016 will have total Genesis compatibility or it's the end of the show.

You can bitch, piss and moan all you want, but that is what both users and merchants want.

LOL, and there you have it.  Thank you, JoePublic, for proving my point.

Hey we got Joe Public out of lurk mode. I feel like we accomplished some thing to day ;)

where is Phantom3D at these days ?

A big thumb up for JoePublic.

Can we make JoePublic's post a sticky?

Thanks for the kind words, but I feel like I just kicked a puppy.

I have not doubt that they meant well, but reality is what it is.

It took me a while to come to terms with the fact that really no non-DAZ mesh past and present has enough potential (I.e. a good enough mesh topology) to go against the Vickies.

I wasted a lot of time "fixing" and "customizing" native Poser meshes myself, but in the end it was just that:

A waste of my time. Years of hard work down the drain because the foundation was simply not good enough

So instead of repairing what was broken I rather decided perfecting what was already good.

And I never regretted that decision.

And that's why I wanted to spare others the wasted time and dissapointment and tried my best to nip projects like Antonia or V4WM already in the bud before hopes would get too high and expectations way too unrealistic.

Poser still has the potential to be great again.

But it will take real sh*tloads of money and real professional skills and not some well meant community project.

But as I said: Feels like kicking a puppy and I really don't want to do that anymore.

JoePublic Wrote:
"Neither you, nor SM, nor Hivewire seem to have the slightest clue WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT."

+1
Been saying that for years, although I'm sorry to hear of your opinion on Dawn.
I quite like some of the images I've seen posted of her, it's a shame to hear her topology isn't up to scratch.

Agree with all Joe said. Pretty much sums up the entire situation.

I must have missed all the savaging of V4WM, must have been too busy using it at the time and I still am, almost every day.  V4WM is not only fun to use it has saved me a fortune.

It was pretty brutal.  Folks were unhappy that it wasn't just a "load, pose, render" solution.  They had to run a python script once. Of course, the folks who worked on the conversion got the "blame" for adhering to the DAZ copyright rules.

It was, in fact, the reason you are unlikely to ever see another DAZ figure WM conversion done.

What a shame that a few people, and I bet I can list most of the names involved, have such a negative impact on the community.  V4WM is the mayor reason I am still using V4 and will continue to do so, I guess that is what irks them so much.   Still it does reflect real life, there are always more people willing to complain than those that are willing, or even capable, of building something better, much easier to trash others work.

Well I don't normally post, but it seems to me that the people who do have strong opinions that may NOT reflect the vast majority of users. Can I therefore thank the creators of the V4 weight mapped for all there hard work - I assure you I have been using her.

V4/M4 are perfectly adequate for my needs. But V4 is not perfect. I try to make realistic morphs and I can tell you that means significant alteration of the base mesh, especially around the eyes. Any replacement needs to have more polys. That would not be Genesis then.I agree with changing the UV layout and the lips should be part of the face texture.

Most poser / Daz users though are just going to want something that looks good out of the box is very easy to clothe, and that looks realistic when posed.

Dawn is butt ugly - what were they thinking ? Same goes for Antonia. An attractive model has average features that adhere to the golden ratio. No excuse for coming out with something that doesn't. Many people buy an automobile based on what it looks like rather than what's under the hood. Come to think about it, they tend to marry on that basis as well. If there is a WOW factor people will want the character in their runtimes and vendors will want to support the figure.

the only ones that can legally make a new mesh for poser that can use V4's stuff is daz. so that's a dead end street.

I've seen this posted a few times. Is this true? V4 Clothing converters don't need DAZ's permission do they?

Joe.

We knew that the majority of the Poser users wanted a one click solution, but Daz did not agree to that. We did not go to all the trouble to make that script to get around something, just because. If we would have been allowed to do a one click solution we would have done so.

I know this, because I was the one talking with Daz about the copyright issues and that is the way they said we had to do it. I was the one doing the negotiating and they refused to allow a one click solution to be used.

So if you want to point blame at someone, don't point it at the group of people that spent months to do something that people said they wanted. Blame the people that refused to allow a one click solution. And that would be Daz, not the people that did V4WM.

