How do you refit conforming clothing from one figure to another? I'm thinking in particular of the more obscure figures that aren't supported by Wardrobe Wizard or CrossDresser. Actually I've never used either of those programs, but my understanding is that they are not universal converters, you have to have a specific license for both figures involved (and therefore those licenses have to exist.)

So, what is the procedure for just doing it myself? I know how to refit smart props, but the conforming stuff is different because everything messes up when I conform it.

Well, If you want to make it "by hand" the only way I see is use a 3d application. you can use wings3d for example, but it would be a hard work if the figures are very different.

Note, that you have to change the body part too.

If you have Poser Pro 2014 there is a Fitting Room...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtUtltmXFCk

Wardrobe Wizard comes with support for all figures included with Poser.  Crossdresser is free and you only need to purchase a license for the figure you wish to covert clothing to.

If you are familiar with modeling apps, you can refit clothing by taking the obj into a modeller.  However, if you are using conformers, you will need to rig the refit clothing item to the new figure. 

Poser also has the cloth room so you can bypass the whole refit process.  The cloth room is not without issues. 

There is no one solution.

I have Poser 10. The figures I have in mind are some of the more obscure fantasy characters, not the people that come with Poser, and I have checked and there is no license for them in either program. I've never modeled anything, but I've used Blacksmith 3D to make morphs. The basic idea is, I have so many conforming clothes that I might as well get more use out of the ones I have by sharing them with figures who need more clothes. I don't want to have to remap them or anything; I want them to still be able to use the same textures and material poses.

Suppose I take the OBJ into Blacksmith and fit it to the figure. How do I make it so that it will conform properly in Poser, while still otherwise behaving in the same way (as far as taking textures etc.)?

And the last time I tried to clothify a piece of conforming clothing, it took over 48 hours, so that's not really an option.

there is this app in the market place   http://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/morphing-clothes/64629/     it isn't perfect, but i have had some success with it.

as to dynamic, it depends on the original model as to how well it will clothify. some conforming clothing and models clothify easily, some not so much. if it has seams after you make it into an object, you need to make the seams a part of the soft decorated group, and make sure when you export it to an obj, you uncheck everything, except weld body part seams if its applicable.

I would think that Morphing Clothes would be useful for getting the right fit before conforming, but if it is being refitted to a very different figure, the names of the body parts would have to be changed in the clothing (which I don't actually know how to do.) Also, the clothing seems to respond to not only the anatomy but also the height of the figure. What is your experience with it?

For example, a while back I was refitting stuff to a very large centaur figure, and even after moving and rescaling a shirt to fit him, when I told it to conform it would jump back down and cling to his legs. The only way to do it (that I could figure out at the time) was to convert it to a prop and save it as a smart prop. But that doesn't work very well with an item that needs to bend with the figure (or, does anyone know a way to make it work?)

I've used Morphing Clothes to transfer stuff between M4 and V4, but they have the exact same body parts, can take the same morphs, and can basically be morphed into each other. Have you had success with doing something more complicated?

Refitting clothes can be done entirely with Poser, but it is not a cut and dry operation by any means.

There are a lot of variables in the clothes that will alter the way it has to be done, just as the differences between the characters default shapes.

As far as extreme differences go, this is a fairly good example of what can be done just with Poser.

The original outfit is on the right, it is Ruby for Star. The one on the left is a refit to V3. It is not perfect. I did it fairly quickly to figure out a better way to do it, I am still working on the dress. There are a lot of layers to deal with in the dress, and tons of details to retain...

I used scaling, the Morph Brush, exporting it and importing it back in to weld it, then the Fitting Room (You could use the Setup Room in 10 to do the same thing) to insert the rigging and regroup it. The morph transfers needed touched up as well, due to the numbers of layers and the distance they are from the character.

Any piece of clothing can be converted to another character in Poser, but how long it will take and the route you take to get there differs on just about every conversion if there is a lot of detail to retain.

