I'm still hoping nerd, teyon or BB will post another render of human skin and hair.  I'm guessing one with area lites would look good and wouldn't need alotta nodes.

Please folks, lets keep it civil. We want to keep this thread active. We are all here to learn, and voice opinions..yes,..but not to lash out at one another. Play Nice!!

Anyway, back to SuperFly. I would be very happy if there was a way to use the normal Cycle nodes somehow. Maybe via Python, would work for me.

I do understand that this is not what most Poser users would want in the first place, but it would make SuperFly much more versatile.

I wonder whether there is a way to make Cycles automatically detect the shader system used, and automatically adjust / convert what there is?

I.M.O, this would be the most versatile way for all, and the best of both worlds.

-P-

We've asked repeatedly that people keep this thread on topic and to quit with the software bashing, negativity and personal attacks, but for some reason several people just can't seem to follow simple instructions.

I've now cleaned out most of the junk in this thread and will continue cleaning up the rest. Warnings and suspensions have been issued to those who have been told repeatedly.

Keep this thread on topic. If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't say anything. Any snide comments in response to this post will be treated as disruptive. This thread is currently about the Cycles engine in Poser 11, and until someone from Smith Micro gives info about anything else, that is all this thread is about, so keep it on topic.

Have a pleasant day.

"For the moment they're a native format. But I guess if that changes and your customer base leaves, you wont mind, right?

Just checking."

No sir ,I would not "mind" anymore than a merchant who had to put in the work and learn how to develop for Genesis. or any of the aformentioned Maxon C4D Shader "Gurus"
who suddenly had to learn to Make Vray shaders when we got access to Vray years ago

If I wish to stay relevant I will learn to export Character animation Data to whatever the new Standard  becomes as Dictated by the consumer market

It is business 101. 

BTW for the record I am not philosophically opposed to trying ease the transition to newer systems with as much backwards compatibility as possible.

what I find grating is that anyone
would implement a new rendering system that has
known ,existing capabilities
but Cull or cripple some parts of it for the sake of the very legacy feature upon which you are trying to improve...rendering.

Imagine the outrage If Daz had the option of giving users "geografting" and "Autofit" in the genesis figures developmental stage

But ultimately  removed these features  because it was interfering with the ability to use Vicky 4's UV's ...for the sake of "backwards compatibility".

Traditionally when you add new functionality to an existing system
you alter the existing system to accept the new functionality

If you destroy some the the new functionality for the sake of not
upsetting the end users of  the new system.

You Defeat the purpose entirely  IMHO.

This thread is supposed to be about the new render engine in Poser 11. Please keep it on topic and stop derailing into all these other aspects that have not been brought up by Smith-Micro yet, as it just creates a breeding ground for more arguing and hostility.

There is nothing to discuss. Nerd3d vanished, leaving the poor Teyon to not-respond (since he appears not to have been cleared to state even if he is alive or dead) and bagginsbill confirmed that at least currently only the previous FireFly nodes are avalable (therefore critically crippling what you can do with the renderer). Since it is August, people are on vacation so, even in the most optimistic hypothesis, nothing can come before early September.

I'm alive. I have a bit more duties than just posting renders, I'm afraid. :D I will be doing some more this week. For now, here's one I've posted everywhere else weeks ago  but not here...mostly because I just thought it'd be lost in the shuffle. It's a morph I did for Rex last year. The skin texture is my own skin map mixed with Rex's in Photoshop.  Please forgive the eyes...I didn't know how to make a cornea material at the time of the render. Also keep in mind, I'm not much of a texture artist but people wanted to see a Poser character rendered. Here ya go. -T

That looks very nice to me! Are you allowed at this time to talk about the lighting? Was this done with Poser's spotlights or do we have to mess with emitters?

The skin looks fantastic, so does the light, and the material on the shirt.  