Someone mentioned that Ayana doll looks very similar to Terai Yuki 2, over in the Free Forums.  I don't have Terai Yuki 2, and even if, I would not be able to tell...so innocent until proven guilty I guess!  :)

(sorry, replying to glitterati3d above's post, but did not want to quote the whole thing, in case this is too off-topic)

With all respect Joepublic:

"And that's why I wanted to spare others the wasted time and dissapointment and tried my best to nip projects like Antonia or V4WM already in the bud before hopes would get too high and expectations way too unrealistic."

Im glad you didnt succeed as im very fond of V4WM and Antonia, as I am of your V3, David and M4 low res versions.

I am very grateful for community and individual efforts that brings extra joy to the Poser universe.

where is Phantom3D at these days ?

He had some serious health issues, and I think he decided he had better things to do with his time.  I haven't heard from him in over a year. He was working on a M4WM, but never finished it.  I played around a while back with using JoePublic's M4 LOD rig to make an M4WM and posted a render of it, and only got negative feedback, so I didn't pursue it further.

PS; JoePublic, while I remember your M4 kid, I don't remember seeing your V2PreTeen-WM...

the only ones that can legally make a new mesh for poser that can use V4's stuff is daz. so that's a dead end street.

I've seen this posted a few times. Is this true?

One can make a mesh that fits into V4's clothes, and one can aquire the rig (or use the Poser Place V4 WM rig, which is freely distributable, and rig the fingers and toes ) and the information to create the UV layout from third party products, so it's not an issue of Copyright Law, but the scope of the DAZ EULA.   Probably the only way to find out for sure  is for someone to get sued...

Someone mentioned that Ayana doll looks very similar to Terai Yuki 2, over in the Free Forums.  I don't have Terai Yuki 2, and even if, I would not be able to tell...so innocent until proven guilty I guess!  :)

(sorry, replying to glitterati3d above's post, but did not want to quote the whole thing, in case this is too off-topic)

I don't have that figure either.  Sorry, no clue..........

 I hate to hear that about Phantom3D. He's one of the better Artist among us.

I am NOT against community efforts at all...

What fed me up was that Antonia, V4WM and also Dawn were promoted as perfectly valid replacements for either a professionally made native Poser figure or FULL Genesis compatibility in Poser.

So everytime someone wished for a V4 replacement, they had to defend themselves for not being satisfied with Antonia, V4WM or Dawn.

Yes, DAZ meshes are copyrighted. That's why my weightmaps are all RTE-encoded.

And I do know that RTE-encoding is just as big a "No-No" to the average user as are conversion scripts.

But...I don't care, because I never built V3WM or D3WM or any of the others to be a true V4 replacement.

So to me it's the same if only one person uses them or one thousand. I even made them "open source" by allowing modification and re-distribution (as long as they are re-RTE-encoded again).

But once people manage the RTE-decoding, they can "one click" use them just as the original figures.

See, I know why you did what you did. And the idea and execution of "Outfitter" was brilliant.

But I think it is simply the wrong solution to the copyright problem because people are what they are.

What was needed was to start with an 100% SM made figure with just a good topology as V3 or V4 has. Or at least as Genesis 2 has.

With lots of realistic morphs provided and distributed by SM.

And the development of a kind of no-click Autofit tech by SM to auto-convert V4 clothing.

In short, lots and lots of official backup.

And payment for those doing the heavy lifting.

Because SM is not a bunch of friends working on free software in their garage, but a company just like DAZ, and if they want help earning $$$, they need to pay for it.

THEN I might have seen a chance to create a veritable "Vicky Killer" with the help of the community.

Do you think it is FUN to always play the "a**hole" part?

I much rather BUILD something than destroy it.

But I learned the hard way again and again that if you don't start RIGHT, a lot of effort and well meaning will be wasted.

And a lot of bitterness will be the result.

But maybe saying nothing and letting others just make their own mistakes is the lesson I should have learned earlier.

"PS; JoePublic, while I remember your M4 kid, I don't remember seeing your V2PreTeen-WM..."