I would think that Morphing Clothes would be useful for getting the right fit before conforming, but if it is being refitted to a very different figure, the names of the body parts would have to be changed in the clothing (which I don't actually know how to do.) Also, the clothing seems to respond to not only the anatomy but also the height of the figure. What is your experience with it?

Morphing Clothes is primarily for transferring morphs from a particular figure to conforming clothes made for that particular figure. It's likely going to balk with anything that has differently named groups in it.

As far as your OP goes, there are a number of ways to convert clothing from one figure to another. The best way is to use an external 3D application, import the 3D object, make the necessary physical and group changes, then import that object back into Poser and then transfer the desired figure's rigging (skeleton) to the new clothing object. Easier said than done, I know. But, it's not particularly difficult, once you get used to it.

However, from within Poser, regardless of version (Well, anything released in the last few years.), you can transfer any rigging from anything to... just about anything. The process is fairly simple. (I only have PP2012, so there are more advanced tools for you to use in later versions.)

1. Bring the item you want to convert into the Preview Pane (Room, whatever you want to call it.. just load it up, k? :) )

2. You're going to convert this item to a prop. For myself, I export the figure's geometry as a wavefront.obj file, then reimport it. You can, however, choose to use this python script: http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=figure2prop or you can go into the Cloth Room, choose the Grouping tool, then convert the figure to a prop from there. (Instructions in the Poser manual.)

3. Next, get your "prop" in the scene and load up the figure you're converting for. Make sure the figure is centered in the scene (The Figure x,y,z values are zero AND check that the figure's Hip group, or whatever main group it uses as a central rotation point, also have x,y,z values of zero. If you have to change these values in the Hip group, don't forget to recheck the x,y,z values of the Figure, as a whole, to be sure they didn't get out of whack.) You must also make sure that the figure's joint rotations are all set to zero, as well. The easiest way to do that is to go to the Window drop-down, choose "Joint Editor", select the Hip group (or central roation group/main parent) and then click the "Zero Rotations" button in the Joint Editor Menu. Once completed, you will have the figure that you're converting the clothing to centered and with all its joint-rotations at zero. This is called the "zero pose" for that figure.

(Note: If the figure comes with a Dev Version (Developer Version) using that is preferable, since it will be stripped of troublesome morph/rotation settings. Also - If the figure loads in a "posed" state, with some joint rotations at non-zero values, that shouldn't matter if the CR2 is constructed properly. But, to be safe, once you have correctly gotten the figure into a zero pose, you may wish to save this as a separate .cr2, so you can quickly call up this figure as needed and so you're sure there aren't any issues when you move into the Setup Room, later on.)

1. Using translate and scale for the Figure, move the clothing prop into an appropriate position on the figure. Use the Morph Brush and Magnets to alter the clothing so that it fits better. If the clothing is going to be too different than the figure you're converting to or if it's very complex, itself, this may not yield good results. But, if you don't have any other tools, and you want to convert this clothing, these are your options. Sorry. :( (I use a completely different process than this, so I may not be aware of any little bugs with using Magnets and keeping them on the clothing item when using the Setup room. If you encounter any issues with crashing or the like, once you enter the Setup Room, then save your alterations to the clothing prop as one Morph. That should keep the geometry in place when moving into the Setup Room. If it does not, which I don't know why it wouldn't, then simply export the morphed clothing item as a new object, with no boxes checked, then import it with no boxes checked and use it in the Setup Room, instead.)

2. Once you have the item fitted well, you can move to the Setup Room. The item does not have to fit perfectly, but it should be centered on the figure appropriately and the portions of the clothing that correspond to the figures main groups must be relatively accurate to get a "decent" fit. To move to the Setup Room, select your clothing item, then click on the Setup Room tab. It may take a minute before it loads.