I just upgraded to Poser 10 after being out of it for a while.  I decided to downgrade from Poser Pro 2012 because I don't use the advanced, professional features that it provides and it was just more money than I have to spend right now.  I hope that I can get a lot of use out of Poser 10 before I upgrade to 11.

That looks very nice to me! Are you allowed at this time to talk about the lighting? Was this done with Poser's spotlights or do we have to mess with emitters?

Thanks gang. I used three area lights, a backdrop I made in silo, the clothing I made for the character (and obviously the textures I made to go with those) and then of course, the figure itself. That's about it. Area Lights are an awesome addition to Poser and work much better (in my opinion) than regular ambient emitters.

Very cool, Area Lights. I would like to know more. I've taken time to learn DS in order to use Iray, and one of the few things I like are the Photometric Spots and Point lights. Also is it allowed to have a peek at the node setup for the skin?

I think the material room is still WIP so I'm not gonna show that right now. Sorry. If I find that I'm allowed next week, then I will.

Superfly render of a closed interior, lit only by one infinite light through the windows. Outside the room there is just a giant a white box, no environment sphere - some light is bouncing off that box. I have never come close to something like this in Firefly - impossible.

Render time was 3 hours 4 minutes.

@bagginsbill:

This! is, what I'd call a teaser ;) Now I'm interessted ;)

Now -that- is impressive! Thanks BB!

It's going to take rerigging of old lighting schemes, but the possibilities this opens up for interior work is wonderful and will be worth the work.

Can Superfly render to layers for postworking?

Agree with above BB,looks great and I'm well impressed there

Will Poser supports too IES lights if yes then IES will be big addition to that 

And finally we can do proper Interior renders which will bit better 

Thanks,Jura

 I have never come close to something like this in Firefly - impossible.

Render time was 3 hours 4 minutes.

I think it's really great that it's finally possible to do stuff that firefly simply can't do, and to easily do stuff that firefly could only fake by means of very complex node setups.
But... 3 hours is... glacially slow for that render.

Here's a rough facsimile of that scene rendered with Twilight, a plugin for sketchup - I stopped it after 11 minutes.

hmmm... really interesting renders put up recently...  definitely the beginning of that anticipating-christmas-as-a-kid type feelings going on for me.

thanks for posting more previews!

And here's what MOD801's not-particularly-speedy preview render did on that scene, I stopped it after 35 minutes. I' be interested to see what blender's cycles makes of it, if somebody wants to try this scene in blender-Cycles, drop me a PM and I'll send you the obj.

Comparing render times at this stage is kind of like guessing what's in a gift by the sound it makes when you shake it.  You could do it but when it's time to open the gift, you'll find you were wrong.

BB posted the time that render took, so I assumed the information was relevant. Hope I'm wrong, 'cause it sounds like socks.

If you look at BB's render, then look at obm's, there are obvious differences.

Both of them are rather grainy compared to BB's as well. (all three of them have grain thou, but that was not BB's point)

Short render times are great, but comparing short times with grainy results to one that is not as grainy is sort of pointless in my opinion.  

I am fairly sure BB was referring to IDL issues that prevent Firefly from doing a render like that.

Out of the three rendered rooms BB's light on the floor look the most realistic to me. Having said that, all of them are still grainy and if experienced users can't avoid that then I'm certainly doomed.

 Having said that, all of them are still grainy and if experienced users can't avoid that then I'm certainly doomed.

You're not doomed at all, with a progressive renderer just giving it more time to cook should get rid of the grain. I just stopped mine when I thought the grain looked about the same as BB's. Compare the ceilings or the white ball on the left - they're not that far off - not so far that a comparison cannot be drawn, as shvrdvid is implying.

Not overly excited just yet...but I'll keep watching :).

Laurie

Isn't the grain remedied by samples settings? And also I imagine users that are going for the photochemical emulsion look won't have to post grain anymore.

looks like new computer time for me...and probably a bunch of people. My little i5 struggles with the stuff I'm currently doing on it.