She was just an experiment because a friend found it much easier to "grow/age up" PTVic into a realistic average sized adult woman than to "grow down" actual V2.

I assume untextured meshes still don't count as "nudity"?

I'm really too lazy to re-render all the demo pics I made a few years ago:

This is just "raw" Poser weightmapping, btw, No JCMs.

(Hmm, I wonder if the new Genesis 3 Kid is just as flexible.)  ;-)

Oh, and here is the "average-sized" ADULT character based on the V2PreTeen-WM mesh:

Well ,well  ,well we have yelled,scream and shouted at the devil but have we gotten any where ?

We all have are own opinions about poserverse .some agree others disagree. 

there are still basic facts that need no opinions 

poser and daz studio are dependent on others to make and support characters for the software. 
so if you use poser or daz studio your at the mercy of others. 

posers dilemma is daz was the only ones that made and supported characters for poser.daz left poser. 
it's a fact that no one wants to get over that is causing 99.9% of the arguing .

since daz left poser ,what options do we have ? 

1 HiveWire3D has dawn. kinda slow about making progress.
2 Stock poser characters. not the best rigs n limited support n resources.
3 WMV4 it's like pinning for a bitch that done left you. that's not going to get you any where in the long run.

now if these are the facts.we don't have much of a future unless we have a option 4.

so what should option 4 be ? 

That's quite an improvement, to put it mildly, JP.  :)

Here's my unloved attempt at M4WM; he definitely needs some work here and there...

WandW, that actually looks better than my attempts. Lol.

I found that trying to transfer a weightmap "up" from a low res to a high res mesh creates so many errors that you just as well can start from scratch.

So I happily gave up on M4WM proper and relegated all athletic duties I ever need in the future to M4LOD-WM. 

:-)

"You certainly seem to relish the role.I know, you're just telling us your "truth" because you care so much.  Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"

Well, I admit I might not really care about you, but I certainly care about Poser.

LOL, sure you do......and if I believe that, you've got a bridge to sell me too.  ROFL

so what should option 4 be ? 

Whatever SM determines it to be.  Do you REALLY think this bunch of miscreants have any influence on what SM does with Poser?  If so, you're dreaming.  

Glitterati3D** **Whatever SM determines it to be.  Do you REALLY think this bunch of miscreants have any influence on what SM does with Poser?  If so, you're dreaming.

 

**Glitterati3D **the facts have all ready eliminated poser as a viable solution.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

RorrKonn 

Well ,well  ,well we have yelled,scream and shouted at the devil but have we gotten any where ?

We all have are own opinions about poserverse .some agree others disagree. 

there are still basic facts that need no opinions 

poser and daz studio are dependent on others to make and support characters for the software. 
so if you use poser or daz studio your at the mercy of others. 

posers dilemma is daz was the only ones that made and supported characters for poser.daz left poser. 
it's a fact that no one wants to get over that is causing 99.9% of the arguing .

since daz left poser ,what options do we have ? 

1 HiveWire3D has dawn. kinda slow about making progress.
2 Stock poser characters. not the best rigs n limited support n resources.
3 WMV4 it's like pinning for a girl that done left you. that's not going to get you any where in the long run.

now if these are the facts.we don't have much of a future unless we have a option 4.

so what should option 4 be for a viable solution ? 

Glitterati3D** **Whatever SM determines it to be.  Do you REALLY think this bunch of miscreants have any influence on what SM does with Poser?  If so, you're dreaming.

**Glitterati3D **the facts have all ready eliminated poser as a viable solution.

We knew that the majority of the Poser users wanted a one click solution

I dont agree with you, the force of Poser is the Material room who allow each user to create great procedural shader, but it ask a lot of work. For sure if you use the shaders included in what you buy you'll have a real one click solution, but the results look like, excuse me, a piece of ... .

**Glitterati3D **the facts have all ready eliminated poser as a viable solution.

So, how many times are you going to quote yourself?  Do you think you have some special powers that just declare something as truth that isn't? Oh, yeah, let me delete Poser from my computer because RonrrKonn said I should.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

We knew that the majority of the Poser users wanted a one click solution

I dont agree with you, the force of Poser is the Material room who allow each user to create great procedural shader, but it ask a lot of work. For sure if you use the shaders included in what you buy you'll have a real one click solution, but the results look like, excuse me, a piece of ... .