3. Now, we're going to transfer the rigging of the figure you're conforming this cloth for to the cloth, itself. This process will also regroup the figure in PP2012, so I know it will also do that in 2014. (Though, you have the fitting room and such, but I know nothing about it at all.) Be sure your cloth item is in the Setup Room, then open up your Figure Library panel. Scroll down to the figure that you want to conform this cloth with. If you have a Dev Version of its CR2, use that. If not, use the zero pose CR2 you created or its original CR2, if you wish. You may have to experiment in choosing which.)  Double-click/Load the CR2 for the figure. This will transfer the figure's bones to the clothing item and setup default groups for it at the same time. (A BIG advantage over previous versions of Poser, btw.)

4. Making sure to select ONLY the "Move" tooltip, the one that looks like a "plus sign" (+), select the bones that you do not need and that do not have groups. Delete these, if you wish. DO NOT delete any bones that have a group. Poser will warn you upon exiting the Setup Room if you have done this.

5. Once you've transferred the rigging to the cloth and have deleted the bones you don't need, exit back to the Preview Pane. (Posing room, whatever..) SAVE the new clothing item, now. That way, you won't have to go through all that again, hopefully.

6. Next, load up the figure, if it's not already in the Preview Pane, and then conform the new clothing item to it. If it zips right to the figure and appears that it at least has the figure's center appropriately aligned, then your "worries" are mostly over. If it wonks off the screen, hovers above the figures head, or does anything weird, spatially, then the joint center for the main parent bone are likely off and you'll probably want to start again, making sure the figure you're creating the clothing for is zero'd properly and you have a clean CR2.

7. Now, the fun begins. Even if your cloth looks "shredded up" when conformed, as long as its center appears consistent with the figure, then the rest of it is probably due to joint zones being out of whack. Click on the "Window" tab, load up the "Joint Editor" and get to work. Start off by posing one of the figure's limb joints that corresponds to a group in the clothing. Just one. (And, throughout this process, just work on one side of the figure, as long as it's symmetrical.) Let's say you select the figure's Right Thigh bone. Rotate that bone along once axis and see how well the clothing moves. It's likely you'll have to increase the morph zones for that joint, move them a bit, or fine-tune other joint settings for that joint, with the Joint Editor open to reveal them. You won't likely actually have to change any "numbers" in the Joint Editor. You'll just use your selection tool and select the different joint zones and parameters that are now unhidden, since the Joint Tool window is now active.

Don't worry, an excellent tute by PhilC is below. Watch this to learn how to manipulate joint parameters and to fine tune your joints.

This is a series of tutorials on how to create new rigging from within Poser, from scratch. Watch these so you can know what adjustments you may need to make to your existing rigging and how to make those adjustments for the best results - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8jxSOL_MAM

Note: This process will likely destroy any "morphs" that are in the clothing. That's because it resets the Groups and I don't believe, at least for versions that I have, Poser will retain those morphs using this process. Later versions of Poser may, I don't know. So, if there are any movement morphs you'd really like to keep, this process won't preserve them. It will also not preserve any "special bones", like dresshandles, in the figure. You will have to regroup those yourself and add the bones for them, manually. That's not difficult, once you get used to it.

PS - Yes, all this is drawn out and will not yield high-quality results without a heck of a lot of effort on your part. But, it will work if all you have is Poser to use and there aren't any strange issues with your figure and the clothing is actually made for something of its general phenotype. (Horses will probably not be able to easy be made to wear a bra, for instance, using this process.)  I don't use this process at all, but I have transferred some rigs with it in various Poser versions. You should also find descriptions on how to transfer rigging and how to use the Setup Room in your Poser Manual.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for! Off to try it now.

I haven't actually tried this experiment yet, I was working on morphing the outfit into place and I set it aside and got distracted. I was looking at PhilC's OBJ2CR2 utility, and I was wondering how useful it is for this sort of thing? Does it save a lot of work, or only a little?

PhilC's Obj2Cr2 is designed to take an obj file and create a cr2 for it. This add on does not create weight mapped rigs. The biggest problem you will have is that you will have to take the clothing obj into your modeller and fit it to your figure. You don't have to group it or do anything other than fit it to the figure. Save it and import it into Poser. Open up Obj2Cr2. You will have to determine the best template to use to for the cr2. If the figure you are using is supported by the plug in (even if it is heavily morphed, use that template. If not, go for the closest one. Follow the steps for the plug in. It can take some time for the cr2 to be created so be prepared to wait a bit.