This thread is supposed to be about the new render engine in Poser 11. Please keep it on topic and stop derailing into all these other aspects that have not been brought up by Smith-Micro yet, as it just creates a breeding ground for more arguing and hostility.

There is nothing to discuss. Nerd3d vanished, leaving the poor Teyon to not-respond (since he appears not to have been cleared to state even if he is alive or dead) and bagginsbill confirmed that at least currently only the previous FireFly nodes are avalable (therefore critically crippling what you can do with the renderer). Since it is August, people are on vacation so, even in the most optimistic hypothesis, nothing can come before early September.

I'm alive. I have a bit more duties than just posting renders, I'm afraid. :D I will be doing some more this week. For now, here's one I've posted everywhere else weeks ago  but not here...mostly because I just thought it'd be lost in the shuffle. It's a morph I did for Rex last year. The skin texture is my own skin map mixed with Rex's in Photoshop.  Please forgive the eyes...I didn't know how to make a cornea material at the time of the render. Also keep in mind, I'm not much of a texture artist but people wanted to see a Poser character rendered. Here ya go. -T

Look amazing

Well  after reading all 18 pages of this thread I am exhausted. So much anger in this world. Sigh...

Hey Ted, good to see you in here. Very refreshing to hear words from a person who actually knows what they are talking about.

What I would love to see in this version is...

Lights that are object specific.Only effect the object you pick in a drop down, or however it could be implemented.

Is that possible with the software as it is at this stage?

Would be nice to have a "plane light" like in Vue that is like a photographers reflector so to speak.

That is one thing I loved about doing renders in Vue. Very realistic.

Even had features to make the light a fog effect with a click of the mouse.

Would be very cool.

Also would be vice to be able to save a light as part of a prop.

Here is a render done in Vue that shows what I would love to see in Poser.

Keep in mind that that there are atmospheric features in Vue to add the fog effect.

By the way it was everything I had to not list all the things I would like to see in this iteration.

Tom

thx fr skin render, teyon.  seems to confirm that area lites emit specular.

That interior render is exactly the kind of thing I want to see ... as are the skin renders. The more samples we see them ore we understand the capacity of the software. This is fantastic so far. All I can say is WOW. :)

Hi,
I've been away for awhile so I am a bit behind on things.
First off I am an avid Poser user and please, this is not meant to start any flames.
As a vendor I will tell you that the incompatibility of Poser with Daz models has become a major problem.
My sales in Poser products has fallen DRASTICALLY, especially since the release of Genesis3.
My Poser clients are telling me they have had to learn DS and are asking for products that are DS compatible rather than Poser compatible.
They are abandoning Poser and making investments in DS products. Just take a look at the marketplace here.
It's one thing to develop new Poser models but the market is Daz models and there are a lot of people who like to render in Poser.
I have true concerns based on my sales stats and client feedback that if the new Poser is not compatible with DS models people will not upgrade.
New Poser models will cost the customers more money on top of the price of purchasing Poser or Poser upgrades and in the past vendor sales for Poser model
products has been very low.
As an avid Poser user, I do hope you will take this into your consideration.
Cheerio

lululee: As valid as your concerns may be ... This is not the thread for this, as it can be seen as a negative for the purpose of the thread. Pleaase take this issue up in a more appropriate venue. thank you. We value all comments and views, but please make them appropriate to the thread.
Boni

What I find particularly noticeable about BB's Superfly render is the lack of shadow artifacts where the ceiling meets the wall above the windows. Unless SM has finally solved that problem with Firefly, they may have finally provided a solution with Superfly.

@4219957

There is no appropriate forum or did I miss it? Really that's part of the issue. It's been quite clearly demonstrated that the only mindset allowed is akin to the emperor's new clothes. Like them or leave. Vendor support is one of the main issues facing Poser, and in a way you just said directly to a vendor your opinion doesn't matter and that it's not relevant to a conversation about the next version of Poser.

I honestly can't see a great difference between DreamlandModels post above or Lululee. They're both feature requests. Oh, one difference "Daz3D" was mentioned...