That may be true for you, but that's the real draw of Poser......the fact that areas of the program allow the users who wish to be so, creativity. For you, it's the material room, for others it's the cloth room, for yet others it's rigging.

And, for others, it allows for Load, Pose, Render.

Out of curiosity, what's with the general dislike for JCM?

I'm no expert with how Poser figures work, but I really like the idea of JCM.  Being able to have morphs adjust depending on the joint rotation is damn powerful stuff, and I can't imagine anything that couldn't be achieved by using it.  Poser even allows us to sequence the actuation of the morphs using a timeline for each joint, and further still, even has an adjustable actuation curve!  I mean wow, that's powerful stuff!

So personally, I don't get the fascination with weight mapping and the general shunning of JCM.  If I were a designer of a program using this stuff and I had the choice, I'd go with JCM every time; the power we have for shaping and controlling stuff using that technology is limitless!

**Glitterati3D **the facts have all ready eliminated poser characters as a viable solution.

So, how many times are you going to quote yourself?  Do you think you have some special powers that just declare something as truth that isn't? Oh, yeah, let me delete Poser from my computer because RonrrKonn said I should.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

and people wonder why I don't make daz poser meshes LMAO.

**Glitterati3D **the facts have all ready eliminated poser characters as a viable solution.

So, how many times are you going to quote yourself?  Do you think you have some special powers that just declare something as truth that isn't? Oh, yeah, let me delete Poser from my computer because RonrrKonn said I should.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

and people wonder why I don't make daz poser meshes LMAO.

Really?  Someone wonders that? 

Out of curiosity, what's with the general dislike for JCM?

I'm no expert with how Poser figures work, but I really like the idea of JCM.  Being able to have morphs adjust depending on the joint rotation is damn powerful stuff, and I can't imagine anything that couldn't be achieved by using it.  Poser even allows us to sequence the actuation of the morphs using a timeline for each joint, and further still, even has an adjustable actuation curve!  I mean wow, that's powerful stuff!

So personally, I don't get the fascination with weight mapping and the general shunning of JCM.  If I were a designer of a program using this stuff and I had the choice, I'd go with JCM every time; the power we have for shaping and controlling stuff using that technology is limitless!

Corresponding JCMs have to be put into conforming clothing, whilst the weightmapping simply goes in with the rig. JCMs have their uses, as weightmapping (at least Poser's weightmapping) only moves vertices in a direction normal to the surface, a restriction JCMs do not have.....

Out of curiosity, what's with the general dislike for JCM?

I'm no expert with how Poser figures work, but I really like the idea of JCM.  Being able to have morphs adjust depending on the joint rotation is damn powerful stuff, and I can't imagine anything that couldn't be achieved by using it.  Poser even allows us to sequence the actuation of the morphs using a timeline for each joint, and further still, even has an adjustable actuation curve!  I mean wow, that's powerful stuff!

So personally, I don't get the fascination with weight mapping and the general shunning of JCM.  If I were a designer of a program using this stuff and I had the choice, I'd go with JCM every time; the power we have for shaping and controlling stuff using that technology is limitless!

Corresponding JCMs have to be put into conforming clothing, whilst the weightmapping simply goes in with the rig. JCMs have their uses, as weightmapping (at least Poser's weightmapping) only moves vertices in a direction normal to the surface, a restriction JCMs do not have.....

Note that corresponding weightmaping also has to be in the clothing. 

Out of curiosity, what's with the general dislike for JCM?

Corresponding JCMs have to be put into conforming clothing, whilst the weightmapping simply goes in with the rig. JCMs have their uses, as weightmapping (at least Poser's weightmapping) only moves vertices in a direction normal to the surface, a restriction JCMs do not have.....

Note that corresponding weightmaping also has to be in the clothing. 

Indeed, but that is transferred when the figure's rig is added to the cloth, at least in Poser...