What figures do you want to use? PhilC's WW add on support is pretty extensive. Between versions 1 and 2 (I purchased them long before SMS added them), there are few figures I don't have support for. Check through the various WW2 figure support packs (the large ones with multi-figure support), you might find the figure you are looking for in one of those. I also have a couple of figures that Phil included WW support for the figure (the Troglodytes were one) with the package.

It is for Pinin's Satyress, and I already looked, there isn't one for either Wardrobe Wizard or Crossdresser. I have several other figures that I never see anything for, but that I kind of like, and none of them have much to wear. I should get it, then? It's worth the $25? I can only budget so much for Poser stuff.

I want Phil to make an expansion pack for all the fantasy creatures. All the satyrs and centaurs and elves. I would definitely buy that.

AFAIK, all of Phil's add on support for WW are for humanoid bidpeds. It is my understanding that Posette is the base or the original figure used in both WW and Puppetmaster. The problem with satyr's are the leg shapes. While the satyr's are biped, the goat legs cause problems. The shapes are just too complicated. Doesn't matter if it's an original figure, the V3 satyr or the V4 creature morphs and legs. It's either take the pants into the modeller and fix it by hand or simply hide the parts that are poking through as much as possible while using the morph brush to fix as much as you can.

Elves depend on the base figure they are morphed from. I have several elves that are heavily morphed P4, D3, SP3 and Gen 4 figures. WW can convert and add morphs. I do have to use the morph brush on occasion to do some final clean up on the conversion but that's minimal.

You might want to look at Marcus Dunn's Clothes Convertor over at DAZ. This is the only conversion app I know of that allows you to make conversions for original figures. This is a windows only app. You also might want to submit a ticket to DAZ CS asking if the app works in Win7 or higher. I haven't used it since vesion 2 and I know that the same vendor's Pegasus modeller had issues with Win 8 at one point. This app like all convertors has it's good points and bad points. The good points for you is that it doesn't require any other add on products and you can do conversions for original figures. It does have a bit of learning curve and conversions vary.

DAZ's PA sale is coming up next month so at some point, you should be able to pick it up for half off.

If you really need the .dat files for WW and are willing to pay for them, site or email him. The last time I discussed it with him the cost was $100 for the .dat files for each figure.

So if I learned how to fit clothes to satyrs and then learned how to automate the process and sold it as a "Clothes for Satyrs" utility, it would be the only one on the market.

If you can create your own app from the ground up. When I say fitting, I'm either using Pro 2014's Fitting Room or taking the figure and clothing into the modeller and using the modeller's tools to alter the mesh shape of the clothing to make it fit. The modeller is doing the work. It isn't a separate app. Once the clothing is altered to fit, I take it back into Poser and rig it to fit the figure it is for. I generally use the figures rig as a donor and do the clean up in the joint editor.

One thing to be aware of. The coversions are for personal use only. I don't know a whole heck of lot about coding and I was just beginning to get the hang of Poser's Python coding when they went through two changes in two upgrades so I'm pretty much still doing very limited, uncompiled scripts.

If you were able to come up with a utility, it would be the only one but I don't know how much demand there would be. It don't do much with DS right now but it's platform already has autofit and believe the active joint centers and other coding make it so the clothing will fit even the Genesis monsters such as RawArt creates.

As for Poser, I'm not sure there is much demand for it. RawArt did one for V4 way back in the early days of the figure's release and then DAZ did the Creature Creator morphs and add on.

I was joking about the Clothes for Satyrs utility, but there is something I was wondering about: When I try to conform clothing between figures with the same mesh, for example M4/V4/K4, what is it that keeps it from conforming correctly, even after scaling it? What I mean is, it seems like it has memorized the height of the figure it was intended for, and I was wondering what is going on technically. I'm asking because I'm trying to understand the inner dynamics of it. It wouldn't be a function of grouping because they are grouped the same.