Nyghtfall said: "What I find particularly noticeable about BB's Superfly render is the lack of shadow artifacts where the ceiling meets the wall above the windows. Unless SM has finally solved that problem with Firefly, they may have finally provided a solution with Superfly."

What you're seeing here are unbiased renders - a totally different animal. The shadow artifacts you're referring to are a common problem with interior scenes rendered with a biased renderer (like Firefly). They are a result of the way biased rendering works: to save time it takes a predetermined number of samples from the scene, measures the light at those points, and interpolates the light in between them, essentially guessing. Usually the guessing works well enough and the time savings are huge, but in tricky areas that interpolation process can yield screwy results which show up as shadowy and over-bright splotches in the render. More samples closer together can obviously help, but that takes longer, so the better biased renderers try to find more efficient ways of taking the samples and more sophisticated ways of processing them.

With an unbiased renderer (like Cycles) it doesn't interpolate anything, it just keeps firing rays into the scene until, if given enough time, it has sampled every single pixel. If you stop it before the process is complete (either by hitting the stop button or by limiting the total number of rays it should fire) you get a grainy image - the grain is the pixels it hasn't had a chance to do properly yet.

The trade-off is time. Guessing is quicker than firing lots of rays. By way of example, the unbiased MODO render I posted above took 35 minutes and it was still grainy (that was using modo's preview render set to full size). The same scene using modo's normal biased renderer took just 50-something seconds, but it has some splotchies around the edge of the ceiling. It typically takes quite a bit of skill, experience, guile, cunning and trickery to get a biased renderer to deliver the result you want (to help it guess correctly, if you like), whereas an unbiased renderer doesn't get involved in all that, it just needs fast hardware and time.

If you have requests for features, such as DAZ compatibility or plane lights, the appropriate thread to post in would be Feature Requests for Poser located https://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2874130

I am happy to see more renders, especially people. Rex looks really good in that render, Teyon. Also what I'd like to see are renders of Pixar type toons. Is hopeful there may be some new toon style shaders in the next Poser.

I had a new picture to post, but the forum site changes here have infuriated me.

I've been participating in the secret Ambassador's den at RDNA - I'm going to just move over there now and do my public posting, even though adding images to RDNA threads is painful. It's not as painful as here, and they show up every time, even if they're just text links. (Yes the RDNA programmer has placed a few sticks up my ass as well. But here, I got an entire forest up there.)

Go here for any further info from me.
[http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?99944-Poser-11-Sneak-Peek&p=910551#post910551] (http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?99944-Poser-11-Sneak-Peek&p=910551#post910551)

OMG I can't figure out how to insert a link now. WTF???? The editor claims this is "Markdown", which I'm familiar with, but it isn't working.

Seriously --- bye Felicia.

http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?99944-Poser-11-Sneak-Peek&p=910551#post910551

greater than •Link• less than - seems to work for links

Bold Test

WHY they eliminated the editor is beyond me...

Laurie

will have to go to rdna for now. check in once a week to see if BW fixed it.

BB's rdna thread link

Hi guys. The site is new and yes, there are a few bugs to be squished. Please be assured the issues that are happening will be fixed. Growing pains are never easy, but we will get there! Please be patient, we are doing all we can to make things better for you!

thanks digitell. you are good mod, thoughtful and I can see you care about us. don't worry, we'll be back!

Hi Miss Nancy..Thank you so much for your post! I am not a Mod..I am only just a Coordinator..and a most importantly a member just like you! I too am having problems with the gallery and logging into the forums. I have been in touch with my "higher ups" and they assured me that things are being worked on and they hear us. They are not purposely trying to frustrate folks but trying to make things easier and better. Things dont always go as smoothly as you hope..Thank you again and we will get there! :)
Please have a great evening! :)

bump*

I wish SM would give some hint about Poser 12's current status. I hope we at least hear something by SIGGRAPH.