Generation 4 has 3 base meshes. V4, M4, K4. Yes, the other two are created from V4's mesh but by the time they are finished, the base mesh has changed. The three also do have the same rigging. They have the same groups but the joints and fall off zones are different. Conforming clothing is rigged for the figure it is designed for. DAZ used to create the legacy figures when they released a new generation. The V4 to V3 figure was the last. M4 and K4 do not have them. The V4 to V3 allowed you to use V4's head morphs and textures while using V3's conforming clothing out of the box.

Creating another figure/gender out of a figures mesh goes back at least to Generation 1. It may go back further but I don't know for sure. The original Stephanie was created from M1's mesh. It was mapped with M1's UV's. You could apply M1/2's textures to the figure out of the box but you ran into distortion because of the breasts. Basically Stephanie's body was morphed and rigged so it could use V1/2's clothing and poses while using M1/2's UV maps.

Except for the 3 base meshes in Gen 4, all the other figures (A4, S4, Freak, Hiro) are morphs for V4 or M4.

If you really want to get into the guts of Poser rigging (especially legacy rigging), find a copy of "The Secrets of Figure Creation" by BL Render. BL Render is also known as Bloodsong. He Wee Beasties are still available over at DAZ and her site 3D Menagerie I believe is still up.

there are a lot of different methods of converting clothing. The utilities are great (when they work) and the poser fitting room does help a great deal, especially with weightmapped figures which can be troublesome.

When converting clothing your have three things that need to be matched to the new figure. Shape, rigging and grouping.

I usually start by adjusting shape in poser or in a 3d modeler. The methods have their different strengths. A good place to start is by loading the clothing in , NOT conformed, and adjusting scale and position to match up with your destination figure. This rough shape can be exported and adjusted, or worked on with morphs and magnets right in poser and run through the fitting room. If you don't have Poser 10, use magnets and morphs and then export as an obj to do the rest manually.

At this point the clothing is pretty much just like any new clothing mesh that needs to be grouped and rigged using whatever method you prefer

the question on v4/m4/k4 scaling. Its down to the rigging, the bones are every so slightly different between the three figures, even after scaling, so they don't match up exactly the same when conformed. So after you scale your outfit, export the obj, then import the obj and re-rig fresh in the Setup room with your destination figures bones. That ought to sort out any issues (well except the boobs/no boobs issue .. use the morph brush for that)

For that matter there is an error on the m4 mesh on the arms, one of the scaling smoo parameters is on backwards, which is why the freak 4 and other scaling morphs go bang in poser. I haven't seen the same issue on k4 and v4, so I think the rig is definitely different. There is an issue across all three on the neck/head scaling zone as well, which is why no headsize, or neck length dials. (and why the k4 toddler morph goes bang in poser)

And of course for the brave, you can convert any mesh into dynamic clothing to use as is, or as another conversion method. You can scale, use dynamic cloth drape, then export the clothing and proceed to make it a conformer like usual.

Hrm. Maybe I should start a series of 'kitbashing' threads lol

Lyrra

Lyrra

You should.

My first experiment with that method was basically successful, but of course it is a very simple outfit and hard to mess up much. I'd been putting it off because I assumed it would be a lot harder than it turned out to be, but I think I will probably use that method a lot, even though I now have the fitting room. I like the amount of control I get. The only thing is, I ended up making 2 different versions of the skirt, one with thighs and one without, and they each have their own set of problems. I made it with the thighs first, and it moves with her legs when she poses but it splits in the middle instead of bending. I remembered reading that some skirts end at the hip, so I tried that, and it stays nicer in the middle, but her thighs pop out of it. So I'm not sure what the best way to handle that is.

My second experiment was a total disaster. It was a pair of jeans for another figure, Angela. They looked pretty before they were posed, and then it all just went very wrong. I'm assuming this has something to do with the joints? I had already tried it in the fitting room and that wasn't going the way I wanted either (the legs melted together in the middle) so I decided to do it by hand.